ARE YOU READY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

Status
Not open for further replies.

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
No.
Sorry, I have several problems with the Catholic church, but they are a Christian denomination and born again, Spirit filled, Scripture loving Christians can be found within it. I don't believe it is the beast, antichrist or anything else.

I don't believe, either, that we are meant to calculate the mark of the best. Scripture says that it is man's number. In the Bible, 6 is the number for mankind - created on the 6th day and also one less than 7 which is God's number, the number of perfection. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. 666 means, imo, someone who is only, and totally, human; with no soul. Just as 777 is God; totally and fully divine. In Isaiah 6 the seraphim did not sin "Holy is the Lord", but "Holy, Holy, Holy" - 3x holy. 3 is another number for God the Trinity.

Apart from this, all those who don't worship the first beast in Rev 13 are killed - those who do not have their names written in the book of life. This suggests that those whose names ARE in the book are not around at this point. Even if they were, if they refuse to worship the first beast, which any Christian surely would, they will be killed.
Those who are left, will be given a mark on their right hands or foreheads by the second beast.

The Catholic church is not a mark that can be put on anyone's right hand or forehead. And as Christians may not even be around when the beats is imposing his mark on everyone, I don't see why there is so much discussion - which creates a huge amount of anxiety for some - about it.

Your either did not read the OP or trying to make strawman arguments no one is talking about. Can I suggest you read the OP before commenting here? I to believe God's people are in every Church including the Roman Catholic Church. If you read the OP you would already know this. No one ever said that the Roman Catholic Church is the mark of the beast so I do not know what your talking about in this post here. Also scripture does not say it is a man number it says it is the number of a mans name. Please read Revelation 13:17-18 again.

God bless.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,914
7,993
NW England
✟1,053,016.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Your either did not read the OP or trying to make strawman arguments no one is talking about. Can I suggest you read the OP before commenting here?

I did.
I was responding to this post of yours.

I believe that the calculations of the names of the beast and the man to 666 to those who have "understanding" in Revelation 13:17-18 fits perfectly with all the other descriptive within the context of the surrounding scriptures in both Daniel and Revelation leading to the identity of the Roman Catholic Church.
So for claims of "educated guess" when many of the names of the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church add up precisely to the number 666 if this was to happen once you could possibly claim "educated guess" but when it happens many times with many names the probability of this being by chance becomes very slim. On top of this what other system is there for counting the number out of a name? I do not know of any so I am interested to see how you are going to do this and what you come up with. I look forward to hearing what you come up with now.

This suggested, if not stated, a link between 666 and the Catholic church.
I disagree.

No one ever said that the Roman Catholic Church is the mark of the beast

So why did you write the above, and talk about names of the Popes adding up to 666?

Also scripture does not say it is a man number it says it is the number of his name. Please read Revelation 13:17-18 again.
God bless.

My interlinear Green NT does not say that; it says it is a man's number.
Also, some translations have "number of a man."

The rest of the chapter is as I said; all the inhabitants of the earth - those whose names are not written in the book of life - will worship the first beast. The second beast will kill anyone who does not worship the statue of the first beast, and then he will put a mark on their foreheads or right hands.
It sounds as though there aren't any Christians around at this point - so it doesn't matter what 666 refers to.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I did.
I was responding to this post of yours.
What you posted and was responding to is not the OP. That starts on page 1 (first post)
This suggested, if not stated, a link between 666 and the Catholic church.I disagree.
Yes there is a link. Please read the OP and if you disagree prove why you disagree.
So why did you write the above, and talk about names of the Popes adding up to 666?
Please read REVELATION 13:17-18 and the OP and you will find out.
My interlinear Green NT does not say that; it says it is a man's number. Also, some translations have "number of a man."
Look at the scripture and read verse 17...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

So we are talking the same language if you do a word definition and of Greek words for "count" and "number" and look up lexical applications you will see that

"NUMBER" (G706); ἀριθμός; arithmos means numbers added up
"NAME" (G3686); ὄνομα; onoma means "name" (authority, character)
"COUNT" (G5585); ψηφίζω; psēphizō to compute: - count.

Ok so there is no mistake here. REVELATION 13:17-18 makes it very clear v17-18 says that it is the NUMBER OF THE BEASTS OR MANS NAME that we are to calculate 666 from.

REVELATION 13:18 shows that "Wisdom" is given to those who have "understanding" and the ability to count (calculate) the number of the beast or mans name by counting (calculating) the total number of the man to 666.
The rest of the chapter is as I said; all the inhabitants of the earth - those whose names are not written in the book of life - will worship the first beast. The second beast will kill anyone who does not worship the statue of the first beast, and then he will put a mark on their foreheads or right hands. It sounds as though there aren't any Christians around at this point - so it doesn't matter what 666 refers to.
It matters very much. God's people are still around. Read chapter 12 before 13 and chapter 14 after chapter 13 *REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12. You can also continue reading to the end and you will still find God's people *REVELATION 22:14

God bless.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,914
7,993
NW England
✟1,053,016.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What you posted and was responding to is not the OP. That starts on page 1 (first post)

Yes, I do realise that.
I was responding to the particular post that you wrote - even though I realise it wasn't addressed to me.
I wasn't aware I had to read a two year old OP to be able to comment on something that I disagreed with.

