Armegeddon/Gog-Magog same event?

[LastSeven]

Does anybody here really think that the last battle is a physical battle?

 

[BABerean2]

Does anybody here really think that the last battle is a physical battle?

I have tried to imagine tanks and planes or even nuclear weapons lined up in opposition to the Son of the Living God and His Holy angels.

Mat_26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

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Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;


Gen 19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
Gen 19:27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
Gen 19:28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.


Do a little research on how many soldiers were in a legion.

For some reason it does not compute in my small, simple-minded brain.

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[Interplanner]

If you're referring to what happens at the end of the current reign of Christ, there seems to be some physicality to it: Rev 20:9. But of course the people of God are all throughout the world.

 

[Midst]

Does anybody here really think that the last battle is a physical battle?

It is possible it starts out that way.

 

[Interplanner]

If it is not physical, then you have this distinct possibility: the whole world is mad at God because he's not doing anything in Jerusalem, but instead the new Jerusalem above , which is the city he loves.

Ie, an interesting poll would be: is the city he loves in Rev 20 that strife-torn city on eastern steppes of the Medit. Sea, or is it the believers/the church?

 

[LastSeven]

Revelation 20:9
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them

Let's use some common sense here. Are all the Christians of the world going to be gathered in a single city at some point in time, that we can be physically surrounded?

Or do you think it is the Jesus hating Jews that are God's people?

For that passage to be describing a physical battle, one of those two has to be true.

 

[LastSeven]

Deleted, duplicate post.

 

[Interplanner]

You didn't grasp the idea of the city. It isn't physical. The language is a description of hatred, prejudice, possibly legislation against Christians, but they are in places all around the world in this age, the reign of Christ.

 

[LastSeven]

That's exactly my point. None of this is physical. It doesn't make sense if you think of this as a physical battle in a physical city.

Christians are not all going to be gathered in one city at some point in time. That's a ridiculous notion. And the Jews are certainly not God's people. That's even more ridiculous.

The battle of Armageddon has already started, and it is a battle for the souls of the people. As Christians we are being spiritually surrounded by the world. Atheism is growing and Christianity is shrinking. Anti-Christian principles are already being taught in our schools as God is being removed from every facet of our public lives and soon, even our personal lives won't be off limits.

The battle is on right now, and our victory will be not by magic fire from heaven because we fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers, but the fire described in Revelation is representative of Jesus himself, who is the word of God, which is the truth and it is the truth that sets us free from sin and it is the truth that will save us from the persecution in this world, and it is the truth that will give us the victory.

None of this is physical.

 

[Interplanner]

great

 

[shturt678s]

Compared to decades ago...in the Churches...Satan could very well be personally loosed and the HarMagedon could very well be coming to pass?

Old Jack's opinion

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Compared to decades ago...in the Churches...Satan could very well be personally loosed and the HarMagedon could very well be coming to pass?

Old Jack's opinion

They are both a "gathering together".
Notice the similarity between Ezekiel 22 and the destruction of Jerusalem as described by Josephus.
The fires were so hot that even metals were melted. Imagine what it would have done to the Jews that were caught in it........

Ezekiel 22:
17 Then the word of the Lord came to me:
18 "Son of man, the people of Israel have become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace.
They are but the dross of silver.
19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
‘Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem.
20 As silver, copper, iron, lead and tin are gathered into a furnace to be melted with a fiery blast,
so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you.
21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her.
22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her,
and you will know that I the Lord have poured out my wrath on you.’"


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover...........

The City was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance
　
The magnificent Temple that Herod had built was completely destroyed as the fires raged inside and out.
These fires were so hot that the gold fittings, and the gold gilding inside and on it's outside walls melted and ran into the cracks between and in the stones.

During the pillaging of the Temple these stones were broken up to get at the gold.
Therefore, fulfilling Jesus' prophecy that no stone would be left on another—the destruction was total, just as Jesus foretold.



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[shturt678s]

They are both a "gathering together".
Notice the similarity between Ezekiel 22 and the destruction of Jerusalem as described by Josephus.
The fires were so hot that even metals were melted. Imagine what it would have done to the Jews that were caught in it........

Hmmmm...let's eyeball Rev.20:7 together. Rev.20:7, ...shall go out to deceive...to gather them together..." This is the last deception: four corners of the earth "for the battle." In Rev.16:13-16 we have already seen (you and me together) a part of this deception, the 3 frogs persuading all the kings to gather together for the battle at Armageddon.

