Armegeddon/Gog-Magog same event?

[Danoh]

You're talking about the new earth. Not sure why you started with the word "Actually" since that doesn't contradict what I said.

Was ADDING to your point, not posting against it. The "actually" was for those off.

 

[LastSeven]

Was ADDING to your point, not posting against it. The "actually" was for those off.

Cool.

 

[Danoh]

It is Danoh's method of providing Life Support for his Mid-Acts version of Dispensational Theology.

As the truth about the origin of the doctrine is being spread, he must do everything in his power to keep his doctrine alive.

It mainly involves making negative comments about the posts of those who are of the opposite point of view.

He cannot even bring himself to admit there are problems with the book written by his hero, C.R. Stam. When someone points out the problems, he calls it a "Botch-Up" and tries to ignore it. Sometimes, reality is a hard pill to swallow.

Most of his posts provide heat, but not much light, to our discussion.

Sorry BAB, but no cigar - I surpassed Stam years ago. And I'm not the only Mid-Actser who has, so that's no big accomplishment within Mid-Acts.

Just you going on about what you remain completely clueless about. I get my understanding on these things from Scripture studied objectively, not youtube videos and books about like you.

You guys can't even see that that teenager, Margaret McDonald was not Pre-Trib - more like Pre-Wrath or Post Trib.

And her "visions" or whatever self-delusion they were, were inspired by her understanding of Scripture as she understood it.

I am Cessasionist, thus, you'll have to shove your nonsense about what ever you believe influenced her obvious self-delusion down some other fool's mind.

"The truth is coming out" - give me a break - you actually asserted some guy was qualified because he is a Jewish Christian! Interplanner does the same thing.

What nonsense - that which is perfect has come - there is no one special outside of time in the Word.

Yeah, I know, outside of youtube and Lacunza notions - a guy who's supposed defence of the RCC was condemned by the RCC.

Okay, I'm done - you're turn - but take a chill pill - no need to take you're being wrong so serious, lol

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hmmmm...let's eyeball Rev.20:7 together. Rev.20:7, ...shall go out to deceive...to gather them together..." This is the last deception: four corners of the earth "for the battle." In Rev.16:13-16 we have already seen (you and me together) a part of this deception, the 3 frogs persuading all the kings to gather together for the battle at Armageddon.

The dragon is significantly shown there with the two beasts who emit these frogeeeees...this is the climax of deception, ie, "Partial preterism" or "Amill." as myself?....one or the other unfortunately...not both. We'll find out when we pass on my brother....Absolute deception is required to plunge into this absolute deception, correct? Now let's eyeball one of my favorites, Ezek.22, together...first and foremost, I'm no doubt in error as I'm of a pretty low paygrade even with my recent paygrade increase, however let an old non-modern Lutheran enjoy himself before he croaks.

The ol' seige routine awating Jerusalem...waaay back there.


Only bottom of the rung Jack's opinion

Thks for your post.
"bottom of the rung"? Your opinion is just as valued as anyone else's here.........

 

[Straightshot]

My comment

Ezekiel's account .... the invader comes from the north

Revelation's account .... invaders come from all directions

Ezekiel's account .... Israel's enemies become bird food and the land must be cleansed

Revelation's account .... Israel's enemies are zapped with fire .... no cleaning necessary

Two different invasions 1000 years apart

Satan is the instigator of both

 

[LastSeven]

The slight difference between those descriptions are meaningless if they are all symbolic, because you can evoke the same imagery with different symbols. And that's especially obvious when you realize that Armageddon is a spiritual battle, not a physical one.

We are already being spiritually surrounded. Atheism and false religion are on the rise, while Christianity is in decline. Societal norms and accepted moralities are increasingly contradicting the word of God. This is the battle we face, and when the enemy appears to be ready to strike the final fatal blow against the truth, that's when God will step in.

No sense trying to interpret Revelation with literalism, because nothing will ever match.

 

[Straightshot]

"No sense trying to interpret Revelation with literalism, because nothing will ever match"


This is the reason why you make your error

The Lord has not given a Revelation that makes no sense as you say [Revelation 1:1-3; 1:11-19]

All literal .... even the symbolism has literal definition, if one is not to lazy to investigate and or spiritually blinded

So you seem to be "striking"?

