• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Are we saved by faith alone, or something more?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by createdtoworship, Feb 19, 2020.

How are we saved?

This poll will close on Sep 19, 2020 at 5:14 AM.
  1. we are saved by faith alone

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  2. we are saved by grace

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  3. we are saved by grace through faith

    14 vote(s)
    53.8%
  4. we are saved by grace through faith when we repent of sin

    9 vote(s)
    34.6%
  5. God gives us grace to do works to continually save and resave ourselves

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  6. we are saved by works and salvation is lost whenever you sin and regained when you repent

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

    +40,250
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Let's move on! Your thread's principle focus seems to be summed up by your poll's title, "How Are We Saved?".

    For me, answering that question begins by looking at the Savior Himself, at what He did for us, and why, which is why I asked you the two questions that I did (originally in Post #33 above).

    1. Why the Incarnation? 2. Why the Cross?
    So, why did Jesus do what He did for us? Also, was all of it absolutely necessary for our salvation, and if so, why do you think it was?

    Thanks!

    --David
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  2. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

    +1,550
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I believe this is all referred to completely in post one, please read that. I don't want to repeat stuff about salvation that is already posted in post one. If you have a question about a concept in post one, quote all the questionable concepts, and post a new post, and we can talk about it further. I hope that is ok. Thanks for moving on. I know as a former calvinist myself that there is a tendency to adhere to dogma, creeds or systems of interpretation. Eventually one day I simply read the Bible with no bias, no calvinistic interpretations, no arminian interpretations, I just read it without any preconceptions and allowed it to speak for itself. That is truly a freeing excersize. It ended up changing my soteriology in a matter of days. I had written soteriological journals on my website for years before hand. I thought I knew it all. I was in the process of writting a book. I am glad I didn't it was 100% wrong. I had a good dose of humble pie. Now I just ask for scripture in theological discussions. Scripture is what it all boils down to.
     
  3. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

    +1,345
    Catholic
    Married
    We’re saved by grace through faith because faith is the means to relationship or communion with the only One who can justify and therefore save us. Man was made for communion with God; we were made to know Him, and we exist in an unjust or disordered state by the very fact of not being in communion with Him. That seperation constitutes death for man.

    Jesus came, when the time was ripe, to reveal God to an extent and in a way that He’d never been revealed before: fully and personally. So that we know Him, and so believe and be reconciled with Him.
    “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

    And to know God is to love Him and within that relationship He can do a work in us as we cooperate with Him in it. By the same token we can turn back away from the God who makes us just; we can turn back to sin and it’s wages of death; we can forfeit and lose our state of justice IOW.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  4. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

    +1,550
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I agree, and what about repentance? I posted a good article in post one about the necessity of repentance, feel free to read it. If you disagree with anything in that post, quote it, and we can talk about it further. Thanks for putting your two cents in.
     
  5. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,038
    Non-Denom
    Married
    “Faith alone” is a misnomer.

    It’s a man made term, not found in the Bible, other than describing dead faith.


    Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
    James 2:17


    The “works” James refers to is obedience, not the works of the law, not good works, not work that earns a wage, but the corresponding act of obedience to the word from God By which we receive faith.




    JLB
     
  6. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

    +1,345
    Catholic
    Married
    I agree for the most part but, while passages from Scripture can support different positions perhaps, I think we put the cart ahead of the horse if we insist that genuine believers cannot fall away, and that they will necessarily persevere. I understand the gospel to say that we can enter life, we can become new creations as we realize relationship with God through the work of God the Son, but that as with any relationship we can also break it; we can turn back away and reject Him all over again, just as Adam did at the beginning. Jesus tells us that we must remain in Him and He in us, that, "Apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). We must do our part in staying with Him, and not returning to living by the flesh.

    Anyway, yes, if fallen away completely we'd need to have a change of heart again with genuine repentance, and God's forgiveness is inexhaustible.
     
  7. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

    +1,550
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    yes I agree. Some are saying that the works in question are before other believers. So 'evidence of faith" There is that too. I however agree with a more literal direct interpretation meaning that faith will change us. I wouldn't use the word works, as that directly contradicts grace. But I would use the word penitence of repentance, which does not contradict grace.
     
  8. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,038
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Amen.


    Repent in context with the Gospel, means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


    This is an eternal commitment to obey Jesus Christ as Lord.


    The way we repent is to confess Jesus As Lord.


    that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


    • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


    If Jesus is our Lord, then we are to obey Him.


    And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9




    JLB
     
  9. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

    +708
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    I forgot (or did not notice) you are the lordship salvation person, from a past topic.
     
