Arminianism is untenable

[Hammster]

Fitting your definition to your theology in order to prove that your definition is incorrect is permissible.



I deny it because your definition is wrong.

Yes or no: in Arminianism, did Jesus take the punishment of sin for all people?

 

[janxharris]

Yes or no: in Arminianism, did Jesus take the punishment of sin for all people?

Hebrews 2:9

 

[janxharris]

Here's a few popular ones.

So Moses made a bronze snake and mounted it on a pole. Whenever someone was bitten, and he looked at the bronze snake, he recovered. ([bless and do not curse]Numbers‬ [bless and do not curse]21‬:[bless and do not curse]9‬ HCSB)

And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. ([bless and do not curse]Numbers‬ [bless and do not curse]21‬:[bless and do not curse]9‬ NASB)

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. ([bless and do not curse]Numbers‬ [bless and do not curse]21‬:[bless and do not curse]9‬ KJV)

So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived. ([bless and do not curse]Numbers‬ [bless and do not curse]21‬:[bless and do not curse]9‬ NIV)

And if anyone was bitten and did not look, they died. Your definition of the atonement does not fit.

 

[Hammster]

Hebrews 2:9

That wasn't an answer.

Yes or no: in Arminianism, did Jesus take the punishment of sin for all people?

 

[Hammster]

And if anyone was bitten and did not look, they died. Your definition of the atonement does not fit.

Which version are you using that states that?

 

[janxharris]

That wasn't an answer.

Yes or no: in Arminianism, did Jesus take the punishment of sin for all people?

John 1:29, John 3:14-16, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 1:15, 1 Timothy 2:4-6, 1 Timothy 4:10, Titus 2:11, Hebrews 2:9, Romans 5:6.

Your explicit scripture that say that Jesus died for less than all are?

 

[janxharris]

Which version are you using that states that?

Since there is no verse that explicitly says all looked, then it is a fair assumption. Even if all did look, the option not to look was there.

Since all men equate to snake-bitten Israelites, then all are offered the equivalent of the raised bronze serpent; all may believe and look, just like the Israelites. The correlation between the source and target is incontrovertible.

 

[Hammster]

John 1:29, John 3:14-16, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 1:15, 1 Timothy 2:4-6, 1 Timothy 4:10, Titus 2:11, Hebrews 2:9, Romans 5:6.

Your explicit scripture that say that Jesus died for less than all are?

Why are you not answering the question?

Yes or no: in Arminianism, did Jesus take the punishment of sin for all people?

 

[Hammster]

Since there is no verse that explicitly says all looked, then it is a fair assumption. Even if all did look, the option not to look was there.

Since all men equate to snake-bitten Israelites, then all are offered the equivalent of the raised bronze serpent; all may believe and look, just like the Israelites. The correlation between the source and target is incontrovertible.

So even though I've provided multiple versions that said that all who were bit did look, you are going to ignore it for no other reason than it doesn't for with your theology.

 

[janxharris]

Why are you not answering the question?

Yes or no: in Arminianism, did Jesus take the punishment of sin for all people?

Because neither of us has defined what is meant...but, yes, Jesus died for all.

 

[janxharris]

So even though I've provided multiple versions that said that all who were bit did look, you are going to ignore it for no other reason than it doesn't for with your theology.

They don't say what you claim.

 

[Hammster]

Because neither of us has defined what is meant...but, yes, Jesus died for all.

I did define what I meant. Did He take the punishment for sin for all people?

 

[Hammster]

They don't say what you claim.

I claim that those who were bitten looked and lived.

So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.

You claim that's not true. Let me post the verse you use to prove it.

 

[EmSw]

I did define what I meant. Did He take the punishment for sin for all people?

Hammster, I was wondering what you think that punishment is.

 

[Hammster]

Hammster, I was wondering what you think that punishment is.

Not the topic.

 

[EmSw]

Not the topic.

Then why did you mention it? Besides you asked Janx about it.

 

[Hammster]

Then why did you mention it? Besides you asked Janx about it.

His view (Arminianism) is the topic.

 

[EmSw]

His view (Arminianism) is the topic.

Then I suggest you not mention it again.

 

[Hammster]

Then I suggest you not mention it again.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[EmSw]

Thanks for the suggestion.

No problem.