ARE YOU READY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

[sparow]

Yes I agree sparrow, but I believe the buying and selling will be the result of receiving or not receiving the mark of the beast. It is not clear exactly how it will be enforced but it will be under legislation and law. In fact did you know that in the US these laws are already on their books? They are just not active at the moment. They are called "Blue laws" (linked) have you heard of them before?

I haven't heard of blue laws but I have heard of one American State started by Puritans that had the death penalty by hanging for working on Sunday; no one was ever convicted or hanged, but that law was still on the books thirty years ago and probably still is. I don't see his specifically to do with the mark of the beast.

Speculation is fun and possibly necessary but to be too sure could cause one to miss the real thing when it comes; how literally do we take it; is it image to the beast or image of the beast; People who refuse the mark of the beast would have to be among those who had previously worshipped the image or else they would be dead; unless these events are spread across multiple generations. God looks for His mark in peoples heart, the beast may look for physical behavior.

 

[7xlightray]

"Can you tell me how the scripture you provide here identifies the beast of Revelation 13 in your view?"

Yes,​

it doesn't, it's only where we find the calculation (or how we are to add it up, as the Hebrews, Greeks, and Romans, had their own numeral systems of adding up a name, to produce a number. God has one better, His own way of producing a name, not a number, as we are told to do, by counting the number of the beast), which is one of the items missing from Rev. 13:18. If one takes a step back, before numerology, even possibly to the first time reading that verse Rev.13:18, we are missing the calculation (how to add up), the number (of the beast (for even you say, we don't add up 666, but other numbers)), and the name, are we not?

"The scripture in Revelation 13:17-18 is in relation to identifying the first Beast of Revelation 13. The number of the Beast we are told is the number of a man and it is a number that must be calculated by those who God has given wisdom to."

If you're able, I am that one, and I did. Rev. 13:18 is saying, that there is now a number 666 that is in existence, at least at, or by the time of John's writing.
K. Greek: "number for a man is"
"for it is [this word G1510 also means "exist." And it is Present, in the Indicative, meaning: action taking place or going on in the present time. And compare all that, with other verses, like "before Abraham was, I AM [G1510; and is Present, in the Indicative]"; In fact go to the beginning of Rev. 13:18, in K. Greek it reads "Here the wisdom is [G1510; and is Present, in the Indicative; exists now, at the Present time of John's writing, and to anyone that reads and understands it; it exists before your eyes]] the ["a number"; there is no definite article here] number of a man [and it is of a man, and this number 666 belongs to this man (the beast has his/it's own number, it must; and even you say, we are to add up the numbers to the letters of his/it's names, to equal 666 (which numbers are missing, and unknown until found, for they are not in these two verses Rev:13:17-18))]." Or..
"a number for a man there is"
"for a number of a man exists, and it's/his number is.."
And, Yes, I agree very much so, they do identify the beast that is worshiped of Rev. 13.​

​

I have some questions for consideration to what your providing here so I may better understand you. I will only start by asking one question at a time to make the discussion simple. The first question therefore is...
Q1. The scripture you have provided gives a number which is 666 but this number is not a calculated number. All you have provided here is a number that has not been calculated it is also not a number of a man and neither is it the number of a beast."

Yes, certainly do.​

There are only three other verses in the Bible, that I know of, that contain this number 666, and all three speak of a man, and all three speak of a number 666 belonging to that man, would you not agree?:
​

Ezra 2:13 The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six.
and
2 Chronicles 9:13 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon [the king, of everything] in one year was six hundred and threescore [sixty] and six talents of gold
and
1Ki 10:14 "Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore [sixty] and six talents of gold"
​

Is not Six hundred and sixty-six a reckoned up number belonging to Solomon, or Adonikam, a man?
Or, is there another reason you say, it is not a number of the man Solomon?
Though it is not the number of the beast, that is for sure, I agree, but it does not need to be, for this is only where we find the calculation; the number, or numbers are still yet to be found.

It may seem like there is not a calculation there, but it is one of the worlds most well known..
Clue: Every Merchant, and Tax payer should recognize this calculation/count/add up, which is referred to as, or called..?​

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ "Can you tell me how the scripture you provide here identifies the beast of Revelation 13 in your view?"

Your response here...

Yes, it doesn't, it's only where we find the calculation (or how we are to add it up, as the Hebrews, Greeks, and Romans, had their own numeral systems of adding up a name, to produce a number. God has one better, His own way of producing a name, not a number, as we are told to do, by counting the number of the beast), which is one of the items missing from Rev. 13:18. If one takes a step back, before numerology, even possibly to the first time reading that verse Rev.13:18, we are missing the calculation (how to add up), the number (of the beast (for even you say, we don't add up 666, but other numbers)), and the name, are we not?

Then don't you have a problem right from the start?

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.

The scripture in Revelation 13:17-18 is in relation to identifying the first Beast of Revelation 13. The number of the Beast we are told is the number of a man and it is a number that must be calculated by those who God has given "understanding" to make this calculation.

Firstly you made no calculation you only provided a total number calculated and secondly your number does is not the number of a man that is the number of a beast and thirdly your number that you did not calculate does not identify the beast.

