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ARE YOU READY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

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Jipsah

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Hello Lost4words. One objection that could be thrown against that view is that when the prophecies of Revelation were written Nero had already lived and died. And the climax is a new heavens and a new earth which evidently has not yet appeared. God Bless :)
That would seem to imply that the Revelation was altogether irrelevant to those to whom it was addressed, and the warnings that "the time is at hand" and "even at the door" were essentially meaningless.
 
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lismore

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That would seem to imply that the Revelation was altogether irrelevant to those to whom it was addressed, and the warnings that "the time is at hand" and "even at the door" were essentially meaningless.

It just means that how we see time is different from how the Lord sees time, his ways are higher than ours.

An example:

Isaiah 51:5 says 'My righteousness draws near speedily, my salvation is on the way'. Talking of Jesus, written 700 years before he appeared. To the Lord 700 years is speedy. But the coming of that righteousness was sure, 700 years or no, it was on the way. What is described in Revelation will happen. God Bless :)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Not true. That "title" is only used by people trying to make a title of the pope "666". The Catholics have never used it. The title they give him is "Vicarius Christi", meaning the representative or agent of Christ. Using an arrant falsehood like that does little to fiuther the credibility of your arguments.

This is also the kind or arglebargle you get into when you begin with an a priori position then try like mad to come up with some kind evidence to justify it.

Unfortunately you're chosen a false argument to support that notion, using a title for the pope that the RCC has never used.

It's still gematria, use whatever numbering system you will. And in any case, the Revelator assumed, properly, IMO, that the people to whom he addressed the Revelation (not us, BTW) would know to whom the number six hundred sixty six referred. After all, he didn't say that those who were familiar with arithmetic done in Roman numerals would know the identity of the beastm he said thse who had wisdom would know it. I reckon they did. They also knew that the time was at hand, and even at the door, as in fact it was.

He was writing to the 7 Churches. Is there stuff in there for us? Of course. But was there imediate and urgent information that he was adressing to the 7 Churches? Of course! It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

Nor have you; far from it.

Not really. Gematria is not the same and has nothing to do with Romans Numerals (more information here). Go do some more research. Roman numerals is not Gematria neither is it numerology. It is an old mathematics system used by the Roman Empire in daily living.

The official language of the Roman Catholic Church is LATIN. Roman numerals use letters of the latin alphabet that assign numerical values and was the official counting system used throughout the ancient Roman Empire and the Roman Catholic Church and was used for counting and mathematics. (see Wiki; MathWorld; MathisFun; Study.com; Roman Mathamatics). Romans numerals unlike Gematria and Numerology is taught in our school systems. The Roman numerals are a numerical system composed of seven Latin letters (Wictionary).

Post # 751 linked is using LATIN numerical values from the titles of the Roman Catholic Church popes names which are written in LATIN from which Roman numerals are derived.

REVELATION 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six (666).

666 THE NUMBER OF A MAN - NUMBER OF A MAN

Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church which uses the Latin Vulgate Bible. Roman numerals are used to calculate the Beast's number which is the number of a man that equals 666.

Unlike your post we are talking many names not one name....

................

LATIN NAMES AND THE POPE TITLE USING ROMAN NUMERALS

The ancient Greek word for "the Latin speaking man" is
LATEINOS

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

The ancient Greek for"The Latin Kingdom" is
HE LATINE BASILEIA Strong's # G932

H = 0 (transliterated)
E = 8 eta

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
E = 8 eta

B = 2 beta
A = 1 alpha
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
L = 30 lambda
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
A = 1 alpha
------------
666

And in ancient Greek the word
APOSTATES

A = 1 alpha
P = 80 pi
O = 70 omicron
ST = 6 stigma*
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 8 eta
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

* Stigma is a now obsolete Greek character, but it appears in the New Testament in Rev 13:18 to give the value 666 (chi xi stigma - See Strong's Concordance, # G5516).

And in ancient Greek the word for "tradition" PARADOSIS Strong's # G3862

P = 80 pi
A = 1 alpha
R = 100 rho
A = 1 alpha
D = 4 delta
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
S = 200 sigma
------------
666
..................

Popes titles in Latin: VICARIUS FILII DEI (in place of the Son of God)
112 + 53 + 501 = 666

Popes titles in Latin: Dux Cleri (Captain of the Clergy)
515 + 151 = 666

Popes titles in Latin: LUDOVICUS (Vicar of the court)
Adds up to 666

Hebrew word for "Roman kingdom" ROMITH
Adds up to 666

Hebrew word for "Roman man" ROMITI
Adds up to 666

As can be shown above I believe the number of the beast is the number of a man as the scriptures teach that adds up to 666 once again points to the title of the POPE and the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Roman numerals used in mathematics for numbers in the Roman empire is not Gematria or numerology (see also Numerology.com) which uses a different counting systems with each number having a different meaning and is based in the occult.