Yes there is a link. Please read the OP and if you disagree prove why you disagree.

Well no, actually.
I don't need to be able to PROVE why I disagree; I disagree.

Please read REVELATION 13:17-18 and the OP and you will find out.

Look at the scripture and read verse 17...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

This is no doubt my own fault for jumping into the thread, but I don't understand or wish to discuss end times. And I'm afraid that I'm not going to wade through a number of links - all of which were written in capitals, as was the title of the thread - which in nettiquette is shouting.
Writing things in capitals and bold print is hard to read and annoying.
If you were saying, as I believe you were, that there is a link between the Catholic church and the beast/antichrist; I disagree.

There are things I disagree with about the Catholic church - no denomination is perfect. I hate denominations - and I hate how Christians bash other denominations.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yes, I do realise that.
I was responding to the particular post that you wrote - even though I realise it wasn't addressed to me. I wasn't aware I had to read a two year old OP to be able to comment on something that I disagreed with.
The reason I suggested you read the OP was that you were making statements that had nothing to do with the conversation or the OP. That is why I knew you did not read the OP as everything you were saying was addressed in the OP which was saying the opposite of what you were posting and is addressed with the scriptures.
Well no, actually. I don't need to be able to PROVE why I disagree; I disagree.
Well you do not have to prove why you disagree if you do not want to, but keep in mind all that is provided here is scripture so it is God's Word not my words your disagreeing with and it is telling your not able to state why you disagree with what is provided in the OP if you have not bothered to spend the time to read what is shared in the OP. For me I believe the scriptures when they say only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 5:29 because God's sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follows them *JOHN 10:26-27.
This is no doubt my own fault for jumping into the thread, but I don't understand or wish to discuss end times.
Well you are free to join in or not it is up to you. It would help though if you spent some time reading the OP first though.
There are things I disagree with about the Catholic church - no denomination is perfect. I hate denominations - and I hate how Christians bash other denominations.
In all due respect dear friend, no one is bashing anyone. If you read the OP you would know this. Only God's Word has been provided here in this OP and God's Word is for his people in regards to end time events. They are God's Word (not mine) and they are a warning to us about receiving the Mark of the beast. God's Word is for God's people to prepare them for the second coming. The OP is sharing God's Word in relation to the Mark of the beast. If you read the OP however you would know this which is why I suggested reading it as your posts were making claims and statements no one is talking about to be honest.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,914
7,993
NW England
✟1,053,016.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The reason I suggested you read the OP was that you were making statements that had nothing to do with the conversation or the OP.

I know the OP says that God's people are found in churches everywhere. I was responding to a specific statement which appeared to say that the Catholic church is connected with the mark of the beast.
I disagree, and I don't believe Scripture teaches otherwise.
It may say some things which people have interpreted as teaching that; but that is not the same thing.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I know the OP says that God's people are found in churches everywhere. I was responding to a specific statement which appeared to say that the Catholic church is connected with the mark of the beast.
I disagree, and I don't believe Scripture teaches otherwise.
It may say some things which people have interpreted as teaching that; but that is not the same thing.
Then as posted earlier your welcome to prove your opinion. You claim that "I disagree, and I don't believe Scripture teaches otherwise". Yet you cannot show why you disagree when you are asked why you disagree. For me this is telling as your only providing an opinion that goes against the scriptures that have been provided by God as a help to his people who are in every Church including the Roman Catholic Church.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,914
7,993
NW England
✟1,053,016.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Then as posted earlier your welcome to prove your view. If you cannot then all your providing is an opinion that goes against scriptures that have been provided which are God's Word.

Scripture does not say that the Catholic church is the mark of the beast.
The mark will be put on a person's forehead or right hand, and no one will be able to buy or sell without it.
It's not possible to put the Catholic church onto someone's forehead.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Scripture does not say that the Catholic church is the mark of the beast.The mark will be put on a person's forehead or right hand, and no one will be able to buy or sell without it. It's not possible to put the Catholic church onto someone's forehead.
Once again no one has said that the Roman Catholic Church is the mark of the beast. If you read the OP you would know this. Go and read it. Your saying things no one is talking about or believes. If we are in agreement what is your argument?
 