The dragon is significantly shown there with the two beasts who emit these frogeeeees...this is the climax of deception, ie, "Partial preterism" or "Amill." as myself?....one or the other unfortunately...not both. We'll find out when we pass on my brother....Absolute deception is required to plunge into this absolute deception, correct? Now let's eyeball one of my favorites, Ezek.22, together...first and foremost, I'm no doubt in error as I'm of a pretty low paygrade even with my recent paygrade increase, however let an old non-modern Lutheran enjoy himself before he croaks.

Ezekiel 22:
17 Then the word of the Lord came to me:
18 "Son of man, the people of Israel have become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace.
They are but the dross of silver.
19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
‘Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem.
20 As silver, copper, iron, lead and tin are gathered into a furnace to be melted with a fiery blast,
so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you.
21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her.
22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her,
and you will know that I the Lord have poured out my wrath on you.’"

The ol' seige routine awating Jerusalem...waaay back there.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover...........

The City was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance
　
The magnificent Temple that Herod had built was completely destroyed as the fires raged inside and out.
These fires were so hot that the gold fittings, and the gold gilding inside and on it's outside walls melted and ran into the cracks between and in the stones.

During the pillaging of the Temple these stones were broken up to get at the gold.
Therefore, fulfilling Jesus' prophecy that no stone would be left on another—the destruction was total, just as Jesus foretold.



.


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Only bottom of the rung Jack's opinion

 

[LastSeven]

Just as the old Jerusalem was physically surrounded by physical armies to end put an end to the age of the Jews, so the new Jerusalem is being spiritually surrounded to end the age of Christ, the thousand years.

The difference is, the first Jerusalem was physical and the new Jerusalem is spiritual, wherefore God destroyed the first Jerusalem with real fire, but he will save the new Jerusalem, with spiritual fire.

 

[BABerean2]

Just as the old Jerusalem was physically surrounded by physical armies to end put an end to the age of the Jews, so the new Jerusalem is being spiritually surrounded to end the age of Christ, the thousand years.

The difference is, the first Jerusalem was physical and the new Jerusalem is spiritual, wherefore God destroyed the first Jerusalem with real fire, but he will save the new Jerusalem, with spiritual fire.

The following verse about earthly Jerusalem does not paint a pretty picture.

Rev_11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


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[Danoh]

The following verse about earthly Jerusalem does not paint a pretty picture.

Rev_11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


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And with that the abundance of passages like Ezekiel 6 and 11 are thrown right out the window by such one passage reading into...

 

[Danoh]

Just as the old Jerusalem was physically surrounded by physical armies to end put an end to the age of the Jews, so the new Jerusalem is being spiritually surrounded to end the age of Christ, the thousand years.

The difference is, the first Jerusalem was physical and the new Jerusalem is spiritual, wherefore God destroyed the first Jerusalem with real fire, but he will save the new Jerusalem, with spiritual fire.

Actually, the thousand year reign then transitions into the fullness of times; of "world without end," or "ages to come."

 

[shturt678s]

And with that the abundance of passages like Ezekiel 6 and 11 are thrown right out the window by such one passage reading into...

All that Revelation borrows from the O.T. is used in an independent way.

Old Jack's opinion

BTW thus the O.T. passages do not govern the interpretation of passages in Revelation.

 

[LastSeven]

Actually, the thousand year reign then transitions into the fullness of times; of "world without end," or "ages to come."

You're talking about the new earth. Not sure why you started with the word "Actually" since that doesn't contradict what I said.

 

[BABerean2]

You're talking about the new earth. Not sure why you started with the word "Actually" since that doesn't contradict what I said.

It is Danoh's method of providing Life Support for his Mid-Acts version of Dispensational Theology.

As the truth about the origin of the doctrine is being spread, he must do everything in his power to keep his doctrine alive.

It mainly involves making negative comments about the posts of those who are of the opposite point of view.

He cannot even bring himself to admit there are problems with the book written by his hero, C.R. Stam. When someone points out the problems, he calls it a "Botch-Up" and tries to ignore it. Sometimes, reality is a hard pill to swallow.

Most of his posts provide heat, but not much light, to our discussion.