Are we saved when we get doctrine 100% correct?

[JIMINZ]

Gods' minimum standard for Salvation as expressed by Jesus.

Mar. 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Everything after that is mans addendum.

 

[TheSeabass]

Hello,

I have a big question that's been bothering me the last couple of days. Are people who don't have doctrine 100% (or even 30% correct) saved? I mean, if that were the case Catholics would not be saved because they believe in a works based salvation. Not to mention all of the other crazy stuff that they believe and do that I'm not going to get into in this topic. Calvinists and Mormons would not be saved either because of their wrong beliefs. Not to mention the Seventh Day Adventists. But, this cannot be the case as we are not saved by getting doctrine 100% correct we are saved by faith in Christ. Also Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

What comforting words from a wonderful and forgiving savior! Jesus will never drive us away and will not lose a single believer! That means that Catholics, Mormons, Calvinists, Seventh Day Adventists... ALL who come to Christ for salvation will be saved (John 3:16)! So, I don't want to hear anymore condemnation anymore. I want ALL Christian denominations to come together. We should all get along as believers in Christ instead of divide.

Anyway, the bible is extremely clear that we are saved by faith alone by grace alone. The bible is extremely clear that once we are saved we can never lose our salvation (John 6:37-40, John 10:28-29). The bible is extremely clear that the trinity is real and that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament (John 1:1-3 plus many other areas of the bible) but yet so many people believe none of these. Are they saved? I believe they are. Because in the end it's not getting doctrine 100% correct that saves you. It's faith in our Lord's death, burial and resurrection. It's faith in the Gospel. It's our Lord's precious blood that was shed for the entire world. It's coming to the Lord as the filthy rotten sinners that we are and saying "Forgive me Lord for I am a dirty rotten sinner!"). Now I realize people won't agree with me but, I'm curious as to what people believe on this subject. Do we have to get doctrine 100% correct to be saved?

One who already is a Christian must know all the doctrine of Christ in order to be saved. You point out yourself if one does not have the doctrine of Christ he is not of God.


--if not being correct on all the doctrine of Christ is not necessary, then who gets to decide for everyone else which part(s) of Christ's doctrine must be known correctly and which ones do not? More importantly, who gets to decide for Christ which part(s) of His doctrine is not important?

--Throughout the bible, both OT and NT, ignorance was not allowed as an excuse. Ignorace is sin. Examples, in Rom 10:1-3 fleshly Jews were lost due to ignorance of God's righteousness (commands). Lk 12:47,48 the one ignorant of the Lord's will was beaten with fewer stripes, but is still held accountable for his ignorance.

 

[TheSeabass]

I am not sure if this is a serious question or not given the first paragraph... You ask about doctrine and then go onto say all these other faith groups are wrong.... Who determines which doctrine is the correct doctrine in the first place?

PS... your groups interpretation of scripture doesn't determine universal doctrine it only determines the doctrine your group proclaims.

Good observation. The fact all the various religious groups all contradict each other over doctrine proves most do not have the doctrine of Christ. Christ's docrine is not a comedy of errors, contradictions.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Hello,

I have a big question that's been bothering me the last couple of days. Are people who don't have doctrine 100% (or even 30% correct) saved? I mean, if that were the case Catholics would not be saved because they believe in a works based salvation. Not to mention all of the other crazy stuff that they believe and do that I'm not going to get into in this topic. Calvinists and Mormons would not be saved either because of their wrong beliefs. Not to mention the Seventh Day Adventists. But, this cannot be the case as we are not saved by getting doctrine 100% correct we are saved by faith in Christ. Also Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

What comforting words from a wonderful and forgiving savior! Jesus will never drive us away and will not lose a single believer! That means that Catholics, Mormons, Calvinists, Seventh Day Adventists... ALL who come to Christ for salvation will be saved (John 3:16)! So, I don't want to hear anymore condemnation anymore. I want ALL Christian denominations to come together. We should all get along as believers in Christ instead of divide.

Anyway, the bible is extremely clear that we are saved by faith alone by grace alone. The bible is extremely clear that once we are saved we can never lose our salvation (John 6:37-40, John 10:28-29). The bible is extremely clear that the trinity is real and that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament (John 1:1-3 plus many other areas of the bible) but yet so many people believe none of these. Are they saved? I believe they are. Because in the end it's not getting doctrine 100% correct that saves you. It's faith in our Lord's death, burial and resurrection. It's faith in the Gospel. It's our Lord's precious blood that was shed for the entire world. It's coming to the Lord as the filthy rotten sinners that we are and saying "Forgive me Lord for I am a dirty rotten sinner!"). Now I realize people won't agree with me but, I'm curious as to what people believe on this subject. Do we have to get doctrine 100% correct to be saved?

