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ARE YOU READY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

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Ed Parenteau

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Hi Ed, according to the scriptures... Gods' Word is for God's people living in the now. God is the God of the living not the dead. They were not written just for the disciples but for our admonition upon who the ends of the world have come. Have all the signs been fulfilled? Nope. Let me know if I have not understood your post.

God bless
Let's make sure we are accurate in our understanding exactly what is stated about the application of all scripture. Then we can see the purpose of scripture.
2 Timothy 3:6 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
I don't know of any teaching that says the bible is to be re interpreted in the "now". I know it's not exactly what you said, but you did re interpreted 1 Corinthians 10:11 to apply to you, did you not? "Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come."
But that makes my point. Paul is speaking in the first person perfect indicative active which means something that is both past in Paul's day and still present in Paul's day. There is no indication that the "end of the ages" would extend to a far distant future generation.
You see, I do believe that all scripture has been fulfilled, otherwise the bible is untrue. I believe you saw that train coming if you were to believe the grammar that God inspired. Futurism makes the bible inconsistent with itself, denies the grammar used denies the time statements and goes against the admonishment that Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Let's make sure we are accurate in our understanding exactly what is stated about the application of all scripture. Then we can see the purpose of scripture.
2 Timothy 3:6 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
I don't know of any teaching that says the bible is to be re interpreted in the "now". I know it's not exactly what you said, but you did re interpreted 1 Corinthians 10:11 to apply to you, did you not? "Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come."
But that makes my point. Paul is speaking in the first person perfect indicative active which means something that is both past in Paul's day and still present in Paul's day. There is no indication that the "end of the ages" would extend to a far distant future generation.
You see, I do believe that all scripture has been fulfilled, otherwise the bible is untrue. I believe you saw that train coming if you were to believe the grammar that God inspired. Futurism makes the bible inconsistent with itself, denies the grammar used denies the time statements and goes against the admonishment that Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Already done Ed. Of course there are historical aspects of scripture but even these are all written for our (the livings) admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come * 1 CORINTHIANS 10:11. As you have also posted "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work". These scriptures are for not for those who are dead but for those who are living as God is not the God of the dead but of the living according to the scriptures *MATTHEW 22:32. God's living do not live by bread alone dear friend but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God *MATTHEW 4:4. Those who seek to know God's Word as a book will never know it as the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritual things are spiritually discerned according to the scriptures *1 CORINTHIANS 2:14. Only God can teach us (the living) His Word through His Spirit *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; 1 JOHN 2:27; HEBREWS 8:11. In the days of JESUS it was not the Scribes and Pharisees that knew God's Word it was the humble fisherman. We cannot know God's Word by trying to understand it through the ways and teachings of the world. We need to seek JESUS for His Spirit that he may guide us and teach us his Word. All scripture has not been fulfilled dear friend or we would not still be here in this earth, JESUS would have come and all the signs of his coming would have already been fulfilled.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
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Ed Parenteau

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Matthew 22: 31“But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
Seemingly, according to the way you present the living, how can God be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Didn't they die? So, I have no clue what you mean.
I think what your saying is that the bible is all hidden meanings that can't be determined by the Greek language that was used. Is that correct?
Then why would anyone quote the bible if it didn't mean what it said?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Matthew 22: 31“But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
Seemingly, according to the way you present the living, how can God be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Didn't they die? So, I have no clue what you mean.
I think what your saying is that the bible is all hidden meanings that can't be determined by the Greek language that was used. Is that correct?
Then why would anyone quote the bible if it didn't mean what it said?

Quite easily Ed. These are the fathers of God's ISRAEL and God's covenant and promise to Abraham who is the father of Isaac who is the father of Jacob who God changed his name to ISRAEL and those who believe and follow God's Word, in the new covenant who is to those who make up God's ISRAEL who are living and not the dead. Why your trying to argue that the scriptures are not for the living seems strange to me.
 
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Ed Parenteau

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OK, it just seems that you are referring to those who are alive in the flesh at any given time which is not what Matt 22: 32 is referring to. It tells us that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive even though they died. Everyone from the Apostles forward who Christ has saved are alive. In either case, what does that have to do with negating the God breathed grammar.
 
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7xlightray

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The NUMBER of the BEAST (first beast) is the NUMBER of a MAN and his number is 666 *REVELATION 13:18

Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church which uses the Latin Vulgate Bible. Roman numerals are used to calculate the Beast's number which is the number of a man that equals 666.

* If you wish to know what each letter represents in ROMAN NUMERALS Click here in wiki.

The NUMBER of the BEAST (first beast) is the NUMBER of a MAN and his number is 666

A few of many titles of the Pope who is the head of the Catholic Church...

*LATEINOS = 666 (Latin speaking man)
*VICARIUS FILII DEI = 112+53+501 = 666 (Popes titles in place of the Son of God)
*Dux Cleri = 515+151 = 666 (Popes titles in Latin which means Captain of the Clergy)
*LUDOVICUS = 666 (Popes titles in Latin Vicar of the court)
*HE LATINE BASILEIA = 666 (Latin kingdom)
*ITALIKA EKKLESIA = 666 (Italian Church)

*FOR A DETIALED BREAK DOWN OF 666 AND MANY MORE TITLES CLICK THE SOURCE HERE*
It looks like you're ready to start slaying some dragon-beasts yourself, though how would one find a dragon-beast, if they were ill-prepared, not knowing where to look?

So, not being on the attack, yet "Roman numerals are used to calculate the Beast's number" is but a thrust into the dark.

"Not using God's word to interpret God's word, can lead a servant of God astray" - this I am certain you already know, but why I mention it.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It looks like you're ready to start slaying some dragon-beasts yourself, though how would one find a dragon-beast, if they were ill-prepared, not knowing where to look?

So, not being on the attack, yet "Roman numerals are used to calculate the Beast's number" is but a thrust into the dark.

"Not using God's word to interpret God's word, can lead a servant of God astray" - this I am certain you already know, but why I mention it.

God's Word is used to interpret God's Word here as not prophecy is of any private interpretation. Roman numerals were the official counting system of the Roman empire in the days of JESUS and the Apostles and the Roman Catholic Church.
 
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7xlightray

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God's Word is used to interpret God's Word here as not prophecy is of any private interpretation. Roman numerals were the official counting system of the Roman empire in the days of JESUS and the Apostles and the Roman Catholic Church.
But where are we told that the calculation is the Roman numeral system?
Using Roman (Greek, or Hebrew) numerals would not be using God's word, not unless God's word said to use such things,
...and did it?

