Asking Christians to boycott evolution threads

[Dr.GH]

An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science

The following statement has been affirmed by over 10,000 members of the Christian clergy.

Within the community of Christian believers there are areas of dispute and disagreement, including the proper way to interpret Holy Scripture. While virtually all Christians take the Bible seriously and hold it to be authoritative in matters of faith and practice, the overwhelming majority do not read the Bible literally, as they would a science textbook. Many of the beloved stories found in the Bible – the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and the ark – convey timeless truths about God, human beings, and the proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation. Religious truth is of a different order from scientific truth. Its purpose is not to convey scientific information but to transform hearts.

We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth.​

​

I question that "IloveYeshua" has the personal or academic skills or stature to claim that these thousands of men and women are not Christian. The "IloveYeshua" person quite obviously is poorly informed about the sciences as well as Christian theology and the Torah.

 

[Hydra009]

This thread does a great job of displaying the creationists' last defense mechanism: if all else fails, ignore what you don't agree with.

 

[Valkhorn]

This thread does a great job of displaying the creationists' last defense mechanism: if all else fails, ignore what you don't agree with.

Isn't that the very first thing they do?

 

[ILoveYeshua]

This thread also does a good job displaying the distasteful character of antichristians.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

This thread also does a good job displaying the distasteful character of antichristians.

Rather than attacking every one else here would you address some of the criticisms levelled at your argument by Christians?

Ghost

 

[Phred]

This thread also does a good job displaying the distasteful character of antichristians.

Judge not...

Talk about distasteful. Standing against ignorance isn't anti-christian. It's anti-ignorance. But hey, if the shoes fit...

 

[Tomk80]

This thread also does a good job displaying the distasteful character of antichristians.

Very few of the people who responded here are set up against the christian religion. Sure, they aren't christians, but they also aren't trying to pull people away from christianity. Most people here, however, are against ignorant or bigoted statements, as expressed by some people on this very same thread. Saying that some christians are not christians without any clear justification fall amongst such statements.

You were attacked, not because you are christian, but because some of your statements were incorrect and offensive.

 

[Dr.GH]

I am pretty sure that "ILoveYeshua" didn't botther to read the statement affirmed by over ten thousand Christian clergy supporting evolutionary theory and Christian faith together. In his cramped narrow view they are not Christian anyway.

So, skip him.

But I did have an idea. It might help matters if people would restrain themselves from posting quick "one-liners" about evolution. (I am guilty, but I'll try to do better).

What if every question was treated in as much detail as possible? Approach even the most lamebrained PRATT seriously and present a thoroughly documented refutation. Plenty of cut'n'paste can be used with proper citation- that is why I wrote those things, and this is true for most TalkOrigins contributers.

If there are some responces ahead of you, that is fine. We could try to find some detail or nuance that has not been covered. Plus, we should cite and reference everything to the extent possible. That way everyone can see directly where there is additional supporting information.

There is no need to post hundreds of minor quibbles and chatterings. Take the creationist's position and obliterate it.

 

[Praxiteles]

I am pretty sure that "ILoveYeshua" didn't botther to read the statement affirmed by over ten thousand Christian clergy supporting evolutionary theory and Christian faith together. In his cramped narrow view they are not Christian anyway.

So, skip him.

But I did have an idea. It might help matters if people would restrain themselves from posting quick "one-liners" about evolution. (I am guilty, but I'll try to do better).

What if every question was treated in as much detail as possible? Approach even the most lamebrained PRATT seriously and present a thoroughly documented refutation. Plenty of cut'n'paste can be used with proper citation- that is why I wrote those things, and this is true for most TalkOrigins contributers.

If there are some responces ahead of you, that is fine. We could try to find some detail or nuance that has not been covered. Plus, we should cite and reference everything to the extent possible. That way everyone can see directly where there is additional supporting information.

There is no need to post hundreds of minor quibbles and chatterings. Take the creationist's position and obliterate it.

You're absolutely right, of course.

It's just a matter of will, and of patience - and there are those around that exhibit those in abundance. Gluadys springs to mind.

I must say it's often difficult to resist the temptation to respond to a creationist's silver bullet without a quick (but uninformative) smackdown.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

This however does exclude man from the process of evolution, for real christians. It doesn't necessarily exclude animals though, which were created in a sequence that many biologists would agree with, from small and less complex to larger and more complex.

You are in violation of the rules of this forum. Many christians accept evolution. By saying "real christians" you are strongly implying that anyone who accepts evolution is not really a christian.

I have reported this to the moderators.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

VOSSSER

I know of a good Christian brother who as a result of coming here became an evolutionist. I think if one's beliefs aren't strong and well grounded then yes you shouldn't be coming here.

Great, now your friend is an enlightened good Christian brother. I congradulate him for embracing the 21st century.

 

[chaoschristian]

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

If you can't get past v.1, you're not a christian. but this in itself does not preclude belief in evolution.

