Are these points held by proponents of critical race theory (CRT)?

[Tom 1]

Now you're not being honest. You in fact posted about enslavement and colonization.

But go ahead and deny it again just to convince yourself.

No, simply posting some random comments that relate to the general subject isn't a response to a post. I'd appreciate it if you would actually read what the post you were responding to says.

If it isn't clear, think about this. If you were to say to someone 'I didn't like that TV show last night, I thought it was really boring' and the person replied 'Oh yes, I had a television once it's a thing that people watch things on' would you take that to be a natural response?

Simply responding to my post with some random platitudes about colonisation is pointless, assuming you actually have an interest in discussing the topic.

 

[SilverBear]

Unfortunately, we're losing liberty as freedom of speech is being assaulted by the left.
Notice I refer to the "left," not liberals, which are different.

It's not the left that is assaulting free speech by working to ban CRT

 

[The Barbarian]

It's not the left that is assaulting free speech by working to ban CRT

Well, technically, far-right politicians aren't trying to ban CRT; they just pretend it's being taught in public schools as a scare tactic, and lie about what it actually says.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, technically, far-right politicians aren't trying to ban CRT; they just pretend it's being taught in public schools as a scare tactic, and lie about what it actually says.

From what I've researched so far, you are correct. The ban on CRT has been pushed
by Republicans in states like Texas and Florida.

I stand corrected on that.

However, as the founder of CRT states;

Crenshaw said racism and white supremacy have persevered in the U.S. through law. I disagree with her on this for it's misleading. Critical race theory in the classroom: Understanding the debate

This teaches students that white people are the cause of the failures in black communities today. Why doesn't she focus on the breakdown of the black families as the cause ? Thomas Sowell says that this is the main cause, not racism by white's.

 

[The Barbarian]

This teaches students that white people are the cause of the failures in black communities today.

Your link suggests that, here:

"Critical race theory says I'm a white supremacist," Toth told ABC affiliate KVUE in a recent interview. "Anyone that is not a person of color is a white supremacist. ... That's ridiculous."
Critical race theory in the classroom: Understanding the debate

But this is a guy who admittedly hasn't studied CRT, and opposes even admitting to public school students that institutional racism has harmed people in the United States.

As I said, hiding the truth from school children is a huge mistake.

Does redlining black neighborhoods for loans affect economic conditions for black people? It does.

Does punishing black students in schools more severely for the same offenses as white students harm them? It does.

Does targeting black motorists for stops, even thought the data show that white motorists are more likely to have contraband, produce fear and lack of respect for the law in black communities? Of course it does.

Does Gerrymandering districts to keep black voters from electing representative of their choice harm them? How could you say it doesn't?

Do these things affect chances of black citizens succeeding? How could anyone argue otherwise?

Now, the question is: "Is this something white people do this because they hate black people, or have these institutional practices persisted, without overt hatred?

I believe the latter is true, which is why CRT avoids focusing on racist attitudes, and concentrates on the way institutions lead to racist discrimination.

Which is why the relatively few genuine racists in America fear CRT; by focusing on the systems that build privilege and harm, rather than on perceived evil among groups of people, CRT can be a useful tool for ending institutional racism.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Your link suggests that, here:

"Critical race theory says I'm a white supremacist," Toth told ABC affiliate KVUE in a recent interview. "Anyone that is not a person of color is a white supremacist. ... That's ridiculous."
Critical race theory in the classroom: Understanding the debate

But this is a guy who admittedly hasn't studied CRT, and opposes even admitting to public school students that institutional racism has harmed people in the United States.

As I said, hiding the truth from school children is a huge mistake.

Does redlining black neighborhoods for loans affect economic conditions for black people? It does.

Does punishing black students in schools more severely for the same offenses as white students harm them? It does.

Does targeting black motorists for stops, even thought the data show that white motorists are more likely to have contraband, produce fear and lack of respect for the law in black communities? Of course it does.

Does Gerrymandering districts to keep black voters from electing representative of their choice harm them? How could you say it doesn't?

Do these things affect chances of black citizens succeeding? How could anyone argue otherwise?

Now, the question is: "Is this something white people do this because they hate black people, or have these institutional practices persisted, without overt hatred?

I believe the latter is true, which is why CRT avoids focusing on racist attitudes, and concentrates on the way institutions lead to racist discrimination.

