Ask a Christian philosopher a question

[Nihilist Virus]

They are soft back books.

Could you scan the relevant pages and post them? If not, the only thing that could work is if you mail them to a church I used to frequent and I'd get in contact with them to pick them up.

 

[Chriliman]

Not really, no.

Lets sharpen our critical thinking skills together!

If one desires a perfectly good God to be true, they desire something greater than themselves with the ability to make perfect judgments regarding the morally good and bad actions of their fellow human beings as well as themselves. They desire to see the good actions be rightfully rewarded and the bad actions be rightfully punished by this perfect God.

If one desires a particular religion to be true, they desire their own beliefs about this particular religion to be true, meaning they are more concerned with themselves and their beliefs rather than with what is actually right and correct.

Do you see the difference now?

 

[anonymous person]

Could you scan the relevant pages and post them? If not, the only thing that could work is if you mail them to a church I used to frequent and I'd get in contact with them to pick them up.

I will send them to the church if you want. Just inform them to be on the lookout for a package from Mrs. Redmond.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

It appears that our self-declared Christian philosopher isn't too keen to answer questions, even though that is ostensibly why he began this thread. I'd pretend to be surprised, but I'm not.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Lets sharpen our critical thinking skills together!

If one desires a perfectly good God to be true, they desire something greater than themselves with the ability to make perfect judgments regarding the morally good and bad actions of their fellow human beings as well as themselves. They desire to see the good actions be rightfully rewarded and the bad actions be rightfully punished by this perfect God.

If one desires a particular religion to be true, they desire their own beliefs about this particular religion to be true, meaning they are more concerned with themselves and their beliefs rather than with what is actually right and correct.

Do you see the difference now?

Do you think there's a significant difference between your personal desires about your beliefs in god....

....and your personal desires about your beliefs in religion?

If so...what's the difference?

 

[Chriliman]

Do you think there's a significant difference between your personal desires about your beliefs in god....

....and your personal desires about your beliefs in religion?

If so...what's the difference?

I define religion as a collection of beliefs. I don't necessarily "believe" in religion. I believe religion can lead to the truth, but no religion itself is actually the truth. I believe Christian religion leads to the truth, but the Christian religion itself is not the truth. Just like Atheism is not the truth.

No one says "I'm going to do this in the name of the Christian religion!" or "I'm going to do this in the name of Atheism!"

 

[Ana the Ist]

I define religion as a collection of beliefs. I don't necessarily "believe" in religion. I believe religion can lead to the truth, but no religion itself is actually the truth. I believe Christian religion leads to the truth, but the Christian religion itself is not the truth. Just like Atheism is not the truth.

No one says "I'm going to do this in the name of the Christian religion!" or "I'm going to do this in the name of Atheism!"

Ok...I don't see where you're going with this.

 

[Chriliman]

Ok...I don't see where you're going with this.

My point is that I view religion as a path to the truth. I view all collections of beliefs as a religion, this includes each individual's collection of beliefs, including an atheist's collection of beliefs.

The reason we have "big religions" like Islam, Christianity and Hinduism is because many many people have discovered a truth that makes sense to them and are sharing their experiences and beliefs which is what grows a religion to be so large.

Atheism will grow as well, as more and more people share their experiences and beliefs in regards to the "big religions" as well as in regards to what they perceive to be true about reality. When you objectively view belief and religion in this way you realize Atheism is no different than any other religion, it's a collection of beliefs that is leading to a truth.

 

[Ana the Ist]

My point is that I view religion as a path to the truth. I view all collections of beliefs as a religion, this includes each individual's collection of beliefs, including an atheist's collection of beliefs.

The reason we have "big religions" like Islam, Christianity and Hinduism is because many many people have discovered a truth that makes sense to them and are sharing their experiences and beliefs which is what grows a religion to be so large.

Atheism will grow as well, as more and more people share their experiences and beliefs in regards to the "big religions" as well as in regards to what they perceive to be true about reality. When you objectively view belief and religion in this way you realize Atheism is no different than any other religion, it's a collection of beliefs that is leading to a truth.

Ok...

First off, atheism isn't a collection of beliefs. If you really think it is...go ahead and list some...

Secondly, you're more than welcome to invent your own definition for the word "religion"...just keep in mind that your definition isn't the one that basically everyone else is using. Religion isn't just a "collection of beliefs", it's a bit more specific than that? For example...I could start telling you about a collection of beliefs related to the food in my fridge, would you call those beliefs a "religion"?

Finally...just about every major religion is a "major religion" because of multiple elements attached to it's specific ideology and history. When it comes to the three you named...we can attribute a fair amount of their proliferation to violence and the authority they confer to rulers. We can also attribute much of their continued success to indoctrination...or, at least I think I could successfully argue as much. It's nice you think there must be some truth related to them...but those "truths" aren't even agreed upon within the religions themselves let alone outside of them. They certainly aren't truths anyone has demonstrated or proven.

 

[HitchSlap]

My point is that I view religion as a path to the truth. I view all collections of beliefs as a religion, this includes each individual's collection of beliefs, including an atheist's collection of beliefs.

The reason we have "big religions" like Islam, Christianity and Hinduism is because many many people have discovered a truth that makes sense to them and are sharing their experiences and beliefs which is what grows a religion to be so large.