 

[Dave Watchman]

I'm no doubt in error as I'm of a pretty low paygrade even with my recent paygrade increase, however let an old non-modern Lutheran enjoy himself before he croaks.

Old Jack, You must be one of those guys who are humble and contrite in spirit. I liked you right away even though I didn't understand or agree with your eschatology.

See Ya Soon

Thks for your post.
"bottom of the rung"? Your opinion is just as valued as anyone else's here.........

Hi LLoJ, and welcome back.

 

[Dave Watchman]

This is the battle we face, and when the enemy appears to be ready to strike the final fatal blow against the truth, that's when God will step in.

Where'd you get that one from?

Dan.l 12:11?

"the daily sacrifice shall be taken away"​

Rev. 11:15 ?

"for you have taken your great power
and begun to reign"​

Rev. 20:10?

"and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"​

 

[LastSeven]

Where'd you get that one from?

Dan.l 12:11?

"the daily sacrifice shall be taken away"​

Rev. 11:15 ?

"for you have taken your great power
and begun to reign"​

Rev. 20:10?

"and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"​

Where did I get that one from? I'm glad you asked.

Revelation 20:9
They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

This is not a literal event, as Christians will never all gather in one place on earth that we can be physically surrounded, nor do we fight against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers. Our kingdom is not one with high walls, guard towers and weapons. Therefore, this is symbolism for a spiritual battle that we are now losing.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Revelation 20:9
They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
This is not a literal event, as Christians will never all gather in one place on earth that we can be physically surrounded, nor do we fight against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers. Our kingdom is not one with high walls, guard towers and weapons. Therefore, this is symbolism for a spiritual battle that we are now losing.

It doesn't look like the Christians on this forum would be too comfortable gathering together in one place.

Rev. 20:9 will be a literal event, just as literal as a heart attack. Even though it's more than 1000 years away, it'll seem like this conversation was just a minute ago. Sometime during that 1000 years prior to Revelation 20:9, I'm gonna come and find you in the New Jerusalem. And I'm gonna say: "I told you so Vincent, I believed while still in the flesh".

I think that humanity underestimates the capability of God. I read somewhere that scientists say that the New Jerusalem at it's stated measurements could never be a cube, they claim that the law of gravity would force it into a sphere. I believe that 250 million years from now on an Earth made new, that Jesus could reach back through time and get my cat Daisey back for me. As long as it was not in violation of the Father's will.

I Googled "New Jerusalem in the moon"​

https://robtdwilson.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/the-size-of-new-jerusalem-vs-the-moon/

The diameter of New Jerusalem is 2,390.54 miles.

The diameter of the Moon is only 2,160 miles.

Therefore if you shaved off the roundness of our moon to make it a cube, it would be SMALLER than the City of God. The diameter of New Jerusalem is 230.54 miles LARGER!

This amazing difference is multiplied even more when you realize that, New Jerusalem is NOT a planet or moon, so we don’t live OUTSIDE on its surface, but in layers upon golden layers on the INSIDE.

What is the actual volume of the inside of that Heavenly Cube, which will some day be our Home?
To find this we need to multiply the length, width and height, so:
1,3803 = 2,628,072,000 cubic miles.

My friend, that is over 2.6 Billion [with a “B”] cubic miles of glorious space, where the Lamb is the Light and no sin or shadow of darkness can enter and crying and sickness and pain and death will never even be thought about! That is room for a <<LOT>> of “mansions” [and quite a few bungalows, as well.]

Imagine what the reaction would be on earth if this glowing planet suddenly appeared in the sky above everyone’s heads. To borrow an illustration from scifi’s Star Trek: The sheer size of this "space craft" would make a "Borg Cube" appear less threatening that a rubber ducky floating in a lukewarm bathtub! I believe that it DOES show up at the end of the Tribulation time, at the same time as Christ appears: no wonder all of the rebellious peoples of earth flee to the caves and beg the rocks to fall on them to hide them from the face of Him who sits on the throne!

Revelations 6:15-17 "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

And where is that "Throne" located??? I think in New Jerusalem.

