Aron-Ra vs JohnR7: Question # 2

[mark kennedy]

Ow, that I can believe.

I've seen Aron "the sledgehammer" Ra do his thing on youtube a few times.
I can imagine that such an experience might still sting a decade later...

It does, trust me, but the guy also had some moments of pure brilliance. I wouldn't have had a problem with him if he didn't go off into those rants. I was kind of use to it at the time, it sort of goes with being a Creationist in a debate forum. Personally I'm over it but it was kind of interesting to see such an old thread pop up out of the stacks like this. Gotta hand it to him, he does know how to leave a lasting impression.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Why are you engaging a conversation that ended 14 years ago?

Because he is still active on YouTube, even if he does not want to continue to defend his atheism here on this forum. Although in all fairness to him, he was more into trying to defend evolution and there does not seem to be much of a debate there anymore. We know that all Science comes from the Bible so there is no conflict between the Bible and true Science.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Because he is still active on YouTube, even if he does not want to continue to defend his atheism here on this forum. Although in all fairness to him, he was more into trying to defend evolution and there does not seem to be much of a debate there anymore. We know that all Science comes from the Bible so there is no conflict between the Bible and true Science.

Ahh, Yes! That's that 'Special' Science, right? That's all the Science you wouldn't want to live without, less all the Science you don't like... How typically creationist.

 

[mark kennedy]

Ahh, Yes! That's that 'Special' Science, right? That's all the Science you wouldn't want to live without, less all the Science you don't like... How typically creationist.

Funny I always thought science was kind of neutral, not really concerned with the point of origins, just what happens after.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Funny I always thought science was kind of neutral, not really concerned with the point of origins, just what happens after.

True, and that's to what I refer - though I don't get why Creationists can't accept Science for just that, rather than cherry-pick the Science they like and simultaneously disparage and pollute the Science they don't like. It's all the same Science...

 

[PsychoSarah]

Funny I always thought science was kind of neutral, not really concerned with the point of origins, just what happens after.

-_- if that were the case, the abiogenesis hypothesis wouldn't have ever been made or tested. The theory of evolution specifically isn't concerned with the origin of life or anything else, but there are plenty of theories and hypotheses that cover the origins of various things.

 

[mark kennedy]

-_- if that were the case, the abiogenesis hypothesis wouldn't have ever been made or tested. The theory of evolution specifically isn't concerned with the origin of life or anything else, but there are plenty of theories and hypotheses that cover the origins of various things.

I enjoy the fact that they test it, it's the lack of results that I find most interesting. Either the origin of life remains are a mystery never to be fathomed or the only other alternative is the only viable explanation.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

I enjoy the fact that they test it, it's the lack of results that I find most interesting. Either the origin of life remains are a mystery never to be fathomed or the only other alternative is the only viable explanation.

well, there is no scientific alternative. How could no other scientific alternative be a viable answer?

 

[mark kennedy]

well, there is no scientific alternative. How could no other scientific alternative be a viable answer?

God creates life and evolution starts there, it's not rocket science.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Ahh, Yes! That's that 'Special' Science, right?

I am talking about the Science of Frances Collins the leading expert on DNA. I may not believe everything he believes but he is a lot more qualified then I am so I defer to him.

'God Is Not Threatened by Our Scientific Adventures'

The Question of God . Other Voices . Francis Collins | PBS

 

[joshua 1 9]

God creates life and evolution starts there, it's not rocket science.

I believe God preserved the fossil evidence for us so that we could see how He created the world that we live in. We know a LOT more today than we did 500 years ago. Yet science comes from the Bible, even the 32 verses in the first chapter of the Bible.

 

[Astrophile]

Can you answer my question or not? Are you going to go to heaven? It is a wonderful place. Lots better than this world that Satan has made a mess out of with wars and violence. This world is soon going to be restored. The Lion and the Lamb will lie down together. There will be no more war and all of creation will be in harmony. No more fights, arguments or contentions between God and the Devil.

How do you know this? If, as you say, Satan has made a mess of this world with wars and violence, what is there to stop him from making a similar mess of the restored world? If you say that God is more powerful than Satan and that He will thwart Satan's attempts to ruin the restored world, why hasn't He already defeated Satan in this world?

 

[joshua 1 9]

what is there to stop him from making a similar mess of the restored world?