If you're able, I am that one, and I did. Rev. 13:18 is saying, that there is now a number 666 that is in existence, at least at, or by the time of John's writing. K. Greek: "number for a man is" "for it is [this word G1510 also means "exist." And it is Present, in the Indicative, meaning: action taking place or going on in the present time. And compare all that, with other verses, like "before Abraham was, I AM [G1510; and is Present, in the Indicative]"; In fact go to the beginning of Rev. 13:18, in K. Greek it reads "Here the wisdom is [G1510; and is Present, in the Indicative; exists now, at the Present time of John's writing, and to anyone that reads and understands it; it exists before your eyes]] the ["a number"; there is no definite article here] number of a man [and it is of a man, and this number 666 belongs to this man (the beast has his/it's own number, it must; and even you say, we are to add up the numbers to the letters of his/it's names, to equal 666 (which numbers are missing, and unknown until found, for they are not in these two verses Rev:13:17-18))]." Or.. "a number for a man there is" "for a number of a man exists, and it's/his number is.." And, Yes, I agree very much so, they do identify the beast that is worshiped of Rev. 13.

Ok so your saying you agree with me here that the number needs to identify the beast and it is present indicative active (present tense) yet you have still not identified who the mans number is or the beast to which it points to?

Yes, certainly do. There are only three other verses in the Bible, that I know of, that contain this number 666, and all three speak of a man, and all three speak of a number 666 belonging to that man, would you not agree?: Ezra 2:13 The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six. and 2 Chronicles 9:13 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon [the king, of everything] in one year was six hundred and threescore [sixty] and six talents of gold and 1Ki 10:14 "Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore [sixty] and six talents of gold"
Is not Six hundred and sixty-six a reckoned up number belonging to Solomon, or Adonikam, a man? Or, is there another reason you say, it is not a number of the man Solomon?
Though it is not the number of the beast, that is for sure, I agree, but it does not need to be, for this is only where we find the calculation; the number, or numbers are still yet to be found. It may seem like there is not a calculation there, but it is one of the worlds most well known.. Clue: Every Merchant, and Tax payer should recognize this calculation/count/add up, which is referred to as, or called..?

I believe this is where your problem is. The scriptures your quoted regarding Solomon are not His number but the total number of His gold in one year. The scripture you quoted in Ezra is to the total number of all the men of Adonikam and not "a man" (Revelation 13:18 is Genitive masculine singular) and nothing you have provided identifies who the beast of Revelation 13 is does it? Therefore how do the scriptures you have provided fulfill the conditions of Revelation 13:18 and the rest of Revelation 13:1-17?

Can you see the problem you have here with your interpretation 7xlightray?​

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sorry delete... wrong thread...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes,​

it doesn't, it's only where we find the calculation (or how we are to add it up, as the Hebrews, Greeks, and Romans, had their own numeral systems of adding up a name, to produce a number. God has one better, His own way of producing a name, not a number, as we are told to do, by counting the number of the beast), which is one of the items missing from Rev. 13:18. If one takes a step back, before numerology, even possibly to the first time reading that verse Rev.13:18, we are missing the calculation (how to add up), the number (of the beast (for even you say, we don't add up 666, but other numbers)), and the name, are we not?

If you're able, I am that one, and I did. Rev. 13:18 is saying, that there is now a number 666 that is in existence, at least at, or by the time of John's writing.
K. Greek: "number for a man is"
"for it is [this word G1510 also means "exist." And it is Present, in the Indicative, meaning: action taking place or going on in the present time. And compare all that, with other verses, like "before Abraham was, I AM [G1510; and is Present, in the Indicative]"; In fact go to the beginning of Rev. 13:18, in K. Greek it reads "Here the wisdom is [G1510; and is Present, in the Indicative; exists now, at the Present time of John's writing, and to anyone that reads and understands it; it exists before your eyes]] the ["a number"; there is no definite article here] number of a man [and it is of a man, and this number 666 belongs to this man (the beast has his/it's own number, it must; and even you say, we are to add up the numbers to the letters of his/it's names, to equal 666 (which numbers are missing, and unknown until found, for they are not in these two verses Rev:13:17-18))]." Or..
"a number for a man there is"
"for a number of a man exists, and it's/his number is.."
And, Yes, I agree very much so, they do identify the beast that is worshiped of Rev. 13.​

​

Yes, certainly do.​

There are only three other verses in the Bible, that I know of, that contain this number 666, and all three speak of a man, and all three speak of a number 666 belonging to that man, would you not agree?:
​

Ezra 2:13 The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six.
and
2 Chronicles 9:13 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon [the king, of everything] in one year was six hundred and threescore [sixty] and six talents of gold
and
1Ki 10:14 "Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore [sixty] and six talents of gold"
​

Is not Six hundred and sixty-six a reckoned up number belonging to Solomon, or Adonikam, a man?
Or, is there another reason you say, it is not a number of the man Solomon?
Though it is not the number of the beast, that is for sure, I agree, but it does not need to be, for this is only where we find the calculation; the number, or numbers are still yet to be found.

It may seem like there is not a calculation there, but it is one of the worlds most well known..
Clue: Every Merchant, and Tax payer should recognize this calculation/count/add up, which is referred to as, or called..?​

Let me know when your ready, and take your time. I know I have asked quite a few questions here.