Atheism will grow as well, as more and more people share their experiences and beliefs in regards to the "big religions" as well as in regards to what they perceive to be true about reality. When you objectively view belief and religion in this way you realize Atheism is no different than any other religion, it's a collection of beliefs that is leading to a truth.

So where should I send my tithe to, what day shall I worship on, and to whom shall I pray?

 

[bhsmte]

Lets sharpen our critical thinking skills together!

If one desires a perfectly good God to be true, they desire something greater than themselves with the ability to make perfect judgments regarding the morally good and bad actions of their fellow human beings as well as themselves. They desire to see the good actions be rightfully rewarded and the bad actions be rightfully punished by this perfect God.

If one desires a particular religion to be true, they desire their own beliefs about this particular religion to be true, meaning they are more concerned with themselves and their beliefs rather than with what is actually right and correct.

Do you see the difference now?

No, because both are based on personal desires and personal desires, have been known to disregard reality.

Thanks for the offer of sharpening the critical thinking skills, but I can't help but consider the source.

 

[Chriliman]

Ok...

First off, atheism isn't a collection of beliefs. If you really think it is...go ahead and list some...

Secondly, you're more than welcome to invent your own definition for the word "religion"...just keep in mind that your definition isn't the one that basically everyone else is using. Religion isn't just a "collection of beliefs", it's a bit more specific than that? For example...I could start telling you about a collection of beliefs related to the food in my fridge, would you call those beliefs a "religion"?

Finally...just about every major religion is a "major religion" because of multiple elements attached to it's specific ideology and history. When it comes to the three you named...we can attribute a fair amount of their proliferation to violence and the authority they confer to rulers. We can also attribute much of their continued success to indoctrination...or, at least I think I could successfully argue as much. It's nice you think there must be some truth related to them...but those "truths" aren't even agreed upon within the religions themselves let alone outside of them. They certainly aren't truths anyone has demonstrated or proven.

You are an Atheist. You have a collection of beliefs that has lead you to your Atheism.

If your beliefs about what is true didn't lead you to your Atheism, then what did?

 

[Chriliman]

No, because both are based on personal desires and personal desires, have been known to disregard reality.

Thanks for the offer of sharpening the critical thinking skills, but I can't help but consider the source.

Is it not your personal desire to rely on reality to determine what is true?

That's good for you. Some rely on God to determine what is true.

 

[bhsmte]

Is it not your personal desire to rely on reality to determine what is true?

That's good for you. Some rely on God to determine what is true.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[bhsmte]

You are an Atheist. You have a collection of beliefs that has lead you to your Atheism.

If your beliefs about what is true didn't lead you to your Atheism, then what did?

More than likely, as simple lack of belief in Gods.

 

[HitchSlap]

You are an Atheist. You have a collection of beliefs that has lead you to your Atheism.

If your beliefs about what is true didn't lead you to your Atheism, then what did?

What leads people to not collect stamps?

 

[Ana the Ist]

You are an Atheist. You have a collection of beliefs that has lead you to your Atheism.

If your beliefs about what is true didn't lead you to your Atheism, then what did?

I was like...10-12 when I decided that god didn't exist...and I'll readily admit my reasons at the time weren't all that great.

That's not really the point though....you're saying that there is an "atheist religion". My reasons for being an atheist aren't necessarily anyone else's reasons for being an atheist. Apart from not believing in god, any atheist and myself could disagree on literally everything we believe about everything...and we'd still both be atheists.

Or are you claiming that each atheist has their own personal religion unique to them? If so...why would you call it an "atheist religion"?

 

[Chriliman]

What leads people to not collect stamps?

Great point!

I lack the need for stamps, therefore I do not need to collect them.

You lack the need for God, therefore you do not need to believe in God.

I need to believe in God because God is the only explanation for my experiences in life and the reality I observe.

You do not need to believe in God because you think reality has a perfectly good explanation apart from God. Except you have yet to come across that perfectly good explanation of reality that can replace a perfectly good God.

Interesting...

 

[bhsmte]

Great point!

I lack the need for stamps, therefore I do not need to collect them.

You lack the need for God, therefore you do not need to believe in God.

I need to believe in God because God is the only explanation for my experiences in life and the reality I observe.

You do not need to believe in God because you think reality has a perfectly good explanation apart from God. Except you have yet to come across that perfectly good explanation of reality that can replace a perfectly good God.

Interesting...

I would agree with you.

Theists tend to base their beliefs on "needs" and "needs" can be blind to reality, because the need will often, be a priority over well evidenced reality.

 

[Chriliman]

I was like...10-12 when I decided that god didn't exist...and I'll readily admit my reasons at the time weren't all that great.

I'm glad you can admit that

That's not really the point though....you're saying that there is an "atheist religion". My reasons for being an atheist aren't necessarily anyone else's reasons for being an atheist. Apart from not believing in god, any atheist and myself could disagree on literally everything we believe about everything...and we'd still both be atheists.

To me that is the problem with Atheism. Atheists will agree to not believe in God, but then continue to try and figure out reality and not understand why they can't figure it out in a way that brings all of reality together in a way that makes sense to them personally.

Or are you claiming that each atheist has their own personal religion unique to them? If so...why would you call it an "atheist religion"?

This is closer to how I perceive Atheism.