Are we saved by faith alone, or something more?

[Albion]

Of course we are saved by Faith and not by anything else alone or working or in conjunction with Faith. We certainly cannot save ourselves by performing a bunch of good deeds. That is totally contrary to the message of the Gospel.

But it is right to include Grace as part of the story, not because it is a companion to Faith but because we have Faith only thanks to God's gracious gift of it to us, thus allowing us to believe the Gospel and trust in the Savior's atoning work. If it were not for Grace, we could never come to Faith and want to do good.

 

[BBAS 64]

This is bible verse, you don't accept bible? Even this is new testament.

Good Day, Goodhuman

It is a verse you have misused to teach (error) a works based Justification.

Does James 2:24 Deny Justification by Faith Alone?

In Him,

Bill

 

[createdtoworship]

I vote for faith alone. An explanation for my vote for faith alone and not grace through faith.

It is Gods grace that He has provided salvation for anyone. Because Jesus took away the sin of the world making every living person, eligible to receive the free gift of Eternal Life. Sin is no longer an issue it has been taken away, belief or unbelief in Gods promise (the free gift of Eternal Life) is what a person is faced with.

But it is the person by faith trusting in The Messiah for the free gift of The Messiah's Eternal Life that gives a person Eternal Life. Gods gift is Eternal Life and not faith, every person has the ability to exercise faith (in something), but when a person uses their faith to trust in Jesus for Eternal Life they have it never to lose it.

so without any human condition for salvation, what makes this view different than universal salvation?

 

[St_Worm2]

how does one have 5 sola's. For instance saying you are saved by faith alone. If it's faith alone, that signifies it's not by grace or any other topic, again how does one have 5 sola's. I am not just being picky here. I am pointing to inherent weakness in mans creeds as used over scripture.

Hello again createdtoworship, your reply is the very reason that I posted Dr. Sproul Jr.'s article, The Soul of the Solas. Just read the article (it's quite short .. in Post #11) and I believe you will find that it answers all of your points, and the questions you just raised

That said, I will add this, we are saved (from first to last) by God's mercy and grace through faith*, apart from anything that 'we' do .. e.g. Romans 3:28, 4:5, 11:6; Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:5.

*(I believe that saving faith is a "gift" that God gives to all of us who are/who will be His .. Ephesians 2:8, a gift that we choose to exercise when we believe).​

Mercy = God choosing to withhold the punishment that we rightly deserve for our sins.
Grace = God's UN-merited favor* towards us, His choosing to give us what we do not deserve/did not earn.

*(Unmerited Favor is a misnomer, in a sense, because God's gracious choice to save us is ~hardly~ unmerited. Rather, His grace is merited for us by Another , by the perfectly righteous life, death on the Cross, and Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, alone. Therefore Jesus and what He did for us is our ~only~ innocence, our ~only~ righteousness, and the ~only~ atonement and satisfaction for our sins. ~He~ is our salvation. We/what we do, is not.)​

We were made "His workmanship/masterpiece", created in Christ Jesus "for/unto" good works, not because of them .. Ephesians 2:10. What we do, as Christians, is the ~result~ (or fruit) of our being born again and saved, NOT the cause (nor do our good works maintain our salvation/keep us saved .. rather .. we are saved, "by grace" .. e.g. Romans 11:6).

We choose to act like Christians because we already are Christians.

God bless you!

--David

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21
​

.​

 

[d taylor]

so without any human condition for salvation, what makes this view different than universal salvation?

There is a condition and the condition is that a person believes that Jesus is the promised Messiah from the prophecies from The Tanakh and trust in The Messiah for the free gift of The Messiah's Eternal Life.

Eternal Life is not automatically given to everyone. A person has to examine the evidence about Jesus, that is presented by the Bible, especially The Gospel of John. In the Gospel of John there are 8 miracles that testify that Jesus is the promised Messiah.

Then either believe in Jesus for life or do not believe.

Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

 

[createdtoworship]

Hello again createdtoworship, your reply is the very reason that I posted Dr. Sproul Jr.'s article, The Soul of the Solas. Just read the article (it's quite short .. in Post #11) and I believe you will find that it answers all of your points, and the questions you just raised

That said, I will add this, we are saved (from first to last) by God's mercy and grace through faith*, apart from anything that 'we' do .. e.g. Romans 3:28, 4:5, 11:6; Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:5.

*(I believe that saving faith is a "gift" that God gives to all of us who are/who will be His .. Ephesians 2:8, a gift that we choose to exercise when we believe).​

Mercy = God choosing to withhold the punishment that we rightly deserve for our sins.
Grace = God's UN-merited favor* towards us, His choosing to give us what we do not deserve/did not earn.

*(Unmerited Favor is a misnomer, in a sense, because God's gracious choice to save us is ~hardly~ unmerited. Rather, His grace is merited for us by Another , by the perfectly righteous life, death on the Cross, and Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, alone. Therefore Jesus and what He did for us is our ~only~ innocence, our ~only~ righteousness, and the ~only~ atonement and satisfaction for our sins. ~He~ is our salvation. We/what we do, is not.)​

We were made "His workmanship/masterpiece", created in Christ Jesus "for/unto" (not because of) good works .. Ephesians 2:10. What we do, as Christians, is the ~result~ (or fruit) of our being born again and saved, NOT the cause (nor do our good works maintain our salvation/keep us saved .. rather, we are saved, "by grace" .. e.g. Romans 11:6).

We choose to act like Christians because we already are Christians.

God bless you!

--David

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21
​

.​

I did read the article and it didn't answer why there are for 100%'s. For example if you are 100% saved by faith that allows 0% for grace, if you are saved 100% by grace, that allows 0% for faith. So basically the sola fide, and sola gracia contradict, they are saying you are saved solely by two different things, well then it wouldn't be solely saved by faith it would be partially saved by faith and vice versa with gracia. I hope this time this makes this clear. If you wish to still use the article just copy and paste quotes from it. But this is why mans creeds and dogma don't stand up to the word of God.

 

[createdtoworship]

I vote for faith alone. An explanation for my vote for faith alone and not grace through faith.

It is Gods grace that He has provided salvation for anyone. Because Jesus took away the sin of the world making every living person, eligible to receive the free gift of Eternal Life. Sin is no longer an issue it has been taken away, belief or unbelief in Gods promise (the free gift of Eternal Life) is what a person is faced with.

But it is the person by faith trusting in The Messiah for the free gift of The Messiah's Eternal Life that gives a person Eternal Life. Gods gift is Eternal Life and not faith, every person has the ability to exercise faith (in something), but when a person uses their faith to trust in Jesus for Eternal Life they have it never to lose it.

well believing in God doesn't save, even having faith in Christ does not save, if Christ did not die. The fact that He died and rose means our faith is not in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:4. So it's not faith alone but grace through faith. For faith alone does not save, but faith in Christ's salvation which was by grace.

 

[hedrick]

The alternatives all seem someone just slightly off to me, but I'm not sure I can say exactly why.

It seems that the question implies, without exactly saying, that God's acceptance is something unusual that has to be explained. But Jesus' teachings don't imply that. God created us and called us good. He loves us and accepts us.

I'm not quite a universalist. It seems that people can and unfortunately do throw that love back in his face. While we see this in the form of actions, I believe it's a basic orientation that is at a deeper level than either faith or works.

This is in a certain sense consistent with Calvin, who sees faith as a result of regeneration, which I would call a change in that basic orientation. However Calvin, following Augustine, thinks the default state of mankind is damned and we have to explain salvation. I think God created us good, and it's evil that is abnormal.

 

[d taylor]

well believing in God doesn't save, even having faith in Christ does not save, if Christ did not die. The fact that He died and rose means our faith is not in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:4. So it's not faith alone but grace through faith. For faith alone does not save, but faith in Christ's salvation which was by grace.