 

[7xlightray]

Your response here...

Then don't you have a problem right from the start?

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.

The scripture in Revelation 13:17-18 is in relation to identifying the first Beast of Revelation 13. The number of the Beast we are told is the number of a man and it is a number that must be calculated by those who God has given "understanding" to make this calculation.

Firstly you made no calculation you only provided a total number calculated and secondly your number does is not the number of a man that is the number of a beast and thirdly your number that you did not calculate does not identify the beast.

Ok so your saying you agree with me here that the number needs to identify the beast and it is present indicative active (present tense) yet you have still not identified who the mans number is or the beast to which it points to?

I believe this is where your problem is. The scriptures your quoted regarding Solomon are not His number but the total number of His gold in one year. The scripture you quoted in Ezra is to the total number of all the men of Adonikam and not "a man" (Revelation 13:18 is Genitive masculine singular) and nothing you have provided identifies who the beast of Revelation 13 is does it? Therefore how do the scriptures you have provided fulfill the conditions of Revelation 13:18 and the rest of Revelation 13:1-17?

Can you see the problem you have here with your interpretation 7xlightray?​

There is no problem, this is not where the problem lies. I said, this is only where we find the calculation/count, that's it! Numbers are found elsewhere, and we can't do a calculation without them! Would you not agree?

You keep backtracking, not hearing, and accusing, or complaining of things not said. This is only an "offer," you can stop any time you like, but you keep coming across, as if you don't want it. I don't want to force you into something you don't really want (If you want to stop, we can stop?).

Before I continue, or attempt to answer any other question in post #783 (for it appears in your questioning you are still holding onto a type of interpretation that the verse is not demanding. And your understanding of possession (Genitive: which helps to limit the scope of another noun by indicating its "kind" or "class". ) questionable (666 talents of gold belong to Solomon (a man. Does this $100 dollar bill belong to you? No, just the bill part, not the $100 part! Or how about these 100 $1 dollar bills? How do you know it's your $20 dollar bill, and not someone elses?), and the 666 children (desendents) of Adonikam belong to Adonikam (a man, the father of them, and not to some other man, or father)). You understand that the 666 students of room #214, are not actually owned by room #214, even though all 666 students belong to room #214? You also know that in Rev. 13:18, the subjects are not the beast, or the man, nor the first number (which is of the beast), correct?), are you first able to agree to where your source comes from, outside of the Bible, as here mentioned..

Do you understand, that you are getting your:
"count/calculation (Roman numerals (Gematria), that you have chosen),"
and "numbers (of letters of a name, that you have choosen),"
and the "name(s) (How many names and titles does the beast kingdom have? Does the man and the kingdom have the same name(s)?)," that you have chosen, from outside of the bible?
And that John does not alert us to a Latin (as John alerts here Revelation 9:11, even John 19:20) numeral adding up game.

And, I am claiming, God provides for us the "count," and the "numbers," from the Bible, which are in the Bible, and which gives us the "name," but you're insisting, we should believe your method, is using the Bible to interpret the Bible (and this also, with it's many names, titles, and the many combinations of these, that one can be selective about).

If a man, in a room full of people watching, boiled water in kettle-B, and poured that boiling water into kettle-A, believed and told the others he used kettle-A to boil the water, would he not only be fooling and deceiving himself, since the others would know he used kettle-B to boil the water, unless of course, they did not see?
If one has talked oneself into believing, that choosing their own "count," "numbers," and "name" is as, getting it from the Bible, that is, as the Bible interpreting the Bible, then how will one ever come to the truth of this matter, unless the blinder is removed? And if one is not willing to be truthful toward oneself on a matter, why would one have a need to be truthful toward others on the matter?​

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There is no problem, this is not where the problem lies. I said, this is only where we find the calculation/count, that's it! Numbers are found elsewhere, and we can't do a calculation without them! Would you not agree?

Actually you have a big problem you have not addressed within the scriptures that just do not add up (excuse the pun). This is exactly the problem. As posted earlier the scripture reads...

Revelation 13:17-18 [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [18] Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.

The scripture in Revelation 13:17-18 is in relation to identifying the first Beast of Revelation 13. The number of the Beast we are told is the number of a man and it is a number that must be calculated by those who God has given "understanding" to make this calculation.

Firstly you made no calculation you only provided a total number and secondly your number does is not the number of a man that is the number of a beast and thirdly your number that you did not calculate does not identify the beast.

You keep backtracking, not hearing, and accusing, or complaining of things not said. This is only an "offer," you can stop any time you like, but you keep coming across, as if you don't want it. I don't want to force you into something you don't really want (If you want to stop, we can stop?).

When discussing the scriptures there are conditions required to meet there fulfillment. In the case of Revelation 13:18 if is only one of the many distinguishing features that identify who the first beast of Revelation 13 is. In Revelation 13:18 specific requirements need to be fulfilled in order to correctly identify who the number of His (the mans and beasts) point to. Some of these include...

1. The number of the beast is a number of a man (not Gold)

2. God has given "understanding" to count or calculate (The Greek word ψηφίζω; psēphizōused here is an aorist imperitive active and means to calculate or to count or explain by computing; Thayer) the number of the man which adds up to 666. (You have not demonstrated this).

