Are we saved by faith alone, or something more?

[Salvadore]

Salvation happens when we believe and understand what Christ did for us and why and we are so grateful, that we want to be obedient and do good works with the help of God. Plus, when we sin, and we will, we will confess our sin and God will forgive us. When we are in doubt we will seek answers from God through His Word and ask for advice from other Christians. We will live our lives with a different attitude than those who do not have faith. We are changed over time. I do not think the question of salvation can be answered with a simple yes or no. "Are we saved by faith alone?" "Are we saved by works?" "Are we saved by faith and works?" We are saved because God gave us the gift of faith, helps us live our lives with a grateful attitude when we ask Him ,and convicts us to confess when we have sinned. Nothing we can boast about. How do we know we do not have salvation? We do not believe or, maybe we do but we break the laws of God and make no apology. We do not seek Him or consider His feelings. We can be "good" people in our own minds and the minds of other people but we are not in the process of being conformed. So, if I ask if you believe and you say "yes", it doesn't tell me about your salvation. If I ask you if you do good works, it doesn't tell me about your salvation. If I ask you if you believe, follow Christ with the help of God and confess your sins when you fail, it tells me something about your salvation.

 

[hedrick]

While it is not always the case, a word used to describe a particular science, or belief, etc. should be indicative of how it sounds. A definition should fit what the label says. If we say "Sola" or "Alone" and then we define it to mean that such a thing is not alone, it is contradictory.

The 5 solas are answers to specific questions. "sola fide" is the answer to what constitutes justification, not what constitutes the Christian life.

 

[createdtoworship]

Salvation happens when we believe and understand what Christ did for us and why and we are so grateful, that we want to be obedient and do good works with the help of God. Plus, when we sin, and we will, we will confess our sin and God will forgive us. When we are in doubt we will seek answers from God through His Word and ask for advice from other Christians. We will live our lives with a different attitude than those who do not have faith. We are changed over time. I do not think the question of salvation can be answered with a simple yes or no. "Are we saved by faith alone?" "Are we saved by works?" "Are we saved by faith and works?" We are saved because God gave us the gift of faith, helps us live our lives with a grateful attitude when we ask Him ,and convicts us to confess when we have sinned. Nothing we can boast about. How do we know we do not have salvation? We do not believe or, maybe we do but we break the laws of God and make no apology. We do not seek Him or consider His feelings. We can be "good" people in our own minds and the minds of other people but we are not in the process of being conformed. So, if I ask if you believe and you say "yes", it doesn't tell me about your salvation. If I ask you if you do good works, it doesn't tell me about your salvation. If I ask you if you believe, follow Christ with the help of God and confess your sins when you fail, it tells me something about your salvation.

Yes I agree, the grateful aspect results in good works. But the scripture speaks of this action happening AT salvation. That is the tricky aspect of it. We are not saved by works, simply because that is the opposite of grace. But we are saved by repentance and faith. Turning from sin to the saviour, namely in the aspect of forsaking idols to the living God. An idol is anything we think about more than God. It could be sports, fitness, sex, money, jobs, hobbies. The stuff we go to bed thinking about, day dream about, and wake up thinking about, that is our idol. If it is God, then Good. But if it's not then we need to constantly forsake that idol in our life. Be anxious for nothing the scripture says. That does not mean we are perfect but it means that we don't 'practice' sin. For example a homosexual who is proud they are homosexual, and believes in Jesus. Well his lifestyle has not reflected his faith, so according to james his faith is invalid. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Salvadore]

I find that, by reading the threads, I have God on my mind more than I think about worldly things. This has been a good thread!

 

[JLB777]

be careful how you describe obedience, salvation by works is off topic for this thread. However if you wish to reword it to repentance, penitance that is ok. But salvation by merit, obedience or works is off topic.

I’m not saying obedience is salvation by works.

Obeying the Gospel, means we obey the call to repent.

This is the action of obedience or “work” of obedience that James describes as a living or active faith.


Repent means to turn to God.


The way we repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.


JLB

 

[createdtoworship]

I’m not saying obedience is salvation by works.

Obeying the Gospel, means we obey the call to repent.

This is the action of obedience or “work” of obedience that James describes as a living or active faith.


Repent means to turn to God.


The way we repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.


JLB

Yes, but no where is repentance maintaining or earning salvation. That is an important distinction. But I agree that obeying the gospel is repentance. But that same repentance without grace or faith will not save us. So there is no merit in the repentance itself.

 

[frumanchu]

I am sure there are other errors of reformed doctrine, but anyway that is why I don't adhere to dogma, just scripture.

Certainly not my assertion that any of us have perfectly correct doctrine. So long as we agree on the essentials, we are brothers and sisters in Christ and this is simply an intramural debate I just wanted to correct a particular error in representing the historical doctrine.

 

[JLB777]

Yes, but no where is repentance maintaining or earning salvation.

Do you believe when a person repents, turns to the Lord, by confessing Jesus as Lord, that this is a temporary commitment?


What is your understanding of Jesus being your Lord?


If He is your Lord, and you are in Covenant with Him, shouldn’t you obey Him?



Here are a couple of scriptures that speak to this —


“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Luke 6:46



“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4





JLB

 

[frumanchu]

Do you believe when a person repents, turns to the Lord, by confessing Jesus as Lord, that this is a temporary commitment?

What is your understanding of Jesus being your Lord?

If He is your Lord, and you are in Covenant with Him, shouldn’t you obey Him?

There's a difference between saying true faith that saves necessarily brings about repentance and works, and saying that the repentance and works that proceed from faith are themselves also the basis of salvation.

