Are these points held by proponents of critical race theory (CRT)?

[JimR-OCDS]

Can you show us a public school system that actually teaches CRT? I've looked and other than a few high schools that offer college credit for seniors, it's not there. What have you found?



From the start, it was that way. Remember, the founders O.K.'ed slavery and decided that slaves were a fraction of a white person.

Racism as late as WWII was the law for federal offices and the military. It was locked into the structure of our laws and government. Into the 70s, racism was the law in many states. So there is that.

Yes, conservatives don't want to talk about it, now, but it's a fact of our history.

Hiding it will do no good. Lying to children is always a bad idea.

Here's just one article of others about California.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/14/calif...-mandates-ethnic-studies-course-based-on-crt/

John Adams and Ben Franklin opposed slavery. They had to go side step
from outlawing at that time in order to get the southern states to join
the union. Also, the 3/5ths count for slaves was pushed by the southern legislators who actually wanted slaves to be counted as a whole person, so they could get more pro-slave seats in Congress. The anti-slave members of Congress didn't want them counted at all, which would served slaves better.

 

[Tom 1]

Slavery existed in every culture in history and more whites were enslaved in the Middle East than blacks were in the US. Slavery still exists in some areas of the Middle East.

The US was not built on slavery as the poorest states were those where slavery was legal, which were in the south.

The Northern States were slavery was illegal was industrialized which contributed far more than the poor south.

If not for the Union which lost 300,000 fighting against the Confederates, slavery would continued far longer.

Sure, but none of those points is what my post is about. The classification of some ethnic groups as subhuman to justify how they were treated is an integral part of the history of colonisation. Racism is part of the thread and cloth of the American experiment, without racism the US would not have become the country it is today.

For some reason people take basic information like that and take it to mean something entirely different. Why that is, I can’t say.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Yes, it's blatantly misrepresented by the right, who often claim it means things it does not, and who pretend it's being taught in elementary and high schools.



That's how they made it into a boogeyman.

Heck you deny it's even being taught in school systems. I gave you
one article about California doing just that. There are others. Parents
aren't complaining because they've been mislead about what their
own school system is doing.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Sure, but none of those points is what my post is about. The classification of some ethnic groups as subhuman to justify how they were treated is an integral part of the history of colonisation. Racism is part of the thread and cloth of the American experiment, without racism the US would not have become the country it is today.

.

This is false. Racism exists among all races, I've experienced first hand racism
from blacks against whites.

Everything is seen as racist today, but it's white men who are racists against
blacks and Asians. What the MSM isn't reporting is that most crimes against
Asians are committed by blacks, not whites.

Also, when the white privilege argument was being made, it was shown that Asians
are economically better off than whites. Yet there is no talk about Asian privilege.

The way the news has been lately, you'd think there is a white supremacists around
every corner. Such is not the case and I have never met a member of a white supremacist group. I'm Catholic so the KKK isn't very fond of me.

 

[Tom 1]

This is false. Racism exists among all races, I've experienced first hand racism
from blacks against whites.

Everything is seen as racist today, but it's white men who are racists against
blacks and Asians. What the MSM isn't reporting is that most crimes against
Asians are committed by blacks, not whites.

Also, when the white privilege argument was being made, it was shown that Asians
are economically better off than whites. Yet there is no talk about Asian privilege.

The way the news has been lately, you'd think there is a white supremacists around
every corner. Such is not the case and I have never met a member of a white supremacist group. I'm Catholic so the KKK isn't very fond of me.

Nothing you are saying here in any way addresses my post. Is it false that there are sparrows in Romania if there are also sparrows in China? If you want to address the post, address what is in the post, throwing out some tangential ideas doesn't do that.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Sure, but none of those points is what my post is about. The classification of some ethnic groups as subhuman to justify how they were treated is an integral part of the history of colonisation. Racism is part of the thread and cloth of the American experiment, without racism the US would not have become the country it is today.

For some reason people take basic information like that and take it to mean something entirely different. Why that is, I can’t say.