Upvote 0

7xlightray

Newbie
Jun 30, 2013
515
29
✟15,256.00
Faith
Christian
My disagreement was in your claims to "educated guess". I believe that the calculations of the names of the beast and the man to 666 to those who have "understanding" in Revelation 13:17-18 fits perfectly with all the other descriptive within the context of the surrounding scriptures in both Daniel and Revelation leading to the identity of the Roman Catholic Church. I believe that there is a reason why Roman Numerals are taught throughout the school system to this present day. So for claims of "educated guess" when many of the names of the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church add up precisely to the number 666 if this was to happen once you could possibly claim "educated guess" but when it happens many times with many names the probability of this being by chance becomes very slim (100% not an educated guess). On top of this what other system is there for counting the number out of a name? I do not know of any so I am interested to see how you are going to do this and what you come up with. I look forward to hearing what you come up with now.


Do you disagree with my definition of "educated guess," for you did not satisfy that
definition?​

Is one able to show..
Where God told us to use the Roman numeral system,
and
that we are to calculate a name (of a man) to produce 666?

..because His instructions read..

"calculate the number of the beast"

That's it, that's all we're to do.

Or is there another greater than the Roman Catholic Church, that they may change the
instructions of God,
in the book of
Revelation?

On top of this what other system is there for counting the number out of a name? I do not know of any so I am interested to see how you are going to do this and what you come up with. I look forward to hearing what you come up with now.
Do you believe..
don't worry child, I told you in my word, all that you need for life, I have provided.
Where is a true sincere, and honorable dragon-Beast slayers, who is willing to live and die by the Sword?​
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Do you disagree with my definition of "educated guess," for you did not satisfy that definition? Is one able to show.. Where God told us to use the Roman numeral system, and that we are to calculate a name (of a man) to produce 666? ..because His instructions read.. "calculate the number of the beast". That's it, that's all we're to do. Or is there another greater than the Roman Catholic Church, that they may change the instructions of God, in the book of Revelation?

I do not need to satisfy you dear friend as the scriptures have been satisfied. If you believe you have a better interpretation your welcome to provide it so we can discuss it. For some reason you refuse to do so.

We should keep in mind however that the # 666 relationship of the NUMBER OF HIS NAME in REVELATION 13:17-18 fits in both Greek, Latin, and Hebrew. Even this however which fits 100% perfectly is only one relatively small, yet important indicator that the Papacy is the Antichrist and the beast from the sea of Revelation 13. This association by itself proves little, as 666 can fit other people using the same methods. All the other biblical characteristics of the Antichrist must be considered and met as well, then this association becomes significant which it does.

Yet it is God's Word not mine that says...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

Ok so there is no mistake here. REVELATION 13:17-18 makes it very clear v17-18 says that it is the NUMBER OF THE BEASTS OR MANS NAME that we are to calculate 666 from.

REVELATION 13:18 shows that "Wisdom" is given to those who have "understanding" and the ability to count (calculate) the number of the beast or mans name by counting (calculating) the total number of the man to 666.

Now dear friend I believe that God who has given "understanding" to is in the use of Roman numberals which was used by the Romans, by the Greeks and by the early Church who speaks in latin and also is continued to be taught in all our schools to this very present day. Have you ever wondered what use there is to learning Roman numerals at school? Where are you going to use that in real life? - Yep REVELATION 13:17-18. God is giving understanding.

.................

The numeric equivalents of Greek letters can also be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica under "Languages of the World"

The ancient Greek word for "the Latin speaking man" is LATEINOS

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

NOTE: Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church. Church Documents are usually published first in Latin, and then translated from the Latin into other languages. The association of "Lateinos" with 666 was first suggested by Irenæus (ca. 130-202 A.D.) who proposed in his Against Heresies that it might be the name of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:7.

Then also Lateinos has the number six hundred and sixty-six; and it is a very probable [solution], this being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For the Latins are they who at present bear rule: I will not, however, make any boast over this [coincidence].

Source: Against Heresies, by Irenæus, Book 5, chapter 30, paragraph 3.
St. Irenaeus biography online at the New Advent Catholic web site.

The ancient Greek for "The Latin Kingdom" is HE LATINE BASILEIA BASILEIA is Strong's # G932 The ancient Greek for

H = 0 (transliterated)
E = 8 eta

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
E = 8 eta

B = 2 beta
A = 1 alpha
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
L = 30 lambda
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
A = 1 alpha
666

"Italian Church" is ITALIKA EKKLESIA EKKLESIA is Strong's # G1577

I = 10 iota
T = 300 tau
A = 1 alpha
L = 30 lambda
I = 10 iota
K = 20 kappa
A = 1 alpha

E = 5 epsilon
K = 20 kappa
K = 20 kappa
L = 30 lambda
E = 8 eta
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
A = 1 alpha
666

And in ancient Greek the word APOSTATES And in ancient Greek
the word for "tradition"

A = 1 alpha
P = 80 pi
O = 70 omicron
ST = 6 stigma*
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 8 eta
S = 200 sigma
666
* Stigma is a now obsolete Greek character, but it appears in the New Testament in Rev 13:18 to give the value 666 (chi xi stigma - See Strong's Concordance, # G5516).