Christ Jesus defeated Satan at Calvary and He took all the power away from Satan. He took all of his adornment and He took the Keys: Rev 1:18 "I hold the keys of Death and of Hades". So the only power that Satan has is the power of deception and what people allow. He still rules over the demons but we have all the Angels to battle the demons.

During the 1,000 year reign of Christ Satan will be thrown into the Abyss where he will no longer be able to deceive the nations. Rev 20:3 "2 He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete.

Would you like to do a verse by verse study of this in the book of Revelations? Christians says: When the devil reminds them of their past, they remind the devil of his future. Along with all who followed him in his rebellion against God.

So the bottom line is whatever power the devil and his people have, there is exceedingly abundantly more power with God and the people of God. Only one third of the angels followed in the rebellion. So the demons are outnumbered two to one.

First the world was cleansed by water in the day of Noah and soon the world will be cleansed by fire. This world will be purged and purified and then a remnant will rebuild the earth for the next 1,000 years.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I enjoy the fact that they test it, it's the lack of results that I find most interesting. Either the origin of life remains are a mystery never to be fathomed or the only other alternative is the only viable explanation.

-_- protocells formed in an abiogenesis experiment in 2013

 

[mark kennedy]

-_- protocells formed in an abiogenesis experiment in 2013

Sure they were.

 

[Astrophile]

Christ Jesus defeated Satan at Calvary and He took all the power away from Satan.

So the only power that Satan has is the power of deception and what people allow. He still rules over the demons

So Christ Jesus has taken all Satan's power away, but Satan still has the power of deception, and he still rules over the demons. Don't you see that this is contradictory? Also, if Christ Jesus has taken all Satan's power away, why is the world in such a mess?

During the 1,000 year reign of Christ Satan will be thrown into the Abyss where he will no longer be able to deceive the nations.

Calvary was nearly 2000 years ago. Why hasn't Christ thrown Satan into the Abyss already and made him unable to deceive the nations?

So the bottom line is whatever power the devil and his people have, there is exceedingly abundantly more power with God and the people of God. Only one third of the angels followed in the rebellion. So the demons are outnumbered two to one.

Not a very convincing argument. Robert the Bruce was outnumbered two to one at Bannockburn; King Henry V was outnumbered about four to one at Agincourt. We all know how those battles ended.

First the world was cleansed by water in the day of Noah and soon the world will be cleansed by fire.

'Soon', you say. Christians have been predicting the imminent return of Jesus and the end of the world for nearly 2000 years. They've always been wrong, so why do you think that anybody should believe you when you say that the final cleansing will come soon?

Also, the flood didn't work. Noah celebrated his survival by getting drunk and lying around naked, and then imposing the abomination of slavery on the descendants of his son Ham. Noah's descendants hadn't learnt anything from the first cleansing; they angered God by trying to build a tower to reach up to heaven, so that he confused their languages, thereby providing a fruitful source of political and religious conflicts. Why do you think that the cleansing by fire will be any more successful?

This world will be purged and purified and then a remnant will rebuild the earth for the next 1,000 years.

So you say. But have you got any reason, other than passages from the Bible, to think that this will happen, and why have we had to wait nearly 2000 years for the purging and purification?

 

[joshua 1 9]

So Christ Jesus has taken all Satan's power away, but Satan still has the power of deception, and he still rules over the demons. Don't you see that this is contradictory? Also, if Christ Jesus has taken all Satan's power away, why is the world in such a mess?

IF you are an atheist then you do not have the mind of Christ. God does not give you the ability to be able to understand. So the real question should be why does God not want you to understand? Matthew 13:13 "This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand." What is interesting is that children do not have any trouble understanding. Matthew 18:3 "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Does this make any sense? No not at all. Why? Because the Bible is written as a parable and you have to be able to understand parables. This means: along side of or to compare. Some people use the word allegory. You can also use the word symbol. Like in chemistry they use symbols. Like the symbol for gold is AU. The symbol for silver is AG. So if I were to offer you AU & AG then you could says: "what"? Even though I am offering you vast riches you do not understand the meaning of the symbols. Yet a child can understand. The people that call the Bible a "fairy-tale" seem to understand the least of how we can take the lesson from the story and apply it to our lives.