God has elected some to be saved. Those elect are already saved by the works of His Son Jesus Christ on the cross.

The elect will be given that knowledge.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Response to Post#44:
A: WAY OFF POINT.
The Calvin T.U.L.I.P. and doctrine of "election" is FALSE!

 

[Soyeong]

Post#21 RESPONSE:
Q: "Do you disagree that these verses describe our salvation as being "trained" by grace to do works?"
A: Yes.
You have the spiritual cart before the horse.

BELIEVE unto the salvation EVENT...THEN...FOLLOW the guidance of God the Holy Spirit unto GOOD WORKS during sanctification.

Ephesians 2: 4-5,8-10
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 MADE US ALIVE with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
—it is by grace (unmerited Love/Mercy/favor) you have been saved.
8 For by GRACE (Love/Mercy) you have been SAVED through FAITH(BELIEF);
and that (FAITH/BELIEF) not of yourselves,
it is the (spiritual) GIFT of God;
9 NOT as a result of WORKS, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

If I were to give you a gift, then it would it would be an unmerited favor, but the content of the gift would itself by unmerited favor. Rather, God shows his grace to us by redeeming us from all Lawlessness and by training us how to rightly live in obedience to His Law. In Psalms 119:29, David asked God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Law. In Titus 2:11-14, it gives a description of what our salvation looks like, and it includes this training, so it is no less part of our salvation. Our salvation is from sin, which is the transgression of the Law, so it necessarily involves both paying the penalty of our Lawlessness and being made to stop sinning in obedience to the Law. The obedience does not earn the payment for the penalty of our sins, but part of what it means to be saved from our sins. In Titus 2:11-14, it does not make any sort of exemption for this training not being part of our salvation, so it is not clear to me how you can deny the straightforward reading of the text.

EDIT:

FYI, it helps to use quote tags or at least put a @ at the start of their name like @Ron Gurley so that we can get a notice that you have replied to us. Just highlight the text and select reply.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Response to Post#44:
A: WAY OFF POINT.
The Calvin T.U.L.I.P. and doctrine of "election" is FALSE!

You believe in conditional election?

 

[lesliedellow]

People are saved through faith in Christ; not through scoring 100% in a theology exam. On the other hand, if your doctrinal beliefs were only 30% correct, your conception of God would presumably be 70% idolatrous.

So 100% correct dogma is not necessary, and, if it was, heaven would be empty. But neither can it be said that doctrine is unimportant.

 

[DoingWhatJesusDid]

Hello,

I have a big question that's been bothering me the last couple of days. Are people who don't have doctrine 100% (or even 30% correct) saved? I mean, if that were the case Catholics would not be saved because they believe in a works based salvation. Not to mention all of the other crazy stuff that they believe and do that I'm not going to get into in this topic. Calvinists and Mormons would not be saved either because of their wrong beliefs. Not to mention the Seventh Day Adventists. But, this cannot be the case as we are not saved by getting doctrine 100% correct we are saved by faith in Christ. Also Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

What comforting words from a wonderful and forgiving savior! Jesus will never drive us away and will not lose a single believer! That means that Catholics, Mormons, Calvinists, Seventh Day Adventists... ALL who come to Christ for salvation will be saved (John 3:16)! So, I don't want to hear anymore condemnation anymore. I want ALL Christian denominations to come together. We should all get along as believers in Christ instead of divide.

Anyway, the bible is extremely clear that we are saved by faith alone by grace alone. The bible is extremely clear that once we are saved we can never lose our salvation (John 6:37-40, John 10:28-29). The bible is extremely clear that the trinity is real and that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament (John 1:1-3 plus many other areas of the bible) but yet so many people believe none of these. Are they saved? I believe they are. Because in the end it's not getting doctrine 100% correct that saves you. It's faith in our Lord's death, burial and resurrection. It's faith in the Gospel. It's our Lord's precious blood that was shed for the entire world. It's coming to the Lord as the filthy rotten sinners that we are and saying "Forgive me Lord for I am a dirty rotten sinner!"). Now I realize people won't agree with me but, I'm curious as to what people believe on this subject. Do we have to get doctrine 100% correct to be saved?

God knows are heart. I don't believe anyone will ever be 100% right in doctrine. The church's that think they are upset me. I can find fault in any denomination. I believe they stunt the growth of the members. I think if you truly accept Jesus in your heart and love him you are saved.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

You are saved if your name is written in the book of life.

As with sanctification, understanding God and His teaching is a lifelong process. We would not expect a newborn in Christ would immediately understand everything at the very moment they receive Christ.