And in ancient Greek the word for "tradition" PARADOSIS Strong's # G3862
PARADOSIS Strong's # G3862

P
= 80 pi
A = 1 alpha
R = 100 rho
A = 1 alpha
D = 4 delta
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
S = 200 sigma

666

VICARIUS FILII DEI

THE LITERAL MEANING: VICARIUS - substituting for, or in place of FILII - means son DEI - means GOD

V
= 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = no value
R = no value
I = 1
U/V = 5
S = no value

F
= no value
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1

D = 500
E = no value
I = 1

--------
112 + 53 + 501 = 666

666

........................

DUX CLERI

translated means Captain of the Clergy LUDOVICUS translated means Vicar of the Court

D
= 500
U = 5
X = 10

C = 100
L = 50
E = no value
R = no value
I = 1
----------------
666

L
= 50
U = 5
D = 500
O = no value
V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
U = 5
S = no value
----------------
666

...................

The numeric equivalents of Hebrew letters can be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica under "Languages of the World", Table 50.

ROMIITH
means the Roman Kingdom

R = 200 resh
O = 6 waw (vav)
M = 40 mem
I = 10 yod
I = 10 yod
TH = 400 taw
--------------
666

ROMITI
means the Roman Man

R = 200 resh
O = 6 waw (vav)
M = 40 mem
I = 10 yod
T = 400 taw
I = 10 yod
----------
666

Note:
  • Lateinos, Ecclesia Italika, and Romith are cited as possible solutions by Johannes Gerhard (1582-1637), a Lutheran, in his Adnotationes in Apocalypsin, page 110.
  • Romith, Vicarius Filii Dei, Dux Cleri, Ordinarius Ovilis Christi Pastor, and Dic Lux are cited by the rector of Berlin, Andreas Helwig [or Helwich] (1572-1643) in his Antichristus Romanus, in proprio suo nomine, numerum illum Apocalypticum (DCLXVI) continente proditus, published in 1612 in Wittenberg.
  • Dux Cleri is cited by Walter Brute (or Britte), a fourteenth century follower of Wycliff, in his Registrum, page 356.
  • Ludovicus was proposed by James Bicheno (d. 1831), a British minister and author, applying it at the time to the French King Louis XIV, as the two-horned beast from the earth.
  • He Latine Basileia and Lateinos are cited by Alexander Campbell (1788-1866), founder of the Disciples of Christ, in A Debate on the Roman Catholic Religion of 1837
................

Now dear friend as you can see, I believe God has given "understanding" to those who learn Roman numerals from our school days. Calculating the man and beasts name works out 100 % perfectly pointing the number of the Beast and man to the Roman Catholic Church. This however is one of many fulfilled signs in the scripture that you disagree with without reason and without response.

If you have a better method for calculating the beast and mans name I am all ears and asked you to share it with us for some time now but you seem to be refusing to do so. Keep in mind once more your interpretation needs to also fulfill all the other scriptures as this OP does to make it credible.

Look forward to your response.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

7xlightray

Newbie
Jun 30, 2013
515
29
✟15,256.00
Faith
Christian
I do not need to satisfy you dear friend as the scriptures have been satisfied. If you believe you have a better interpretation your welcome to provide it so we can discuss it. For some reason you refuse to do so.

We should keep in mind however that the # 666 relationship of the NUMBER OF HIS NAME in REVELATION 13:17-18 fits in both Greek, Latin, and Hebrew. Even this however which fits 100% perfectly is only one relatively small, yet important indicator that the Papacy is the Antichrist and the beast from the sea of Revelation 13. This association by itself proves little, as 666 can fit other people using the same methods. All the other biblical characteristics of the Antichrist must be considered and met as well, then this association becomes significant which it does.

Yet it is God's Word not mine that says...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

Ok so there is no mistake here. REVELATION 13:17-18 makes it very clear v17-18 says that it is the NUMBER OF THE BEASTS OR MANS NAME that we are to calculate 666 from.

REVELATION 13:18 shows that "Wisdom" is given to those who have "understanding" and the ability to count (calculate) the number of the beast or mans name by counting (calculating) the total number of the man to 666.

Now dear friend I believe that God who has given "understanding" to is in the use of Roman numberals which was used by the Romans, by the Greeks and by the early Church who speaks in latin and also is continued to be taught in all our schools to this very present day. Have you ever wondered what use there is to learning Roman numerals at school? Where are you going to use that in real life? - Yep REVELATION 13:17-18. God is giving understanding.

.................

The numeric equivalents of Greek letters can also be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica under "Languages of the World"

The ancient Greek word for "the Latin speaking man" is LATEINOS

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

NOTE: Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church. Church Documents are usually published first in Latin, and then translated from the Latin into other languages. The association of "Lateinos" with 666 was first suggested by Irenæus (ca. 130-202 A.D.) who proposed in his Against Heresies that it might be the name of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:7.

Then also Lateinos has the number six hundred and sixty-six; and it is a very probable [solution], this being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For the Latins are they who at present bear rule: I will not, however, make any boast over this [coincidence].