Which is why the relatively few genuine racists in America fear CRT; by focusing on the systems that build privilege and harm, rather than on perceived evil among groups of people, CRT can be a useful tool for ending institutional racism.

The article gives the actual definition of CRT from Kimberlé Crenshaw herself. It then goes onto say what Toth said about it, but he is calling it CRT when it's not what was
originally meant by CRT. You can say the meaning hasn't changed, but apparently those on both the right and the left are calling it CRT.

 

[The Barbarian]

Once Abraham Lincoln asked "If you count a tail as a leg, how many legs does a cow have?"

When someone said "Five", Lincoln replied "No. Calling a tail a leg, doesn't make it a leg."

Smart guy, Abe.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Once Abraham Lincoln asked "If you count a tail as a leg, how many legs does a cow have?"

When someone said "Five", Lincoln replied "No. Calling a tail a leg, doesn't make it a leg."

Smart guy, Abe.

And yet there are calls in various places to remove statues of Abraham Lincoln.

 

[The Barbarian]

And yet there are calls in various places to remove statues of Abraham Lincoln.

And George Washington Carver (at my alma mater) by a weird white supremacist club. It's not just historical racists being targeted, but also some who opposed slavery and/or racism.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

And George Washington Carver (at my alma mater) by a weird white supremacist club. It's not just historical racists being targeted, but also some who opposed slavery and/or racism.

I never heard of white supremacist trying to tear down that statue, but Abe Lincoln and
George Washington were targeted and in the news. The events were more popular
because of the heated politics of the time which was just last year.

 

[iarwain]

What do you guys think about the "new segregation", which has been mostly initiated by black principals and leaders? Where blacks are separated into their own classes because they have different cultural needs? Or are separated into their own housing areas on campus, so that they will have a safe space away from the stresses of dealing with other races?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What do you guys think about the "new segregation", which has been mostly initiated by black principals and leaders? Where blacks are separated into their own classes because they have different cultural needs? Or are separated into their own housing areas on campus, so that they will have a safe space away from the stresses of dealing with other races?

Freedom of association, isn't that in the Constitution ?

 

[The Barbarian]

The evidence can be misunderstood or blatantly false and being CRT is being used
for political purposes, it's often false.

True. Notice the blatant falsehoods about CRT being peddled by unscrupulous politicians.

What really chaps them about CRT, I think, is that it takes the focus away from blaming people and puts it on the structural issues that cause racist behavior.

So when cops focus on black motorists, even though white motorists are more likely to be carrying contraband, CRT doesn't say "Evil, racist cops"; it says "there are institutional factors that cause this racist effect that can't be merely attributed to racist police officers."

And that has two effects. First, it removes blaming that causes defensive resistance to change, and it suggests changing the structure of policing in a way that would be much more effective in ending racism.
Lose/lose from the view of a politician who depends on race baiting to keep his job.

 

[The Barbarian]

Slavery existed in every culture in history and more whites were enslaved in the Middle East than blacks were in the US. Slavery still exists in some areas of the Middle East.

We're just dealing with the issues in the United States. While racism was an integral part of this nation from the beginning, we've come a long way to change that.

There's some more yet to get done. Don't focus on how bad other societies are, or even how bad we were generations ago. Focus on what's left to do.

Blaming doesn't help much.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

We're just dealing with the issues in the United States. While racism was an integral part of this nation from the beginning, we've come a long way to change that.

There's some more yet to get done. Don't focus on how bad other societies are, or even how bad we were generations ago. Focus on what's left to do.

Blaming doesn't help much.

Getting over bitterness is the only solution.

As long as our society tries to erase history, the extreme right and extreme left will write their own version of history and force their agenda's on us.

I try to stay Christ centered and pray for the best. However, we're heading down
a very dangerous path as a nation.

 

[The Barbarian]

Getting over bitterness is the only solution.

The solution is to put an end to whatever racism remains in the system. Bitterness will fester until that ends. To forgive is divine, but you're asking a lot of minorities to be constantly divine. Every time some structural remnant of racism falls, there's less to forgive.

As long as our society tries to erase history

Things like past racism will be covered up in a failing effort to rewrite history.

Put it all up and let it be known. We aren't prisoners of past injustice, unless we pretend it didn't happen.

I try to stay Christ centered and pray for the best. However, we're heading down
a very dangerous path as a nation.

A Christian should never fear the truth.

It's not just racism. Our educational system has suppressed discussion of the vicious persecution of pacifistic Christians of German descent during WWI. There's a lot of things we should be aware of that weren't so great in our past.