Following Christ is a journey, some may go back and forth like the disciples who went back to their previous life after Jesus died, or Peter who denied Jesus three times then repented afterwards.

We do not know at which stage a person is at in their spiritual journey at this moment in time. We do not know whose names are in the book of life and whose aren't. Only Jesus is able to separate His sheep from the goats.

If someone truly belongs to God, they would eventually understand the truth and turn away from false doctrines since the Holy Spirit would guide them into all the truth.

As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. (1 John 2:27 NASB)

 

[Adstar]

What kind of works will damn you?

None will damn you,, all good works will be praised and build up for you riches in heaven.. I thought i made my point clearly?.. Maybe i didn't make it clear? So i will restate my position..

It is not the good works that damn a person .. it is relying on those good works to be part of the payment for ones eternal salvation... Now i am sure i said that i my earlier post...

Revelation says we will be judged BY our works

Indeed even every word we have said will be revealed for all to see.. Our good works will be judged. But this judgement for Christians will be about rewards.. There will be no judgement upon Christians that will entail being cast into the eternal lake of fire.. Because what will save us is our Believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement 100% for our salvation.. Our good works will just be a bonus.. But not part of our salvation equation..

, and James says faith without works is dead.

Amen And those who Believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for their salvation will do good works.. But again James did not say we are saved by our doing of good works...

The works Paul spoke about were circumcision and Mosaic laws such as meats and days. We are not saved because we've been circumcised or keep kosher and Sabbath. Or not saved because we aren't and don't. I would suggest you let God do the judging, for by what measure you judge others God will judge you.

I am not judging,, I am giving warning,, I am giving the Good News ( gospel) that Jesus has saved us, He has paid the price to atone for all our sins and has Redeemed us by His mighty Work on the cross.. 100%.. That's wonderful news and people who receive it have a huge weight of religious bondage lifted off their shoulders .. They can be assured of their eternal salvation..

The laws of the New Testament are belief in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ AND loving your neighbor as yourself. 1 John 3:23. That second commandment IS a work. It is done through the Holy Spirit, and without the Holy Spirit we do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9. Remember, even the demons believe and tremble.

Yes. And it is indeed loving to tell people the truth of salvation by believing and trusting in the Atonement of Jesus and to free people from the fear of the works bondage salvation doctrine that will save no one..

Jesus made it clear that on the day of judgement works salvation believers will come before Him and call him Lord Lord but they shall be rejected.. Take close note at the following scriptures and see what these people will be trying to use to justify their own place with the LORD in eternity..

Matthew 7: KJV
21 "¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. {22} Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? {23} And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

They will be boasting about their wonderful Works

 

[Adstar]

Do you disagree that these verses describe our salvation as being trained by grace to do works?

Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

If you disagree, then why?

I agree.. we should strive to live as the scriptures you post describe.. Amen..

But..... We are not saved by doing those good things... We are saved by the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ that was shed to attain Atonement for our sins.. And it is His Work that saves us 100%...

 

[1stcenturylady]

None will damn you,, all good works will be praised and build up for you riches in heaven.. I thought i made my point clearly?.. Maybe i didn't make it clear? So i will restate my position..

It is not the good works that damn a person .. it is relying on those good works to be part of the payment for ones eternal salvation... Now i am sure i said that i my earlier post...




Indeed even every word we have said will be revealed for all to see.. Our good works will be judged. But this judgement for Christians will be about rewards.. There will be no judgement upon Christians that will entail being cast into the eternal lake of fire.. Because what will save us is our Believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement 100% for our salvation.. Our good works will just be a bonus.. But not part of our salvation equation..




Amen And those who Believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for their salvation will do good works.. But again James did not say we are saved by our doing of good works...





I am not judging,, I am giving warning,, I am giving the Good News ( gospel) that Jesus has saved us, He has paid the price to atone for all our sins and has Redeemed us by His mighty Work on the cross.. 100%.. That's wonderful news and people who receive it have a huge weight of religious bondage lifted off their shoulders .. They can be assured of their eternal salvation..




Yes. And it is indeed loving to tell people the truth of salvation by believing and trusting in the Atonement of Jesus and to free people from the fear of the works bondage salvation doctrine that will save no one..

Jesus made it clear that on the day of judgement works salvation believers will come before Him and call him Lord Lord but they shall be rejected.. Take close note at the following scriptures and see what these people will be trying to use to justify their own place with the LORD in eternity..

Matthew 7: KJV
21 "¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. {22} Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? {23} And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

They will be boasting about their wonderful Works

What that is talking about is even if you have a great ministry but commit willful sins or hate your brother, you don't belong to Jesus. 1 John 3, Romans 8:9. How many times do you see fallen pastors and priests in the news. Many pedophiles and homosexuals are still behind the pulpit.

