Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

[Guojing]

John 3:16 is quite clear: "God so loved the world that He sent His only Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but will have eternal life.

Of course, the definition of "believe" here is putting one's full trust in and dependence on Christ. Not just a mental agreement that Christ exists and is the Son of God.

So because of that, whether the church is carnal or not cannot stop an unbeliever from getting saved when he believes.

But a believer who is trying to get God to heal him or her, its more difficult because not only must he believe, if the church is carnal, he cannot be healed, even if he believes.

The conclusion: Getting saved is easier than getting healed.

Is that what you are trying to say?

 

[Bobber]

Out of curiosity, will you say that to someone like Nick Vujicic?

First I didn't know who Nick was until I googled it....then I remembered OK yeah I know of Nick the man with no legs or arms. I've seen some videos of Nick before and let me say what a great inspiration he is in being bound determined of being one who is going to be a positive person and optimistic. When one sees his attitude it causes people to put into perspective their problems.....look if Nick can not let anything get him down then why not I over my smaller problems. Nick is a real fighter and he's a star in my books.

But you're asking me would I tell Nick a working of miracles could take place if we all believed, because his condition isn't really healing. There's nothing there to heal but an absolute working of miracle could take place if we believed, and if he did as well. Yes I would. If God can split the Red Sea, pull down the walls of Jericho, raise the dead who have been even dead for three days (Lazarus) and if Jesus said which he did, "All things are possible to him that believeth" no I won't back down from what Jesus actually taught. Now if even I took the position something's not possible.....well....I'm right.....it's not for me. But it doesn't mean it's not possible. (much more can be said but that's enough for this post)

 

[Always in His Presence]

Please explain why Paul and Timothy were suffering from infirmities.

Galatians 4:13
King James Version
13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

1 Timothy 5:23
King James Version
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Do you honestly think Timothy spent the rest of his life with stomach issues, or did the little bit of wine solve the problem?

Paul’s wasn’t sick. He lists his infirmities

2 Cor 11:
23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, inperils of my own countrymen, inperils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, inperils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?

30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity.

Not one of Paul’s infirmities was sickness.

Know your Bible.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

John 3:16 is quite clear: "God so loved the world that He sent His only Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but will have eternal life.

Of course, the definition of "believe" here is putting one's full trust in and dependence on Christ. Not just a mental agreement that Christ exists and is the Son of God.

Consider that the word before "believe" is not "in," rather it is "into."
Those who believe into Christ have eternal life or "are born again."
The topic of this passage is the new birth. Jesus is talking about believing into Christ and receiving eternal life that never perishes.
The topic is baptism into Christ. We believe into His death, burial, and resurrection. It is not merely a mental/emotional assenting to Who he is. Though that is certainly important.

 

[mourningdove~]

I believe that the answer is to ditch the man-made structures and organisation, stop spending thousand of dollars on maintaining buildings and programmes, and get right back to where the disciples were at the beginning of Acts when they were in the upper room waiting on God for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. They didn't try to set up a "Christian" club, or have organised ritualistic, ceremonial services. All they did was to wait on God in prayer in obedience to what Jesus told them, "Wait in Jerusalem until you are empowered from on high". So they waited for as long as it took, and finally, the Holy Spirit came, and the rest is history.

I believe that the church in general has become so corrupted by fables, traditions, humanist thinking, ritual and ceremony, factions, etc., that the only answer is to ditch the lot, sell the church buildings to community groups, and to gather in private homes to just wait on God for a general "reboot" of the Christian faith, based on the sound doctrine of the Gospel.

What this will mean is a sharp division between the religious who want to continue as they are, and the true believers who want to restart with prayer and waiting on God for what He wants to do with them. What will result is an "official" apostate church, and an "underground" true fellowship of believers who are fully committed to Christ. In that fellowship, we will see a powerful re-emerging of the supernatural gifts, because those fellowships will be where God wants them to be, uncorrupted by the world, humanism and false religion.

I think perhaps we may not be far from seeing this happen.