3. This number is calculated from the name of the man that is connected to the beast (you have not done any of the above).

4. All of the above must also link and connect directly with the rest of the contexts.

So there is no backtracking as you claim. Neither is there any coming across as if I do not wish to know. Yes you have already been provided what I believe is the best solution to Revelation 13:18 that identifies the Roman Catholic Church but I have always been opened to discussion and to be proven wrong but I am still waiting for this to happen it appears. I have only asked you questions that your answer to Revelation 13:18 do not address in order to help the discussion. If you do not want to discuss these problems your interpretation has just say so. It is up to you and you are free to believe as you wish.

Before I continue, or attempt to answer any other question in post #783 (for it appears in your questioning you are still holding onto a type of interpretation that the verse is not demanding. And your understanding of possession (Genitive: which helps to limit the scope of another noun by indicating its "kind" or "class". ) questionable

Well why would that be? I have already provided the Greek here in relation to the numbers and the beast and man showing that the first use of number [Noun-Accusative Masculine Singular] (v18) that is to be calculated is accusative to the beast (Noun Genitive neuter Singular) but the number (repeated the second time) and the second use of the number is nominative to the man meaning the man's number. The mans number that is to be calculated is to the verb which is present indicative active of the calculated number that totals 666 which is a personal possessive 3rd person singular that must be calculated to those who God gives understanding. John is referring to the number being to the man in the 3rd person as well as the beast. Another words you calculate the man's number or the number of His name you identify the beast.

(666 talents of gold belong to Solomon (a man. Does this $100 dollar bill belong to you? No, just the bill part, not the $100 part! Or how about these 100 $1 dollar bills? How do you know it's your $20 dollar bill, and not someone elses?), and the 666 children (desendents) of Adonikam belong to Adonikam (a man, the father of them, and not to some other man, or father)). You understand that the 666 students of room #214, are not actually owned by room #214, even though all 666 students belong to room #214? You also know that in Rev. 13:18, the subjects are not the beast, or the man, nor the first number (which is of the beast), correct?), are you first able to agree to where your source comes from, outside of the Bible, as here mentioned..

This is where your running into problems again. The scripture does not say anywhere that the beast number is the number of a mans Gold. Your reading into the scriptures what they do not teach and your interpretation does not identify the beast. Do you know what the symbol of a "Beast" represents in bible prophecy? Your adding to the scriptures what the scriptures are not telling to do do in order to find a number you have not calculated.

Do you understand, that you are getting your: "count/calculation (Roman numerals (Gematria), that you have chosen)," and "numbers (of letters of a name, that you have choosen)," and the "name(s) (How many names and titles does the beast kingdom have? Does the man and the kingdom have the same name(s)?)," that you have chosen, from outside of the bible? And that John does not alert us to a Latin (as John alerts here Revelation 9:11, even John 19:20) numeral adding up game.

Go do some more research. Roman numerals is not Gematria neither is it numerology. It is an old mathematics system used by the Roman Empire in daily living. The official language of the Roman Catholic Church is LATIN. Roman numerals use letters of the latin alphabet that assign numerical values and was the official counting system used throughout the ancient Roman Empire and the Roman Catholic Church and was used for counting and mathematics. (see Wiki; MathWorld; MathisFun; Study.com; Roman Mathamatics). Romans numerals unlike Gematria and Numerology is taught in our school systems. The Roman numerals are a numerical system composed of seven Latin letters (Wictionary).

Post # 751 linked is using LATIN numerical values from the titles of the Roman Catholic Church popes names which are written in LATIN from which Roman numerals are derived.

REVELATION 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six (666).

666 THE NUMBER OF A MAN - NUMBER OF A MAN

Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church which uses the Latin Vulgate Bible. Roman numerals are used to calculate the Beast's number which is the number of a man that equals 666.

................

LATIN NAMES AND THE POPE TITLE USING ROMAN NUMERALS

The ancient Greek word for "the Latin speaking man" is
LATEINOS

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

The ancient Greek for"The Latin Kingdom" is
HE LATINE BASILEIA Strong's # G932

H = 0 (transliterated)
E = 8 eta

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
E = 8 eta

B = 2 beta
A = 1 alpha
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
L = 30 lambda
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
A = 1 alpha
------------
666

And in ancient Greek the word
APOSTATES

A = 1 alpha
P = 80 pi
O = 70 omicron
ST = 6 stigma*
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 8 eta
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

* Stigma is a now obsolete Greek character, but it appears in the New Testament in Rev 13:18 to give the value 666 (chi xi stigma - See Strong's Concordance, # G5516).

And in ancient Greek the word for "tradition" PARADOSIS Strong's # G3862

P = 80 pi
A = 1 alpha
R = 100 rho
A = 1 alpha
D = 4 delta
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

..................

Popes titles in Latin: VICARIUS FILII DEI (in place of the Son of God)
112 + 53 + 501 = 666

Popes titles in Latin: Dux Cleri (Captain of the Clergy)
515 + 151 = 666

Popes titles in Latin: LUDOVICUS (Vicar of the court)
Adds up to 666

Hebrew word for "Roman kingdom" ROMITH
Adds up to 666

Hebrew word for "Roman man" ROMITI
Adds up to 666

As can be shown above I believe the number of the beast is the number of a man as the scriptures teach that adds up to 666 once again points to the title of the POPE and the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (Source; Biblelight)

Roman numerals used in mathematics for numbers in the Roman empire is not Gematria or numerology (see also Numerology.com) which uses a different counting systems with each number having a different meaning and is based in the occult.