Source: Against Heresies, by Irenæus, Book 5, chapter 30, paragraph 3.
St. Irenaeus biography online at the New Advent Catholic web site.

The ancient Greek for "The Latin Kingdom" is HE LATINE BASILEIA BASILEIA is Strong's # G932 The ancient Greek for

H = 0 (transliterated)
E = 8 eta

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
E = 8 eta

B = 2 beta
A = 1 alpha
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
L = 30 lambda
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
A = 1 alpha
666

"Italian Church" is ITALIKA EKKLESIA EKKLESIA is Strong's # G1577

I = 10 iota
T = 300 tau
A = 1 alpha
L = 30 lambda
I = 10 iota
K = 20 kappa
A = 1 alpha

E = 5 epsilon
K = 20 kappa
K = 20 kappa
L = 30 lambda
E = 8 eta
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
A = 1 alpha
666

And in ancient Greek the word APOSTATES And in ancient Greek
the word for "tradition"

A = 1 alpha
P = 80 pi
O = 70 omicron
ST = 6 stigma*
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 8 eta
S = 200 sigma
666
* Stigma is a now obsolete Greek character, but it appears in the New Testament in Rev 13:18 to give the value 666 (chi xi stigma - See Strong's Concordance, # G5516).

And in ancient Greek the word for "tradition" PARADOSIS Strong's # G3862
PARADOSIS Strong's # G3862

P
= 80 pi
A = 1 alpha
R = 100 rho
A = 1 alpha
D = 4 delta
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
S = 200 sigma

666

VICARIUS FILII DEI

THE LITERAL MEANING: VICARIUS - substituting for, or in place of FILII - means son DEI - means GOD

V
= 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = no value
R = no value
I = 1
U/V = 5
S = no value

F
= no value
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1

D = 500
E = no value
I = 1

--------
112 + 53 + 501 = 666

666

........................

DUX CLERI

translated means Captain of the Clergy LUDOVICUS translated means Vicar of the Court

D
= 500
U = 5
X = 10

C = 100
L = 50
E = no value
R = no value
I = 1
----------------
666

L
= 50
U = 5
D = 500
O = no value
V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
U = 5
S = no value
----------------
666

...................

The numeric equivalents of Hebrew letters can be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica under "Languages of the World", Table 50.

ROMIITH
means the Roman Kingdom

R = 200 resh
O = 6 waw (vav)
M = 40 mem
I = 10 yod
I = 10 yod
TH = 400 taw
--------------
666

ROMITI
means the Roman Man

R = 200 resh
O = 6 waw (vav)
M = 40 mem
I = 10 yod
T = 400 taw
I = 10 yod
----------
666

Note:
  • Lateinos, Ecclesia Italika, and Romith are cited as possible solutions by Johannes Gerhard (1582-1637), a Lutheran, in his Adnotationes in Apocalypsin, page 110.
  • Romith, Vicarius Filii Dei, Dux Cleri, Ordinarius Ovilis Christi Pastor, and Dic Lux are cited by the rector of Berlin, Andreas Helwig [or Helwich] (1572-1643) in his Antichristus Romanus, in proprio suo nomine, numerum illum Apocalypticum (DCLXVI) continente proditus, published in 1612 in Wittenberg.
  • Dux Cleri is cited by Walter Brute (or Britte), a fourteenth century follower of Wycliff, in his Registrum, page 356.
  • Ludovicus was proposed by James Bicheno (d. 1831), a British minister and author, applying it at the time to the French King Louis XIV, as the two-horned beast from the earth.
  • He Latine Basileia and Lateinos are cited by Alexander Campbell (1788-1866), founder of the Disciples of Christ, in A Debate on the Roman Catholic Religion of 1837
Now dear friend at you can see I believe God has given "understanding" to those who learn Roman numerals from school. Calculating the man and beasts name works out 100 % perfectly pointing the number of the Beast and man to the Roman Catholic Church. This however is one of many fulfilled signs in the scripture that you disagree with without reason and without response.

If you have a better method for calculating the beast and man name I am all ears and asked you to share it with us for some time now but you seem to be refusing to do so. Keep in mind once more your interpretation needs to also fulfill all the other scriptures as this OP does to make it credible.

Look forward to your response.
Actually, I did say we needed to clear some things up first.
Do you disagree with my definition of "educated guess"?

Both the number and the name in verse 17, are the beast's number and name, not a man's.
Nor does it even say the man in verse 18, is the beast/man in verse 17.

Nor does it say the man's number 666 is the beast's number, look closely at the Greek, they are separate sentences, joined by a connecting related ";" some put.
"..calculate the number of the beast; number for a man's it is." (..and do you hear the clue?).

It does not say count the name of the beast, if anything it would be count the number of his name, which you say is 666.

If the man's number (666) is the beast's number, then we are to calculate 666..
calculate (= Roman numeral system) the number (= 666) of the beast
..how does that work?
His number and name are not the same, but carry a similar meaning, and are tightly related.

