Are these points held by proponents of critical race theory (CRT)?

[The Barbarian]

Ah, so Johnny is a conservative. I get it.

 

[SilverBear]

Well, Democrat presidents also stacked the courts with liberals, it's what presidents
do. All of my adult life, the SCOTUS leaned to the left. The most upsetting was
when they ruled that the state could take private property and hand it over to a
private developer. Pure communistic decision and Ginsberg wrote on approving it.

As far as being bitter, who has more right to be bitter than the Jews ? Yet, they moved on and are successful, despite the Holocaust.

Blacks today aren't suffering from racism and injustices of the past. As Thomas Sowell and other blacks have written, the break down of the black families and
absence of fathers is what the black community is suffering from most.

Myself, I refuse to feel guilty for what blacks suffer today. For many, they suffer
because of the lack of moral values in their own communities.

Do you realize how hateful and bigoted posts like this are?

 

[The Barbarian]

Well, Democrat presidents also stacked the courts with liberals, it's what presidents
do. All of my adult life, the SCOTUS leaned to the left. The most upsetting was
when they ruled that the state could take private property and hand it over to a
private developer. Pure communistic decision and Ginsberg wrote on approving it.

Well, it predated Marxism by a bit...

The U.S. Supreme Court first examined federal eminent domain power in 1876 in Kohl v. United States. This case presented a landowner’s challenge to the power of the United States to condemn land in Cincinnati, Ohio for use as a custom house and post office building. Justice William Strong called the authority of the federal government to appropriate property for public uses “essential to its independent existence and perpetuity.” Kohl v. United States, 91 U.S. 367, 371 (1875).

The Supreme Court again acknowledged the existence of condemnation authority twenty years later in United States v. Gettysburg Electric Railroad Company. Congress wanted to acquire land to preserve the site of the Gettysburg Battlefield in Pennsylvania. The railroad company that owned some of the property in question contested this action. Ultimately, the Court opined that the federal government has the power to condemn property “whenever it is necessary or appropriate to use the land in the execution of any of the powers granted to it by the constitution.” United States v. Gettysburg Electric Ry., 160 U.S. 668, 679 (1896).
History Of The Federal Use Of Eminent Domain

BTW, Donald Trump loved using eminent domain to get property he wanted:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news.../08/19/donald-trumps-abuse-of-eminent-domain/

As far as being bitter, who has more right to be bitter than the Jews ? Yet, they moved on and are successful, despite the Holocaust.

You'd like blacks doing to former segregationists what the Jews have done to Nazis?

Blacks today aren't suffering from racism and injustices of the past.

For example, police stop and search the cars of black motorists more often than those of white motorists, even though the cars of white motorists are more often found to contain contraband.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-racial-profiling-traffic-stops-met-20140813-story.html

So yes, we're still seeing that kind of racism/injustice. There's more. Would you like to see more?

Blacks are understandably not very pleased to hear those excuses.

 

[The Barbarian]

Do you realize how hateful and bigoted posts like this are?

That's the point. They really aren't. Most people who say that sort of thing, never examine the story to check if it's accurate. Evil intent is less an issue than the way things are structured in this society.

It's why CRT is recognized by racists to be a very dangerous thing, indeed.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, it predated Marxism by a bit...

The U.S. Supreme Court first examined federal eminent domain power in 1876 in Kohl v. United States. This case presented a landowner’s challenge to the power of the United States to condemn land in Cincinnati, Ohio for use as a custom house and post office building. Justice William Strong called the authority of the federal government to appropriate property for public uses “essential to its independent existence and perpetuity.” Kohl v. United States, 91 U.S. 367, 371 (1875).

The Supreme Court again acknowledged the existence of condemnation authority twenty years later in United States v. Gettysburg Electric Railroad Company. Congress wanted to acquire land to preserve the site of the Gettysburg Battlefield in Pennsylvania. The railroad company that owned some of the property in question contested this action. Ultimately, the Court opined that the federal government has the power to condemn property “whenever it is necessary or appropriate to use the land in the execution of any of the powers granted to it by the constitution.” United States v. Gettysburg Electric Ry., 160 U.S. 668, 679 (1896).
History Of The Federal Use Of Eminent Domain

This is different than what took place in Connecticut. It the above example,
it was the government taking private property and using it for the good of the
people. In Connecticut, it was taking people's homes which was water front property and turning it over to a private developer so he could build high-rent condominiums.
It went all the way to the SCOTUS who ruled that the state had the right to take
private property and turn it over to a private developer if the state sees the extra tax revenue it will receive as being better for the community. This was communism and states even MA immediately made laws to prohibit this. Michael Dukakis tried to do this before the SCOTUS decision and even had the gall to have the Sierra Club and other environmental groups help the state a privately owned part of take Mt Greylock in Western MA. The environmental groups thought it was to make expand the state forest there. However, it turned out Governor Dukakis planned on turning the land over to a private developer in Connecticut, who had plans to make a winter ski resort there, along with condominiums and such. The environmentalists were shocked and they went out to the nation when Dukakis ran for president, to tell people not to vote for this guy. Luckily, he was defeated. He was the worse governor I saw in this state in my entire life.