You are yet to make a case dear friend but I am still open for discussion and happy for you to prove your claims. So far I do not believe you have done so.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[7xlightray]

Actually you have a big problem you have not addressed within the scriptures that just do not add up (excuse the pun). This is exactly the problem. As posted earlier the scripture reads...

Revelation 13:17-18 [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [18] Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.

The scripture in Revelation 13:17-18 is in relation to identifying the first Beast of Revelation 13. The number of the Beast we are told is the number of a man and it is a number that must be calculated by those who God has given "understanding" to make this calculation.

Firstly you made no calculation you only provided a total number and secondly your number does is not the number of a man that is the number of a beast and thirdly your number that you did not calculate does not identify the beast.

When discussing the scriptures there are conditions required to meet there fulfillment. In the case of Revelation 13:18 if is only one of the many distinguishing features that identify who the first beast of Revelation 13 is. In Revelation 13:18 specific requirements need to be fulfilled in order to correctly identify who the number of His (the mans and beasts) point to. Some of these include...

1. The number of the beast is a number of a man (not Gold)

2. God has given "understanding" to count or calculate (The Greek word ψηφίζω; psēphizōused here is an aorist imperitive active and means to calculate or to count or explain by computing; Thayer) the number of the man which adds up to 666. (You have not demonstrated this).

3. This number is calculated from the name of the man that is connected to the beast (you have not done any of the above).

4. All of the above must also link and connect directly with the rest of the contexts.

So there is no backtracking as you claim. Neither is there any coming across as if I do not wish to know. Yes you have already been provided what I believe is the best solution to Revelation 13:18 that identifies the Roman Catholic Church but I have always been opened to discussion and to be proven wrong but I am still waiting for this to happen it appears. I have only asked you questions that your answer to Revelation 13:18 do not address in order to help the discussion. If you do not want to discuss these problems your interpretation has just say so. It is up to you and you are free to believe as you wish.

Well why would that be? I have already provided the Greek here in relation to the numbers and the beast and man showing that the first use of number [Noun-Accusative Masculine Singular] (v18) that is to be calculated is accusative to the beast (Noun Genitive neuter Singular) but the number (repeated the second time) and the second use of the number is nominative to the man meaning the man's number. The mans number that is to be calculated is to the verb which is present indicative active of the calculated number that totals 666 which is a personal possessive 3rd person singular that must be calculated to those who God gives understanding. John is referring to the number being to the man in the 3rd person as well as the beast. Another words you calculate the man's number or the number of His name you identify the beast.
This is where your running into problems again. The scripture does not say anywhere that the beast number is the number of a mans Gold. Your reading into the scriptures what they do not teach and your interpretation does not identify the beast. Do you know what the symbol of a "Beast" represents in bible prophecy? Your adding to the scriptures what the scriptures are not telling to do do in order to find a number you have not calculated. Go do some more research. Roman numerals is not Gematria neither is it numerology. It is an old mathematics system used by the Roman Empire in daily living. The official language of the Roman Catholic Church is LATIN. Roman numerals use letters of the latin alphabet that assign numerical values and was the official counting system used throughout the ancient Roman Empire and the Roman Catholic Church and was used for counting and mathematics. (see Wiki; MathWorld; MathisFun; Study.com; Roman Mathamatics). Romans numerals unlike Gematria and Numerology is taught in our school systems. The Roman numerals are a numerical system composed of seven Latin letters (Wictionary).

Post # 751 linked is using LATIN numerical values from the titles of the Roman Catholic Church popes names which are written in LATIN from which Roman numerals are derived.

REVELATION 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six (666).

666 THE NUMBER OF A MAN - NUMBER OF A MAN

Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church which uses the Latin Vulgate Bible. Roman numerals are used to calculate the Beast's number which is the number of a man that equals 666.

................

LATIN NAMES AND THE POPE TITLE USING ROMAN NUMERALS

The ancient Greek word for "the Latin speaking man" is
LATEINOS

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

The ancient Greek for"The Latin Kingdom" is
HE LATINE BASILEIA Strong's # G932

H = 0 (transliterated)
E = 8 eta

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
E = 8 eta

B = 2 beta
A = 1 alpha
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
L = 30 lambda
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
A = 1 alpha
------------
666

And in ancient Greek the word
APOSTATES

A = 1 alpha
P = 80 pi
O = 70 omicron
ST = 6 stigma*
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 8 eta
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

* Stigma is a now obsolete Greek character, but it appears in the New Testament in Rev 13:18 to give the value 666 (chi xi stigma - See Strong's Concordance, # G5516).

And in ancient Greek the word for "tradition" PARADOSIS Strong's # G3862

P = 80 pi
A = 1 alpha
R = 100 rho
A = 1 alpha
D = 4 delta
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

..................