"In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also"​

 

[Straightshot]

The new Jerusalem a cube ? .... yes

Is there anything that He cannot do? If He wills it .... no

The Lord is inventive .... who would deny?

.... and your cat ....if you want your cat to be there .... your cat will be there [Romans 8:18-23]

 

[LastSeven]

Dave, do you really think Christians will fight a physical battle against the rest of the people on earth?

 

[Berean777]

God regards the daily sacrifice as the atonement for sins once and for all on the cross at Calvary. The only way I see that being removed from a spiritual aspect is if people actually no longer looked up to the cross for their redemption. Taken away seems to me that it is no longer an option and this leads me to believe that the world is tricked into believing in a manifested earthly messiah who basically does away with the cross. Just as the Muslims believe that when Jesus comes back he is going to do away with the cross. To the Jews he will be their messiah coming for the very first time, for the Christians since he is manifested in physical form, he becomes the focus and not the cross for the redemption of sin.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Berean777]

Why would the church go to heaven then come back to earth?

 

[Dave Watchman]

God regards the daily sacrifice as the atonement for sins once and for all on the cross at Calvary. The only way I see that being removed from a spiritual aspect is if people actually no longer looked up to the cross for their redemption. Taken away seems to me that it is no longer an option and this leads me to believe that the world is tricked into believing in a manifested earthly messiah who basically does away with the cross. Just as the Muslims believe that when Jesus comes back he is going to do away with the cross. To the Jews he will be their messiah coming for the very first time, for the Christians since he is manifested in physical form, he becomes the focus and not the cross for the redemption of sin.

from: (not always used to specify a starting point)

Pick # 3.
(used to express removal or separation, as in space, time, or order):
two miles from shore; 30 minutes from now; from one page to the next;
from the back of the book, work your way forward;

"And one said to the man clothed in linen,
which was upon the waters of the river,
How long shall it be to the End of these wonders?"

"And I heard, but I understood not: then said I,
O my Lord, what shall be the End of these things?"

And from the time that the Daily sacrifice shall be taken away, (D)
and the Abomination that maketh desolate set up, (A)
there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.(E)

A<30>D<------------1260------------>E

Assuming that Dan 12:11 is an answer to the question "How long shall it be to the End of these wonders?"

Could it be that the vocabulary of Daniel begins with the starting point (D) of the Time,Times and 1/2 Time (1260 days). From that point measure back in time 30 days and the mention of the AofD, where then the measurement of the 1290 days begins and then concludes with "the end of these things". This scenario would allow the AofD to be "the days of Lot" and would also satisfy scripture by terminating the 1260 days with the sun being darkened and the moon not giving her light.

A guy told me that the word "sacrifice" was inserted by the King James translators. The original Hebrew just reads "the daily". The thing that Seven was talking about, "when God will step in", happens next when "the daily" is taken away. The taking away of the daily is a big event like Calvary is big, like the days of Noah was big, like the days of Lot, and the end of the world. It's a line of demarcation that ends 6000 years of our Restrainer standing in the way, which would have began on the very day that Adam sinned. Anyways, this is a much bigger event than any sacrifice in any rebuilt temple made with human hands. I believe that the taking away of the daily can be found at Matt. 24:7 and Rev.8:5 and is talking about a daily service in Heaven's Temple at the alter of incense. This will be signified by the first of three global earthquakes during our appointed time of the end.

God told Moses to make sure he built the temple exactly according to the plan He gave. Paul mentioned this too, the earthly temple was just a copy and shadow of the real one in Heaven. So if the Jerusalem temple had an alter of burnt offering and an alter of incense, Heaven's Temple has to have them too. Keep in mind that the alter of burnt offering WAS used for individual atonement. The alter of incense is used for corporate atonement, for the sins of the whole camp or the whole world. When that curtain was rent our individual atonement for sin was taken care of once and for all. But there's an additional specification relating to the second alter that the final generation has to worry about. This might be the reason why Jesus warned us to head for the hills when we see the AofD. As long as that angel in Revelation 8 has got the censer in his hand he is able to do "the daily" in Heaven's Temple.(the censer is used at the alter of incense)

"Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake"​

No more censer = the taking away of the daily = God's wrath breaks out like it might have on the day that Adam sinned and then we feast on a banquet of trumpets. All of this amounts to our Restrainer being taken out of the way.