It was about slavery which addressed your post about enslavement and colonization.

Racism is part of every culture, not just American Culture. However, if the USA were
so racist, why did 3 million black people immigrate to the US from Africa and the Caribbean over the past 20 years ? Why not go to Canada or some other place that is not racist ?

 

[Tom 1]

It was about slavery which addressed your post about enslavement and colonization.

Nope. You can read my post again and respond to what it actually says, if you like, or you can go off on some vaguely related tangents. Simply saying but this but that does nothing to address the legacy of inequality in the US, which is one reason why it is such a challenge for CRT proponents to get anything done about it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Nope. You can read my post again and respond to what it actually says, if you like, or you can go off on some vaguely related tangents. Simply saying but this but that does nothing to address the legacy of inequality in the US, which is one reason why it is such a challenge for CRT proponents to get anything done about it.

Now you're not being honest. You in fact posted about enslavement and colonization.

But go ahead and deny it again just to convince yourself.

 

[The Barbarian]

Slavery existed in every culture in history and more whites were enslaved in the Middle East than blacks were in the US.

Which is not justification for us to hide the fact that our nation was founded with legalized slavery.

The US was not built on slavery.

It was in the Constitution.
Slavery Provisions in the U.S. Constitution

Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.
https://www.colorado.edu/herbst/sites/default/files/attached-files/brooks_lunch_seminar_day_2.pdf

If not for the Union which lost 300,000 fighting against the Confederates, slavery would continued far longer.

True. The Civil War was essentially over the issue of slavery.

 

[SilverBear]

Slavery existed in every culture in history and more whites were enslaved in the Middle East than blacks were in the US. Slavery still exists in some areas of the Middle East.

citation?

The US was not built on slavery as the poorest states were those where slavery was legal, which were in the south. The Northern States were slavery was illegal was industrialized which contributed far more than the poor south.

at the outbreak of the civil war over half of all US export earnings were from one souce, slave grown cotton. 70% of all exports from the United States at the time were slave based agricultural products, cotton, tobacco, indigo, sugar, rum etc. Further most norhtern industries were reliant on
Ref Historical Context: Was Slavery the Engine of American Economic Growth? Steven Mintz[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[SilverBear]

It was about slavery which addressed your post about enslavement and colonization.

Racism is part of every culture, not just American Culture. However, if the USA were
so racist, why did 3 million black people immigrate to the US from Africa and the Caribbean over the past 20 years ? Why not go to Canada or some other place that is not racist ?

in 2016, the latest year i could find statistics for the United States received approximately 60,000 applications for immigration form individuals residing in sub Saharan Africa. In the same year the European Union received 178,000 applications for immigration from individuals residing in sub Saharan Africa Ref Philip Connor Sub-Saharan migration, Pew Research Center

 

[The Barbarian]

Ok, once again - why do you think that?

Look at the division in this forum on CRT.

I see a group, that has considered what CRT actually says, and where it is taught, and a group that does not seem know what it says, and does not realize that it is not being taught in public schools. Seems as thought the politicians trying to make a boogeyman of it, are responsible for the confusion.

 

[The Barbarian]

Here's just one article of others about California.

But even the right-wing source you cite, doesn't say that CRT is being taught in that system.

 

[The Barbarian]

From the start, it was that way. Remember, the founders O.K.'ed slavery and decided that slaves were a fraction of a white person.

Racism as late as WWII was the law for federal offices and the military. It was locked into the structure of our laws and government. Into the 70s, racism was the law in many states. So there is that.

Yes, conservatives don't want to talk about it, now, but it's a fact of our history.

Hiding it will do no good. Lying to children is always a bad idea.

John Adams and Ben Franklin opposed slavery. They had to go side step
from outlawing at that time in order to get the southern states to join
the union.

You seem to be making my point for me. As I said, racism was part of the nation from the start. The fact that some of the founders opposed slavery is beside the point that the racists got it their way.