Popes titles in Latin: VICARIUS FILII DEI (in place of the Son of God)
112 + 53 + 501 = 666

Popes titles in Latin: Dux Cleri (Captain of the Clergy)
515 + 151 = 666

Popes titles in Latin: LUDOVICUS (Vicar of the court)
Adds up to 666

Hebrew word for "Roman kingdom" ROMITH
Adds up to 666

Hebrew word for "Roman man" ROMITI
Adds up to 666

As can be shown above I believe the number of the beast is the number of a man as the scriptures teach that adds up to 666 once again points to the title of the POPE and the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (Source; Biblelight)

Roman numerals used in mathematics for numbers in the Roman empire is not Gematria or numerology (see also Numerology.com) which uses a different counting systems with each number having a different meaning and is based in the occult.

You are yet to make a case dear friend but I am still open for discussion and happy for you to prove your claims. So far I do not believe you have done so.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

The offer was not for me to calculate anything, only to give aid.

"Gematria is an alphanumeric code of assigning a numerical value to a name, word or phrase based on its letters."
Is what I was referring to, and what you are doing.​

Exactly,
it does not say, "for it is the number of a gold talent, or gold talents of a man."
As it also does not say, "for it is the number of a name, or names of a man."
It is also not, "for it is the number/total of gold."
nor, "for it is the number/total of a man's name."
It's simply a number/total of a man.
And the same of v.17 "the number of his name" does not necessarily mean adding up letters of a name. It could mean that, or it could mean something somewhat similar, or it could mean something else, It's a riddle. The difference I have been trying to point out, from the beginning, is the source, and which of the two has more precedence.

So, it's your professional interpretation of Rev. 13:18, that all of Solomon's gold that he reckoned up to total six hundred and sixty-six, is not the reckoned up number of a man (Solomon), but is the gold's reckoned up number?
It is not, "the number/total of gold (as in total/number of apple's), but "the number/total of a man."
And "his number/total is six hundred and sixty-six (talents of gold, or letters of value that add up to, or even some other understanding. It's a riddle)."​

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The offer was not for me to calculate anything, only to give aid.

"Gematria is an alphanumeric code of assigning a numerical value to a name, word or phrase based on its letters."
Is what I was referring to, and what you are doing.​

Exactly,
it does not say, "for it is the number of a gold talent, or gold talents of a man."
As it also does not say, "for it is the number of a name, or names of a man."
It is also not, "for it is the number/total of gold."
nor, "for it is the number/total of a man's name."
It's simply a number/total of a man.
And the same of v.17 "the number of his name" does not necessarily mean adding up letters of a name. It could mean that, or it could mean something somewhat similar, or it could mean something else, It's a riddle. The difference I have been trying to point out, from the beginning, is the source, and which of the two has more precedence.

So, it's your professional interpretation of Rev. 13:18, that all of Solomon's gold that he reckoned up to total six hundred and sixty-six, is not the reckoned up number of a man (Solomon), but is the gold's reckoned up number?
It is not, "the number/total of gold (as in total/number of apple's), but "the number/total of a man."
And "his number/total is six hundred and sixty-six (talents of gold, or letters of value that add up to, or even some other understanding. It's a riddle)."​

I am sorry dear friend. I do not see your post here matching the scripture requirements of Revelation 13:17-18 as shown through the scriptures in the previous posts. You have not addressed these questions that disagree with the scriptures provided. As shown in the last post Roman numerals are not Gematria neither is it numerology. It is simply a numbering system used in Roman mathematics. Links already provided in the previous post. Your only repeating yourself here without addressing the content of my previous posts or the questions in them that show why the interpretation you have provided is in question.

 

[Uriah123]

I am sorry dear friend. I do not see your post here matching the scripture requirements of Revelation 13:17-18 as shown through the scriptures in the previous posts. You have not addressed these questions that disagree with the scriptures provided. As shown in the last post Roman numerals are not Gematria neither is it numerology. It is simply a numbering system used in Roman mathematics. Links already provided in the previous post. Your only repeating yourself here without addressing the content of my previous posts or the questions in them that show why the interpretation you have provided is in question.

edit.

You asked me the other day about non-religious sub-blue laws. I spoke with the head of your church several months ago. PM me if you would like.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

edit.

You asked me the other day about non-religious sub-blue laws. I spoke with the head of your church several months ago. PM me if you would like.

Ok thanks

 

[7xlightray]

I am sorry dear friend. I do not see your post here matching the scripture requirements of Revelation 13:17-18 as shown through the scriptures in the previous posts. You have not addressed these questions that disagree with the scriptures provided. As shown in the last post Roman numerals are not Gematria neither is it numerology. It is simply a numbering system used in Roman mathematics. Links already provided in the previous post. Your only repeating yourself here without addressing the content of my previous posts or the questions in them that show why the interpretation you have provided is in question.