Actually, I've told you where the calculation is, and all three verses speak the same, two are identical, and the other confirms. Two to three witness, right there. My educated guess is, you did not see the calculation, you did not respond.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Actually, I did say we needed to clear some things up first.
Do you disagree with my definition of "educated guess"?

Both the number and the name in verse 17, are the beast's number and name, not a man's.
Nor does it even say the man in verse 18, is the beast/man in verse 17.

Nor does it say the man's number 666 is the beast's number, look closely at the Greek, they are separate sentences, joined by a connecting related ";" some put.
"..calculate the number of the beast; number for a man's it is." (..and do you hear the clue?).

It does not say count the name of the beast, if anything it would be count the number of his name, which you say is 666.

If the man's number (666) is the beast's number, then we are to calculate 666..
calculate (= Roman numeral system) the number (= 666) of the beast
..how does that work?
His number and name are not the same, but carry a similar meaning, and are tightly related.

Actually, I've told you where the calculation is, and all three verses speak the same, two are identical, and the other confirms. Two to three witness, right there. My educated guess is, you did not see the calculation, you did not respond.

Actually, no dear friend the scripture reads like this as posted earlier...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

Ok so there is no mistake here. REVELATION 13:17-18 makes it very clear v17-18 says that it is the NUMBER OF THE BEASTS OR MANS NAME that we are to calculate 666 from.

REVELATION 13:18 shows that "Wisdom" is given to those who have "understanding" and the ability to count (calculate) the number of the beast or mans name by counting (calculating) the total number of the man to 666.

According to scripture his number and is to be calculated from the name to get a total of 666. The above are God's Word dear friend not mine. If you have an alternative version let's hear it. Don't forget your interpretation needs also harmonize all other aspects of the scriptures as well. It is this same man that is connected to the beast in DANIEL 7:8; 21-25.

Did you read the OP here? Do you know what Beasts and Horns represent in bible prophecy and is the beasts horn a part of the beast?

Look forward to your response.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

7xlightray

Newbie
Jun 30, 2013
515
29
✟15,256.00
Faith
Christian
Actually, no dear friend the scripture reads like this as posted earlier...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

Ok so there is no mistake here. REVELATION 13:17-18 makes it very clear v17-18 says that it is the NUMBER OF THE BEASTS OR MANS NAME that we are to calculate 666 from.

REVELATION 13:18 shows that "Wisdom" is given to those who have "understanding" and the ability to count (calculate) the number of the beast or mans name by counting (calculating) the total number of the man to 666.

According to scripture his number and is to be calculated from the name to get a total of 666. The above are God's Word dear friend not mine. If you have an alternative version let's hear it. Don't forget your interpretation needs also harmonize all other aspects of the scriptures as well. It is this same man that is connected to the beast in DANIEL 7:8; 21-25.

Did you read the OP here? Do you know what Beasts and Horns represent in bible prophecy and is the beasts horn a part of the beast?

Look forward to your response.
Maybe you only understand Capital Letters, if that be the case, then let's try this..

Yes, there is a name and a number, but we are told to calculate the NUMBER, not a name, nor a name of a man, but what you are doing is.. "calculate the Number (John?, Paul?, Pope?) of the beast."
REVELATION 13:18 Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

So, if 666 is the number, and we are to calculate this number (666), then explain in your own words how you change it to calculate a man's name instead of a number?
And if 666 is the number of the beast, explain this..

calculate the Number (666) of the beast.

All you're doing is highlighting some scripture in red, which says nothing about switching a number for a name to calculate. So, you will have to show and explain with PINPOINT ACCURACY, why you change it to calculating a man's NAME, when we are to calculate a NUMBER?
Why are YOU CHANGING it?

Number = 666? John?, Paul?, Pope?
Name = John?, Paul?, Pope? 666?
REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME [..what goes here?] OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER [..what goes here?] OF HIS NAME [..what goes here?].[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER [..what goes here?] of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Maybe you only understand Capital Letters, if that be the case, then let's try this..

Yes, there is a name and a number, but we are told to calculate the NUMBER, not a name, nor a name of a man, but what you are doing is.. "calculate the Number (John?, Paul?, Pope?) of the beast."
REVELATION 13:18 Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

So, if 666 is the number, and we are to calculate this number (666), then explain in your own words how you change it to calculate a man's name instead of a number?
And if 666 is the number of the beast, explain this..

calculate the Number (666) of the beast.

All you're doing is highlighting some scripture in red, which says nothing about switching a number for a name to calculate. So, you will have to show and explain with PINPOINT ACCURACY, why you change it to calculating a man's NAME, when we are to calculate a NUMBER?
Why are YOU CHANGING it?