What are we missing in this verse? The calculation!
So, we could look outside of God's word to find this calculation, as you have done so here, or we could look in God's word for this calculation. That's what I meant by using God's word.

Otherwise, how does this show, or prove "Roman numerals were the official counting system of the Roman empire in the days of JESUS and the Apostles and the Roman Catholic Church" that we are to use such a thing in Rev. 13:18? Nothing to stand on here, but an educated guess, whether it's a good one, or not.
Is it not best to stay within God's word at all cost, if possible?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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But where are we told that the calculation is the Roman numeral system?
Using Roman (Greek, or Hebrew) numerals would not be using God's word, not unless God's word said to use such things,
...and did it?

What are we missing in this verse? The calculation!
So, we could look outside of God's word to find this calculation, as you have done so here, or we could look in God's word for this calculation. That's what I meant by using God's word.

Otherwise, how does this show, or prove "Roman numerals were the official counting system of the Roman empire in the days of JESUS and the Apostles and the Roman Catholic Church" that we are to use such a thing in Rev. 13:18? Nothing to stand on here, but an educated guess, whether it's a good one, or not.
Is it not best to stay within God's word at all cost, if possible?

In REVELATION 13 here....

REVELATION 13:18 [18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.

The counting system in the days of the Apostles John was that of the Roman Empire which used Roman numeral as did the Roman Catholic Church.

.................

The NUMBER of the BEAST (first beast) is the NUMBER of a MAN and his number is 666 *REVELATION 13:18

Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church which uses the Latin Vulgate Bible. Roman numerals are used to calculate the Beast's number which is the number of a man that equals 666.

* If you wish to know what each letter represents in ROMAN NUMERALS Click here in wiki.

The NUMBER of the BEAST (first beast) is the NUMBER of a MAN and his number is 666

A few of many titles of the Pope who is the head of the Catholic Church...

*LATEINOS = 666 (Latin speaking man)
*VICARIUS FILII DEI = 112+53+501 = 666 (Popes titles in place of the Son of God)
*Dux Cleri = 515+151 = 666 (Popes titles in Latin which means Captain of the Clergy)
*LUDOVICUS = 666 (Popes titles in Latin Vicar of the court)
*HE LATINE BASILEIA = 666 (Latin kingdom)
*ITALIKA EKKLESIA = 666 (Italian Church)

.................

REVELATION 13:18 [18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.

The number 666 represents the NUMBER of the BEAST which is the NUMBER of a MAN. The POPE'S OFFICE is the HEAD of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, Therefore the ANTICHRIST and the FIRST BEAST, BABYLON THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS are all pointing to the ROMANS CATHOLIC CHURCH

As shown earlier it is NOT our brothers and sisters in this system that are the problem God has many of his true people in ALL Churches and is calling them out to worship him in Spirit and in truth, according to his Word. The ANTICHRIST is anything that is opposed to or against God's WORD. God's people are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and keep all his commandments by faith. *REVELATIONS 12:17; 14:12; 22:14. Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD will receive the MARK OF THE BEAST.

God's sheep however, wherever they may be will hear his Voice (the Word of God)

God bless...
 
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7xlightray

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In REVELATION 13 here....

REVELATION 13:18 [18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.

The counting system in the days of the Apostles John was that of the Roman Empire which used Roman numeral as did the Roman Catholic Church.

.................

The NUMBER of the BEAST (first beast) is the NUMBER of a MAN and his number is 666 *REVELATION 13:18

Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church which uses the Latin Vulgate Bible. Roman numerals are used to calculate the Beast's number which is the number of a man that equals 666.

* If you wish to know what each letter represents in ROMAN NUMERALS Click here in wiki.

The NUMBER of the BEAST (first beast) is the NUMBER of a MAN and his number is 666

A few of many titles of the Pope who is the head of the Catholic Church...

*LATEINOS = 666 (Latin speaking man)
*VICARIUS FILII DEI = 112+53+501 = 666 (Popes titles in place of the Son of God)
*Dux Cleri = 515+151 = 666 (Popes titles in Latin which means Captain of the Clergy)
*LUDOVICUS = 666 (Popes titles in Latin Vicar of the court)
*HE LATINE BASILEIA = 666 (Latin kingdom)
*ITALIKA EKKLESIA = 666 (Italian Church)

.................

REVELATION 13:18 [18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.

The number 666 is the represents the NUMBER of the BEAST and it is the NUMBER of a MAN. The POPE'S OFFICE is the HEAD of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, Therefore the ANTICHRIST and the FIRST BEAST, BABYLON THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS are all pointing to the ROMANS CATHOLIC CHURCH

As shown earlier it is NOT our brothers and sisters in this system that are the problem God has many of his true people in ALL Churches and is calling them out to worship him in Spirit and in truth, according to his Word. The ANTICHRIST is anything that is opposed to or against God's WORD. God's people are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and keep all his commandments by faith. *REVELATIONS 12:17; 14:12; 22:14. Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD will receive the MARK OF THE BEAST.

God's sheep however, wherever they may be will hear his Voice (the Word of God)

God bless...
I'm not hear to cause you a hard time, but was only offering some insight. Nor is this about SDA, to clear that out of the way, and that you don't have to feel defensive, and it become an issue.

I am familiar with this understanding of which you put forth, it is one that's been around for a long time.

To be clear I'm not arguing the outcome of your calculation, but the type of calculation itself, because I know all things do lead to Rome. And also that your calculation is not taken from the Bible, but a human educated guess. And as far as a human educated guess goes, yes, a good one.

It does not tell you to calculate 666 as in the way you are doing, whether right, or wrong!

Sincerely, is that not still an human educated guess, whether it be a good guess, or not? For it does not specifically say to use a "Roman" numeral system. And if God is the God of the now, then not everyone in history would be privy to this information, nor would everyone throughout history be using the Roman numeral system. But if they had the word of God, and the calculation was in it, they would have all they need, and one would not have to be a well educated historian.

If I were Greek, I'd be using, or also using, a Greek numeral system to count (which I'm told most of the new testament was written in), that is if I were also using a Roman numeral system at times. And if I were English, I'd count with a English numeral system, in whatever history I was born in, and being applicable.
And besides all that, all kinds of names and words would add up to 666. Pretty open ended, and nothing solid to grasp onto. Yes, it may seem to help ones case, but nothing solid.

