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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
There are two first beasts and two false prophets.
The original 1st beast and and false prophet that persecuted the 1st century church.
The revived 1st beast and lamb/Christ like second beast who persecutes the world.
John was familiar with the original 1st beast and the false prophet, but the revived 1st beast and Christ like second beast (mystery Babylon religious harlot) was a complete mystery to him, it was an unknown quantity to John. It requires an angel to spell out who these two NEW players were, because they were in the future passed the initial destruction of the 1st beast.
The original 1st beast and and false prophet that persecuted the 1st century church.
The revived 1st beast and lamb/Christ like second beast who persecutes the world.
John was familiar with the original 1st beast and the false prophet, but the revived 1st beast and Christ like second beast (mystery Babylon religious harlot) was a complete mystery to him, it was an unknown quantity to John. It requires an angel to spell out who these two NEW players were, because they were in the future passed the initial destruction of the 1st beast.
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Amillennial is really not an accurate term, even though I accept it.
It means "no millennium".
I believe that the 1,000 year period is symbolic and is equal to the time between Christ's first Coming and His future Second Coming.
1.the first resurrection! = When you accepted Christ, you were born again. Before that you were spiritually dead.
2.reign with him for a thousand years = The whole Church Age. The "souls" of the martyrs are now with Christ.
3.Satan will be released from his prison = The beast being released from the pit. We know some of the wicked angels have been chained.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
4.deceive the nations = The Globalist System that is being set up at the present time.
5.Gog and Magog, go to battle = The battle of Armageddon
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Yes and please also consider that the battle of Armageddon has two distinct players to those mentioned in the Battle of Gog and Magog.
The 1st beast comes up out of the SEA OF PEOPLES where the craddle of civilisation is symbolised by the river Euphrates. The revived 1st beast and harlot (second lamb like beast) comes out of the earth in the wilderness, meaning newly discovered continents that are outside of the Middle Eastern Region.
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WOW, I had no idea we we are so far apart in an understanding of this stuff. It makes more sense now, for a time there I just thought you weren't too good at comprehension.
I see the first resurrection as a real supernatural event. This would be about the greatest event in an individuals lifetime. It's the thing Paul was talking about where the dead come out of the ground first and then we who are living are changed. How the Lord reassembles dust back into a body, I have no idea. I'm sure that He can reach back through time if need be but I have a hunch He can just command it to be. Even if our bones are on the bottom of the sea. I KNOW that it's really going to happen.
Man I'm sorry Bab, I never really investigated the details of the Amillenialist. It makes me kind of sad like what Paul was saying about having no hope. See, this has to be why God must have went into so much detail explaining the physical dimensions of New Jerusalem. He must have wanted us to know that we're not just going to be invisible spirits floating around in clouds.
Remember how Jesus interacted with His disciples during the 40 days after He was resurrected? They touched His scars and ate with Him. He had a physical body but seemed to be able to alter his appearance to the point where they didn't always recognize Him. But then when it came time to go He just took off in a cloud.
Anyways Bab don't worry, It's going to work out fine.
“What no eye has seen,
nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”
nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”
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I agree 100%, except I see the first resurrection in Rev. chapter 20 as your spiritual resurrection and the resurrection of the body comes later when the Book of Life is read.
When you accepted Christ it was a real, supernatural event, also.
You were resurrected from the dead. You passed from death to life.
Php_4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Present tense. This is your first resurrection when you were Born-Again by accepting Christ. It has already happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
This is the future bodily resurrection of the dead that occurs when the Book of Life is read. And yes this real body will be able to eat and drink, just as Jesus did after His resurrection.
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Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev_21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
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"Armageddon and Gog are not the same times.
Gog people slay each other"
Ezekiel 39 is the battle of Armageddon .....and it is the Lord who will slay .... even to the extent that He will cause Israel's Muslim enemies to turn on themselves during the battle [Joel 2; 3; Micah 5:5-6; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]
This kind of behavior is intrinsic in the Muslim psyche .... in case you haven't noticed
Gog people slay each other"
Ezekiel 39 is the battle of Armageddon .....and it is the Lord who will slay .... even to the extent that He will cause Israel's Muslim enemies to turn on themselves during the battle [Joel 2; 3; Micah 5:5-6; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]
This kind of behavior is intrinsic in the Muslim psyche .... in case you haven't noticed
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Take a serious look at the article below, when you have some time to consider it.
Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?
http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Gog
When two people witness the same automobile accident and give their independent story of the event to the authorities, they will not always give the same details and describe the event in the same language.
In the different Gospel accounts of the women at the empty tomb, the details are not the same.
This is also true for the day Jesus was crucified.
The different accounts of the event are not the same, although Jesus was crucified only one time.
A difference in details does not always mean it is a different event.
There are more similarities between the Gog/Magog event and the battle of Armageddon, than there are differences in the details.
The following is the conclusion from the article in the link above.
CONCLUSION
Despite what some teach about the battle of Gog/Magog, the Bible makes it clear that this conflict is the same one popularly called the "battle of Armageddon" in the book of Revelation. Both Ezekiel and Revelation record that this battle will feature an earthquake which will level the mountains and collapse all the cities of the world. They both state that huge hailstones will fall from the sky on the attackers. Both Ezekiel and Revelation show that the attackers who march against Israel will be slain in great numbers and become food for scavenger birds. By comparing the similar points of the two prophecies, it is clear that these two prophecies are different descriptions of the same event. Therefore, we can be certain that the battle of Gog/Magog–Armageddon is the final major rebellion of the nations against God before the start of the Millennium.