Hope this helps
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Question:
True or false: observing the 7th day Sabbath is part of the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

Sure is. There is no Grace without God's law (10 commandments). God's law gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. It is sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing his Word) that leads us to God's grace that we might be forgiven through faith. Sin is the reason and the reason why JESUS died.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Sure is. There is no Grace without God's law (10 commandments) that gives us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. It is sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing his Word) that leads us to God's grace that we might be forgiven through faith. Sin is the reason and the reason why JESUS died.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how one undermines the integrity of the Gospel by introducing law, and thus take an ax to the tree of justification by grace alone through faith. Begin subtly, introducing a little poison at first. And then let it rot things away from the inside out.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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LoveGodsWord

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And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how one undermines the integrity of the Gospel by introducing law, and thus take an ax to the tree of justification by grace alone through faith. Begin subtly, introducing a little poison at first. And then let it rot things away from the inside out.

-CryptoLutheran

Nonsense. These are your words not God's Word. The "another gospel" we are warned about in Gods' Word is one that does not include God's law (10 commandments) or leads one away from God and his Word into sin. As it is written the law is the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith. Jesus did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance but many did not know the meaning.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Nonsense. These are your words not God's Word. The "another gospel" we are warned about in Gods' Word is one that does not include God's law (10 commandments) or leads one away from God and his Word into sin. As it is written the law is the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith. Jesus did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance but many did not know the meaning.

The Gospel has nothing to do with the Law. The Gospel is the Gospel.

The Law has no saving power.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The Gospel has nothing to do with the Law. The Gospel is the Gospel.

No one said the law has power to save did they? If no one said the law has power to save why are you pretending they did? If no one said the law has power to save then what is your argument? - You have none because we are both in agreement. Claiming here in your own words that the gospel has nothing to do with law is the same as saying the Gospel has nothing to do with saving sinners. Can you see where your argument is heading? How do you know what sin is? - Yep by the law *Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. The law leads sinners to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith.
 
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ViaCrucis

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No one said the law has power to save did they? If no one said the law has power to save why are you pretending they did? If no one said the law has power to save then what is your argument? - You have none because we are both in agreement. Claiming here in your own words that the gospel has nothing to do with law is the same as saying the Gospel has nothing to do with saving sinners. Can you see where your argument is heading? How do you know what sin is? - Yep by the law *Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. The law leads sinners to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith.

Yes, the Law is what condemns me as a sinner. That's why the Law and the Gospel have nothing to do with one another.

The Law condemns sinners.
The Gospel saves sinners.

Law =/= Gospel

So let's try this again, does observing the Sabbath have anything to do with the Gospel?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes, the Law is what condemns me as a sinner. That's why the Law and the Gospel have nothing to do with one another.

The Law condemns sinners.
The Gospel saves sinners.

Law =/= Gospel

So let's try this again, does observing the Sabbath have anything to do with the Gospel?

-CryptoLutheran

NOPE! As posted earlier there is no grace without God's law. It is Law that leads to grace. Anything else is "another gospel" that we are warned about that can lead us away from God and his Word.

If there is no law there is no knowledge of sin for sin is the transgression of the law. If there is no law and no sin then no one has need of a Savior. If there is no law, no sin and no Savior there is no salvation from sin and the scripture is fulfilled "They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick go learn what that means I desired mercy not sacrifice." and again "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law. Can you see where your teachings are leading you?

No Law = No Grace because law leads to Grace

If there was no law JESUS would not have had to die. God's law leads us (sinners) to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith.

Your welcome
 
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ViaCrucis

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NO! As posted earlier there is no grace without God's law. It is Law that leads to grace. Anything else is "another gospel" that we are warned about that can lead us away from God and his Word.

The Law doesn't lead to grace. The Law leads to death.

If there is no law there is no knowledge of sin for sin is the transgression of the law. If there is no law and no sin then no one has need of a Savior. If there is no law, no sin and no Savior there is no salvation from sin and the scripture is fulfilled "They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick go learn what that means I desired mercy not sacrifice." and again "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law. Can you see where your teachings are leading you?

It is knowledge of sin and of our transgression of the Law--that we are sinners--that is death. That we are wretched sinners estranged from God is not grace, it is death.

No Law = No Grace

If there was no law JESUS would not have had to die. God's law leads us (sinners) to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith.

The Law doesn't lead us to Christ, the Gospel does. The Law points out the need in us for salvation which is in Christ, but if you preach the Law it doesn't give me Christ--only the Gospel does that.

The Law leads us to the grave.

"But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin is dead. And I was alive once, apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life" - Romans 7:8-9

-CryptoLutheran
 
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LoveGodsWord

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So let's try this again, does observing the Sabbath have anything to do with the Gospel?
-CryptoLutheran

No problem. God's law is a part of the Gospel. It reveals what sin is which is breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following God's Word. There is no Grace without God's law (10 commandments) because the wages of sin is death. It is these wages (death through sin) that JESUS died for to give those who believe on him everlasting life. God's law gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and leads us to God's grace that we might be forgiven through faith. Sin is the reason why JESUS died for sinners.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The Law doesn't lead to grace. The Law leads to death.