Have you tried looking for the calculation in the Bible?
Why even mention a man, some man in Rev 13:18, why not just give us the number only, and, or, even just the calculation?? Why not just tell us??

It's going to take a little bit of wisdom (look to Solomon) and understanding to grasp what is being asked. He is asking us to calculate [pséphizó. Luke 14:28] the number [arithmos: as recond up] of the beast.
First question anyone would ask upon the first time reading this (whether using a Roman numeral system, or not), is, "with what type of calculation?" Even if I were living in that day and assumed it was a Roman numeral system, I would still be asking, what is the calculation suppose to look like, how do I know what type of calculation I am suppose to use, or am I using the right calculation? Never mind that some of my relatives, and neighbors names add up to 666. If lots of other names also add up to 666, then it all becomes meaningless, and conjecture, because one could make it point to a certain someone, or thing, even though it is not that someone, or thing.

There is nothing sure about this system, or a name that it produces.

Even if it produced the correct name, one could still say, "big deal, it produced lots of names, it got lucky on this one!"

God's sheep however, wherever they may be will hear his Voice (the Word of God)
Well it's only been a short chat, and keeping it in that context, so far you have not been willing.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I'm not hear to cause you a hard time, but was only offering some insight. Nor is this about SDA, to clear that out of the way, and that you don't have to feel defensive, and it become an issue. I am familiar with this understanding of which you put forth, it is one that's been around for a long time.

To be clear I'm not arguing the outcome of your calculation, but the type of calculation itself, because I know all things do lead to Rome. And also that your calculation is not taken from the Bible, but a human educated guess. And as far as a human educated guess goes, yes, a good one.

It does not tell you to calculate 666 as in the way you are doing, whether right, or wrong!

Sincerely, is that not still an human educated guess, whether it be a good guess, or not? For it does not specifically say to use a "Roman" numeral system. And if God is the God of the now, then not everyone in history would be privy to this information, nor would everyone throughout history be using the Roman numeral system. But if they had the word of God, and the calculation was in it, they would have all they need, and one would not have to be a well educated historian.

If I were Greek, I'd be using, or also using, a Greek numeral system to count (which I'm told most of the new testament was written in), that is if I were also using a Roman numeral system at times. And if I were English, I'd count with a English numeral system, in whatever history I was born in, and being applicable.
And besides all that, all kinds of names and words would add up to 666. Pretty open ended, and nothing solid to grasp onto. Yes, it may seem to help ones case, but nothing solid.

Have you tried looking for the calculation in the Bible?
Why even mention a man, some man in Rev 13:18, why not just give us the number only, and, or, even just the calculation?? Why not just tell us??

It's going to take a little bit of wisdom (look to Solomon) and understanding to grasp what is being asked. He is asking us to calculate [pséphizó. Luke 14:28] the number [arithmos: as recond up] of the beast.
First question anyone would ask upon the first time reading this (whether using a Roman numeral system, or not), is, "with what type of calculation?" Even if I were living in that day and assumed it was a Roman numeral system, I would still be asking, what is the calculation suppose to look like, how do I know what type of calculation I am suppose to use, or am I using the right calculation? Never mind that some of my relatives, and neighbors names add up to 666. If lots of other names also add up to 666, then it all becomes meaningless, and conjecture, because one could make it point to a certain someone, or thing, even though it is not that someone, or thing.

There is nothing sure about this system, or a name that it produces.

Even if it produced the correct name, one could still say, "big deal, it produced lots of names, it got lucky on this one!"

Well it's only been a short chat, and keeping it in that context, so far you have not been willing.

Don't worry dear friend I do not believe you have given me a hard time at all. That has never been in my mind but thanks for your concern here. Where I believe your whole argument falls over here is in a number of areas.

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

So we are talking the same language if you do a word definition and of Greek words for "count" and "number" and look up lexical applications you will see that

"NUMBER" (G706); ἀριθμός; arithmos means numbers added up
"NAME" (G3686); ὄνομα; onoma means "name" (authority, character)
"COUNT" (G5585); ψηφίζω; psēphizō to compute: - count.

Ok so there is no mistake here. REVELATION 13:17-18 makes it very clear v17-18 says that it is the NUMBER OF THE BEASTS OR MANS NAME that we are to calculate 666 from.

REVELATION 13:18 shows that "Wisdom" is given to those who have "understanding" and the ability to count (calculate) the number of the beast or mans name by counting (calculating) the total number of the man to 666.

I am not much for commentaries but here is an interesting (non SDA) one...

Benson Commentary
Revelation 13:18. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast — In saying, Here is wisdom, the apostle shows that it is not a vain and ridiculous attempt to search into this mystery, but, on the contrary, that it is recommended to us on divine authority. For it is the number of a man — It is a method of numbering practised among men, as the measure of a man (Revelation 21:17) is such a measure as men commonly use. It was a practice among the ancients to denote names by numbers; of which many instances might be given, if it were necessary to prove it. It has likewise been the usual method in all God’s dispensations, for the Holy Spirit to accommodate his expressions to the customs, fashions, and manners of the several ages. Since then this art and mystery of numbers was so much used among the ancients, it is less wonderful that the beast also should have his number; and there was this additional reason for this obscure manner of characterizing him in the time of St. John, that no other manner would have been safe. Several names possibly might be cited, which contain this number; but it is evident that it must be some Greek or Hebrew name, and with the name also the other qualities and properties of the beast must all agree. The name alone will not constitute an agreement; all other particulars must be perfectly applicable, and the name also must comprehend the precise number of six hundred threescore and six. No name appears more proper and suitable than that famous one mentioned by Irenæus, who lived not long after St. John’s time, and was the disciple of Polycarp, the disciple of St. John. He saith, that “the name Lateinos contains the number of six hundred and sixty-six; and it is very likely, because the last kingdom is so called, for they are Latins who now reign: but in this we will not glory:” that is, as it becomes a modest and pious man in a point of such difficulty, he will not be too confident of his explication. Lateinos with ei is the true orthography, as the Greeks wrote the long i of the Latins, and as the Latins themselves wrote in former times. No objection therefore can be drawn from the spelling of the name, and the thing agrees to admiration. For after the division of the empire, the Greeks and other orientalists called the people of the western church, or Church of Rome, Latins: and they Latinize in every thing. Mass, prayers, hymns, litanies, canons, decretals, bulls, are conceived in Latin. The papal councils speak in Latin. Women themselves pray in Latin. Nor is the Scripture read in any other language under Popery than Latin. Wherefore the council of Trent commanded the vulgar Latin to be the only authentic version. Nor do their doctors doubt to prefer it to the Hebrew and Greek text itself, which was written by the prophets and apostles. In short, all things are Latin; the pope having communicated his language to the people under his dominion, as the mark and character of his empire. They themselves indeed choose rather to be called Romans, and, more absurdly still, Roman Catholics: and probably the apostle, as he hath made use of some Hebrew names in this book, as Abaddon, (ix. 11,) and Armageddon, (xvi. 16,) so might in this place likewise allude to the name in the Hebrew language. Now Romiith is the Hebrew name for the Roman beast, or Roman kingdom: and this word, as well as the former word Lateinos, contains the just and exact number of six hundred and sixty-six.