1st Corinthians is addressing a group of believers who were saying that there was no resurrection of the dead, verse 12. It is not telling people how to have eternal life.

All the miracles Jesus preformed including His death and resurrection should point a person back to Jesus so they can trust in Him for Eternal Life.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

You want Eternal Life Jesus is the only place to find it, it is not found in His miracles, they are the signs that should point you to The Messiah.

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

[St_Worm2]

...if you are 100% saved by faith that allows 0% for grace, if you are saved 100% by grace, that allows 0% for faith. So basically the sola fide, and sola gracia contradict, they are saying you are saved solely by two different things, well then it wouldn't be solely saved by faith it would be partially saved by faith and vice versa with gracia. I hope this time this makes this clear. If you wish to still use the article just copy and paste quotes from it.

OK, here are a few quotes from Sproul Jr's article (that I am hoping will help explain things a bit):

If there are five, how can even one of them be called sola?

It does, of course, in the end make perfect sense. The alones are not alone because they are talking, in a manner of speaking, on different wavelengths ... What sola Scriptura (for instance) is seeking to keep out isn’t grace, faith, Christ, or God’s glory. It’s trying to keep out unbiblical tradition. Grace alone doesn’t exclude the Bible, faith, Christ, or the glory of God.

In a very real sense, though they spin on different axes, these five are one ... The solas are precise and potent affirmations of this truth—it’s all about God.
​

The Solas are like 5 sides of the same coin, if we had 5-sided coins, that is They all point to one truth, that it's not about us, it's all about God. For instance, the 5 Solas tell us, from different angles or POV, that our salvation (which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from any works that 'we' do) is by Christ alone.

His righteousness (as a man, resulted from the perfectly righteous life that He led for us before His Father .. the righteous life that we were 'supposed' to live) is credited to our accounts by His Father, while our sins are credited to His account .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:21. So, by His righteous life we become righteous, and by His death, our sins (and the Father's wrath) are atoned for/satisfied, and we become innocent again.

The Reformers used the 5 Solas to address different Biblical heresies (that's why there are 5), but they all point back to that same Biblical truth that we just discussed above (they point us away from a man-centered salvation and back towards the Biblical one that can only be found in Christ. We are then, in a very real sense, saved from God, by God, for God).

So the answer to your OP poll question, "are we saved 1. by grace alone or 2. through faith alone" is "yes" (remember that the phrase grace alone is not seeking to exclude faith, rather, it seeks to tell us that our works have nothing to do with our salvation, only Christ's works do .. e.g. Romans 4:5, 11:6).

I hope that helps a bit, but please let me know if it didn't (I didn't have the time that I would have liked to have had tonight to give you a better constructed/thought-out answer). In fact, if the Lord helps me come up with a better way to explain all/part of this, I'll get back to you with those thoughts.

Blessings to you in Christ,
David

 

[createdtoworship]

1st Corinthians is addressing a group of believers who were saying that there was no resurrection of the dead, verse 12. It is not telling people how to have eternal life.

All the miracles Jesus preformed including His death and resurrection should point a person back to Jesus so they can trust in Him for Eternal Life.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

You want Eternal Life Jesus is the only place to find it, it is not found in His miracles, they are the signs that should point you to The Messiah.

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

yes I know, all the epistles were written to churches, and all the gospels technically were written for Jews accept pauls writings, that does not mean we are not saved as gentiles. You see my point, God wrote these books to local churches so that we can several thousand years later apply the living word to our lives directly.

 

[createdtoworship]

OK, here are a few quotes from Sproul Jr's article (that I am hoping will help explain things a bit):

If there are five, how can even one of them be called sola?

It does, of course, in the end make perfect sense. The alones are not alone because they are talking, in a manner of speaking, on different wavelengths ... What sola Scriptura (for instance) is seeking to keep out isn’t grace, faith, Christ, or God’s glory. It’s trying to keep out unbiblical tradition. Grace alone doesn’t exclude the Bible, faith, Christ, or the glory of God.