Number = 666? John?, Paul?, Pope?
Name = John?, Paul?, Pope? 666?
REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME [..what goes here?] OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER [..what goes here?] OF HIS NAME [..what goes here?].[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER [..what goes here?] of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).​


I am sorry you still do not get it dear friend. As posted earlier we must read what the scriptures say and not what we want to put into them. The scripture says in context that it is those who receive the beasts name or the number of his name that receive the beasts mark that we are warned against receiving. The NUMBER OF HIS NAME (the beast) we are to calculate is the number of a man...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

REVELATION 13:18 shows that "Wisdom" is given to those who have "understanding" and the ability to count (calculate) the number of the beast or mans name by counting (calculating) the total number of the man to 666.

According to scripture his number and is to be calculated from the name to get a total of 666. Many calculations are already provided above in Hebrew, Greek and Latin which are all the languages used as well as the Roman numerals all calculating and to pointing to the name of the popes and the Roman Catholic Church through the title of the pope being 666 as already provided here linked which were also agreed to by various commentaries here linked.

Now all the calculation work out 100%, all the calculations are applied to Greek, Hebrew and Latin calculated with Roman numerals and work out 100%. The interpretation fits with all the other scriptures provided 100%. The interpretation also agrees with the Greek 100%. The scholarly commentaries agree with the application of Roman numerals to the name of the man applied with Roman numerals. Now please if you have something better that matches with all the scriptures already provided in this OP I am all ears but when asked you have only refused to share your view so we can discuss it.

I asked you a question earlier which is relevant to your previous post and this one. Is there a reason you chose not to answer it? I asked you if you read the OP here and do you know what Beasts and Horns represent in bible prophecy and is the beasts horn a part of the beast? What is your view. I ask this question as it is relevant to your earlier questions and also to your post here.

Also you do know that my posts are not to individual popes right but to popes collectively or the title of the popes that are a part of the beast right?

.................

PS. What your providing above does not make sense to the context of scripture reference to REVELATION 13:17-18 as it is not the total 666 that we are to start with to find the beast, it is the number we are to end with by counting up (ψηφίζω (psēphizō) total or computing) the number of his name. 666 therefore is what the name calculates or totals to, not the starting point. What and how are you going to identify as the beast or Revelation 13 with the # 666 without the texts instruction that it must first be calculated and if it must first be calculated how are you going to do it?

I will wait for your response before continuing.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

7xlightray

Newbie
Jun 30, 2013
515
29
✟15,256.00
Faith
Christian
I am sorry you still do not get it dear friend. As posted earlier we must read what the scriptures say and not what we want to put into them. The scripture says in context that it is those who receive the beasts name or the number of his name that receive the beasts mark that we are warned against receiving. The NUMBER OF HIS NAME (the beast) we are to calculate is the number of a man...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

REVELATION 13:18 shows that "Wisdom" is given to those who have "understanding" and the ability to count (calculate) the number of the beast or mans name by counting (calculating) the total number of the man to 666.

According to scripture his number and is to be calculated from the name to get a total of 666. Many calculations are already provided above in Hebrew, Greek and Latin which are all the languages used as well as the Roman numerals all calculating and to pointing to the name of the popes and the Roman Catholic Church through the title of the pope being 666 as already provided here linked which were also agreed to by various commentaries here linked.

I asked you a question earlier which is relevant to your previous post and this one. Is there a reason you chose not to answer it? I asked you if you read the OP here and do you know what Beasts and Horns represent in bible prophecy and is the beasts horn a part of the beast? What is your view. I ask this question as it is relevant to your earlier questions and also to your post here.

Also you do know that my posts are not to individual popes right but to popes collectively that are a part of the beast right?

.................

PS. What your providing above does not make sense to the context of scripture reference to REVELATION 13:17-18 as it is not the total 666 that we are to start with to find the beast, it is the number we are to end with by counting up (ψηφίζω (psēphizō) total or computing) the number of his name. 666 therefore is what the name calculates or totals to, not the starting point. What and how are you going to identify as the beast or Revelation 13 with the # 666 without the texts instruction that it must first be calculated and if it must first be calculated how are you going to do it?

I will wait for your response before continuing.
You wanted to discuss your OP, I'm willing, if you are.
Yes I understand what you are doing, I have known about this Roman, Greek, Hebrew numeral system for many years now.

If you are willing, lets try this, one step at a time.
REVELATION 13:17 ..that had the mark, or the NAME [..neuter ..this belongs to the beast..] of the [..neuter] BEAST [..neuter..speaking of the beast], OR the number OF HIS [..neuter..the beast. Nothing about a man here. Still speaking of the beast] NAME [..neuter..this belongs to the beast, nothing about a man, or anyone else here].​

The neuter shows who it belongs to.
The neuter "name" and the neuter "his" belongs to the neuter "beast"
There is no man, or anyone else in this sentence section.​
 
  • Like
Reactions: pasifika
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You wanted to discuss your OP, I'm willing, if you are.
Yes I understand what you are doing, I have known about this Roman, Greek, Hebrew numeral system for many years now.

