Aron-Ra vs JohnR7: Question # 2

[joshua 1 9]

If God does not give me the ability to understand, He can hardly blame me if I do not believe in Him.

This is what we call serpent talk like the serpent in the Garden of Eden was wanting to deceive Eve. You want to claim we are justified and God is not justified. The problem with that is He is the Judge. When people go before God their glass alibis will shatter like Glass before the Throne. They will have NO defense. If you want, next time you go before a human judge try this defense and see how far it gets you.

Romans 14 "11 It is written: “As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God.” 12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God."

Like I said we need to be born again of the Spirit. The very first letter in the Bible is the letter B (beta) (beginning) This has a value of two and this represents the spirit. We know that computers and chemistry (DNA) works off of 0 & 1 or off and on. This is the logic and reasoning that you are using. The body and the soul or personality. The Bible adds the SPIRIT or a third aspect to man. This is the breath of life (naphach). Gerald Schroeder PhD physics MIT teaches a lot better on this then I can. So if anyone wants to know more then this they can find him on YouTube. This video is less than 5 min so it does not take long to watch. It sounds like you understand science enough to understand Dr Schroeder.

Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being".

 

[Astrophile]

I do not care if anyone believes me or not, it really does not matter at all. I tend to be a dispensationalist. I believe the church age or the age of grace is 2,000 years in length. Although I do not know for sure that the rapture takes place at the end of the 2,000 years but as they day draws near I do know that LOTS of people will be selling books trying to prophet off of that date.

The question is: when was the day of pentacost. When was the Holy Spirit poured out on the church. The wise men knew exactly when and where Jesus was going to enter into the world and they were there to meet him. Actually, I get my date from Neil Degrasse Tyson and he happens to be agnostic. A comet will go over Jerusalem at the exact moment 2,000 years from when Jesus died at calvery then 7 years later the same comet goes over Jerusalem on the 2,000 date from when Jesus rose from the dead. For me there is just no way that could be a coincidence sense comets do not know the Hebrew calendar.

Luke says: "There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves" So this is the sort of sign we should be looking for. Neil Degrasse says there is a chance this could happen on that day in 2036. Although Nasa claims the chance of this happening on that date is very slim. As a Christian we are told to expect a 7 year tribulation period.

This last season people in California, Texas, Florida, & Puerto Rico are now believers in being Preppers and prepared for any disaster that may come their way. The Mormons have been teaching this for 100 years that we should be prepared and ready at all times. My brother lives in Tampa and he has a house that can handle 120 mph winds, so he is prepared and ready. The Bible says to prepare for the storms of life and build on a solid foundation. If you build on sand the storm will come and wash your house away.

The object that you are describing is 99942 Apophis, which is a near-Earth asteroid, not a comet. The latest news that I have been able to find (dated 10 January 2013) is that Apophis will miss the Earth both in 2029 and 2036 - see 99942 Apophis - Wikipedia and News | NASA Rules Out Earth Impact in 2036 for Asteroid Apophis . According to Wikipedia, Apophis will miss the Earth by 31200 km on 13 April 2029, and it will miss us by at least 23 million kilometres in late March 2036.

I don't know where you got your information about the comet passing over Jerusalem exactly 2000 years after the crucifixion and again 2000 years after the resurrection; Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn't mention this, and it's not in Wikipedia or in the NASA JPL website.

 

[Astrophile]

The flood "works" just fine. All science comes from the Bible. We know a LOT more about science today than we did 500 years ago. Yet Bishop Usshers book written over 500 years ago is still accurate and true today. Even if people have trouble understanding how to interpret the Bible. The Bible remains steadfast and true if people understand or not.

You have misunderstood what I meant. If God sent the flood to get rid of the wicked people, he was not successful; people after the flood have been as wicked as their antediluvian ancestors. As I pointed out, Noah got drunk after the flood, and cursed the descendants of his son Ham with perpetual slavery. His own descendants angered God by trying to build a tower that would reach up to heaven, so that God had to confuse their languages. (That didn't work either; even after the confusion of tongues, people have gone on building high towers.)

By the way, Bishop Ussher's book was published in the summer of 1650. This is nearly 368 years ago, not 'over 500 years'.

2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."

Because fire purifies more than water does.

In that case, why didn't God use fire rather than water for the first cleansing?

I could address the points you brought up if you want, but they were not stated as a question so I do not know if you want me to talk about them or not.