In a very real sense, though they spin on different axes, these five are one ... The solas are precise and potent affirmations of this truth—it’s all about God.
​

The Solas are like 5 sides of the same coin, if we had 5-sided coins, that is They all point to one truth, that it's not about us, it's all about God. For instance, the 5 Solas tell us, from different angles or POV, that our salvation (which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from any works that 'we' do) is by Christ alone.

His righteousness (as a man, resulted from the perfectly righteous life that He led for us before His Father .. the righteous life that we were 'supposed' to live) is credited to our accounts by His Father, while our sins are credited to His account .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:21. So, by His righteous life we become righteous, and by His death, our sins (and the Father's wrath) are atoned for/satisfied, and we become innocent again.

The Reformers used the 5 Solas to address different Biblical heresies (that's why there are 5), but they all point back to that same Biblical truth that we just discussed above (they point us away from a man-centered salvation and back towards the Biblical one that can only be found in Christ. We are then, in a very real sense, saved from God, by God, for God).

So the answer to your OP poll question, "are we saved 1. by grace alone or 2. through faith alone" is "yes" (remember that the phrase grace alone is not seeking to exclude faith, rather, it seeks to tell us that our works have nothing to do with our salvation, only Christ's works do .. e.g. Romans 4:5, 11:6).

I hope that helps a bit, but please let me know if it didn't (I didn't have the time that I would have liked to have had tonight to give you a better constructed/thought-out answer). In fact, if the Lord helps me come up with a better way to explain all/part of this, I'll get back to you with those thoughts.

Blessings to you in Christ,
David

but sola does in fact mean "alone' sola fide, for example does mean 'faith alone' without grace added. 'sola gracia' means grace alone without faith. He can arbitrarily try to explain it away, the problem is not with his commentary on the cries of the reformation but on the dogma of the reformation itself. You cannot defend mans wisdom against the background of God's word. If we were saved sola fide, or sola gracia, then God would say so, and He doesn't. We are saved by grace through faith when we repent of sins and turn to Christ.

 

[St_Worm2]

but sola does in fact mean "alone' sola fide, for example does mean 'faith alone' without grace added. 'sola gracia' means grace alone without faith. He can arbitrarily try to explain it away, the problem is not with his commentary on the cries of the reformation but on the dogma of the reformation itself. You cannot defend mans wisdom against the background of God's word.

That's not what the Reformers meant, as I tried to explain to you in my last post. It's true that I cannot defend man's wisdom if it stands in contrast to God's word, but I can (at least) try my best to correct a misunderstanding of the doctrines taught by the Reformers, doctrines that are based on (not against) the word of God.

If we were saved sola fide, or sola gracia, then God would say so, and He doesn't. We are saved by grace through faith when we repent of sins and turn to Christ.

OK, let me try something different, beginning with these two questions, 1. Why the Incarnation? 2. Why the Cross?

Were both necessary to secure our salvation, and if so, why?

Thanks! (I promise not to ask too many more questions, or to take too long to make another point after I hear your answers ).

Thanks!

--David

 

[Goodhuman]

Good Day, Goodhuman

It is a verse you have misused to teach (error) a works based Justification.

Does James 2:24 Deny Justification by Faith Alone?

In Him,

Bill

I don't teach, it is bible verse and is clear. It is matter if the human accept the bible (christianity) or not.

 

[createdtoworship]

That's not what the Reformers meant, as I tried to explain to you in my last post. It's true that I cannot defend man's wisdom if it stands in contrast to God's word, but I can (at least) try my best to correct a misunderstanding of the doctrines taught by the Reformers, doctrines that are based on (not against) the word of God.

OK, let me try something different, beginning with these two questions, 1. Why the Incarnation? 2. Why the Cross?

Were both necessary to secure our salvation, and if so, why?

Thanks! (I promise not to ask too many more questions, or to take too long to make another point after I hear your answers ).

Thanks!