BTW, Donald Trump loved using eminent domain to get property he wanted:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news.../08/19/donald-trumps-abuse-of-eminent-domain/

I have no doubt Trump would try to get the state to take property under eminent domain for his own private purposes. This why you should've been angered as most
of us were when the SCOTUS ruled in favor of the town in Connecticut that was taking land from home owners only to turn it over to a private developer.

You'd like blacks doing to former segregationists what the Jews have done to Nazis?

Segregation isn't committing genocide like Hitler did. Not even close

As it is, Blacks are segregating themselves in Colleges and in their own communities.
Only white people have been forced to end segregation.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That's the point. They really aren't. Most people who say that sort of thing, never examine the story to check if it's accurate. Evil intent is less an issue than the way things are structured in this society.

It's why CRT is recognized by racists to be a very dangerous thing, indeed.

As CRT is being hi-jacked by the left, it is a dangerous thng.

Do you favor getting rid of July 4th as the birth of the nation and replacing it
with 1619 ?

 

[The Barbarian]

As CRT is being hi-jacked by the left, it is a dangerous thng.

Yeah, if there was less structural racism, whatever would we do? But I'm noticing most people howling about CRT are on the extreme right, not the left.

Do you favor getting rid of July 4th as the birth of the nation and replacing it with 1619 ?

I don't know what I'd do between July 3 and July 5 otherwise. I'm kinda used to having a 4th day in July.

You know the KKK says that the Birth of a Nation happened in April 12, 1861, do you not?

The founders did consider the United States to be nations long before July 4, 1776. Not a nation, but "free and independent states", as the Declaration puts it. Nations. We became one nation properly speaking, with the end of the Confederation and the Ratification of the Constitution.

July 4 wasn't even a federal holiday until the late 1800s. But I'm kinda used to it, and I'd like to keep it.

Interestingly, even when I was in high school, 1619 was in my history book, marking two important events:

• The formation of a representative form of government in Jamestown by the colonists there.
• The first documented importation of African people as slaves.

Kind of a mixed bag, 1619, but historically important, and worth teaching in American history. Independence from Britain came much later, and that is also worth noting, IMO.

 

[The Barbarian]

This is different than what took place in Connecticut.

Turns out, giving power to the government isn't a one-of thing.

Segregation isn't committing genocide like Hitler did.

Let's see... denying education and voting... segregating into ghettos...confiscating property without fair payment... "real citizens" allowed to kill the oppressed group with impunity... Hitler was just more efficient at it. This is why KKK and Nazis are so closely aligned.

But would you like black people to do to those people what the Jews did to the Nazis?

As it is, Blacks are segregating themselves in Colleges

They did, mostly because in conservative areas, they weren't allowed in other colleges. In my alma mater, BTW, George Washington Carver inadvertently desegregated the dining hall. He had been told to eat in the kitchen, and the other students took offense at this; they also all went to the kitchen to eat with him. The university then relented, and that was that.

BTW, historically black universities allow white students to enroll, and most of them have significant numbers of white students.

and in their own communities.

Covenant restrictions at one time, kept blacks out of "white neighborhoods." It's not like that, now, and integration is proceeding. However, (CRT again) there are structural racist factors that tend to keep segregated housing. Should we discuss some of those?

Only white people have been forced to end segregation.

Can you name one black school or neighborhood that is allowed a "blacks only" policy?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Yeah, if there was less structural racism, whatever would we do? But I'm noticing most people howling about CRT are on the extreme right, not the left.

Structural racism ? Never heard of it. Did you just make that up or are you living
back in 1800's ?

You know the KKK says that the Birth of a Nation happened in April 12, 1861, do you not?

And few Americans, never mind the leaders in government listen to what the KKK has to say. They are listening to the 1619 crowd however and that's the problem

The founders did consider the United States to be nations long before July 4, 1776. Not a nation, but "free and independent states", as the Declaration puts it. Nations. We became one nation properly speaking, with the end of the Confederation and the Ratification of the Constitution.

When they signed the Declaration of Independence, we became a Nation in 1776.
The signers were mostly aristocrats who had they not signed, would've gone on
living comfortable lives. But they had a vision about liberty and put their lives at risk
as soon as the signed the document. King George put a bounty on their heads and if captured, they would've been hung. The nation didn't just happen, but came into being with a vision about independence, but also the rights of men to pursue their
own destiny. It was the first undertaking by a nation and it took a great amount
of courage to go against the British crown at that time.

