Atheism

[LoAmmi]

*gets out pitchfork*

Straight to the pitchfork. Steelers fan?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

That's correct. And it's silly and 'in the flesh' to feel superior about any of that stuff.



Any feeling of superiority must be burned away. God desires a broken and contrite spirit, (Psalm 51) not an inflated opinion of oneself because of grace. And of course there is the story of the prodigal son. The Lord would rejoice far more to have you come to Him Jane then someone who has been a devoted Christian for 25 years. The Lord would see you as 'superior' at that moment.

Staying within the parable, what makes you think that I've left my home to begin with?

I know where you are coming from, and I am not accusing you of hubris, but you are STILL affirming that everybody who does not share your beliefs is essentially doomed, and needs to be saved from the spiritual corruption clinging to him or her.

Here's the thing: I am a spiritual person. I have "faith", in the sense of a deep and abiding trust in... well, I think the term "Love" encompasses the concept best, although I'm talking about something more than just the pull of attraction connecting people. My life is fulfilled as well as fulfilling, and I face whatever hardships I have to bear with a sense of serenity. I care deeply for others, for the planet, for Life, and my life's goals revolve more around spreading happiness than around accumulating money or status.

Yet in your eyes, all of that must be self-deception at best, and a downright lie at worst, because "only Christ saves", and I do not believe in the need for a cosmic blood sacrifice to appease the wrath of some personal deity.

 

[gord44]

Yet in your eyes, all of that must be self-deception at best, and a downright lie at worst, because "only Christ saves", and I do not believe in the need for a cosmic blood sacrifice to appease the wrath of some personal deity.

I apologize in insinuating anything. It was not my intent. Nor is it my position to judge anyone's spiritual position. I do not think you are deceived. It would be extremely hypocritical of me to think that as I am a spiritual seeker myself and have travelled many paths. So to judge anyone else's journey I can not do. You must follow your path as I followed mine.

Peace

 

[gord44]

Straight to the pitchfork. Steelers fan?

No. The Lions sadly....

 

[light upon light]

So to shift gears again I want to address something I hear quite frequently: "I want you to become a Christian because I care about your immortal soul".

Barring the fact that I'm even sure what having a soul even entails, I find this phrase to be a little contrived or patronizing. The average guy on the street telling me that he cares about my soul doesn't do much after he follows it up with 'well your whole life is wrong and you're wrong therefore bad and do this or be condemned'. On one hand I can see that the fear of hell is alive in many of these types of preacher's eyes but on the other hand there has to be a better way to approach this; preferably one that doesn't require talking down to me.

Does anyone get the feeling that when most people share their religion with you its because they feel superior (even if they don't mean to) and converting you is just a notch on your belt? That's the impression I always got with people I knew, but I come from a young crowd that doesn't really know their way entirely.

Still adults do it all the time; "Live this lifestyle because its the best and you're evil!"

Thoughts?

Pretty much right on.

That's not a very elevated level of consciousness to operate from, but that's where a lot of people are at.

On the other hand, for many people in that place they have had a life-changing experience that transformed them, and they want to share it with you.

And sometimes it's difficult for people to separate the beautiful things from their spiritual experiences from certain less-than-beautiful dogmas they associate with them.

 

[light upon light]

Here's the thing: I am a spiritual person. I have "faith", in the sense of a deep and abiding trust in... well, I think the term "Love" encompasses the concept best, although I'm talking about something more than just the pull of attraction connecting people. My life is fulfilled as well as fulfilling, and I face whatever hardships I have to bear with a sense of serenity. I care deeply for others, for the planet, for Life, and my life's goals revolve more around spreading happiness than around accumulating money or status.

Yet in your eyes, all of that must be self-deception at best, and a downright lie at worst, because "only Christ saves", and I do not believe in the need for a cosmic blood sacrifice to appease the wrath of some personal deity.

I think Christians have (for the most part) missed the heart of what Jesus actually taught.

It wasn't membership in a magic club that delivers heaven when you die.

It's an invitation to living in a state of love right here right now on the earth - which is also relevant to your state of love after the body dies.

But the core of the message is about seeing everything and everyone in life as a manifestation of Divine Love, and to treat people that way. Jesus called that state of loving-ness spiritual life, salvation, the Kingdom of God and heaven.

Most Christians have failed to understand that, and instead interpreted Christ as some kind of talismanic magic spell that gets Christians into heaven and those without the proper conceptual beliefs into hell after death.

 

[Zoness]

Blasphemy! There is only one sport that carries the name of football truly....and that's the one where they wear helmets.....

Haha well I like American Football too.

No. The Lions sadly....

I'm a *cough*Packers fan*cough*

fight me!!