Yes, I should be interested in what you think about these points.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If God sent the flood to get rid of the wicked people, he was not successful

God always accomplishes His purpose. The Bible talks about: "the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them." Whoever these people were they were the ones that were destroyed in the flood in the day of Noah. The reason we are told is because: "every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually". IF God did not spare them then all the more we should be diligent to be righteous before God. We are told that every branch that does not produce fruit will but cut off and thrown into the fire. For now God is patient not wanting any to perish but for all to come to a saving knowledge of the truth. Still there are people in the valley of indecision that have not made up their mind and they have not yet made their choice.

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Genesis 6:5

 

[joshua 1 9]

I don't know where you got your information about the comet passing over Jerusalem exactly 2000 years after the crucifixion and again 2000 years after the resurrection; Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn't mention this, and it's not in Wikipedia or in the NASA JPL website.

The Friday date in 2029 is exactly 2 weeks early. The Sunday date on April 13 2036 does line up with Easter Sunday or the day of resurrection as we celebrate it in the church.

The date Tyson gives us is Friday April 13, 2029. Good Friday in 2029 is on Friday, March 30. Easter or resurrection Sunday is on April 13 2036, so that day does line up with the date for the asteroid. I am not making any predictions here.

I am not saying anything is going to happen. I am using the asteroid as a marker for the 2000 year anniversary of the church. Although I am sure something will happen that people will connect with this event. The Church began on the day of pentacost 50 days after passover.

 

[Astrophile]

God always accomplishes His purpose. The Bible talks about: "the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them." Whoever these people were they were the ones that were destroyed in the flood in the day of Noah.

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Genesis 6:5

It still didn't work. According to Numbers 13:33, the Anakim were descended from the Nephilim, and they were still inhabiting the land of Canaan in the time of Moses, more than a thousand years after the flood. In Deuteronomy 2:20-21 we are told about the Rephaim or Zamzummim, who were 'as tall as the Anakim'; they were destroyed by the Ammonites, the descendants of Lot's incest with his younger daughter. Perhaps the Rephaim were also descended from the Nephilim; if not, where did they come from?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Because he is still active on YouTube, even if he does not want to continue to defend his atheism here on this forum.
Although in all fairness to him, he was more into trying to defend evolution and there does not seem to be much of a debate there anymore.

There never really was a debate within the field of biology, you know... not the past 150 years anyway.

We know that all Science comes from the Bible

No, it doesn't.

so there is no conflict between the Bible and true Science.

Yes, there is.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I enjoy the fact that they test it, it's the lack of results that I find most interesting

Lack of results? What are you talking about? Tremendous progress has been made in that field already.

Either the origin of life remains are a mystery never to be fathomed or the only other alternative is the only viable explanation.

1. just because it hasn't been solved in full yet, doesn't mean that it's a complete mystery

2. "the ONLY other alternative", only exists in your biased theistic mind. It's a false dichotomy.

3. "god did it", in reality, isn't an alternative AT ALL. Because it's just a bare assertion. We could just as well say "chemistry did it" and it would have the exact same merrit.

 

[DogmaHunter]

God creates life and evolution starts there, it's not rocket science.

Indeed, that's not science. Rocket or otherwise.

Instead, that's religion.

 

[mark kennedy]

Lack of results? What are you talking about? Tremendous progress has been made in that field already.

Opinions vary.

1. just because it hasn't been solved in full yet, doesn't mean that it's a complete mystery

If it's not directly observed or demonstrated it dosen't count.

2. "the ONLY other alternative", only exists in your biased theistic mind. It's a false dichotomy.

Sure, if you dismiss the theistic mind as erroneous.

3. "god did it", in reality, isn't an alternative AT ALL. Because it's just a bare assertion. We could just as well say "chemistry did it" and it would have the exact same merrit.

God didn't do it isn't an explanation either and it's absolutely insisted on. At a minimum there has to be a cause and effect and the cause of life originating is very much a mystery in science, I know, I follow the subject matter on a regular basis. Nothing conclusive has been produced.

 

[Speedwell]

God didn't do it isn't an explanation either and it's absolutely insisted on.

That is a slanderous falsehood.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Opinions vary.

That's not an opinion. There factually ARE results in that field of research. Plenty of progress has been made already.

Sounds like you are saying that we either know everything about it, or we know nothing at all. Doesn't seem really fair, does it?

The fact is that we know plenty of stuff already. Loads, if not most or even all, of the organic "building blocks" of life have been unraveled already. Molecules that once were branded "too complex" to be able to form naturally by creationists.... We've discovered how those things can form quite happily on their own under certain circumstances. We've even found them in space rocks.

Just because we haven't solved it for 100% yet, doesn't mean that we know "nothing" about it, or that we "lack results".

It's just not an honest representation of the progress that HAS been made already....

If it's not directly observed or demonstrated it dosen't count.