July 4 wasn't even a federal holiday until the late 1800s. But I'm kinda used to it, and I'd like to keep it.

But Americans celebrated it before it was made an official holiday.
1619 was never considered a holiday as the founding of the United
States, which didn't exist then.

Interestingly, even when I was in high school, 1619 was in my history book, marking two important events:

• The formation of a representative form of government in Jamestown by the colonists there.
• The first documented importation of African people as slaves.

I was only taught that Jamestown was the first English Settlement in 1607.
It lasted about 100 years before being abandoned in 1699. I never heard
of 1619 as being an important date. Knowing about 1619 when the first slaves
arrived wasn't really that important information in the founding of the United States.

As it is, there were only 20 blacks at Jamestown.

On August 20, 1619, “20 and odd” Angolans, kidnapped by the Portuguese, arrive in the British colony of Virginia and are then bought by English colonists.
First enslaved Africans arrive in Jamestown, setting the stage for slavery in North America

Kind of a mixed bag, 1619, but historically important, and worth teaching in American history. Independence from Britain came much later, and that is also worth noting, IMO.

Interesting, but inaccurate to call it the found date of the United States which
didn't come until 157 years later and there was still the French Indian War to come before that. I don't see how 1619 was an important date to remember.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Interesting, but inaccurate to call it the found date of the United States which
didn't come until 157 years later and there was still the French Indian War to come before that.

Nobody is arguing that 1619 marked the foundation of the United States as a sovereign nation. That argument is absurd.

I don't see how 1619 was an important date to remember.

Maybe you should read the project.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Nobody is arguing that 1619 marked the foundation of the United States as a sovereign nation. That argument is absurd.



Maybe you should read the project.

There is the 1619 Project which is attempting to make 1619 the date for the
founding of the United States. Google it if you doubt me.

Here's one explanation........https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/historians-clash-1619-project/604093/

And this one says

The “1619 Project” was launched in August with a 100-page spread in the Times’s Sunday magazine. It intends to “reframe the country’s history” by crossing out 1776 as America’s founding date and substituting 1619, the year 20 or so African slaves were brought to Jamestown, Va. The project has been celebrated up and down the liberal establishment, praised by Sen. Kamala Harris and Mayor Pete Buttigieg.
Opinion | The ‘1619 Project’ Gets Schooled

 

[iluvatar5150]

There is the 1619 Project which is attempting to make 1619 the date for the founding of the United States. Google it if you doubt me.

Here's one explanation........https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/historians-clash-1619-project/604093/

I'm familiar with the 1619 Project and the point they're trying to make by emphasizing that date. They never argued that 1619 marked the birthplace of the United States as a formal geopolitical entity. Their point was that 1619 marked the birthplace of the racist soul of American society.

This Quillette piece describes some of the edits:
Down the 1619 Project’s Memory Hole

IMO, they never should have made those edits and Hannah-Jones should have stood her ground on the point instead of retreating in a way that made her look dishonest. Agree or disagree with it, her point was clear to anybody who understood basic reading comprehension.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I'm familiar with the 1619 Project and the point they're trying to make by emphasizing that date. They never argued that 1619 marked the birthplace of the United States as a formal geopolitical entity. Their point was that 1619 marked the birthplace of the racist soul of American society.
.

But this is false as only 20 slaves came to Jamestown in 1619 out of the
700 Europeans who came between 1607 and 1619

The claim by the 1619 Project is that America was founded in 1619 by the
arrival of 20 slaves to Jamestown. This is false. America was not founded
on that ideology. This is from the very article you linked;
It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding






As I posted from the WSJ article, there was a push to replace July 4th as
the birthdate of America and replace it with 1619. However, as the two
articles pointed out, historians reacted to the false claims the 1619 Project
was making. One historian stated that they were replacing historical fact with
ideology.

 

[SilverBear]

There is the 1619 Project which is attempting to make 1619 the date for the
founding of the United States. Google it if you doubt me.

Here's one explanation........https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/historians-clash-1619-project/604093/

And this one says

The “1619 Project” was launched in August with a 100-page spread in the Times’s Sunday magazine. It intends to “reframe the country’s history” by crossing out 1776 as America’s founding date and substituting 1619, the year 20 or so African slaves were brought to Jamestown, Va. The project has been celebrated up and down the liberal establishment, praised by Sen. Kamala Harris and Mayor Pete Buttigieg.
Opinion | The ‘1619 Project’ Gets Schooled

you are quoting an opinion. What does the 1619 project and those who wrote it say?