Asking Christians to boycott evolution threads

[ILoveYeshua]

So do you admit that one can still be Christian and accept the theory of evolution? That's all that I've really been asking you about this whole time.

One can still be a son of God through faith in Christ, God's Son, and believe that something mundane is true even if its not true. Say you believe its raining in Zimbabwe right now, but its not, but you insist to everyone that it most definitely is, even though it isnt. Now, that would make you a liar to do that, but per Mark 3:28-30:

[bible]mark 3:28-30[/bible]

It is forgiven. Along with accepting the theory of evolution. Along with reading Harry Potter. Along with all that mountain of sins. See what he suffered through by 1 account:

Matthew 27:27-43 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers. (28) And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. (29) And when they had plaited a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! (30) And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head. (31) And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him. (32) And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross. (33) And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, (34) They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. (35) And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots. (36) And sitting down they watched him there; (37) And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS. (38) Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left. (39) And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, (40) And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. (41) Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said, (42) He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. (43) He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.


Mocking, spitting, beating, and crucifixion on top of it all. Belief in the theory of evolution is a forgivable sin, if it is a sin at all. The Bible says it happened one way, evolution says it happened in a way that is not congruent with the biblical account. I've taken enough biology to know and understand why many people buy it, but I just can't make that leap of faith into believing it. There's too many missing pieces in ToE to prove that the origin of man was caused by evolution, but that's just me! But all I need to accept the 6 day creation story is faith in Christ, who said the scriptures could not be broken. then i just believe what i read. and yknow what, it doesnt bother me one iota. science won't be set back by my personal belief in young-earth creation, the cure for cancer won't come any later because i ask people to boycott evolution threads.

As for me, I know that the Messiah Yeshua of Nazareth, our Lord, is the cure for cancer, and far more. But O Lord, who hath believed our report?

Isaiah 53:1-3 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? (2) For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. (3) He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

He died as a man accursed, crucified, abandoned by his friends. But he rose from the dead. That's all the proof I need that ToE is flawed.

 

[vossler]

Belief in the theory of evolution is a forgivable sin, if it is a sin at all. The Bible says it happened one way, evolution says it happened in a way that is not congruent with the biblical account. I've taken enough biology to know and understand why many people buy it, but I just can't make that leap of faith into believing it. There's too many missing pieces in ToE to prove that the origin of man was caused by evolution, but that's just me! But all I need to accept the 6 day creation story is faith in Christ, who said the scriptures could not be broken. then i just believe what i read. and yknow what, it doesnt bother me one iota. science won't be set back by my personal belief in young-earth creation, the cure for cancer won't come any later because i ask people to boycott evolution threads.

As for me, I know that the Messiah Yeshua of Nazareth, our Lord, is the cure for cancer, and far more. But O Lord, who hath believed our report?

Isaiah 53:1-3 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? (2) For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. (3) He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

He died as a man accursed, crucified, abandoned by his friends. But he rose from the dead. That's all the proof I need that ToE is flawed.

Now there's something I sink my teeth into that's real. I couldn't agree more! What a refreshingly strong and solid post that sums it all up. Thanks!

 

[Dal M.]

He died as a man accursed, crucified, abandoned by his friends. But he rose from the dead. That's all the proof I need that ToE is flawed.

How is your conclusion (the ToE is false) derived from your premise (Jesus was resurrected)?

 

[TheInstant]

One can still be a son of God through faith in Christ, God's Son, and believe that something mundane is true even if its not true.

Ok, now that we've got that cleared up:

4) This issue has been discussed to death. It has become a major waste of time to the christian community. There's a reason we're not supposed to cast our pearls before swine.

This debate is not a case of Christians "casting their pearls before swine" (supporters of evolution) because, as we have resolved, there are Christians on both sides of the debate.

5) Those who love to argue the pro-evolution side of the issue are only trying to stumble those who believe God's account of events, and they feed upon the controversy. The more time you feed them, the happier they are.

This point does not apply because, again, there are Christians on both sides. The Christians supporting evolution believe God's account of events just as much as the YECs, they just read it allegorically. The debate is not Christians vs. those who are trying to "stumble those who believe God's account of events".

6) Honestly, set the filter to show every message ever posted on this subject. Isn't that enough? Hasn't a stand been made already? Focus rather on fellowship with the willing.
This debate is not based on "taking a stand" for Christianity since, again, there are Christians on both sides.

All that we're now left with is your assertion that the debate is a waste of time because no one is going to change their minds. Since people have changed their minds, this is not a correct assertion. Even if you still think the debate is a waste of time, other Christians obviously do not.

Do you have any other reasons why Christians should boycott the debate? Because as far as I can tell, none of the points from your OP are valid.

 

[Numenor]

He died as a man accursed, crucified, abandoned by his friends. But he rose from the dead. That's all the proof I need that ToE is flawed.