There has always been religious persecution, but it is now spreading to other places ... like America.
With growing persecution, I expect the true church will be forced out of the buildings, and into homes and other less obvious places.
And when that happens, I do believe we will begin to see more healings and miracles ...

 

[Bobber]

Not one of Paul’s infirmities was sickness.

I don't believe they were either based on the thorn in the flesh.

You know others here always like to bring up someone Paul left sick. I really don't understand this. So what? Talking about the condition someone is in doesn't mean anything in regard to what really and truly belongs to them in Christ. One can't use people experience as a doctrine....all it is, is what someone experienced. Doesn't mean it had to be that way and stay that way.

In 1 Cor 11:25 it states Paul saying why many are weak and sickly among the church. It doesn't say it's the only reason he lays out, other bible verses can bring out other potential reasons. But Paul stated one place many are sick and weakly and have died not discerning the Lord's body. (not again the only reason but for MANY according to Paul) So a John Doe is left in a certain city and wasn't healed. So some say see there! Could not have been God's will! No right to even make such a statement. We don't know anything about the person.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So because of that, whether the church is carnal or not cannot stop an unbeliever from getting saved when he believes.

But a believer who is trying to get God to heal him or her, its more difficult because not only must he believe, if the church is carnal, he cannot be healed, even if he believes.

The conclusion: Getting saved is easier than getting healed.

Is that what you are trying to say?

You keep repeating the same question, which I have answered. There is nothing more I can say about that.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think perhaps we may not be far from seeing this happen.

There has always been religious persecution, but it is now spreading to other places ... like America.
With growing persecution, I expect the true church will be forced out of the buildings, and into homes and other less obvious places.
And when that happens, I do believe we will begin to see more healings and miracles ...

I just read in this morning's newspaper that the Anglican Church in England is in deep trouble with hundreds of the country's parishes disappearing through lack of members. It has been forecast that if the trend continues, the Anglican Church will largely disappear as a local church throughout England. Some have said that because the Anglican Church is so integral to English culture, that without it, there will be no more England as we know it. I know of one believer who travelled to England and found it almost impossible to find a church that preached the Gospel. He described the spiritual situation in England as "dead as a doornail:.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I think perhaps we may not be far from seeing this happen.

There has always been religious persecution, but it is now spreading to other places ... like America.
With growing persecution, I expect the true church will be forced out of the buildings, and into homes and other less obvious places.
And when that happens, I do believe we will begin to see more healings and miracles ...

I think you are quite right on this. You can already see this happening in America. They (the powers that be) are testing the limits, pushing the envelope just a little bit further with every passing day. The Lord did say that He would prepare His bride for His return, so it shouldn't be totally unexpected. I pray that if I'm around to see it, that I have the faith to endure.

 

[Guojing]

But you're asking me would I tell Nick a working of miracles could take place if we all believed, because his condition isn't really healing. There's nothing there to heal but an absolute working of miracle could take place if we believed, and if he did as well. Yes I would. If God can split the Red Sea, pull down the walls of Jericho, raise the dead who have been even dead for three days (Lazarus) and if Jesus said which he did, "All things are possible to him that believeth" no I won't back down from what Jesus actually taught. Now if even I took the position something's not possible.....well....I'm right.....it's not for me. But it doesn't mean it's not possible. (much more can be said but that's enough for this post)

So you believe the reason Nick remains like that, is because he did not have faith enough to be healed by God.

Alright then.

 

[Bobber]

So you believe the reason Nick remains like that, is because he did not have faith enough to be healed by God.

Alright then.

Alright then what? First it's not my place to tell someone exactly WHY they're not healed. That's between them and God. I won't back down from teaching what the Bible says though and it does give reasons. No I don't take one of a number of reasons and beat them over the head and say this applies to you. We must however teach what God's word says.

Here's the thing though with this present generation. You're not even allowed to even teach that there are reasons. You're to keep quite about that and NEVER, NEVER, NEVER even suggest that ones' should do a check list of things themselves with the word of God. Nope don't ever dare to talk about 1 Cor 11:30 which says why many could be sick and weak and die among you. Nope DON'T EVER teach that.