Yes, adding up letters of value of a name, as with Greek, Hebrew, and Roman/Latin numerals (which these three are not done exactly the same either), Gematria, and Numerology. And could add to that Bible Codes, Palm reading, and all the tools of the magic arts.
This is what you want to get into debating about, is the trivial difference of adding up letters in Gematria and Latin, and ignore the actual points, and questions put forth. And the fact we are still waiting for you to reply to, at least, post #786 (the spirit of God teaches sincerity, does it not?), so that we can carry on with the "count", if you're still willing, but maybe not.
If you need me to copy, past, and repost, I can do that, if necessary.
I still have not gotten answers to the important questions been asked of you from the start!
If you continue to respond to something other than what I actually texted (or your repeated cut and past), and ignore the weightier matters for the trivial, or that Rev. 13:18 could not possibly point to anything but adding up letters in Latin, though the NT was written in Greek, and the fact it does not say to use Latin (though you say it does), then I'm going to have to assume you took the blue pill.​

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, adding up letters of value of a name, as with Greek, Hebrew, and Roman/Latin numerals (which these three are not done exactly the same either), Gematria, and Numerology. And could add to that Bible Codes, Palm reading, and all the tools of the magic arts.
This is what you want to get into debating about, is the trivial difference of adding up letters in Gematria and Latin, and ignore the actual points, and questions put forth. And the fact we are still waiting for you to reply to, at least, post #786 (the spirit of God teaches sincerity, does it not?), so that we can carry on with the "count", if you're still willing, but maybe not.
If you need me to copy, past, and repost, I can do that, if necessary.
I still have not gotten answers to the important questions been asked of you from the start!
If you continue to respond to something other than what I actually texted (or your repeated cut and past), and ignore the weightier matters for the trivial, or that Rev. 13:18 could not possibly point to anything but adding up letters in Latin, though the NT was written in Greek, and the fact it does not say to use Latin (though you say it does), then I'm going to have to assume you took the blue pill.​

Goodness, nothing personal but you need to get your facts right before posting dear friend. As shown earlier you have not posted anything in line or agreement with the scriptures in Revelation 13:17-18. This was pointed out with the questions asked of you earlier that disagree with your interpretation of Revelation 13:17-18. Roman numerals are not Gematria, or Numerology and have nothing to do with it as shown in the links in the previous posts you seem to have ignored. I repeated what was shared with you earlier because you have not addressed it. If you do not want to address these questions which I believe are relevant to the correct scriptural interpretation you do not have to, it is up to you just say so. You are free to believe as you wish though dear friend. You will have to assume I believe God's Word because that is all I believe. I prefer the bible so we will have to agree to disagree I guess.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I haven't heard of blue laws but I have heard of one American State started by Puritans that had the death penalty by hanging for working on Sunday; no one was ever convicted or hanged, but that law was still on the books thirty years ago and probably still is. I don't see his specifically to do with the mark of the beast.

Speculation is fun and possibly necessary but to be too sure could cause one to miss the real thing when it comes; how literally do we take it; is it image to the beast or image of the beast; People who refuse the mark of the beast would have to be among those who had previously worshipped the image or else they would be dead; unless these events are spread across multiple generations. God looks for His mark in peoples heart, the beast may look for physical behavior.

Blue laws are laws that make it illegal to work on Sunday. They are still on the books in the US. They are dormant laws that are currently not enforced but can be enacted if needed. (wiki)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

WHO DOES BABYLON THE HARLOT WOMAN REPRESENT IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS?

REVELATION 14:8 [8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

NOTE: BABYLON is being portrayed here in REVELATION 14:8 as an UNFAITHFUL WOMAN.

Similar warnings and scriptures are also found in REVELATIONS 17:1-5 where BABYLON is described as an UNFAITHFUL WOMAN [HARLOT] sitting on the SCARLET COLORED BEAST which is connected to those receiving the MARK OF THE BEAST in REVELATIONS 14:9-10. While REVELATIONS 18:1-10 is a call for God’s people to come out of BABYLON that they do not receive the judgments of God which are connected to the BEASTS MARK. Let’s look at some of these scriputres.

REVELATIONS 17:1-5
[1], And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, and talked with me, saying unto me, come here; I will show unto you the judgment of the GREAT HARLOT THAT SITS ON MANY WATERS:
[2], With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3], So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4], And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5], And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

NOTE: Here we have the WOMAN who is said to be a HARLOT that sits on many waters also a scarlot colored BEAST. This WOMEN HARLOT is named BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. These scriptures link directly to …

REVELATION 14:8 [8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

NOTE: BABYLON therefore in REVELATIONS represents a WOMAN that is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. A WOMAN in bible prophecy represents God’s professed people. A PURE WOMAN represents God’s true Church *JEREMAIAH 6:2; 2 CORINTHIANS 11:2; EPHESIANS 5:23-27, while an UNFAITHFUL WORMAN or HARLOT represents an APOSTATE CHURCH that is UNFAITHFUL to GOD and his WORD *EZEKIEL 16:15-58; 23:2-21; HOSEA 2:5; 3:1; REVELATION 14:4. Let’s look at the scriptures. Therefore, BABYLON that is connected that sits on the BEAST represents a CORRUPT RELIGIOUS POLITICAL POWER. It sits on many WATERS *REVELATION 17:1 which is symbolic of this CORRUPT RELIGIOUS POLITICAL POWER having influence over many people…

REVELATION 17:15, And he said unto me, The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

She commits FORNICATION with the KINGS of the EARTH which means this is as WORLD-WIDE RELIGEOUS movement *REVELATIONS 17:2

This WORLD-WIDE CORRUPT RELIGEOUS POWER IS ALSO SAID TO BE THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS. This is many CORRUPT RELIGEOUS CHURCHES have come out of BABYLON. Now BABYLON represents confusion it is a world-wide corrupt religious political Church that has influence with all the kings of the earth.