No point in lying to schoolkids about it. Lay it out, and explain how we've gotten as far as we have. Don't lie to them about it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

From the start, it was that way. Remember, the founders O.K.'ed slavery and decided that slaves were a fraction of a white person.

Racism as late as WWII was the law for federal offices and the military. It was locked into the structure of our laws and government. Into the 70s, racism was the law in many states. So there is that.

Yes, conservatives don't want to talk about it, now, but it's a fact of our history.

Hiding it will do no good. Lying to children is always a bad idea.



You seem to be making my point for me. As I said, racism was part of the nation from the start. The fact that some of the founders opposed slavery is beside the point that the racists got it their way.

No point in lying to schoolkids about it. Lay it out, and explain how we've gotten as far as we have. Don't lie to them about it.

Racism was part of the nation, but not the main principle for which it was founded on.

John Adams and his wife Abagail were abolitionist and John wanted the end of
slavery to be in the Declaration of Independence. Ben Franklin convinced him
to step slowly on this for the Southern States needed to be convinced that unity
of the nation must come first.

At that time, slavery was still legal in much of the world, and before that time, every
nation and culture had slaves. Even Native Americans enslaved people from enemy tribes the raided.

Slavery and racism were part of the nation, but not what the principle the nation
was founded on, and it's not how we got to have the freedoms we have today.
The United States was a unique experiment when it started and no other nation
was founded without Kings and Emperors to rule them.

Unfortunately, we're losing liberty as freedom of speech is being assaulted by the left.
Notice I refer to the "left," not liberals, which are different.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Which is not justification for us to hide the fact that our nation was founded with legalized slavery.



It was in the Constitution.
Slavery Provisions in the U.S. Constitution

Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.
https://www.colorado.edu/herbst/sites/default/files/attached-files/brooks_lunch_seminar_day_2.pdf



True. The Civil War was essentially over the issue of slavery.

The north was attempting to end slavery which is why this ended up in the Constition
as the pro-slave states wanted to count slaves in their census, so they could gain
more seats in the House of Representatives. They only got to count slaves as 3/5's but slaves would've been better served by not being counted at all.

You keep bringing this up and ignore the context for which it was included
in the Constitution. However, it's not the principle that the nation was founded on and not where we are today. It was before the Civil War which the Union fought to end slavery.

 

[The Barbarian]

The north was attempting to end slavery

Well, let's take a look...

Abraham Lincoln:
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

Having won the war, the progressives imposed abolition of slavery on the conservative southern states. The North, being more progressive on freedom, was hostile to slavery, so that was a side effect of saving the Union. Amendment XIV was a radical departure from the nation's founding.

You keep bringing this up, but it's not the principle that the nation was founded on

It was founded on the idea that some people were free and others were slaves. Women weren't free then, either, and in a number of states, you weren't free if you weren't of the "right religion." Until Amendment XIV, states were free to violate the Constitution.

and not where we are today.

No kidding. We've come a long way. We have a long way to go. The last few years weren't unique; there have been steps backward, before. But we always move on.

 

[The Barbarian]

The United States was a unique experiment when it started and no other nation
was founded without Kings and Emperors to rule them.

No, that's wrong, too. The Hansiatic League, Kiev, San Marino, and others existed without kings or nobility.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

No, that's wrong, too. The Hansiatic League, Kiev, San Marino, and others existed without kings or nobility.

Those were not nations, but small communities. They still ruled over the people.

The United States was the first nation which formed a government that was
to be controlled by the people and not rulers or dictators.

What we have isn't perfect, but it's the best this world has seen and why
the United States draws people from all over the world. Why if this is such
a bad place to live ?

 

[The Barbarian]

Those were not nations, but small communities.

The Hansiatic league was larger than England. Novgorod was much larger than Moscow at the time.

They still ruled over the people.

No. They were ruled by the people of those nations.

The United States was the first nation which formed a government that was to be controlled by the people and not rulers or dictators

No. Examples noted above.

What we have isn't perfect,

But it's getting better. Racism, for example, is declining. From a nation that legalized slavery to today, is a massive improvement.