--David

so if what was said was not meant, why not just retract what was said?

 

[d taylor]

but sola does in fact mean "alone' sola fide, for example does mean 'faith alone' without grace added. 'sola gracia' means grace alone without faith. He can arbitrarily try to explain it away, the problem is not with his commentary on the cries of the reformation but on the dogma of the reformation itself. You cannot defend mans wisdom against the background of God's word. If we were saved sola fide, or sola gracia, then God would say so, and He doesn't. We are saved by grace through faith when we repent of sins and turn to Christ.

Why are you adding repent of sins, to grace through faith, that is not found in the Bible especially in Ephesians 2

 

[St_Worm2]

so if what was said was not meant, why not just retract what was said?

Hello again createdtoworship, the Solas have the meaning that the Reformers assigned to them, my point from above was that you either do not understand or for some reason will not accept what they meant.

The only reason that I brought the Solas up to begin with (and posited Dr. Sproul Jr's article) was because of your poll, which began with you pitting sola fide (faith "alone") against God's grace (which is not what the Bible teaches .. e.g. Ephesians 2:8-10, nor is it what the Reformers taught or meant by their use of the word "Sola", when they said things like, we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and not by anything that we do). Though not written, the Reformers believed that these "solas" were inferred by the context of the Holy Writ, and so do I.

That all said, your thread's principle focus is hardly on the Reformers' Solas, so I thought it might be best to leave that behind (for now) and get back to your main point, which seems to be summed up by your poll's title, "How Are We Saved?", yes?

For me, this begins by looking at the Savior Himself, at what He did for us, and why, which is why I asked you these two questions in my last reply.

1. Why the Incarnation? 2. Why the Cross?
​

So, why did Jesus do what He did for us? Was all of it absolutely necessary for our salvation, and if so, why do you think it was?

Thanks!

--David

 

[d taylor]

It is Gods grace that He offers people the free gift of Eternal Life.

Which is received by people, when they exercise their faith/trust/belief in Jesus for the free gift of Eternal Life.

 

[createdtoworship]

Why are you adding repent of sins, to grace through faith, that is not found in the Bible especially in Ephesians 2

this is all in the OP feel free to read post number one, thanks.

 

[createdtoworship]

Hello again createdtoworship, the Solas have the meaning that the Reformers assigned to them, my point from above was that you either do not understand or for some reason will not accept what they meant.

The only reason that I brought the Solas up to begin with (and posited Dr. Sproul Jr's article) was because of your poll, which began with you pitting sola fide (faith "alone") against God's grace (which is not what the Bible teaches .. e.g. Ephesians 2:8-10, nor is it what the Reformers taught or meant by their use of the word "Sola", when they said things like, we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and not by anything that we do). Though not written, the Reformers believed that these "solas" were inferred by the context of the Holy Writ, and so do I.

That all said, your thread's principle focus is hardly on the Reformers' Solas, so I thought it might be best to leave that behind (for now) and get back to your main point, which seems to be summed up by your poll's title, "How Are We Saved?", yes?

For me, this begins by looking at the Savior Himself, at what He did for us, and why, which is why I asked you these two questions in my last reply.

1. Why the Incarnation? 2. Why the Cross?
​

So, why did Jesus do what He did for us? Was all of it absolutely necessary for our salvation, and if so, why do you think it was?

Thanks!

--David

again if what was said was that you have sola fide or 100% faith, and sola gracia (thats 200%) how can you have 200% of 100%? So there is a logical error in the very premise of having sola fide and sola gracia both refer to salvation. There is no way around that. If it's only by grace, then it's not by faith, if it's only by faith then grace is not there, hence the sola's. So again I repeat if what was said, was not meant by the reformers, why not just issue a retraction and say..."oops we messed up." Why defend errorsome dogma for hundreds of years after it's proven wrong, it's time to move on sir, move on to bigger and better things, like Just the Bible, sola scriptura. I agree with that statement, but none of the others. sola scriptura is the only one that works.