Bryan T. Huie
September 1, 2007
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Armageddon first [before the millennial kingdom] .... then the next human rebellion 1000 years later upon Satan's release from the abyss at the ending of the millennial kingdom [Revelation 19:11-21; 20:1-3]
Bird food and cleaning by Israel ending the first .... no bird food, no cleaning necessary for the next .... just fire
Bird food and cleaning by Israel ending the first .... no bird food, no cleaning necessary for the next .... just fire
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Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
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I'm not disputing the verses you've chosen. Is it impossible to consider that Daniel and John at the times of these writings were not aware of the detail of Revelation 20 which would place 1000 years in between the resurrection of the blessed and lost.
"Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"<-This is the Good guy resurrection at the beginning of the 1000 years.
How could this be thought of as a "spiritual" resurrection that started when the believer is saved?
It says these guys had not worshiped the beast or its image and refused the mark.
How could this be thought of as a "spiritual" resurrection that started when the believer is saved?
It says these guys had not worshiped the beast or its image and refused the mark.
"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended"<-This is the bad guy resurrection # 2 at the end of the 1000 years.
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(On the rare occasions when I tell this story, people get angry. They've never heard of this before and it goes against their established prophetic paradigms. So because of that I'll apologize in advance.)
BABerean2, I think that your Friend Bryan has come to an unfortunately erroneous conclusion. But it's not his fault because probably nobody has got the Gog figured out. I don't even have to read past the second paragraph to see that he's operating from a false assumption which is that the Gog/Magog of Ezekiel is the same thing as the Gog/Magog from Revelation. The two Gogs cannot be the same. If the Ezekiel Gog was ever going to take place it would have happened already along with that Ezekiel Temple being built, the two go hand in hand.
Assembling an end time chronology from the books of Daniel and Revelation has been my endeavor for the last little while. What I began to question at some point was where do the Old Testament end time items fit into the Daniel and Revelation story. Things like the wolf laying down with the lamb, burning the weapons for 7 years or the young child putting his hand into a viper's nest. Some people assume these things will take place during the 1000 years and they've cooked up all kinds of scenarios where there's a mix of mortal people being ruled by the resurrected saints. I'm afraid there's a big problem that's going to interfere with this being possible.
It appears that the Lord had 3 prophets operating at the same time: Daniel, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Three different prophets but He was giving them two very different end time scenarios or end time visions. Don't get this confused with 2 peoples, 2 plans, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about God's Plan of Salvation, we've got only one Salvific Plan, but there's two very different and distinct end time visions. Each of the two plans have similarities or parallels, Gog/Magog is one of them, but when we mix the Old Testament end time story with Daniel and Revelation there's no end to the confusion and misunderstanding.
Daniel 9 was the deciding factor whether we would build the Ezekiel Temple or write the book of Revelation. That's why John the Baptizer was always proclaiming "the Kingdom of God is at hand" because it really was about to happen right then and there. I don't think everybody completely understands what the 70 weeks were all about or the gravity of the phrase: "to seal both vision and prophet". During the 70th week we had two potential outcomes that were possible, everything hinged on whether or not the Jews accepted their Messiah. Probably by the time John the Baptist lost his head the handwriting was on the wall.
God knew we were going to screw it up so He had plan B all ready to go. I think it's amazing that He put the overwhelming effort into the Ezekiel plan even though He knew we would fail. Consider all the detail in the numerous Ezekiel chapters describing that Temple and it's surrounding area but notice there's a big "if" in there as God is speaking to the Israelites near the end of the Babylonian exile:
“As for you, son of man, describe to the house of Israel the temple, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and they shall measure the plan. And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the temple, its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, that is, its whole design; and make known to them as well all its statutes and its whole design and all its laws, and write it down in their sight, so that they may observe all its laws and all its statutes and carry them out. This is the law of the temple: the whole territory on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the temple"
"IF" they are ashamed of all that they have done THEN they shall measure the plan and know the design, arrangement, the exits, entrances, statutes and design. "IF"we were sitting in that Ezekiel Temple right now, the book of Daniel would have remained "sealed" and Revelation would have never been written. Now I think that the Temple John was talking about in Revelation 11 is the plan that's going to be "measured" and when it's finished at the 7th trumpet, we are IT.
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It can only make sense if we understand that the Roman antichrist system has been in effect since the days of Paul.
Paul was beheaded by the "woman that rides the beast".
Scripture states that there were many antichrists in the days of Paul.
Neither Paul nor Stephen nor those who died in the Roman coliseum would bow down to anyone or deny that Jesus was and is the Messiah. They would not receive the "mark" of the beast.
John saw "souls" in heaven that had been martyred from the time of Stephen up to the time shortly before Christ returns.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
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Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
This verse shows the timing of the John 5 resurrection.
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This is the biggie Bab. This is the one that can prove it once and for all. I'm not gonna do it tonight so don't worry, this forum is making my computer tired.
This verse is talking about two separate groups of martyrs. The first group,under the alter, is overdue for a big payback. This group includes Paul and all the Fox book people of the middle ages.
The second group, which probably includes me, has not even started yet.
We are living in an intermission between these two historic periods of Christian persecution.
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I agree that we are the temple. The New Testament makes this clear.
Many people get into trouble in Isaiah chapter 65 by ignoring the fact that the description of humans doing things is happening in the New Heavens and the New Earth. We know that Jesus came to make all things right. Some of what we experience in the New Heavens and the New Earth may be like what Adam and Eve experienced in the Garden, before the fall.
sa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. This is the New Jerusalem, which is now above.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
This is happening in the New Heavens and the New Earth, if we consider the verses before it.
Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Some of this is similar to what Adam did in the Garden.
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I do not think it has stopped since the time Stephen was stoned.
It is happening now to our Brothers and Sisters in the Middle East.
However, I agree that the last few years will be the worst.
Rest your computer.
Thanks for the cordial conversation.
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