It's not a failing to admit them. It's a high standard we should live up to.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The solution is to put an end to whatever racism remains in the system. Bitterness will fester until that ends. To forgive is divine, but you're asking a lot of minorities to be constantly divine. Every time some structural remnant of racism falls, there's less to forgive.

It will never happen. Racism and injustices will always take place. When ever
government tries to bring justice to one group, they cause injustice to others.

Unless people can get beyond the bitterness of past injustices and learn
to live in the present, they will only keep themselves in a state of anger
and hopelessness. They'll bring that pedagogic mindset to the younger
generation who will only allow governments to bring on more pain and
suffering as we've seen throughout history.

Things like past racism will be covered up in a failing effort to rewrite history.

Put it all up and let it be known. We aren't prisoners of past injustice, unless we pretend it didn't happen.

Agreed. Don't cover up the past, it'd be like trying to ignore that the Nazi Holocaust
took place.

Keep people informed of history, but also teach them to understand the
context of the time as well and not to use a 21 Century mindset to judge
those who lived in the past. To fail to teach history properly ends up causing
people to repeat the same mistakes. Too many today think they would never
have gone along with the Nazi's if they lived in 1930's Germany. However,
most people would have. To speak out against Nazism would've meant imprisonment
and death. Few would've had the spiritual strength to speak out against it.

A Christian should never fear the truth.

As long as it's indeed true a Christian should not fear it. However, we
live in a world where distortion of the truth is taking the forefront of
public opinion.

It's not just racism. Our educational system has suppressed discussion of the vicious persecution of pacifistic Christians of German descent during WWI. There's a lot of things we should be aware of that weren't so great in our past.

It's not a failing to admit them. It's a high standard we should live up to.

Again, the truth has to be taught, not some one's revision of history as we're seeing today.

Cancel Culture is real and driving away the knowledge of the past. Orwell predicted
what we're seeing would come true.

 

[The Barbarian]

It will never happen. Racism and injustices will always take place.

It's dying. When I was young, it was legally enforced in many states. Racists threw tantrums when a black entertainer got a show on network television, and a popular movie star declared that black people could have rights when they proved themselves to be as good a whites.

As I said, we've come a long way. We have a way yet to go. But racism is dying. In a sense, Trump did America a favor by pandering to the worst of them; by luring them out of the sewers, he let America get a good look at what we have yet to do.

Again, the truth has to be taught, not some one's revision of history as we're seeing today.

Right. Hiding things like segregation in the military, and structural racism in our institutions was a huge mistake. It's being addressed.

Cancel Culture is real

And has been. Hence the practice of covering up past racism, and new laws in red states, intended to hide those facts. Doesn't look like it's working, though.

Trump thought that stacking the courts would mean that his Orwellian vision for America would come true. Didn't work out that way. Even his appointees generally wouldn't cooperate. America is still America.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It's dying. When I was young, it was legally enforced in many states. Racists threw tantrums when a black entertainer got a show on network television, and a popular movie star declared that black people could have rights when they proved themselves to be as good a whites.

As I said, we've come a long way. We have a way yet to go. But racism is dying. In a sense, Trump did America a favor by pandering to the worst of them; by luring them out of the sewers, he let America get a good look at what we have yet to do.



Right. Hiding things like segregation in the military, and structural racism in our institutions was a huge mistake. It's being addressed.



And has been. Hence the practice of covering up past racism, and new laws in red states, intended to hide those facts. Doesn't look like it's working, though.

Trump thought that stacking the courts would mean that his Orwellian vision for America would come true. Didn't work out that way. Even his appointees generally wouldn't cooperate. America is still America.

Well, Democrat presidents also stacked the courts with liberals, it's what presidents
do. All of my adult life, the SCOTUS leaned to the left. The most upsetting was
when they ruled that the state could take private property and hand it over to a
private developer. Pure communistic decision and Ginsberg wrote on approving it.

As far as being bitter, who has more right to be bitter than the Jews ? Yet, they moved on and are successful, despite the Holocaust.

Blacks today aren't suffering from racism and injustices of the past. As Thomas Sowell and other blacks have written, the break down of the black families and
absence of fathers is what the black community is suffering from most.

Myself, I refuse to feel guilty for what blacks suffer today. For many, they suffer
because of the lack of moral values in their own communities.

 

[JimR-OCDS]