Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

[Always in His Presence]

This is promised to the community of the apostolic times and not to all believers in all ages.

1 Corinthians 12:29-30
King James Version
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Read the first eight words from Christ -

He is not addressing Apostles -

 

[ByTheSpirit]

This is promised to the community of the apostolic times and not to all believers in all ages.

1 Corinthians 12:29-30
King James Version
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Wrong and I must remind you if you do not adhere to the SoF of this subject you are not permitted to debate theology here.

 

[lanceleo]

Read the first eight words from Christ -

He is not addressing Apostles -

I did not say he was addressing only the Apostles but the would-be believers during their times.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Let's remember who we are in this forum:

WHO WE ARE

Spirit-Filled, Pentecostal and/or Charismatic believers can be from ANY Christian Denomination. They are those who believe that all the various spiritual gifts (or charisms) listed in the New Testament (including but not limited to the manifestations gifts found in I Corinthians 12:8-10) are active in the Church today and desirable in the life of the individual believer, for the edification of the Body of Christ.
It is not a requirement that the individual exercises/exhibits any specific spiritual gift(s).

1 Cor 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.​

​

If you are a Brother or Sister in Christ that believes differently - we love you, we will rejoice with you throughout eternity in heaven, but this is not the place to dispute beliefs.

Much love and respect.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Is it God's will for all believers to be healthy?

Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Any sick people in heaven?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Any sick people in heaven?

Excellent response. May I add?

Beloved, I pray that in every way you may prosper and enjoy good health, as your soul also prospers.
3 John 1:2 BSB

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"no one is getting healed" My own personal experience says otherwise, you've testified in this thread otherwise to that. Perhaps you mean something different that what that reads on face value.

What is mean is that although the gift of healing is one of the 9 listed gifts of the Holy Spirit along with tongues and prophecy, which are used routinely in churches that believe in them, it is not, and although people are prayed for and have hands laid on them, most, if not all remain sick or disabled. Even the most popular and prolific healing preachers will not attempt to minister to serious medical and disability conditions. The ushers direct those to a back room while others with relatively minor conditions are allowed on stage.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Again, scripture is not based on humans ability, but God’s Word.

If you prayed with someone to accept Christ as their savior and they died and ended up in hell, did you lie to them?

The requirement for a person to get into heaven is that they believe in Jesus Christ. If you prayed for the person and they believed, then they are saved. So, if the gifts of healing are active in the church as the Scripture says, then a person being prayed for healing and they believed that God will heal them, they should be healed. I don't think that a person would submit himself for prayer if he didn't believe that he would be healed.

But there are definite promises that if a person believes in Christ they are saved. But I don't see any direct promises in the New Testament that a person will be routinely healed as the result of prayer and the laying on of hands. If you know of a New Testament promises, then write it down so we can examine it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The fact you state emphatically that no-one is getting healed amazes me. I have seen healing consistently over the last 38 years of ministry, into the thousands of people. It puzzles me that you do not -

It was put to Todd Bentley to produce five medical reports to show definite instant healing of serious medical conditions, and he couldn't. This was after his claims of thousands of healings in his conferences at Lakewood Church.

So if you can show five medical reports of people healed of terminal heart failure or terminal cancer in spite of medical professions giving these people up to die, then that will be credible to me. But if a prominent healing evangelist can't do it, I rather doubt that you could.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Where does He say that healing is guaranteed as the result of prayer and laying on of hands? Because He is not healing anyone on a routine basis today.

You have yet to respond to my showing very plainly Jesus doing exactly that - why is that.

 

[Always in His Presence]

It was put to Todd Bentley to produce five medical reports to show definite instant healing of serious medical conditions, and he couldn't. This was after his claims of thousands of healings in his conferences at Lakewood Church.

So if you can show five medical reports of people healed of terminal heart failure or terminal cancer in spite of medical professions giving these people up to die, then that will be credible to me. But if a prominent healing evangelist can't do it, I rather doubt that you could.

sounds like you do not believe the Charisms are active in the body today.

If so - you are in the wrong forum.

If you do believe they are still active then your argument is moot

 

[ByTheSpirit]

What is mean is that although the gift of healing is one of the 9 listed gifts of the Holy Spirit along with tongues and prophecy, which are used routinely in churches that believe in them, it is not, and although people are prayed for and have hands laid on them, most, if not all remain sick or disabled. Even the most popular and prolific healing preachers will not attempt to minister to serious medical and disability conditions. The ushers direct those to a back room while others with relatively minor conditions are allowed on stage.

