Are we saved by faith alone, or something more?

How are we saved?

  • we are saved by faith alone

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • we are saved by grace

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • we are saved by grace through faith

    Votes: 14 53.8%
  • we are saved by grace through faith when we repent of sin

    Votes: 9 34.6%
  • God gives us grace to do works to continually save and resave ourselves

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • we are saved by works and salvation is lost whenever you sin and regained when you repent

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .
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FreeGrace2

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Sorry, referring to commentary to try and redefine a biblical word and it’s meaning is not being straightforward.
How silly. It is the commentaries, written by scholars, that define Greek words.

You seem to think that Greek words in the Bible have some sort of magical meaning beyond how the 1st Century writers of the NT used them. Nonsense.
 
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JLB777

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Works-salvationists usually don't come straight out and blatantly say, "we are saved by works," although they teach it and don't even seem to understand they are teaching it.


We are saved by grace through faith.


Hopefully that’s plain enough.


Once a person is saved by grace through faith, in which they are regenerated, they are now in Christ, being joined to Him, and are one Spirit with Him.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17


Jesus said that we must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how those who are saved, who are “in Christ”, are instructed to remain “in Him”.



Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


His Commandments are about love; loving God and loving our neighbor.



“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3



His Commandments are not burdensome.



Why is it, that Calvinism is so against walking in love, by keeping His commandments?


Those who do not keep His commandments are walking in hate.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JLB
 
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JLB777

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How silly. It is the commentaries, written by scholars, that define Greek words.

You seem to think that Greek words in the Bible have some sort of magical meaning beyond how the 1st Century writers of the NT used them. Nonsense.


Your opinion, nor the opinions of your favorite Calvinist “scholars” doesn’t change the truth of God’s word.


“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:19-20




Repent means turn to God.




JLB
 
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FreeGrace2

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Your opinion, nor the opinions of your favorite Calvinist “scholars” doesn’t change the truth of God’s word.
lol. I'm hardly a Calvinist. I can prove from Scripture that NONE of the 5 favorite points (TULIP) are biblical.

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:19-20
Repent means turn to God.
Why can't it mean CHANGE YOUR STUPID MIND work for King Agrippa?

In fact, Paul gave him 2 "suggestions". First, change his mind, and THEN to turn to God.

Do you really think Paul was studdering and repeating himself?
 
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Danthemailman

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We are saved by grace through faith.

Hopefully that’s plain enough.
Those words are plain enough, but by the time works-salvationists get through defining faith, works are included one way or the other.

Jesus said that we must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.
The Greek word for "abide" is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. This is not something that only super saints do.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here is how those who are saved, who are “in Christ”, are instructed to remain “in Him”.
Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). The fruitless (not bearing fruit, mh peron karpon) the vine-dresser "takes away" (airei) or prunes away. Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.

John 15:2 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
This is descriptive of believers/those who are born of God. Works-salvationists typically confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture and the end result is salvation maintained by works.

His Commandments are about love; loving God and loving our neighbor.

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

His Commandments are not burdensome.
By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved, demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. (descriptive of believers) 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, (descriptive of unbelievers) is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Why is it, that Calvinism is so against walking in love, by keeping His commandments?
Typical straw man argument by works-salvationists.

Those who do not keep His commandments are walking in hate.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Descriptive of unbelievers. You are trying to create two classes of Christians. Those who love their brother and have eternal life and those who hate their brother and no longer have eternal life and in the process are teaching "type 2 works salvation."

How about a little context. 1 John 3:10 - By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

*1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. :)
 
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createdtoworship

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The Greek word doesn't mean that.

From bible hub.com regarding the word 'repent' in Acts 2:38.

Strong's Concordance 3340
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Definition: to change one's mind or purpose
Usage: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from meta and noeó
Definition
to change one's mind or purpose

The Greek word is made up of 2 words; meta, meaning "to change", and noeo, meaning "the mind".
Yes but that is not the only greek word for repentance, there are two. Free gracers quote the one only that has less responsibility to it.
 