Perhaps this is why chemistry is so difficult and so many people have trouble understanding chemistry.

 

[joshua 1 9]

'Soon', you say. Christians have been predicting the imminent return of Jesus and the end of the world for nearly 2000 years. They've always been wrong, so why do you think that anybody should believe you when you say that the final cleansing will come soon?

I do not care if anyone believes me or not, it really does not matter at all. I tend to be a dispensationalist. I believe the church age or the age of grace is 2,000 years in length. Although I do not know for sure that the rapture takes place at the end of the 2,000 years but as they day draws near I do know that LOTS of people will be selling books trying to prophet off of that date.

The question is: when was the day of pentacost. When was the Holy Spirit poured out on the church. The wise men knew exactly when and where Jesus was going to enter into the world and they were there to meet him. Actually, I get my date from Neil Degrasse Tyson and he happens to be agnostic. A comet will go over Jerusalem at the exact moment 2,000 years from when Jesus died at calvery then 7 years later the same comet goes over Jerusalem on the 2,000 date from when Jesus rose from the dead. For me there is just no way that could be a coincidence sense comets do not know the Hebrew calendar.

Luke says: "There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves" So this is the sort of sign we should be looking for. Neil Degrasse says there is a chance this could happen on that day in 2036. Although Nasa claims the chance of this happening on that date is very slim. As a Christian we are told to expect a 7 year tribulation period.

This last season people in California, Texas, Florida, & Puerto Rico are now believers in being Preppers and prepared for any disaster that may come their way. The Mormons have been teaching this for 100 years that we should be prepared and ready at all times. My brother lives in Tampa and he has a house that can handle 120 mph winds, so he is prepared and ready. The Bible says to prepare for the storms of life and build on a solid foundation. If you build on sand the storm will come and wash your house away.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Also, the flood didn't work.

The flood "works" just fine. All science comes from the Bible. We know a LOT more about science today than we did 500 years ago. Yet Bishop Usshers book written over 500 years ago is still accurate and true today. Even if people have trouble understanding how to interpret the Bible. The Bible remains steadfast and true if people understand or not.

Why do you think that the cleansing by fire will be any more successful?

2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."

Because fire purifies more then water does. For over 50 years now the world as we know it could be gone in an hour. Trump carries what they call the nuclear football. He never goes anywhere without the codes needed to destroy the world. In china the guy with that briefcase ran into a "scuffle".

US and China reportedly scuffled over nuclear 'football' during Trump's Beijing visit

I could address the points you brought up if you want, but they were not stated as a question so I do not know if you want me to talk about them or not.

 

[Astrophile]

IF you are an atheist then you do not have the mind of Christ. God does not give you the ability to be able to understand. So the real question should be why does God not want you to understand? Matthew 13:13 "This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand." What is interesting is that children do not have any trouble understanding. Matthew 18:3 "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

If God does not give me the ability to understand, He can hardly blame me if I do not believe in Him. Also, children may believe everything that adults tell them, but that does not mean that they understand what they have been told. 1 Corinthians 13:11 'When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.'

Does this make any sense? No not at all. Why? Because the Bible is written as a parable and you have to be able to understand parables. This means: along side of or to compare. Some people use the word allegory.

The problem with parables is that their interpretation rests with the hearer, and that different hearers give them different interpretations. For example, what was Jesus's intended meaning in the parables of the unjust steward and of the wise and foolish virgins?

You can also use the word symbol. Like in chemistry they use symbols. Like the symbol for gold is AU. The symbol for silver is AG. So if I were to offer you AU & AG then you could says: "what"? Even though I am offering you vast riches you do not understand the meaning of the symbols. Yet a child can understand. The people that call the Bible a "fairy-tale" seem to understand the least of how we can take the lesson from the story and apply it to our lives.

The symbol for gold is Au and the symbol for silver is Ag, and I have known these symbols for nearly 60 years. I also know that the symbol for lead is Pb, and that in The Merchant of Venice the lead (Portia-Bassanio) casket turned out to be the right one.

Perhaps this is why chemistry is so difficult and so many people have trouble understanding chemistry.

No, it isn't; anybody who wants to can learn the symbols of the elements and commit them to memory in a week. Chemistry is difficult because of things like molecular structure and thermodynamics.