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I've never cared for sports at all. Least of all the "watching other people doing sports"-kind. To me, it's just a lot of people running after a ball, or driving cars in a circle, or... you get the picture.

 

[Supreme]

I think Christians have (for the most part) missed the heart of what Jesus actually taught.

It wasn't membership in a magic club that delivers heaven when you die.

It's an invitation to living in a state of love right here right now on the earth - which is also relevant to your state of love after the body dies.

But the core of the message is about seeing everything and everyone in life as a manifestation of Divine Love, and to treat people that way. Jesus called that state of loving-ness spiritual life, salvation, the Kingdom of God and heaven.

Most Christians have failed to understand that, and instead interpreted Christ as some kind of talismanic magic spell that gets Christians into heaven and those without the proper conceptual beliefs into hell after death.

Why can't it be both? I believe that Christ saves, but His teachings on love are also to be followed here on Earth. You're creating a false dichotomy.

 

[MehGuy]

I've never cared for sports at all. Least of all the "watching other people doing sports"-kind. To me, it's just a lot of people running after a ball, or driving cars in a circle, or... you get the picture.

Same.

Of course I was looked at as less masculine because of this fact growing up. But I'd always respond.. if they had gladiator games on TV I'd watch that. Can't get more manly than a fight to the death! Usually the person would be like.. you're disgusting.. then they'd walk away, lol.

 

[seashale76]

Same.

Of course I was looked at as less masculine because of this fact growing up.

My husband feels your pain regarding American football and basketball. Since a lot of his friends are into fantasy football, he feels like they think he's weird for not being interested. He actually likes to watch football/soccer sometimes. Not enough to be a real fan though.

I'm not into spectator sports much myself. Though I don't mind watching football, soccer, hockey, and baseball sometimes.

 

[light upon light]

Why can't it be both? I believe that Christ saves, but His teachings on love are also to be followed here on Earth. You're creating a false dichotomy.

I absolutely believe that Christ saves as well.

He saves us from self-centeredness, greed, preoccupation with our material desires, and a life of distraction from our purpose.

Anyone who lives from love, service, kindness and compassion is indeed saved, both before and after the death of their physical body.

 

[light upon light]

I've never cared for sports at all. Least of all the "watching other people doing sports"-kind. To me, it's just a lot of people running after a ball, or driving cars in a circle, or... you get the picture.

Spectator sports hook into the whole "tribalism" memeplex, same as a focus on membership in a particular religion, political party, race etc. does. If kept in perspective it doesn't have to be negative (although it certainly can be!)

Participating in sports hooks into our competitive desire to win (and sometimes to make others lose). It's also good really good exercise and a lot more fun than jogging. Sadly I had to put aside my sports and stick to jogging, hiking and yardwork for exercise as my own competitive side was too dominant and uncontrolled and it came time to bring that chapter of my life to a close.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I haven't got a competitive bone in my body, and I've never quite understood that drive. To me, it makes much more sense to cooperate than to pit oneself against others to see who's "best".

 

[light upon light]

I haven't got a competitive bone in my body, and I've never quite understood that drive. To me, it makes much more sense to cooperate than to pit oneself against others to see who's "best".

Some of us have to learn that the hard way.



I was bullied a lot in elementary and middle school. Then I became tall and strong and that came to an end. I think the competitive drive is part of the evolutionary history of human beings.

 

[gord44]

I just liked playing sports. It's like playing a game. I was never really overly competitive. Most sports are fairly friendly with handshakes and hugs after the game/match.

 

[light upon light]

I just liked playing sports. It's like playing a game. I was never really overly competitive. Most sports are fairly friendly with handshakes and hugs after the game/match.

Well you're a nicer person than I am. I've worked a lot on that and haven't come nearly as far as I would like...

 

[gord44]

Well you're a nicer person than I am. I've worked a lot on that and haven't come nearly as far as I would like...

different personalities is all friend. on my team there is lots of nice chaps who turn into different people on the field.

 

[bhsmte]

I haven't got a competitive bone in my body, and I've never quite understood that drive. To me, it makes much more sense to cooperate than to pit oneself against others to see who's "best".

All depends how you use it Jane. I was an athlete through college and have a competitive trait about me, but I know when to draw the line, some don't.

It's like anything else, religion, atheism, philosophical thinking etc.. Some use those things to make themselves a better person and some take them over the line, with no regard for respecting others.

 

[gord44]

All depends how you use it Jane. I was an athlete through college and have a competitive trait about me, but I know when to draw the line, some don't.

It's like anything else, religion, atheism, philosophical thinking etc.. Some use those things to make themselves a better person and some take them over the line, with no regard for respecting others.

well put!