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frumanchu

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Here is how those who are saved, who are “in Christ”, are instructed to remain “in Him”.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

His Commandments are about love; loving God and loving our neighbor.

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

His Commandments are not burdensome.

Let's address this directly: how perfectly must we keep his commandments in order to remain in Christ?
 
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FreeGrace2

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Yes but that is not the only greek word for repentance, there are two. Free gracers quote the one only that has less responsibility to it.
I'm using the actual Greek word as occurs in the verses. What are you referring to?
 
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createdtoworship

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I'm using the actual Greek word as occurs in the verses. What are you referring to?
you are referring to metanoeo, while there is another greek word for repentance, metanoia, and that is used in the New testament 20 times. So one of these words refers to changing the mind, the other refers more to the physical aspect of turning around. All though there is some overlap of the meanings, they are not exactly the same. So in essence it is impossible to completely remove mans responsibility to physically turn out of repentance. I recommend simply reading the lordship index I posted before....

again we are saved by repenting of our sin and trusting in Christ's finished work, it is a free gift, not of works. There is no merit in the repentance or the obedience. Ephesians 2:8 it is a gift from God
 
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createdtoworship

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In a few days I am going to close this thread, as works salvationists have permeated yet another thread. I have asked them to not post here and one left but @JLB777 does not want to leave. The OP defines works and that its off topic here. So we will have to close it. But the positive aspect is that this allows us to remember how to debate other christian cults like jehovahs witnesses, and mormons. So get your last posts in. Thanks.
 
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JLB777

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In a few days I am going to close this thread, as works salvationists have permeated yet another harmless soteriology thread. I have asked them to not post here and one left but @JLB777 does not want to leave. The OP defines works and that its off topic here. So we will have to close it. But the positive aspect is that this allows us to remember how to debate other christian cults like jehovahs witnesses, and mormons. So get your last posts in. Thanks.


Their are no “works salvationist’s” on this thread.

You are slandering people with derogatory insults because you don’t care to read all the scriptures, just your favorite parts.


You reject the scriptures you don’t like, and vilify anyone who doesn’t agree with you.


This is the mark of someone who is deceived by cult teachings.




JLB
 
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JLB777

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Let's address this directly: how perfectly must we keep his commandments in order to remain in Christ?

Either you keep his Commandments or you don’t.

What your asking is how much hate can I walk in and still go to heaven.

If you sin, then repent and confess your sin.

Sin or disobedience is hate towards God and towards His people.


Here is the biblical definition of love.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His Commandments are not burdensome.


Do you struggle with refraining yourself from murdering people?

Do you struggle with lying?

Do you struggle with committing adultery?

Why do you desire to sin against people and God?



Maybe you believe hating people by stealing and murdering or lying to them is someone ok.


You will be in for a shock when you stand before your Lord on that Day.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15






JLB
 
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frumanchu

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Either you keep his Commandments or you don’t.

What your asking is how much hate can I walk in and still go to heaven.

If you sin, then repent and confess your sin.

Sin or disobedience is hate towards God and towards His people.


Here is the biblical definition of love.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His Commandments are not burdensome.


Do you struggle with refraining yourself from murdering people?

Do you struggle with lying?

Do you struggle with committing adultery?

Why do you desire to sin against people and God?



Maybe you believe hating people by stealing and murdering or lying to them is someone ok.


You will be in for a shock when you stand before your Lord on that Day.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15






JLB

ctw is absolutely right. You teach works righteousness...a false gospel that is no gospel at all. You redefine faith to substitute the accidents for the essence, and then go a step further to insist on perfect obedience. Nobody is saying that our life in Christ should not be one of pursuing obedience, but to insist that anything but PERFECT obedience indicates a lack of saving faith is to put the most heinous of burdens upon the believer.

His commandments are not burdensome; your false gospel is.
 