But you can't possibly say "no one is getting healed". You have shared in this very thread how you have prayed for people and seen them receive healing, not to mention the others who have shared the same testimony. Surely you don't believe what you said, that no one is getting healed. Only someone who doesn't believe in healing period would say something like that and you are no cessationist are you?

 

[Guojing]

Is it God's will for all believers to be healthy?

God's will regarding this question today can be found in Paul's epistles (Romans 8:18-25, 2 Corinthians 4:16-18).

Have you realized that, when it comes to healing promises that Word of Faith churches tend to use in scripture, they never come from Paul's epistles?

 

[Guojing]

Even the Psalmist saw the connection between forgiveness and healing

Psalm 103:
103 Bless the Lord, O my soul;
And all that is within me, bless His holy name!
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul,
And forget not all His benefits:
3 Who forgives all your iniquities,
Who heals all your diseases,
4 Who redeems your life from destruction,
Who crowns you with lovingkindness and tender mercies,
5 Who satisfies your mouth with good things,
So that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.

Are you willing to consider that this particular passage is a prophecy about life in the millennium kingdom for Israel, after Jesus's 2nd coming for them?

When Jesus finally usher Israel into that kingdom, no one in Zion will say they are sick (Isaiah 33:24)

Under that promised kingdom to Israel, forgiveness of sins comes hand in hand with healing of all their diseases. (1 Peter 1:9, Isaiah 33:24, Psalms 103:3).

 

[Always in His Presence]

Are you willing to consider that this particular passage is a prophecy about life in the millennium kingdom for Israel, after Jesus's 2nd coming for them?

No

 

[ARBITER01]

So, if the gifts of healing are active in the church as the Scripture says, then a person being prayed for healing and they believed that God will heal them, they should be healed.

When did Jesus began healing people? When He was given His ministry. When did He receive His ministry? After He was anointed by The Father and The Holy Spirit was resting upon Him in power.

The gifts of healings is a power gift that can only be operated by The Holy Spirit. We don't have a personal use of it like we do with tongues. So no, you won't see that gift operating in any church if there is no person with a ministry specifically for it there.

People can worship GOD till the cows come home hoping that The Holy Spirit will somehow arrive and heal everyone there, and He won't. The Father operates through a person just like He did through Jesus. It is The Holy Spirit that operates the gifts of healings, not us. And if He is not resting upon us in power, nothing happens, the gift will not operate.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You have yet to respond to my showing very plainly Jesus doing exactly that - why is that.

Jesus did for sure, but then He was God and man, and He and the Holy Spirit did those works together. He had the Holy Spirit without measure, because He as the Son of God had the same essence as the Holy Spirit, This is why, as God, He could easily heal all those who came to him, while we as merely human cannot.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

sounds like you do not believe the Charisms are active in the body today.

If so - you are in the wrong forum.

If you do believe they are still active then your argument is moot

I believe that the gifts of the Spirit are active in the church today. They never ceased by any decree of God. It was the church itself that caused them to cease, by becoming apostate. The Pentecostal revival made it possible for some areas of the church to have them restored, but there are still large areas of the church that are falling short of the standard required for the Holy Spirit to move freely.

I firmly believe that the gifts of healing are present in today's church, and according to James they are in the hands of church elders who are called upon to pray for the sick. But the prosperity word faith so called healing ministries with their false teaching and promises have muddied the waters so much that the faith of many has been damaged, and the Holy Spirit has been grieved. Also another hindrance is our denominational divisions. The Holy Spirit is not going to favour one faction over another. If He did, that faction would be consumed with pride, thinking they are closer to God than all the others. As we see from Paul's teaching, splitting up into factions is a sign of carnality, and ability to be as spiritual children, fed by the milk of the word, rather than the strong food that is used by mature believers.

In actual fact, the Corinthian church with all its faults, was light years ahead in its walk in the Spirit than most of our churches, including Pentecostal and Charismatic today. So what is actually stopping people from being healed? The carnality of the church with its factions, worldliness, false teaching, formalism, ritual and ceremony.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

sounds like you do not believe the Charisms are active in the body today.

If so - you are in the wrong forum.

If you do believe they are still active then your argument is moot

It was just a matter of time before someone decided to attack my personal credibility and accuse me of being cessationist.

 

[Guojing]

So what is actually stopping people from being healed? The carnality of the church with its factions, worldliness, false teaching, formalism, ritual and ceremony.

But you won't say the same regarding salvation correct?

Even if there is those carnality as you described happening in churches, unbelievers believing the gospel are still going to get saved.

So why is healing different, if healing is also part of the atonement at the cross?