Now the Bible never tells us this but I highly doubt that fiery hail is going to rain down from God randomly and burn up Aunt Martha's farm in the country but leave downtown sodomite city unscathed. I bet it's gonna be just the opposite.

As of last weekend my current chronology, which will change after this coming weekend, has the tribulation begin with the AofD, then 30 days latter The Daily is taken away, then 1260 days latter Armageddon and then 1000 years until the White Throne Judgment Day when we see the GOG Event.

(we only notice the trib begin when "the daily" is taken away because there's going to be peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake)


A<30>D<----1260---->ARM<----------1000---------->GOG
(not drawn to scale)

Just like in the days of Lot they won't be expecting it. But also just like in those days they were living at a time just prior to a huge outpouring of God's wrath in the form of fire from the sky.

"and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up"​

From:
1.
(used to specify a starting point in spatial movement):
a train running west from Chicago.
2.
(used to specify a starting point in an expression of limits):
The number of stores will be increased from 25 to 30.
3.
(used to express removal or separation, as in space, time, or order):
two miles from shore; 30 minutes from now; from one page to the next.
4.
(used to express discrimination or distinction):
to be excluded from membership; to differ from one's father.
5.
(used to indicate source or origin):
to come from the Midwest; to take a pencil from one's pocket.
6.
(used to indicate agent or instrumentality):
death from starvation.
7.
(used to indicate cause or reason):
From the evidence, he must be guilty.

 

[Berean777]

from: (not always used to specify a starting point)

Pick # 3.
(used to express removal or separation, as in space, time, or order):
two miles from shore; 30 minutes from now; from one page to the next;
from the back of the book, work your way forward;

"And one said to the man clothed in linen,
which was upon the waters of the river,
How long shall it be to the End of these wonders?"

"And I heard, but I understood not: then said I,
O my Lord, what shall be the End of these things?"

And from the time that the Daily sacrifice shall be taken away, (D)
and the Abomination that maketh desolate set up, (A)
there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.(E)

A<30>D<------------1260------------>E

Assuming that Dan 12:11 is an answer to the question "How long shall it be to the End of these wonders?"

Could it be that the vocabulary of Daniel begins with the starting point (D) of the Time,Times and 1/2 Time (1260 days). From that point measure back in time 30 days and the mention of the AofD, where then the measurement of the 1290 days begins and then concludes with "the end of these things". This scenario would allow the AofD to be "the days of Lot" and would also satisfy scripture by terminating the 1260 days with the sun being darkened and the moon not giving her light.

A guy told me that the word "sacrifice" was inserted by the King James translators. The original Hebrew just reads "the daily". The thing that Seven was talking about, "when God will step in", happens next when "the daily" is taken away. The taking away of the daily is a big event like Calvary is big, like the days of Noah was big, like the days of Lot, and the end of the world. It's a line of demarcation that ends 6000 years of our Restrainer standing in the way, which would have began on the very day that Adam sinned. Anyways, this is a much bigger event than any sacrifice in any rebuilt temple made with human hands. I believe that the taking away of the daily can be found at Matt. 24:7 and Rev.8:5 and is talking about a daily service in Heaven's Temple at the alter of incense. This will be signified by the first of three global earthquakes during our appointed time of the end.

God told Moses to make sure he built the temple exactly according to the plan He gave. Paul mentioned this too, the earthly temple was just a copy and shadow of the real one in Heaven. So if the Jerusalem temple had an alter of burnt offering and an alter of incense, Heaven's Temple has to have them too. Keep in mind that the alter of burnt offering WAS used for individual atonement. The alter of incense is used for corporate atonement, for the sins of the whole camp or the whole world. When that curtain was rent our individual atonement for sin was taken care of once and for all. But there's an additional specification relating to the second alter that the final generation has to worry about. This might be the reason why Jesus warned us to head for the hills when we see the AofD. As long as that angel in Revelation 8 has got the censer in his hand he is able to do "the daily" in Heaven's Temple.(the censer is used at the alter of incense)

"Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake"​

No more censer = the taking away of the daily = God's wrath breaks out like it might have on the day that Adam sinned and then we feast on a banquet of trumpets. All of this amounts to our Restrainer being taken out of the way.