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FreeGrace2

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you are referring to metanoeo, while there is another greek word for repentance, metanoia, and that is used in the New testament 20 times. So one of these words refers to changing the mind, the other refers more to the physical aspect of turning around.
No, metanoeo is the verb (action), and metanoia is the noun. Kind of like believe and faith. Verb and noun. They aren't different.

I urge you to check 2 Pet 3:9 on biblehub.com and see for yourself what "repentance" means.

Strong's Concordance
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance
Usage: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3341 metánoia – literally, "a change of mind" ("after-thought"); repentance. See 3340 /metanoeō ("repent").

All though there is some overlap of the meanings, they are not exactly the same.
Like a verb and a noun.

again we are saved by repenting of our sin and trusting in Christ's finished work, it is a free gift, not of works.
We are saved by faith in Christ. And that requires changing one's mind about a number of things.

1. must realize (change the mind) about one's own sinfulness.
2. " " " " " " " need for salvation.
3. " " " " " that Christ is God.
4. " " " " " that Christ dief for your sins.
5. " " " " " you must trust Him to save you.
 
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FreeGrace2

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createdtoworship said:
In a few days I am going to close this thread, as works salvationists have permeated yet another harmless soteriology thread. I have asked them to not post here and one left but @JLB777 does not want to leave. The OP defines works and that its off topic here. So we will have to close it. But the positive aspect is that this allows us to remember how to debate other christian cults like jehovahs witnesses, and mormons. So get your last posts in. Thanks.
Their are no “works salvationist’s” on this thread.

You are slandering people with derogatory insults because you don’t care to read all the scriptures, just your favorite parts.
What you seem to be totally unaware of is that so many of the things you post looks just like a salvation by works program. I'll called your views the same as what the Pharisees believed. They WERE works salvationists.

You need to totally re-think your views and how to explain them if you truly are NOT a works salvationist.

You reject the scriptures you don’t like, and vilify anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
Apparently you aren't aware that is exactly how many view your own views.

This is the mark of someone who is deceived by cult teachings.
Ditto.
 
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createdtoworship

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No, metanoeo is the verb (action), and metanoia is the noun. Kind of like believe and faith. Verb and noun. They aren't different.

I urge you to check 2 Pet 3:9 on biblehub.com and see for yourself what "repentance" means.

Strong's Concordance
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance
Usage: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3341 metánoia – literally, "a change of mind" ("after-thought"); repentance. See 3340 /metanoeō ("repent").


Like a verb and a noun.


We are saved by faith in Christ. And that requires changing one's mind about a number of things.

1. must realize (change the mind) about one's own sinfulness.
2. " " " " " " " need for salvation.
3. " " " " " that Christ is God.
4. " " " " " that Christ dief for your sins.
5. " " " " " you must trust Him to save you.
yes sir I studied that one word for over five years. I know everything about it. Believe me. Here is a long book just on that one word, feel free to read it...

Except you repent, Ironside
 
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createdtoworship

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createdtoworship said:
In a few days I am going to close this thread, as works salvationists have permeated yet another harmless soteriology thread. I have asked them to not post here and one left but @JLB777 does not want to leave. The OP defines works and that its off topic here. So we will have to close it. But the positive aspect is that this allows us to remember how to debate other christian cults like jehovahs witnesses, and mormons. So get your last posts in. Thanks.

What you seem to be totally unaware of is that so many of the things you post looks just like a salvation by works program. I'll called your views the same as what the Pharisees believed. They WERE works salvationists.

You need to totally re-think your views and how to explain them if you truly are NOT a works salvationist.


Apparently you aren't aware that is exactly how many view your own views.


Ditto.
well I defined works salvation in the OP as this...... works, obedience to laws that merit eternal life. Repentance is granted by God, it's a gift. We are allowed to repent of our addictions and come to christ, it's not a work. If we were to think of it as meritorious, it would shipwreck our faith and would not be saved by grace. So hopefully that makes sense to you.
 
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