LATEINOS.

Λ 30

Α 1

Τ 300 Ε 5

Ι 10

Ν 50

Ο 70

Σ 200 666

ROMIITH.

ר 200

ו 6

מ 40

י 10

י 10

ת 400 666

...............

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible

It is really surprising that there should be such a fatal coincidence in both names in both languages. And perhaps no other word, in any language whatever, can be found to express both the same number and the same thing. See Bishop Newton.

The question now is, whether there is any word which corresponds with these conditions, and which would naturally be referred to by John in this manner. The exposition thus far has led us to suppose that the papacy in some form is referred to; and the inquiry now is, whether there is any word which is so certain and determinate as to make it probable that John meant to designate that. The word Λατεινος Lateinos- “Lateinos, the Latin” (Man) - actually has all the conditions supposed in the interpretation of this passage. From this word the number specified - 666 - is made out as follows:

d Λ Α Τ Ε Ι Ν Ο Σ

d

d

d 3013005105070200

d = 666

d

d

In support of the opinion that this is the word intended to be referred to, the following suggestions may be made:

(a) It is a Greek word.

(b) It expresses the exact number, and corresponds in this respect with the language used by John.

(c) It was early suggested as the probable meaning, and by those who lived near the time of John; who were intimately acquainted with the Greek language; and who may be supposed to have been familiar with this mode of writing.

Thus it was suggested by Irenaeus, who says, “It seems to me very probable; for this is a name of the last of Daniel‘s four kingdoms; they being Latins that now reign.” It is true that he also mentions two other words as those which may be meant - ευανθας euanthasa word which had been suggested by others, but concerning which he makes no remarks, and which, of course, must have been destitute of any probability in his view; and Τειταν Teitanwhich he thinks has the clearest claims for admission - though he speaks of the word Λατεινος Lateinosas having a claim of probability.

(d) This word would properly denote the Roman power, or the then Latin power, and would refer to that dominion as a Latin dominion - as it properly was; and if it be supposed that it was intended to refer to that, and, at the same time, that there should be some degree of obscurity about it, this would be more likely to be selected than the word “Roman,” which was better known; and,

(e) there was a special propriety in this, on the supposition that it was intended to refer to the papal Latin power. The most appropriate appellation, if it was designed to refer to Rome as a civil power, would undoubtedly have been the word “Roman”; but if it was intended to refer to the ecclesiastical power, or to the papacy, this is the very word to express the idea. In earlier times the more common appellation was Roman. This continued until the separation of the Eastern and Western empires, when the Eastern was called Greek, and the Western the Latin; or when the Eastern empire assumed the name of Roman, and affixed to the Western kingdoms one and all that were connected with Rome the appellation of Latin. This appellation, originally applied to the language only, was adopted by the Western kingdoms, and came to be that by which they were best designated. It was the Latin world, the Latin kingdom, the Latin church, the Latin patriarch, the Latin clergy, the Latin councils. To use Dr. More‘s words, “They Latinize everything: mass, prayers, hymns, litanies, canons, decretals, bulls, are conceived in Latin. The papal councils speak in Latin, women themselves pray in Latin. The Scriptures are read in no other language under the papacy than Latin. In short, all things are Latin.” With what propriety, then, might John, under the influence of inspiration, speak, in this enigmatical manner, of the new power that was symbolized by the beast as Latin.

The only objection to this solution that has been suggested is, that the orthography of the Greek word is Λατινος Latinos- “Latinos,” and not Λατεινος Lateinos- Lateinosgiving the number 661, and not 666; and Bellarmine asserts that this is the uniform method of spelling in Greek authors. All that is necessary in reply to this is to copy the following remark from Prof. Stuart, vol. ii. p. 456: “As to the form of the Greek word Λατεινος Lateinosnamely, that ει eiis employed for the Latin long 4, it is a sufficient vindication of it to cite Σαβεῖνος Sabeinos Φαυστεῖνος Fausteinos Παυλεῖνος Pauleinos Αντωνεῖνος Antōneinos Ατειλιος Ateilios Μετεῖλιος Metei̬lios Παπεῖριος Papeirios Ουεῖβιος Oueibiosetc. Or we may refer to the custom of the more ancient Latin, as in Plautus, of writing i by ei; e. g., solitei, Diveis, captivei, preimus, Lateina, etc.” See this point examined further, in Elliott, 3:210-213.

...............

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
18. wisdom—the armory against the second beast, as patience and faith against the first. Spiritual wisdom is needed to solve the mystery of iniquity, so as not to be beguiled by it.
count … for—The "for" implies the possibility of our calculating or counting the beast's number.

the number of a man—that is, counted as men generally count. So the phrase is used in Re 21:17. The number is the number of a man, not of God; he shall extol himself above the power of the Godhead, as the MAN of sin [Aquinas]. Though it is an imitation of the divine name, it is only human.