That's what I'm saying.... plenty of aspects HAVE been directly observerd and demonstrated.
This "all or nothing" attitude, simply isn't honest and doesn't do this field any justice.

Sure, if you dismiss the theistic mind as erroneous.

Try "biased" instead.
What I'm saying.... what you call the "ONLY" alternative, is merely what you believe.
If you were a scientologists, your "ONLY" other alternative would be something else.

But it isn't a viable alternative at all. It's, instead, an argument from ignorance. "science doesn't know, therefor my personal religious belief is correct"

God didn't do it isn't an explanation either and it's absolutely insisted on.

Who exactly is insisting on that? It's false.
Instead, it's the religious, creationists in particular, who insist on including god as a factor. But the problem is that they have no rational reason to. Gods simply don't show up in these processes. You can't exactly blame science for not including any factors that don't have any demonstrable manifestation of effect or whatsoever on the process being studied.........

Nobody insists on NOT including gods. Instead, science insist in NOT including things that aren't in evidence. Your god happens to be one of those things that aren't in evidence.

You want to include god? Then demonstrate how this god is relevant to the phenomena in which you wish to include him. It really is that simple.

At a minimum there has to be a cause and effect

Sure. But that causal relationship needs to be demonstrated. It's not enough to simply assert it.

and the cause of life originating is very much a mystery in science, I know, I follow the subject matter on a regular basis. Nothing conclusive has been produced.

I don't agree to how you phrased it, but for the sake of argument I'll go along with it.

In that case, the only proper statement at this time is: "we don't know". NOT "god (that I happen to believe in) did it"

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

God creates life and evolution starts there, it's not rocket science.

...In fact, it's not science at all.

I'll hazard a guess you have no evidence of this God creating life, or even just any evidence of your God existing in the first place?

 

[mark kennedy]

...In fact, it's not science at all.

I'll hazard a guess you have no evidence of this God creating life, or even just any evidence of your God existing in the first place?

Proof of God you already have (Romans 1:18-20) but humanity suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness, not my words but Paul's. As far as the evidence it's up for grabs and I have yet to the explanation for the three fold expansion of the human brain from that of apes, over night, about 2mya, without precursors.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

I am talking about the Science of Frances Collins the leading expert on DNA. I may not believe everything he believes but he is a lot more qualified then I am so I defer to him.

'God Is Not Threatened by Our Scientific Adventures'

The Question of God . Other Voices . Francis Collins | PBS

Wait, are we talking about Science, or Francis Collins' personal beliefs? You know Science is the same for everyone, right? That Francis Collins has a personal and unfounded religious belief about the source of Science and the Scientific method doesn't mean he's right let alone founded in rational epistemology. He doesn't have his own "Science' separate from anyone else. He isn't involving God in any of his scientific research.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Proof of God you already have (Romans 1:18-20) but humanity suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness, not my words but Paul's. As far as the evidence it's up for grabs and I have yet to the explanation for the three fold expansion of the human brain from that of apes, over night, about 2mya, without precursors.

This is how I know your particular version of your God either doesn't exist, or had no part in writing that scripture. Aside me knowing what I know better than you, especially that I don't in fact know your God exists, more people on this planet than not, also don't believe your God exists. Heck, there's Billions of people alive that haven't even heard of him. Your presumption to tell me what I know is of utmost arrogance. Just on that point alone, you've provided knock-down evidence to me personally that your version of your God is non-existent. Unless of course the author of Romans, (Paul) is a God? because if people like you think you're winning people over by telling us we "know" he exists, but just want to live in our sin, then let me fill you in on how much you're laying ruin to that foundation right now...

it's nothing short of a scorched earth retreat in "Soul-saving" Land.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

3. "god did it", in reality, isn't an alternative AT ALL. Because it's just a bare assertion. We could just as well say "chemistry did it" and it would have the exact same merrit.

....actually, we know chemistry is a thing, we have evidence of it and entire fields of science are devoted to it - so it's a whole lot more plausible than "god did it" straight off the bat.

 

[DogmaHunter]

....actually, we know chemistry is a thing, we have evidence of it and entire fields of science are devoted to it - so it's a whole lot more plausible than "god did it" straight off the bat.

That is certainly correct.

In my defense, "god did it" is such an empty and vague claim, that it's hard to match it on those terms in analogies

 

[tas8831]

I don't know where you got your information about the comet passing over Jerusalem exactly 2000 years after the crucifixion and again 2000 years after the resurrection; Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn't mention this, and it's not in Wikipedia or in the NASA JPL website.

Well sure but it makes a great story, so it must be true!