IMPORTANT NOTE: We need to stop here to make something clear before proceeding further in identifying who BABYLON represents. These scriptures are NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE IN THESE CHURCHES! God has many of his people inside these corrupt Churches. How do we know this? Please pay attention to the following scriptures.

REVELATIONS 18:1-10
[1], And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was made bright with his glory.
[2], And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of demons, and the haunt of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3], For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich through the abundance of her luxury.
[4], And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, THAT YOU BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS, AND THAT YOU RECEIVE NOT OF HER PLAGUES.
[5], For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

God has his people in BABYLON which represents CORRUPT APOSTATE CHRISTIANITY. God’s WORD goes on to say…

JOHN 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one-fold, and one shepherd.

JOHN 4:21-24
[21], Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
[22], You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
[23], But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.
[24], God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

...............

ANSWER: God has his people in EVERY CHURCH. Not all these Churches are following God or his WORD. Not all these Churches are faithful to God or his WORD. It is not the people in these Churches that God hates and will send judgements to it is the Churches that lead his people away from his WORD to break his commandments. God has his people in all these Churches and is calling his true people out of these Churches to worship him and follow him in Spirit and in truth according to the WORD of GOD. It is because of his great love to us that before the judgments of God fall on these Churches, GOD will call his true followers OUT of these corrupt unfaithful Churches to follow him according to his WORD.

BABYLON represents the Mother Church; the Roman Catholic Church (not the people in it) and the fallen Protestant Churches (not the people). God has his people in every Church and loves them all. He is calling them out to whoship him in Spirit and in truth according to his Word.

God bless...

 

[Justified_By_Christ_Alone]

The beast. Yes, that was Nero. Revelation was written for those of the generation of the Apostles.

You do realize prophesy repeats itself and Nero was only a shadow of what would be coming down the pike today, right? There will still be a mark, a beast, etc. all of that today as well.

 

[sparow]

Blue laws are laws that make it illegal to work on Sunday. They are still on the books in the US. They are dormant laws that are currently not enforced but can be enacted if needed. (wiki)

God does not say that we must work on Sunday; if this is all there is to it Sabbath keepers should be able to abstain from work on Sunday.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

God does not say that we must work on Sunday; if this is all there is to it Sabbath keepers should be able to abstain from work on Sunday.

Perhaps but I see it as bowing down to the Golden image of worship in Daniel 2
With Sunday as a replacement for God's broken 4th commandment

 

[sparow]

Perhaps but I see it as bowing down to the Golden image of worship in Daniel 2
With Sunday as a replacement for God's broken 4th commandment

Your kind of thinking can lead to problems; suppose the beast legislated that you should not work in Saturday, where would that leave you. Only on very few occasions has the beast ordered people to break God's commandments and even then I cannot specifically recall one. Judaism became punishable by death, at least by 70 AD; so the so called church fathers kept Sunday; they should have fled to the wilderness, not because they were ordered to keep Sunday but because had to appear not to be Jews in order to be saved from Rome; so we have that scripture which is not commonly referred to:
Matthew 16:24-28 (NKJV)
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

We are commanded to obey the law of the world, so long as that does not involve braking Gods Law.

Bowing down to the Golden image, or cowering to the beast is a matter of mind and thought; these are evil times and they have been around for a while; in Scotland they are trying to pass laws to force people to think a certain way, legalized political correctness. After WII the Russians were given Hungary, by the Americans and by England; Russia first sent in an army to humiliate the Hungarians, then that army was replace by an army of Psychologists who set about changing the Hungarian mindset; one thing they did was burn all the farm houses and made the farmers and families live in the sheds with the farm animals.

The idea is to endure to the end and be prepared to die; but unpreparedness and the subtly of the attack will catch most.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your kind of thinking can lead to problems; suppose the beast legislated that you should not work in Saturday, where would that leave you. Only on very few occasions has the beast ordered people to break God's commandments and even then I cannot specifically recall one. Judaism became punishable by death, at least by 70 AD; so the so called church fathers kept Sunday; they should have fled to the wilderness, not because they were ordered to keep Sunday but because had to appear not to be Jews in order to be saved from Rome; so we have that scripture which is not commonly referred to:
Matthew 16:24-28 (NKJV)
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

We are commanded to obey the law of the world, so long as that does not involve braking Gods Law.

Bowing down to the Golden image, or cowering to the beast is a matter of mind and thought; these are evil times and they have been around for a while; in Scotland they are trying to pass laws to force people to think a certain way, legalized political correctness. After WII the Russians were given Hungary, by the Americans and by England; Russia first sent in an army to humiliate the Hungarians, then that army was replace by an army of Psychologists who set about changing the Hungarian mindset; one thing they did was burn all the farm houses and made the farmers and families live in the sheds with the farm animals.

The idea is to endure to the end and be prepared to die; but unpreparedness and the subtly of the attack will catch most.

I do not believe so as everything has been clearly outlined through the scriptures in this OP. We are not commanded to obey the Law of the world if it leads to breaking the Law of God. That is why Daniels friends were thrown into the fiery furnace because God's law forbid them from bowing down to idols.