six hundred threescore and six—A and Vulgate write the numbers in full in the Greek. But B writes merely the three Greek letters standing for numbers, Ch, X, St. "C reads" 616, but Irenæus, 328, opposes this and maintains "666." Irenæus, in the second century, disciple of Polycarp, John's disciple, explained this number as contained in the Greek letters of Lateinos (L being thirty; A, one; T, three hundred; E, five; I, ten; N, fifty; O, seventy; S, two hundred). The Latin is peculiarly the language of the Church of Rome in all her official acts; the forced unity of language in ritual being the counterfeit of the true unity; the premature and spurious anticipation of the real unity, only to be realized at Christ's coming, when all the earth shall speak "one language" (Zep 3:9). The last Antichrist may have a close connection with Rome, and so the name Lateinos (666) may apply to him. The Hebrew letters of Balaam amount to 666 [Bunsen]; a type of the false prophet, whose characteristic, like Balaam's, will be high spiritual knowledge perverted to Satanic ends. The number six is the world number; in 666 it occurs in units, tens, and hundreds. It is next neighbor to the sacred seven, but is severed from it by an impassable gulf. It is the number of the world given over to judgment; hence there is a pause between the sixth and seventh seals, and the sixth and seventh trumpets. The judgments on the world are complete in six; by the fulfilment of seven, the kingdoms of the world become Christ's. As twelve is the number of the Church, so six, its half, symbolizes the world kingdom broken. The raising of the six to tens and hundreds (higher powers) indicates that the beast, notwithstanding his progression to higher powers, can only rise to greater ripeness for judgment. Thus 666, the judged world power, contrasts with the 144,000 sealed and transfigured ones (the Church number, twelve, squared and multiplied by one thousand, the number symbolizing the world pervaded by God; ten, the world number, raised to the power of three the number of God) [Auberlen]. The "mark" (Greek, "charagma") and "name" are one and the same. The first two radical letters of Christ (Greek, "Christos"), Ch and R, are the same as the first two of charagma, and were the imperial monogram of Christian Rome. Antichrist, personating Christ, adopts a symbol like, but not agreeing with, Christ's monogram, Ch, X, St; whereas the radicals in "Christ" are Ch, R, St. Papal Rome has similarly substituted the standard of the Keys for the standard of the Cross; so on the papal coinage (the image of power, Mt 22:20). The two first letters of "Christ," Ch, R, represent seven hundred, the perfect number. The Ch, X, St represent an imperfect number, a triple falling away (apostasy) from septenary perfection [Wordsworth].

...............

Whether you use GREEK or LATIN the 666 still ends up pointing to the Papacy (Roman Catholic Church). Keep in mind as well this is only one of many signs already addressed throughout this OP all pointing to the Roman Catholic Church system (not the people) of which many of those of the reformation all agree.

Hope this helps
 
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7xlightray

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Don't worry dear friend I do not believe you have given me a hard time at all. That has never been in my mind but thanks for your concern here. Where I believe your whole argument falls over here is in a number of areas.

REVELATION 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the NAME OF THE BEAST, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.[18], Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding COUNT the NUMBER of the BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred three score and six (666).

So we are talking the same language if you do a word definition and of Greek words for "count" and "number" and look up lexical applications you will see that

"NUMBER" (G706); ἀριθμός; arithmos means numbers added up

"NAME" (G3686); ὄνομα; onoma means "name" (authority, character)

"COUNT" (G5585); ψηφίζω; psēphizō to compute: - count.

Ok so there is no mistake here. REVELATION 13:17-18 makes it very clear v17-18 says that it is the NUMBER OF THE BEASTS OR MANS NAME that we are to calculate 666 from.

REVELATION 13:18 shows that "Wisdom" is given to those who have "understanding" and the ability to count (calculate) the number of the beast or mans name by counting (calculating) the total number of the man to 666.

I am not much for commentaries but here is an interesting (non SDA) one...

Benson Commentary
Revelation 13:18. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast — In saying, Here is wisdom, the apostle shows that it is not a vain and ridiculous attempt to search into this mystery, but, on the contrary, that it is recommended to us on divine authority. For it is the number of a man — It is a method of numbering practised among men, as the measure of a man (Revelation 21:17) is such a measure as men commonly use. It was a practice among the ancients to denote names by numbers; of which many instances might be given, if it were necessary to prove it. It has likewise been the usual method in all God’s dispensations, for the Holy Spirit to accommodate his expressions to the customs, fashions, and manners of the several ages. Since then this art and mystery of numbers was so much used among the ancients, it is less wonderful that the beast also should have his number; and there was this additional reason for this obscure manner of characterizing him in the time of St. John, that no other manner would have been safe. Several names possibly might be cited, which contain this number; but it is evident that it must be some Greek or Hebrew name, and with the name also the other qualities and properties of the beast must all agree. The name alone will not constitute an agreement; all other particulars must be perfectly applicable, and the name also must comprehend the precise number of six hundred threescore and six. No name appears more proper and suitable than that famous one mentioned by Irenæus, who lived not long after St. John’s time, and was the disciple of Polycarp, the disciple of St. John. He saith, that “the name Lateinos contains the number of six hundred and sixty-six; and it is very likely, because the last kingdom is so called, for they are Latins who now reign: but in this we will not glory:” that is, as it becomes a modest and pious man in a point of such difficulty, he will not be too confident of his explication. Lateinos with ei is the true orthography, as the Greeks wrote the long i of the Latins, and as the Latins themselves wrote in former times. No objection therefore can be drawn from the spelling of the name, and the thing agrees to admiration. For after the division of the empire, the Greeks and other orientalists called the people of the western church, or Church of Rome, Latins: and they Latinize in every thing. Mass, prayers, hymns, litanies, canons, decretals, bulls, are conceived in Latin. The papal councils speak in Latin. Women themselves pray in Latin. Nor is the Scripture read in any other language under Popery than Latin. Wherefore the council of Trent commanded the vulgar Latin to be the only authentic version. Nor do their doctors doubt to prefer it to the Hebrew and Greek text itself, which was written by the prophets and apostles. In short, all things are Latin; the pope having communicated his language to the people under his dominion, as the mark and character of his empire. They themselves indeed choose rather to be called Romans, and, more absurdly still, Roman Catholics: and probably the apostle, as he hath made use of some Hebrew names in this book, as Abaddon, (ix. 11,) and Armageddon, (xvi. 16,) so might in this place likewise allude to the name in the Hebrew language. Now Romiith is the Hebrew name for the Roman beast, or Roman kingdom: and this word, as well as the former word Lateinos, contains the just and exact number of six hundred and sixty-six.

LATEINOS.

Λ 30

Α 1

Τ 300 Ε 5

Ι 10

Ν 50

Ο 70

Σ 200 666

ROMIITH.

ר 200

ו 6

מ 40

י 10

י 10

ת 400 666

...............

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible

It is really surprising that there should be such a fatal coincidence in both names in both languages. And perhaps no other word, in any language whatever, can be found to express both the same number and the same thing. See Bishop Newton.