Now the Bible never tells us this but I highly doubt that fiery hail is going to rain down from God randomly and burn up Aunt Martha's farm in the country but leave downtown sodomite city unscathed. I bet it's gonna be just the opposite.

As of last weekend my current chronology, which will change after this coming weekend, has the tribulation begin with the AofD, then 30 days latter The Daily is taken away, then 1260 days latter Armageddon and then 1000 years until the White Throne Judgment Day when we see the GOG Event.

(we only notice the trib begin when "the daily" is taken away because there's going to be peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake)


A<30>D<----1260---->ARM<----------1000---------->GOG
(not drawn to scale)

Just like in the days of Lot they won't be expecting it. But also just like in those days they were living at a time just prior to a huge outpouring of God's wrath in the form of fire from the sky.

"and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up"​

From:
1.
(used to specify a starting point in spatial movement):
a train running west from Chicago.
2.
(used to specify a starting point in an expression of limits):
The number of stores will be increased from 25 to 30.
3.
(used to express removal or separation, as in space, time, or order):
two miles from shore; 30 minutes from now; from one page to the next.
4.
(used to express discrimination or distinction):
to be excluded from membership; to differ from one's father.
5.
(used to indicate source or origin):
to come from the Midwest; to take a pencil from one's pocket.
6.
(used to indicate agent or instrumentality):
death from starvation.
7.
(used to indicate cause or reason):
From the evidence, he must be guilty.

I want to thank you for edifying your brother. I immediately saw the Lord pointing me to what you had written and this was the clue:

As long as that angel in Revelation 8 has got the censer in his hand he is able to do "the daily" in Heaven's Temple.(the censer is used at the alter of incense)

"Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake"​

No more censer = the taking away of the daily = God's wrath breaks out like it might have on the day that Adam sinned and then we feast on a banquet of trumpets. All of this amounts to our Restrainer being taken out of the way.

Did you realise that Moses was a symbol of the high priest who went up to the mount to minister on behalf of his crowd, the Israelites. When he had come down after 40 days he saw that the Israelites had built onto themselves a golden calf/altar which they started to worship. Then Moses threw the censer filled with fire which symbolised the fire that God used to write the Ten Commandments, resulting in the immediate earthquake. The Ten Commandments was the Israelites atonement, their daily sacrifice so to speak and when Moses as the symbol of the high priest (Christ like) dropped the censer then judgment followed immediately after the earthquake.

The parallel here is that in the new covenant age our daily sacrifice is the censor that our chief priest Christ Jesus holds in heaven as he ministers on our behaves and when he throws this censer as Moses did to the Israelites. Then it falls in the form of condemnation upon the inhabitants of the world who accepted the abomination that maketh desolate in their hearts. An earthly manifested messiah would do the trick only once the world believes the lie and abandons the all atoning commandments that is the redemptive work of the cross.

A manifested messiah believed by the world will be the same scenario as Moses throwing the law book at the Israelites in which this world will be plunged into the mosaic curses.

 

[BABerean2]

They are the same event described in different language, just like two people witnessing the same automobile accident.


Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Gog

.

 

[Dave Watchman]

They are the same event described in different language, just like two people witnessing the same automobile accident.
googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1431698694306-1'); });

Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Gog

OK Bab, I understand that if you're Amil you think that the 1000 years is fake. But if the 1000 years are for real, these are two different events separated by 1000 real years.

So you must think the first resurrection is 1000 years before the second coming?

Armageddon happens just before the second coming right?

At the 6th vial the the 3 frog demons come out of the mouth of the false prophet and go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for the battle of Armageddon. After the 7th vial that show's over right? We are resurrected and begin the 1000 years, I don't know what the Amils will be doing.

Rev.20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Rev20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle;​

1.the first resurrection!

2.reign with him for a thousand years

3.Satan will be released from his prison

4.deceive the nations

5.Gog and Magog, go to battle