It's your logic that is flawed, fatally so. Christ's deat and resurrection says nothing about the method God used to create.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

Christ's resurrection proves he never lied, which proves the scriptures cannot be broken, which confirms the validity of the stories therein.

 

[Olivier]

Christ's resurrection proves he never lied, which proves the scriptures cannot be broken, which confirms the validity of the stories therein.

Yes Jesus never lied but everybody doesn't understand with the same meaning this verse in John 6 :56 :
"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him."
And it may be possible that is't the same for others verses.

 

[Opethian]

Christ's resurrection proves he never lied, which proves the scriptures cannot be broken, which confirms the validity of the stories therein.

Uhmm...

How can Jesus' supposed resurrection prove anything if the resurrection itself wasn't proven?

It's a myth...

 

[Phred]

He died as a man accursed, crucified, abandoned by his friends. But he rose from the dead. That's all the proof I need that ToE is flawed.

So you're ignorant and determined to remain ignorant. What exactly is praise-worthy about that? If you can't understand the difference between belief and knowledge...

 

[TheInstant]

Christ's resurrection proves he never lied, which proves the scriptures cannot be broken, which confirms the validity of the stories therein.

Haven't we already gone over all of this? Why does "cannot be broken" have to mean "must be taken as literal history"? Why is the Bible "broken" if taken allegorically?

 

[ILoveYeshua]

how do you pick which parts to take allegorically? flip a coin?

 

[Valkhorn]

how do you pick which parts to take allegorically? flip a coin?

Now you're slowly getting it. Take Genesis for example. It can sound like a mythological creation story and some take it literally. But, how do we know how to treat it?

Take the age of the Earth for example. We have too much evidence that gives us an EXACT age of 4.5 billion years. This isn't just a guess. All research that has been done to yield this result has been published in journals throughout the world and has been scrutinized to the point that if it was even slightly wrong that it would have been corrected.

Since we know this as a fact, we literally know that Genesis's creation account of 'days' simply cannot be literal 24 hour days. To say so would say that the book of Genesis if it was literal means that 'god' implanted false evidence throughout our solar system including evidence from meteorites and other planets that give about the same age as well.

What about the supposed global flood? Since we see no evidence of a global flood or population bottleneck as is required from this that it is highly plausible that the worst that could happen was a local flood where a local merchant put his wares on a barge and landed on a hill side (which we have evidence for, look up the story of Ziasudra) that it is more likely that it is a metaphor or a blown out of proportion story.

It's basically common sense. Look at the facts, the facts are unbiased. The facts do not lie. You simply can't hold the Bible over the factual evidence when evidence might point otherwise.

 

[Brimshack]

I'm asking christians to boycott evolution threads, for the following reasons.

...

1) The people who are pro-evolution are not going to change their stance.

Were this true, there would never be any conversions to evangelical Christianity. That people are resistant to changing their beliefs is true enough, but that isn't what you have claimed here. What you have claimed here is a clear falsehood, as people do from time to time change their opinion. If that doesn't matter to you, then so be it. But your lack of interest in the prospect of real dialogue does nothing to requit the outright falsehood of your statement above.

2) Nor are those who are opposed to evolution.

This too is not true. People have changed their minds about this subject, some from this very forum. This is the second outright falsehood in your post.

3) And if they might change their views, there are plenty of threads for them to review the evidence already.

...in your view of course. But before you assume teh authority to decide how much evidence is enough, or how people should go about getting evidence, you might want to consider the value of dialogue in learning. People often learn more from the give&take of talking about a subject than they do from simply reading material already written by others.

4) This issue has been discussed to death. It has become a major waste of time to the christian community. There's a reason we're not supposed to cast our pearls before swine.

Do you really think there is a natural ending point to any of these conversations? Some of the topics discussed on this site have been debated for thousands of years, and that's just as far as we can document them. Surely, questions about free will, the existence of God, the rightness or wrongness of Christianity, etc. have all been discussed to death. Does this mean all dialogue on all of these should stop. Or does your authority over these matters extend to piecemeal decisions. Admittedly, you need not be consistent here, but surely this reason is pretty short-sited.

BTW: The reason it is a waste of time is that Christians have chosen a bad fight on this one. And the many deceits fostered in the name of Christian Science have done a real dis-service to the faith. I think it would in fact be a good idea for YECs, and especially the so-called "Creation Scientists" to re-examineto re-examine the importance of this notion to their faith and the wisdom of pursuing such a pathetically and justifyiably lost cause. If it comforts them to call their opponents "pigs" in so doing, then that is fine, but it probably would be best if more Christians would find a better axe to grind.

5) Those who love to argue the pro-evolution side of the issue are only trying to stumble those who believe God's account of events, and they feed upon the controversy. The more time you feed them, the happier they are.