The question now is, whether there is any word which corresponds with these conditions, and which would naturally be referred to by John in this manner. The exposition thus far has led us to suppose that the papacy in some form is referred to; and the inquiry now is, whether there is any word which is so certain and determinate as to make it probable that John meant to designate that. The word Λατεινος Lateinos- “Lateinos, the Latin” (Man) - actually has all the conditions supposed in the interpretation of this passage. From this word the number specified - 666 - is made out as follows:

d Λ Α Τ Ε Ι Ν Ο Σ

d

d

d 3013005105070200

d = 666

d

d

In support of the opinion that this is the word intended to be referred to, the following suggestions may be made:

(a) It is a Greek word.

(b) It expresses the exact number, and corresponds in this respect with the language used by John.

(c) It was early suggested as the probable meaning, and by those who lived near the time of John; who were intimately acquainted with the Greek language; and who may be supposed to have been familiar with this mode of writing.

Thus it was suggested by Irenaeus, who says, “It seems to me very probable; for this is a name of the last of Daniel‘s four kingdoms; they being Latins that now reign.” It is true that he also mentions two other words as those which may be meant - ευανθας euanthasa word which had been suggested by others, but concerning which he makes no remarks, and which, of course, must have been destitute of any probability in his view; and Τειταν Teitanwhich he thinks has the clearest claims for admission - though he speaks of the word Λατεινος Lateinosas having a claim of probability.

(d) This word would properly denote the Roman power, or the then Latin power, and would refer to that dominion as a Latin dominion - as it properly was; and if it be supposed that it was intended to refer to that, and, at the same time, that there should be some degree of obscurity about it, this would be more likely to be selected than the word “Roman,” which was better known; and,

(e) there was a special propriety in this, on the supposition that it was intended to refer to the papal Latin power. The most appropriate appellation, if it was designed to refer to Rome as a civil power, would undoubtedly have been the word “Roman”; but if it was intended to refer to the ecclesiastical power, or to the papacy, this is the very word to express the idea. In earlier times the more common appellation was Roman. This continued until the separation of the Eastern and Western empires, when the Eastern was called Greek, and the Western the Latin; or when the Eastern empire assumed the name of Roman, and affixed to the Western kingdoms one and all that were connected with Rome the appellation of Latin. This appellation, originally applied to the language only, was adopted by the Western kingdoms, and came to be that by which they were best designated. It was the Latin world, the Latin kingdom, the Latin church, the Latin patriarch, the Latin clergy, the Latin councils. To use Dr. More‘s words, “They Latinize everything: mass, prayers, hymns, litanies, canons, decretals, bulls, are conceived in Latin. The papal councils speak in Latin, women themselves pray in Latin. The Scriptures are read in no other language under the papacy than Latin. In short, all things are Latin.” With what propriety, then, might John, under the influence of inspiration, speak, in this enigmatical manner, of the new power that was symbolized by the beast as Latin.

The only objection to this solution that has been suggested is, that the orthography of the Greek word is Λατινος Latinos- “Latinos,” and not Λατεινος Lateinos- Lateinosgiving the number 661, and not 666; and Bellarmine asserts that this is the uniform method of spelling in Greek authors. All that is necessary in reply to this is to copy the following remark from Prof. Stuart, vol. ii. p. 456: “As to the form of the Greek word Λατεινος Lateinosnamely, that ει eiis employed for the Latin long 4, it is a sufficient vindication of it to cite Σαβεῖνος Sabeinos Φαυστεῖνος Fausteinos Παυλεῖνος Pauleinos Αντωνεῖνος Antōneinos Ατειλιος Ateilios Μετεῖλιος Metei̬lios Παπεῖριος Papeirios Ουεῖβιος Oueibiosetc. Or we may refer to the custom of the more ancient Latin, as in Plautus, of writing i by ei; e. g., solitei, Diveis, captivei, preimus, Lateina, etc.” See this point examined further, in Elliott, 3:210-213.

...............

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
18. wisdom—the armory against the second beast, as patience and faith against the first. Spiritual wisdom is needed to solve the mystery of iniquity, so as not to be beguiled by it.
count … for—The "for" implies the possibility of our calculating or counting the beast's number.

the number of a man—that is, counted as men generally count. So the phrase is used in Re 21:17. The number is the number of a man, not of God; he shall extol himself above the power of the Godhead, as the MAN of sin [Aquinas]. Though it is an imitation of the divine name, it is only human.

six hundred threescore and six—A and Vulgate write the numbers in full in the Greek. But B writes merely the three Greek letters standing for numbers, Ch, X, St. "C reads" 616, but Irenæus, 328, opposes this and maintains "666." Irenæus, in the second century, disciple of Polycarp, John's disciple, explained this number as contained in the Greek letters of Lateinos (L being thirty; A, one; T, three hundred; E, five; I, ten; N, fifty; O, seventy; S, two hundred). The Latin is peculiarly the language of the Church of Rome in all her official acts; the forced unity of language in ritual being the counterfeit of the true unity; the premature and spurious anticipation of the real unity, only to be realized at Christ's coming, when all the earth shall speak "one language" (Zep 3:9). The last Antichrist may have a close connection with Rome, and so the name Lateinos (666) may apply to him. The Hebrew letters of Balaam amount to 666 [Bunsen]; a type of the false prophet, whose characteristic, like Balaam's, will be high spiritual knowledge perverted to Satanic ends. The number six is the world number; in 666 it occurs in units, tens, and hundreds. It is next neighbor to the sacred seven, but is severed from it by an impassable gulf. It is the number of the world given over to judgment; hence there is a pause between the sixth and seventh seals, and the sixth and seventh trumpets. The judgments on the world are complete in six; by the fulfilment of seven, the kingdoms of the world become Christ's. As twelve is the number of the Church, so six, its half, symbolizes the world kingdom broken. The raising of the six to tens and hundreds (higher powers) indicates that the beast, notwithstanding his progression to higher powers, can only rise to greater ripeness for judgment. Thus 666, the judged world power, contrasts with the 144,000 sealed and transfigured ones (the Church number, twelve, squared and multiplied by one thousand, the number symbolizing the world pervaded by God; ten, the world number, raised to the power of three the number of God) [Auberlen]. The "mark" (Greek, "charagma") and "name" are one and the same. The first two radical letters of Christ (Greek, "Christos"), Ch and R, are the same as the first two of charagma, and were the imperial monogram of Christian Rome. Antichrist, personating Christ, adopts a symbol like, but not agreeing with, Christ's monogram, Ch, X, St; whereas the radicals in "Christ" are Ch, R, St. Papal Rome has similarly substituted the standard of the Keys for the standard of the Cross; so on the papal coinage (the image of power, Mt 22:20). The two first letters of "Christ," Ch, R, represent seven hundred, the perfect number. The Ch, X, St represent an imperfect number, a triple falling away (apostasy) from septenary perfection [Wordsworth].