Do not be deceived into a false security if you believe you can stay in willful sin now and be saved.

 

[TheSeabass]

According to some posters, one can be saved without having all of Christ's doctrine. Can someone point out as to which part of Christ's doctrine is not important and which part is? How is this determination made? Who gets to make this determination for everyone else including Christ?

 

[Adstar]

What that is talking about is even if you have a great ministry but commit willful sins or hate your brother, you don't belong to Jesus. 1 John 3, Romans 8:9. How many times do you see fallen pastors and priests in the news. Many pedophiles and homosexuals are still behind the pulpit.

Do not be deceived into a false security if you believe you can stay in willful sin now and be saved.

I never said anything about wilful sin.. Wilful sin is not just any old sin.. It is sin done with pride and a rebellious attitude toward God.. It is an In your face attitude towards God.. People who sin like that are offended that their action is even called sin..

There are people who sin and are proud of their sinning..
There are people who sin and are ashamed of their sinning..

The Atonement of Jesus is a gift offered to those who acknowledge their sins as being against the perfect standards of God.. Those who acknowledge the truth of the will of God are righteous in spirit while being sinners in the flesh..

Those who are wilful sinners love their sin and hate the will of God and never accept His Atonement on offer.. In fact they are offended when people give them the Good News of His loving gift of forgiveness..

 

[Monk Brendan]

Are people who don't have doctrine 100% (or even 30% correct) saved? I mean, if that were the case Catholics would not be saved because they believe in a works based salvation

No! If all someone has learned is John 3:16, and they call upon him, that is enough.

 

[toLiJC]

Hello,

I have a big question that's been bothering me the last couple of days. Are people who don't have doctrine 100% (or even 30% correct) saved? I mean, if that were the case Catholics would not be saved because they believe in a works based salvation. Not to mention all of the other crazy stuff that they believe and do that I'm not going to get into in this topic. Calvinists and Mormons would not be saved either because of their wrong beliefs. Not to mention the Seventh Day Adventists. But, this cannot be the case as we are not saved by getting doctrine 100% correct we are saved by faith in Christ. Also Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

What comforting words from a wonderful and forgiving savior! Jesus will never drive us away and will not lose a single believer! That means that Catholics, Mormons, Calvinists, Seventh Day Adventists... ALL who come to Christ for salvation will be saved (John 3:16)! So, I don't want to hear anymore condemnation anymore. I want ALL Christian denominations to come together. We should all get along as believers in Christ instead of divide.

Anyway, the bible is extremely clear that we are saved by faith alone by grace alone. The bible is extremely clear that once we are saved we can never lose our salvation (John 6:37-40, John 10:28-29). The bible is extremely clear that the trinity is real and that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament (John 1:1-3 plus many other areas of the bible) but yet so many people believe none of these. Are they saved? I believe they are. Because in the end it's not getting doctrine 100% correct that saves you. It's faith in our Lord's death, burial and resurrection. It's faith in the Gospel. It's our Lord's precious blood that was shed for the entire world. It's coming to the Lord as the filthy rotten sinners that we are and saying "Forgive me Lord for I am a dirty rotten sinner!"). Now I realize people won't agree with me but, I'm curious as to what people believe on this subject. Do we have to get doctrine 100% correct to be saved?

the true Saints work for overall salvation, because They know the more people do it, the more people/souls will be saved sooner than otherwise - this is the general idea of their activity - which is why They don't worship/serve any god/lord(christ)/spirit but only the true One, for They know only the true One can save most perfectly... - that is how They receive, find and have the completely true doctrine, because They are entirely actuated by love for overall salvation...

Blessings

 

[GUANO]

The last thing that a Christian should be doing is judging whether or not a fellow in Christ is 'saved'. If someone is in error, forgive them, and hope that they forgive your error. Nobody is saved by theology or doctrine.

 

[Radrook]

Its not the amount of doctrine that a person knows or the depth of understanding. It is the sincere desire to do what is right that is the crucial factor. There are people in churches who are walking theological encyclopedias but their motivation is self-aggrandizement or monetary gain.

 

[1213]

...Do we have to get doctrine 100% correct to be saved?

Bible doesn’t say so.

Bible gives right for his disciples to forgive sins. And that we can do, but we have to remember, eternal life is for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

Forgiveness is not useful, if person doesn’t become righteous.

And here are few examples of what righteous means:

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:10-14

It is like wisdom of just, right understanding that makes person do right things. Righteous person is faithful/loyal to God, even if he makes mistakes.

It doesn’t mean person does everything according to Law of Moses, because:

Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19