Alternatively, the people you disagree with could be credited with honestly believing the truth of their position, and perhaps even suffering a certain degree of the normal bias that goes with having formed an opinion to begin with. That you cannot seem to grant as much to your opponents is unfortunate. It might also be a telling indication of bad faith on your part, but I doubt you will be sorting that prospect out any time soon.

6) Honestly, set the filter to show every message ever posted on this subject. Isn't that enough? Hasn't a stand been made already? Focus rather on fellowship with the willing.

link to page 14 with responses:
page 14

But of course you could have done this yourself, couldn't you have? With no fan fair, no dramatics, no sour grapes, and no parting insults to the opposition. Instead you call for fellowship while poisoning the waters behind you.

I hope your fellowship with the willing is more productive, more accurate, and more forthright than your (apparently final) effort to communicate with the rest of us.

 

[Numenor]

how do you pick which parts to take allegorically? flip a coin?

Try using the brain God gave you.

 

[TheBear]

I'm asking christians to boycott evolution threads, for the following reasons.

1) The people who are pro-evolution are not going to change their stance.
2) Nor are those who are opposed to evolution.
3) And if they might change their views, there are plenty of threads for them to review the evidence already.
4) This issue has been discussed to death. It has become a major waste of time to the christian community. There's a reason we're not supposed to cast our pearls before swine.
5) Those who love to argue the pro-evolution side of the issue are only trying to stumble those who believe God's account of events, and they feed upon the controversy. The more time you feed them, the happier they are.
6) Honestly, set the filter to show every message ever posted on this subject. Isn't that enough? Hasn't a stand been made already? Focus rather on fellowship with the willing.

link to page 14 with responses:
page 14

Here. I'll help out by bumping this thread.

 

[Jet Black]

how do you pick which parts to take allegorically?

of the bits that you take allegorically, why do you take them allegorically?

 

[FreezBee]

I'm asking christians to boycott evolution threads, for the following reasons.

Ok, you have the right to ask

1) The people who are pro-evolution are not going to change their stance.

I have observed a post, where the poster claimed to have converted from pro-evolution to pro-YEC, so never give up the hope.

2) Nor are those who are opposed to evolution.

Combining 1 and 2 would give that people should only post in threads that are pro their own position. While I am pro-evolution, I occasionally find that creationists can come up with good points that I would like them to elaborate on, so maybe this cliqueism is not the best way ahead.

3) And if they might change their views, there are plenty of threads for them to review the evidence already.

But what if they want to ask a question, are they then not allowed to post in the threads of the opposite camp?

4) This issue has been discussed to death. It has become a major waste of time to the christian community. There's a reason we're not supposed to cast our pearls before swine.

And exactly who might you be referring to here as swine?

5) Those who love to argue the pro-evolution side of the issue are only trying to stumble those who believe God's account of events, and they feed upon the controversy. The more time you feed them, the happier they are.

And what is God's account of events? Assuming a divine creator, would not the creato's account of events be in the creation? If natural science contradicts the Bible, then possibly the Bible has been misunderstood.

6) Honestly, set the filter to show every message ever posted on this subject. Isn't that enough? Hasn't a stand been made already? Focus rather on fellowship with the willing.

Yes, but the willing to what?


- FreezBee

 

[ILoveYeshua]

another thing came to mind (that has probably been mentioned a thousand times, but I figure I may as well post it anyway) about the creation story that may help some of you evolutionists ease up on YEC'ers, about how with God a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. So even if it were 6 real days, God could have done thousands of years worth of work in that day. This keeps the record biblically consistent while allowing for the evidentary age of 4.5 billion years.

One other thing, quantum physics requires an observer in order to collapse the probability wave one way or another, right? So prior to that first observer (besides God who has always been observing), the universe merely existed in a quantum mush of probability, for lack of a better phrase. When that first observer did see, the wave collapsed into reality, but prior to that it was in an unknown state that science can say nothing definitive about.

 

[Jet Black]

another thing came to mind (that has probably been mentioned a thousand times, but I figure I may as well post it anyway) about the creation story that may help some of you evolutionists ease up on YEC'ers, about how with God a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. So even if it were 6 real days, God could have done thousands of years worth of work in that day. This keeps the record biblically consistent while allowing for the evidentary age of 4.5 billion years.

I don't think anyone is saying that God couldn't do it, it just looks like he didn't. pleased to se you agree the universe does look incredibly old though

One other thing, quantum physics requires an observer in order to collapse the probability wave one way or another, right? So prior to that first observer (besides God who has always been observing), the universe merely existed in a quantum mush of probability, for lack of a better phrase. When that first observer did see, the wave collapsed into reality, but prior to that it was in an unknown state that science can say nothing definitive about.

no no no no no. please, if you don't know anything about quantum mechanics, please don't pretend that you do. you end up looking silly

 

[ILoveYeshua]

> no no no no no. please, if you don't know anything about quantum mechanics, please don't pretend that you do. you end up looking silly

hehe alright, thats fine by me. i guess that college course in it didnt do much for me