...............

Whether you use GREEK or LATIN the 666 still ends up pointing to the Papacy (Roman Catholic Church). Keep in mind as well this is only one of many signs already addressed throughout this OP all pointing to the Roman Catholic Church system (not the people) of which many of those of the reformation all agree.

Hope this helps
You do understand what you have posted, does not change a thing that I have said, but actually supports the things I have said??

What is missing from this whole passage, is the calculation.
The number of a man (666) is a clue as to where to look, for the calculation that is missing.

Did you look at 1 Kings 10:14; 2 Chronicles 9:13?
Did you see a [reckoned up..] number and a calculation?

How it reads in Greek:
"..let him count [compute, calculate] the [head count, total, reckoned up..] number of the beast; number for a man it is, and the [reckoned up..] number is of it [neuter (and what are we missing?)], six hundred sixty six"
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You do understand what you have posted, does not change a thing that I have said, but actually supports the things I have said??

What is missing from this whole passage, is the calculation.
The number of a man (666) is a clue as to where to look, for the calculation that is missing.

Did you look at 1 Kings 10:14; 2 Chronicles 9:13?
Did you see a [reckoned up..] number and a calculation?

How it reads in Greek:
"..let him count [compute, calculate] the [head count, total, reckoned up..] number of the beast; number for a man it is, and the [reckoned up..] number is of it [neuter (and what are we missing?)], six hundred sixty six"

Actually no it does not support anything you have said. The post provided earlier only demonstrates that what has been provided in this OP is supported by scripture and it's context, other outside commentaries and is one of many contributing signs that point to the Roman Catholic Church. What have you provided? Nothing. The calculation has already been provided. It is given to those who have "understanding" to add up and "calculate" the number of his name which as already provided in the last post. The "wisdom" that is given to those who have "understanding" is that this total of the number of His name adds up to 666. I already provided what the Greek says in the previous post.
 
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Artorius Lacomus

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That was Nero, although there have been all too many Nero-type manifestations since those days. I sure each time there was such a manifestation there were many folk thinking it was the last, final and most horrific manifestation of the beast which included ever changing versions of the mark of the beast, depending on current technology.

Be careful, human ego tends to lead us astray, into notions that our time is the most significant in one way or another. In the case of Christians, that misleading often involves obsessive notions that imminent, just around the corner, end of days stuff. When that happens, other things get pushed back.

The best way to be ready for the mark of the beast, the anti-christ etc is just do a good job of practicing your religion.
James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

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LoveGodsWord

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That was Nero, although there have been all too many Nero-type manifestations since those days. I sure each time there was such a manifestation there were many folk thinking it was the last, final and most horrific manifestation of the beast which included ever changing versions of the mark of the beast, depending on current technology.

Be careful, human ego tends to lead us astray, into notions that our time is the most significant in one way or another. In the case of Christians, that misleading often involves obsessive notions that imminent, just around the corner, end of days stuff. When that happens, other things get pushed back.

The best way to be ready for the mark of the beast, the anti-christ etc is just do a good job of practicing your religion.
James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Full Site

Hi Artorius Lacomus, welcome here. I do not believe the NERO interpretation as it does not fulfill all the scripture characteristics. This is simply a Roman Catholic interpretation I believe is not biblical that is not biblical.

Full site
 
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7xlightray

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Actually no it does not support anything you have said. The post provided earlier only demonstrates that what has been provided in this OP is supported by scripture and it's context, other outside commentaries and is one of many contributing signs that point to the Roman Catholic Church. What have you provided? Nothing. The calculation has already been provided. It is given to those who have "understanding" to add up and "calculate" the number of his name which as already provided in the last post. The "wisdom" that is given to those who have "understanding" is that this total of the number of His name adds up to 666. I already provided what the Greek says in the previous post.
That's a human educated guess, saying, "Well, nothing was actually found written with "Roman numeral system" on it, but it was popular at the time; most likely; even so and so said; and these pieces seem to fit; and all those pieces fit, so I'm going with that!"
As opposed to, "That right there!"

As to your defense of pointing to the Roman Catholic Church,
nothing has come out yet as to what, or who,
this specific calculation points to,
nor have I disagreed with you on your point.

What I have been trying to say,
is God provided the actual specific calculation in His word,
but you have been pushing against this very thought from the start.

And showing no interest at all, that this might be so.
Rejected, before even knowing.
No point placing diner in front of a person who is already full.

You also did not say, whether you seen a reckoned up number and calculation in those
verses, but choose for yourself, whether it be wise, or not, to consider God providing His own
specific calculation.​
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That's a human educated guess, saying, "Well, nothing was actually found written with "Roman numeral system" on it, but it was popular at the time; most likely; even so and so said; and these pieces seem to fit; and all those pieces fit, so I'm going with that!"
As opposed to, "That right there!"

As to your defense of pointing to the Roman Catholic Church,
nothing has come out yet as to what, or who,
this specific calculation points to,
nor have I disagreed with you on your point.

What I have been trying to say,
is God provided the actual specific calculation in His word,
but you have been pushing against this very thought from the start.

And showing no interest at all, that this might be so.
Rejected, before even knowing.
No point placing diner in front of a person who is already full.

You also did not say, whether you seen a reckoned up number and calculation in those
verses, but choose for yourself, whether it be wise, or not, to consider God providing His own
specific calculation.​

Hello dear 7xlightray, please forgive me if I disagree.

All I have presented here is what I believe the scriptures teach and I think we need to keep in mind that it is not one single bit of evidence (e.g. the calculation of 666 which I believe perfectly fits) that points to the beast and the man of sin outlined in the scriptures but all the collective scripture descriptions.

All the scriptures and their meanings from Daniel and Revelation need to connect together to give the identity of the beast of outlined in Daniel 7, 8 and 9 and Revelation 13, 14, 17 and 18 and this is what I believe this OP provides. It is not man made guesses or opinions but scripture interpreting the scriptures and they all lead to Rome.