Genesis 1:25-27 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. (26) Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." (27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.


This however does exclude man from the process of evolution, for real christians. It doesn't necessarily exclude animals though, which were created in a sequence that many biologists would agree with, from small and less complex to larger and more complex.


Luke 3:21-38 Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened, (22) and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, "You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased." (23) Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, (24) the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, (25) the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, (26) the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, (27) the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, (28) the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, (29) the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, (30) the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, (31) the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, (32) the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, (33) the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, (34) the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, (35) the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, (36) the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, (37) the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, (38) the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Not the descendant of a beast, but of the Most High God.



And for any real christian, the following verses seal the deal.

John 10:34-36 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods (35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken; (36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

So either man is not descended from animals or Jesus is a liar. If a Christian believes in evolution for lower animals, I don't care. But to claim you are a christian and believe man is descended from animals, well you're just lying to yourself. You have to pick one, because according to Iesous Christos, the scriptures cannot be broken.

Please note the sections I have bolded and underlined.

I ask you to answer this: by what authority were you invested with the power to judge who is and who is not a real Christian? And by what authority were you invested with the power to determine how the Bible is to be interpreted and that your preferred interpretation is the only basis by which to determine scriptural truth?

Take your Bible Hammer back to your theological playroom where nobody else can get hurt by your acrimonious self-righteousness tantrums.

 

[mark kennedy]

You are in violation of the rules of this forum. Many christians accept evolution. By saying "real christians" you are strongly implying that anyone who accepts evolution is not really a christian.

I have reported this to the moderators.

I would rather be doing something else but this was just too interesting to pass up. Speaking of the rules:

Specific problem areas on these boards include:

Do not respond to posts that break forum rules! Do not respond to the offensive post directly and do not comment that you have reported the post or attack a poster by claiming that a certain comment will elicit warnings. To remind a fellow member of forum rules you may send a polite PM or simply let the moderators take care of it. Moderator action is not a weapon you may wield against others whether they break rules or not!

Notice the bolded part and...


Notice the comment :

But to claim you are a christian and believe man is descended from animals, well you're just lying to yourself.

This is not addressed to anyone in particular, it is just an opinion.

Have a nice day
Mark

 

[TheBear]

This thread still going?

 

[Dannager]

I'm asking christians to boycott evolution threads, for the following reasons.

1) The people who are pro-evolution are not going to change their stance.
2) Nor are those who are opposed to evolution.
3) And if they might change their views, there are plenty of threads for them to review the evidence already.
4) This issue has been discussed to death. It has become a major waste of time to the christian community. There's a reason we're not supposed to cast our pearls before swine.
5) Those who love to argue the pro-evolution side of the issue are only trying to stumble those who believe God's account of events, and they feed upon the controversy. The more time you feed them, the happier they are.
6) Honestly, set the filter to show every message ever posted on this subject. Isn't that enough? Hasn't a stand been made already? Focus rather on fellowship with the willing.

I'm gonna have to say "no". I'm frankly rather disappointed with the way you've responded to Christians and non-Christians alike. You have, with a wave of your hand, labeled all attacks on your OP as "anti-Christian", which is patently not true. Your OP was attacked because, quite frankly, it sucks. It's a cop-out and exactly the sort of attitude that created this sort of rampant ignorance in the first place.

The difference, ILoveYeshua, between evolutionary theory proponents and creationists is that many creationists won't change their mind no matter what evidence is presented to them (they in fact admit to this!). Evolutionary theory proponents, on the other hand, won't make up their minds until they've been convinced of a position's validity into the ground.

 

[Darth Incontinence]

This thread still going?

Yeah, well....

It had stopped until you posted in it.

 

[TheBear]

Yeah, well....

It had stopped until you posted in it.

And this one!

And for the record, only 9 minutes had elapsed since the prior post.

 

[notto]

I would rather be doing something else but this was just too interesting to pass up. Speaking of the rules:

Specific problem areas on these boards include:



Notice the bolded part and...


Notice the comment :



This is not addressed to anyone in particular, it is just an opinion.

Have a nice day
Mark

I would rather be doing something else but this was just too interesting to pass up. Speaking of the rules:

To remind a fellow member of forum rules you may send a polite PM or simply let the moderators take care of it. Moderator action is not a weapon you may wield against others whether they break rules or not!

Notice the bolded part . . .

 

[Dannager]

I would rather be doing something else but this was just too interesting to pass up. Speaking of the rules:

Notice the bolded part . . .

Ah, but the rules don't apply to moderators. Of course, this is just my opinion and is not addressed to anyone in particular.

EDIT: mark kennedy just gave me reputation for this post, with a very respectful note. For all the things creationists may be, let it never be said that none of them are civil or kind.

 

[mark kennedy]

But I didn't make a report now did I...

Grace and peace,
Mark