It is knowledge of sin and of our transgression of the Law--that we are sinners--that is death. That we are wretched sinners estranged from God is not grace, it is death.



The Law doesn't lead us to Christ, the Gospel does.

The Law leads us to the grave.

"But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin is dead. And I was alive once, apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life" - Romans 7:8-9

-CryptoLutheran

Then for you these scriptures are fulfilled....

MATTHEW 9:12-13 [12], But when Jesus heard that, he said to them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Who did JESUS come to save and what do you think these scriptures mean?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Then for you these scriptures are fulfilled....

MATTHEW 9:12-13 [12], But when Jesus heard that, he said to them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Who did JESUS come to save and what do you think these scriptures mean?

Christ came to save sinners. That's what it means.

The Law is the diagnosis.
The Gospel is the medicine.

The Law is bad news, not good news.
The Law is the diagnosis that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".
It is not the cure, it is not the healing, it is not the medicine that will fix the problem. A diagnosis that we have a terminal illness called sin and death is bad news. The bad news is that we are sinners. And it doesn't matter how often you give that diagnosis, it's not going to change the circumstances, "You are going to die" is always "You are going to die"--saying it more often won't fix the problem.

The good news is that Christ came to save sinners, and I am the chief of sinners.
He is the Good Physician who comes to the sick, to sinners, diagnosed as sinners under the Law.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Christ came to save sinners. That's what it means.

The Law is the diagnosis.
The Gospel is the medicine.

The Law is bad news, not good news.
The Law is the diagnosis that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".
It is not the cure, it is not the healing, it is not the medicine that will fix the problem. A diagnosis that we have a terminal illness called sin and death is bad news. The bad news is that we are sinners. And it doesn't matter how often you give that diagnosis, it's not going to change the circumstances, "You are going to die" is always "You are going to die"--saying it more often won't fix the problem.

The good news is that Christ came to save sinners, and I am the chief of sinners.
He is the Good Physician who comes to the sick, to sinners, diagnosed as sinners under the Law.

-CryptoLutheran

Are you a sinner? What was JESUS teaching the Scribes and Pharisees in Matthew 9:10-13? How are you going to know you need a Physician if you do not know your sick?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The Law is the diagnosis.
The Gospel is the medicine.

Your getting closer...

The Law is the daignosis
God's Grace is the medicine.

The Law + Grace = The Gospel

The Gospel (Good news) is every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
 
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Jipsah

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It just means that how we see time is different from how the Lord sees time, his ways are higher than ours.
Sorry, but that's rubbish. What that's saying is essentially that in anything God-inspired, references to time are meaningless since God reckons time differently than we do. That first makes it certain that the Revelation was almost completely meaningless to the people to whom it was originaly given. On top of that, any reference to any period of time in it is meaningless to everyone, since it is using "God's time", and so "right now" can mean any period between a nanosecond and 1,000,000,000 years. If God intended to convey some period of time to the readers of the Revelation, seems like He'd have put it in terms of periods of time that were meaningful to human beings. If He didn't mean to convey any understandable period of time. then why use language that would create a false sense of urgency?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sorry, but that's rubbish. What that's saying is essentially that in anything God-inspired, references to time are meaningless since God reckons time differently than we do. That first makes it certain that the Revelation was almost completely meaningless to the people to whom it was originaly given. On top of that, any reference to any period of time in it is meaningless to everyone, since it is using "God's time", and so "right now" can mean any period between a nanosecond and 1,000,000,000 years. If God intended to convey some period of time to the readers of the Revelation, seems like He'd have put it in terms of periods of time that were meaningful to human beings. If He didn't mean to convey any understandable period of time. then why use language that would create a false sense of urgency?
God's Word is not rubbish. Were the prophecies in the Book of Danial written in Danial's time? *Danial 12:4-13. The book of Revelation follows the same things as the book of Danial. JOHN was the last of the Apostles. The books are the two great witnesses of the time of the end written for our admonition.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Are you a sinner?

I'm not just a sinner, I'm a wretched sinner. Lord have mercy on me.

What was JESUS teaching the Scribes and Pharisees in Matthew 9:10-13? How are you going to know you need a Physician if you do not know your sick?

Which is why there is preaching of the Law. The diagnosis that I am sick.

I do not love the Lord my God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength, and I do not love my neighbor as myself. I have sinned in thought, word, and deed, by what I have done and what I have left undone. Lord have mercy on me, a sinner. I confess that I am a sinner, God have mercy on me.

But if we left it at that, all that I have is the condemnation, the diagnosis, that I am a sinner, contemptible under the Law which is just because I am unjust.

That's why I need the Gospel, the Gospel is the only thing that gives me, a dead and wretched sinner, life and forgiveness and peace with God through Jesus Christ my Savior.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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