And don't EVER teach let one ask in faith nothing wavering and if one wavers they shall not receive anything from the Lord. James 1. Nope don't you ever teach that either. Don't ever teach either that the disciples prayed for someone to be delivered and they weren't and Jesus told them the reason why.....they're doubt and unbelief. Matt 17:19 Nope you cannot, CANNOT even suggest that can be a reason today. If you do we're going to claim you're and arrogant and insensitive not realizing their doctrine of passivity is really a false sense of humility.

 

[mourningdove~]

I think you are quite right on this. You can already see this happening in America. They (the powers that be) are testing the limits, pushing the envelope just a little bit further with every passing day. The Lord did say that He would prepare His bride for His return, so it shouldn't be totally unexpected. I pray that if I'm around to see it, that I have the faith to endure.

I pray to have the faith, also ...

 

[Guojing]

Alright then what? First it's not my place to tell someone exactly WHY they're not healed.

But you previously stated that, for Nick, "There's nothing there to heal but an absolute working of miracle could take place if we believed, and if he did as well. Yes I would.

Isn't that telling Nick "exactly WHY they're not healed."?

 

[Bobber]

But you previously stated that, for Nick, "There's nothing there to heal but an absolute working of miracle could take place if we believed, and if he did as well. Yes I would.

All I'm saying is I would tell anyone and everyone including myself that all things are possible to the one which believes. And who said that? Some weird presumptuous faith preacher? No Jesus Christ. Mark 9:23 So where do we go from here. Nobody is allowed to tell people what Jesus actually said for fear they'll be looked upon as not a nice person?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it. Scripture seems to support and promote that God heals us from all sickness and conditions.

Psalm 103:3 He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases,

Matthew 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

But most all of us have experienced times when we ask for and seek healing and it does not come. Now, a caveat to this discussion is I'm asking you not to use "It's God's Will" as a response to this. Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

An example of a man of God not receiving healing was Elisha, he died sick, but still full of the presence of God.

2Ki 13:14 Elisha had become sick with the illness of which he would die...2Ki 13:20-21 Then Elisha died, and they buried him. And the raiding bands from Moab invaded the land in the spring of the year. So it was, as they were burying a man, that suddenly they spied a band of raiders; and they put the man in the tomb of Elisha; and when the man was let down and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived and stood on his feet.

This shows us that Christians can get sick and die. Yet we also see in Jesus' words that if we have faith we can receive even mountains moved, sickness is smaller than a mountain. Whenever I am sick I quote these scriptures.

Mat 17:20 So Jesus said to them, "Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.

Mat 21:21 So Jesus answered and said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' it will be done.

I believe in trusting God for healing until there is no room left for it.

 

[lanceleo]

Do you honestly think Timothy spent the rest of his life with stomach issues, or did the little bit of wine solve the problem?

Are you very certain that Timothy was healed at some point of his life or the wine did not solve the problem? The bible did not say anything about it and what you mentioned is only your conjecture at best.

Know your bible and don't add anything to it.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Are you very certain that Timothy was healed at some point of his life or the wine did not solve the problem? The bible did not say anything about it and what you mentioned is only your conjecture at best.

Know your bible and don't add anything to it.

As is your conjecture that he was not - you should follow your own advice upon giving it.

I am certain Paul was not sick - He listed his infirmities and not one was sickness.

 

[Guojing]

I am certain Paul was not sick - He listed his infirmities and not one was sickness.

So in this case, scripture is silent and it made you certain that "Paul was not sick"?

Strange, you did not follow your own advice of staying silent when scripture is silent, unlike our Acts 8 discussion about Phillip and Simon the sorcerer.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So in this case, scripture is silent and it made you certain that "Paul was not sick"?

Strange, you did not follow your own advice of staying silent when scripture is silent, unlike our Acts 8 discussion about Phillip and Simon the sorcerer.

Scripture was not silent about his infirmities.

 

[Guojing]

Scripture was not silent about his infirmities.

Did you even read his post?

not one was sickness.