Keep in mind as well that it is the calculated number of the name of the beast or the man that identifies the beast power of Revelation 13. If you disagree you are welcome to show your view but keep in mind it is all the facts and signs in all the scriptures that need to be all lined up together so we eliminate the possibility of private interpretation that the scriptures warns us about.

Ok please share your understanding of REVELATION 13:17-18 and lets consider it and see how everything may or may not link together. I am all ears (eyes). Please also forgive me if you feel I have not given you a chance. I was trying to explain my reasoning from the scriptures.

Let's hear your view.
 
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7xlightray

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Hello dear 7xlightray, please forgive me if I disagree.

All I have presented here is what I believe the scriptures teach and I think we need to keep in mind that it is not one single bit of evidence (e.g. the calculation of 666 which I believe perfectly fits) that points to the beast and the man of sin outlined in the scriptures but all the collective scripture descriptions.

All the scriptures and their meanings from Daniel and Revelation need to connect together to give the identity of the beast of outlined in Daniel 7, 8 and 9 and Revelation 13, 14, 17 and 18 and this is what I believe this OP provides. It is not man made guesses or opinions but scripture interpreting the scriptures and they all lead to Rome.

Keep in mind as well that it is the calculated number of the name of the beast or the man that identifies the beast power of Revelation 13. If you disagree you are welcome to show your view but keep in mind it is all the facts and signs in all the scriptures that need to be all lined up together so we eliminate the possibility of private interpretation that the scriptures warns us about.

Ok please share your understanding of REVELATION 13:17-18 and lets consider it and see how everything may or may not link together. I am all ears (eyes). Please also forgive me if you feel I have not given you a chance. I was trying to explain my reasoning from the scriptures.

Let's hear your view.
My issue is not with all these other things you keep mentioning (In fact, I know, I'm more certain it's Rome than you are), it's with using God's word to interpret God's word, referring only to the type of calculation, that is to be used. And if it's obvious God did interpret, in this case provide a specific calculation, in sincerity where will loyalty lie?

I'm not telling you not to use the Roman numeral system, but to that which takes precedence.

Before we carry on, this will need to be cleared up..
You did not mention what you disagreed with, but since you continued to speak on "educated guess," and seeing that was one of the things I spoke on in my post, my educated guess is, you are saying you disagree with my definition of what a educated guess is, and that the uses of a Roman numeral system is not a educated guess?
If that be the case..

100% = not an educated guess, but that we are to use a Roman numeral system for giving value to names, no mistake:
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding use the Roman numeral system, for giving value to names, to calculate the number of the beast..

1% to 99% = an educated guess, that we are to use a Roman numeral system for giving value to names:
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast..

..then that's how I understand "educated guess."

An educated guess is not a bad thing, doesn't mean we shouldn't use it, it's a needed thing in this life, and we use it in all kinds of things, it's just not 100%, that's all.​

Are you saying you disagree with this definition?​
 
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LoveGodsWord

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My issue is not with all these other things you keep mentioning (In fact, I know, I'm more certain it's Rome than you are), it's with using God's word to interpret God's word, referring only to the type of calculation, that is to be used. And if it's obvious God did interpret, in this case provide a specific calculation, in sincerity where will loyalty lie?

I'm not telling you not to use the Roman numeral system, but to that which takes precedence.

Before we carry on, this will need to be cleared up..
You did not mention what you disagreed with, but since you continued to speak on "educated guess," and seeing that was one of the things I spoke on in my post, my educated guess is, you are saying you disagree with my definition of what a educated guess is, and that the uses of a Roman numeral system is not a educated guess?
If that be the case..

100% = not an educated guess, but that we are to use a Roman numeral system for giving value to names, no mistake:
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding use the Roman numeral system, for giving value to names, to calculate the number of the beast..

1% to 99% = an educated guess, that we are to use a Roman numeral system for giving value to names:
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast..

..then that's how I understand "educated guess."

An educated guess is not a bad thing, doesn't mean we shouldn't use it, it's a needed thing in this life, and we use it in all kinds of things, it's just not 100%, that's all.​

Are you saying you disagree with this definition?​

My disagreement was in your claims to "educated guess". I believe that the calculations of the names of the beast and the man to 666 to those who have "understanding" in Revelation 13:17-18 fits perfectly with all the other descriptive within the context of the surrounding scriptures in both Daniel and Revelation leading to the identity of the Roman Catholic Church. I believe that there is a reason why Roman Numerals are taught throughout the school system to this present day. So for claims of "educated guess" when many of the names of the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church add up precisely to the number 666 if this was to happen once you could possibly claim "educated guess" but when it happens many times with many names the probability of this being by chance becomes very slim (100% not an educated guess). On top of this what other system is there for counting the number out of a name? I do not know of any so I am interested to see how you are going to do this and what you come up with. I look forward to hearing what you come up with now.
 
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Strong in Him

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My disagreement was in your claims to "educated guess". I believe that the calculations of the names of the beast and the man to 666 to those who have "understanding" in Revelation 13:17-18 fits perfectly with all the other descriptive within the context of the surrounding scriptures in both Daniel and Revelation leading to the identity of the Roman Catholic Church.

No.
Sorry, I have several problems with the Catholic church, but they are a Christian denomination and born again, Spirit filled, Scripture loving Christians can be found within it. I don't believe it is the beast, antichrist or anything else.

I don't believe, either, that we are meant to calculate the mark of the best. Scripture says that it is man's number. In the Bible, 6 is the number for mankind - created on the 6th day and also one less than 7 which is God's number, the number of perfection. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. 666 means, imo, someone who is only, and totally, human; with no soul. Just as 777 is God; totally and fully divine. In Isaiah 6 the seraphim did not sin "Holy is the Lord", but "Holy, Holy, Holy" - 3x holy. 3 is another number for God the Trinity.

Apart from this, all those who don't worship the first beast in Rev 13 are killed - those who do not have their names written in the book of life. This suggests that those whose names ARE in the book are not around at this point. Even if they were, if they refuse to worship the first beast, which any Christian surely would, they will be killed.
Those who are left, will be given a mark on their right hands or foreheads by the second beast.

The Catholic church is not a mark that can be put on anyone's right hand or forehead. And as Christians may not even be around when the beats is imposing his mark on everyone, I don't see why there is so much discussion - which creates a huge amount of anxiety for some - about it.
 
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