If you are willing, lets try this, one step at a time.
REVELATION 13:17 ..that had the mark, or the NAME [..neuter ..this belongs to the beast..] of the [..neuter] BEAST [..neuter..speaking of the beast], OR the number OF HIS [..neuter..the beast. Nothing about a man here. Still speaking of the beast] NAME [..neuter..this belongs to the beast, nothing about a man, or anyone else here].​

The neuter shows who it belongs to.
The neuter "name" and the neuter "his" belongs to the neuter "beast"
There is no man, or anyone else in this sentence section.​

Thanks but I do not need a lesson in Greek please read the next sentence v18 in context with v17 so let's not stop at v17 as further instruction is provided.

Here let's read them together again...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST: FOR IT IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

Note: the first use of number [Noun-Accusative Masculine Singular] (v18) that is to be calculated is accusative to the beast (Noun Genitive neuter Singular) but the number (repeated the second time) and the second use of the number is nominative to the man meaning the man's number. The mans number that is to be calculated is to the verb which is present indicative active of the calculated number that totals 666 which is a personal possessive 3rd person singular meaning John is referring to the number being to the man in the 3rd person as well as the beast. Another words you get the man's number you identify the beast.

There is a reason why I asked you what the beast symbolizes in bible prophecy and the horn that is connected to a beast. Do you know what it means and how the man might be connected to the beast?

If you want to provide your view lets' discuss it. I have provided mine already and have asked you many time now to share your view so we can discuss it but am still waiting just the same I have asked you questions in my posts but still waiting.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

7xlightray

Newbie
Jun 30, 2013
515
29
✟15,256.00
Faith
Christian
Thanks but I do not need a lesson in Greek please read the next sentence v18 in context with v17 so let's not stop at v17 as further instruction is provided.

Here let's read them together again...

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST: FOR IT IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

Note: the first use of number [N-AMS] (v18) that is to be calculated is accusative to the beast (neuter N-GNS) but the number (repeated twice) and the second use of the number is to the man which is nominative [N-GMS] meaning the man's number. The mans number that is to be calculated is to the verb which is present indicative active of the calculated number that totals 666 which is a personal possessive 3rd person singular [PPro-GN3S] meaning John is referring to the number being to the man in the 3rd person as well as the beast. Another words you get the man's number you identify the beast.

There is a reason why I asked you what the beast symbolizes in bible prophecy and the horn that is connected to a beast. Do you know what it means and how the man might be connected to the beast?

If you want to provide your view lets' discuss it. I have provided mine already and have asked you many time now to share your view so we can discuss it but am still waiting just the same I have asked you questions in my posts but still waiting.

Hope this helps.
Sorry, my fault, you have been very patient, and that, I'm extremely thankful for.

As for other topics (there is a spiritual kingdom, and man of sin, but it's much bigger than you think (while the Lord delayed His return, how many virgins fell asleep? When the call went out, how many needed to be woken up? All of them!). More of a Red pill, Blue pill sort of thing, too bitter to swallow. And it's only a snapshot which I am offering at this time; "the name of the beast", but you will have to see for yourself, which I am trying to lead you to, and through), I would like to focus in on one thing: calculation; number; name.

Again, forgive me, It was not my intent to give Greek lessons (that did not enter my mind), but to show that there must be a second number.

Let me ask you, which would you prefer to find out first, the number, or the calculation?​
 
Upvote 0

sparow

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,552
428
85
✟488,858.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Your either did not read the OP or trying to make strawman arguments no one is talking about. Can I suggest you read the OP before commenting here? I to believe God's people are in every Church including the Roman Catholic Church. If you read the OP you would already know this. No one ever said that the Roman Catholic Church is the mark of the beast so I do not know what your talking about in this post here. Also scripture does not say it is a man number it says it is the number of a mans name. Please read Revelation 13:17-18 again.

God bless.


I am not ready for the the Mark of the Beast, I am ready for the seal of God, at least that is my choice, but I am curious bout the Mark of the beast, how would it enable me to buy or sell or prevent me from buying and selling; unless it involved law or destitution?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,534
4,827
57
Oregon
✟799,454.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Revelation speaks of everyone receiving a mark that signifies unity with the evil Beast.

Everyone knows that a new "mark" arose among Christianity in recent centuries that for the first time in history caused some people to break away from Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection. This unique mark could be the one foreseen in Revelation.

History demonstrates that while the Christian Church observed Sunday celebration of the Lord's Resurrection from the first century onward, a new practice began "marking" certain people starting in 1860, when a new sect began introducing a practice that did not originate among the early Church up to that time: a mass boycott of Celebrating the Lord's Resurrection on Sunday.

I'm becoming convinced that the Saturday Worship that this group promotes instead of Sunday is so unique in Christian history as to represent a possible Mark of the Beast. The sect that launched the new movement even has a special prophet: Ellen G. White. And we all know that a false prophet figures large in the book of Revelation.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.