  10. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

    +1,550
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    yes, I was a free gracer for five years, and I decided to just read the new testament in one sitting and just highlight all the repentance verses for salvation in blue, and highlight faith alone verses in green. I counted about fifteen verses speaking of faith alone without repentance, and over a hundred speaking of repentance from sin while being saved. It changed by soteriology over night literally. But don't get me wrong we are not saved by our performance. But repentance becomes a tool at salvation that we will use the rest of our christian life. If we miss the point of repentance at salvation, we can still be saved but it may take longer, and we may go through much carnal christian mentalities (years of disobedience), I was saved when I believed in Christ. But I didn't repent for over twenty years. I lived a carnal christian life. I don't think I wasn't saved. But when there were altar calls I would still go down. Something in me was telling me I needed to secure my salvation. I was at the time an OSAS once saved always saved calvinist. So I didn't think I wasn't saved, but still when there was an altar call, I would go down. What I realized was that years later, my spirit was telling me that while I was saved, I was not working my salvation out. I was living in sin with my girlfriend. And while still going to bible college. I was doing evangelism every week and praising the Lord, I was saved. But I still felt the need to get saved again during altar calls. That was my spirit telling me something was not right. I was in sin. I was making out with my girlfriend, and doing fornication with her, and God wanted me to live purely. Eventually she broke up with me because I had set a standard that our relationship was physical. And when I went to bible college that physical aspect was gone, there was no relationship left. And she dated one of my friends instead. God was working on my heart. So now I preach repentance. Works does not save. But if people realize that repentance is part of the gospel message, they will be more serious about their faith. It avoids luke warm christians. Those who confess with their mouth and deny with their life.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  11. frumanchu

    frumanchu God's justice does not demand second chances Supporter

    +450
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    I rejoice at your repentance and commitment to walk according to the Spirit. I do want to make one additional comment, and that is that Reformed doctrine affirms what you experienced. The term "OSAS" is not the same as the Reformed doctrine of eternal security. I'd be happy to explain the differences further, but I wanted to call attention to that because again as a Christian who holds to Reformed doctrine I affirm and celebrate your experience here.
     
  12. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

    +953
    Christian
    Married

    Good Day, JLB

    I would refer you to some older editions of Scripture:

    The Nuremberg Bible of 1483 had "allein durch den glauben," while the Italian Bibles of Geneva in 1476 and even 1538 had "per sola fide."

    In Him,

    Bill
     
  13. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

    +953
    Christian
    Married

    Good Day, JBL

    Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks...The new Heart given by God to His people under the New Covenant is the one that will believe, because it is made of flesh and not stone. The confession is the direct necessity (out working) of the heart that does indeed believe unto righteousness

    For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


    In Him,

    Bill
     
  14. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,038
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Thanks for your reply Bill.


    Do you understand the principle of faith in this part of the verse you quoted?
    • and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    JLB
     
  15. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,038
    Non-Denom
    Married

    I’m sorry Bill, I don’t know what this means.
     
  16. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

    +953
    Christian
    Married

    Good Day, JLB

    Sorry I mixed up you name..

    Yes I do in the larger context...

    For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

    In Him,

    Bill
     
  17. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

    +1,550
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I am sure there are other errors of reformed doctrine, but anyway that is why I don't adhere to dogma, just scripture.
     
  18. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,038
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Bill the principle of faith, found in Romans 10:10, is our obedient response to the Gospel command to repent.


    Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience, or it remains dormant, inactive, or as James says, dead as a body without the Spirit is dead, being lifeless.


    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


    The “work” that James refers to in this context, is the action of obedience.


    Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22


    • Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?


    The “work” by which Abraham was justified, was he responded to God in obedience, to offer his son Issac on the altar.


    Not the works of the law.
    Not good works
    Not work that earns a wage

    But the obedience of faith.

    This is what faith, (that we receive from God, when He speaks to us directly or indirectly through one He sends to preach the Gospel), requires in order to be complete and activated to function and produce the intended divine result.


    Paul calls this principle or law, the obedience of faith.


    But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


    To be continued...




    JLB
     
  19. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

    +1,550
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    be careful how you describe obedience, salvation by works is off topic for this thread. However if you wish to reword it to repentance, penitance that is ok. But salvation by merit, obedience or works is off topic.
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,880
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    While it is not always the case, a word used to describe a particular science, or belief, etc. should be indicative of how it sounds. A definition should fit what the label says. If we say "Sola" or "Alone" and then we define it to mean that such a thing is not alone, it is contradictory.

    If I buy a bottle of 100% pure water and it turns out it is not 100% pure water, then the package on the bottle is lying.

    I raised this issue with the label called "Sola Scriptura." While I am 100% for the teaching of Sola Scriptura, I believe we need the understanding by God or the Spirit as a part of knowing God's Word. Men and his own wisdom cannot teach us the Bible alone. Only God can truly illuminate our understanding of what His Word says.

    I made this point in this thread here:

    Reevaluating the term Sola Scriptura (Bible alone + God giving understanding on it is the truth).

    Anyways, I do not want to side track the thread. May folks carry on. I just wanted to quickly address what you wrote here.

    Blessings to you in the Lord today.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...