The only works that save us are those that Christ did in perfectly fulfilling all righteousness. Our works are simply our service and obedience, spurred by the Holy Spirit and motivated in gratitude for the grace He showed us in the Gospel. As has often been said, we are saved by faith alone but a faith that is never alone.

 

[hedrick]

There's a difference between saying true faith that saves necessarily brings about repentance and works, and saying that the repentance and works that proceed from faith are themselves also the basis of salvation.

I think we've got two definitions of repentance going around, repentance as a change in our primary orientation, and repentance from specific sins.

Jesus uses it in the first sense. Repentance in this sense is coming to faith. It's the same thing. Repentance in the second sense is, as you say, something that comes from faith.

 

[JLB777]

As has often been said, we are saved by faith alone but a faith that is never alone.

Yes. A faith that is alone can not save.

Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience or it remains dormant or dead.




JLB

 

[createdtoworship]

Do you believe when a person repents, turns to the Lord, by confessing Jesus as Lord, that this is a temporary commitment?


What is your understanding of Jesus being your Lord?


If He is your Lord, and you are in Covenant with Him, shouldn’t you obey Him?



Here are a couple of scriptures that speak to this —


“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Luke 6:46



“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4





JLB

Sir again, salvation by works is off topic for this thread, as stated in the OP. If you are a works salvationist, that is unorthodox and not part of this thread. If it persists here I will ask them to close the thread permanently.

 

[JLB777]

Sir again, salvation by works is off topic for this thread, as stated in the OP. If you are a works salvationist, that is unorthodox and not part of this thread. If it persists here I will ask them to close the thread permanently.

I’m certainly not a “works salvationist”.

I’m certainly not promoting salvation by works.


I believe what the scripture says, that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


He is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.



Do you agree that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him?



JLB

 

[createdtoworship]

I’m certainly not a “works salvationist”.

I’m certainly not promoting salvation by works.


I believe what the scripture says, that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


He is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.



Do you agree that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him?



JLB

Yes sir, we are saved by faith through grace, but there is nothing meritorious in the act of repentance itself. Grace is how we are saved, when we believe the gospel and turn from idols to the living God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes sir, we are saved by faith through grace, but there is nothing meritorious in the act of repentance itself. Grace is how we are saved, when we believe the gospel and turn from idols to the living God.

But that implies that one is doing something. Turning involves an action, right? If you do a 180, you are doing something, right? Does one have to keep turning from idols? What does turning from one's idols look like? Do you just mentally turn from idols and yet do nothing? Or does some form of action of some kind take place? Could somebody think you are working by turning from idols? Is not work something you do? Think.

Oh, and hey; While we are at it, where is this 'whole "turn from idols is not a work" teaching' in the Bible? Please show us the chapter and verse.

Is not the Lord our God a God of logic and order?
Did He not give us real world examples to illustrate spiritual truth with parables?

Side Note:

For example: If you turn from your idols of rock music and towards God in worshiping Him with traditional hymns, does that not involve throwing out (i.e. doing work) in throwing out one's rock music, and in buying a hymn book, or in having a digital device with internet service, a job to pay for it, and signing up with a YouTube account to listen to old hymns? Does that not require some form of effort to do so? Sure does. What is the difference between these actions and the other kinds of works mentioned in the Bible?

 

[createdtoworship]

Oh, and hey; While we are at it, where is this 'whole "turn from idols is not a work" teaching' in the Bible? Please show us the chapter and verse.

I understand that you believe works merit salvation, however any form of 'salvation by works' is off topic for this thread. Read the clause at the bottom of post one.

 

[JLB777]

Yes sir, we are saved by faith through grace, but there is nothing meritorious in the act of repentance itself. Grace is how we are saved, when we believe the gospel and turn from idols to the living God.

Do you understand we are to obey the Gospel?

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17


The Gospel command is repent.


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Repent means to turn to God: words of Christ in red —


I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 26:17-20


If we are called to turn to God then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our Lord.


The way we repent, turn to God, is by confessing Jesus as Lord.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

When Jesus becomes our Lord, then we are to obey Him as our Lord.





JLB

 

[createdtoworship]

Do you understand we are to obey the Gospel?

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17


The Gospel command is repent.


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Repent means to turn to God: words of Christ in red —


I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 26:17-20


If we are called to turn to God then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our Lord.


The way we repent, turn to God, is by confessing Jesus as Lord.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

When Jesus becomes our Lord, then we are to obey Him as our Lord.





JLB

yes I understand obeying the gospel as repenting of sin to Christ, however there is nothing meritorious in repenting. One can repent till they are blue in the face and be a moral person, but still headed to hell. So obeying the gospel is repenting of idols and having faith in the True God. So again, there is no salvific merit in obedience.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." Romans 11:6

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I understand that you believe works merit salvation, however any form of 'salvation by works' is off topic for this thread. Read the clause at the bottom of post one.

Turning to idols implies an action or work. For dogs can turn around and around and around and around and around by chasing their own tail. This definitely looks like the animal could get tired from working in this way.

In other words, you disqualify yourself within your own thread because you should not tell people to turn from idols and to God (Which implies an action or work of some kind). Work is all about effort or taking effort on some level. Just believing is another story. Again, I ask you to define what "turning from idols and to God" looks like. Do you work at a job? Do you know what work entails? Physical action, right? If turning from idols and to God is a physical action, then it is technically a work. But maybe you think it is all mental or a belief alone? If so, please explain.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

yes I understand obeying the gospel as repenting of sin to Christ, however there is nothing meritorious in repenting. One can repent till they are blue in the face and be a moral person, but still headed to hell. So obeying the gospel is repenting of idols and having faith in the True God. So again, there is no salvific merit in obedience.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." Romans 11:6

How do you define repentance?
How do you define obeying the gospel?
How do you define "turning from idols"?