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This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.
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This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.No, I said that we should be able to see the truth of the Bible IN our experience.
Jesus is alive. How do we know? We have met with him and asked him into our lives.
Jesus still gives eternal life. How do we know? He has saved us and is saving others.
The Bible is not a academic textbook. How do we know? God speaks to us through it today.
The Holy Spirit is real. How do we know? We can receive him and know his presence and guidance.
The gifts or the Spirit are real and present today. How do we know? We can receive/have received them.
Our experience should confirm Scripture.
"You ask me how I know he lives; he lives within my heart."
If a Christian teaches that the Bible says that Jesus ALWAYS heals in response to prayer, and someone were to say "well what about .....? They believe, and they're in a wheelchair."
What is the answer?
The Christian is not going to say that the Bible is wrong.
It is highly unlikely they will say that their understanding/interpretation is incorrect.
I have been told by a few folks - mainly on here - that the problem is that I did not have enough faith. In other words, it was my fault. Such Good News - not.
There we go. It's OUR fault - the sufferers fault - for their lack of belief.
But in any case, Jesus did not promise physical healing to all believers.
Who says God isn't moving?
Not at all.
I've said it before; I was told several times on here that Jesus promised healing to all. But I could not expect to see healing, from M.E, for myself, because I did not believe - meaning, I didn't accept that doctrine.
Guess what? I still don't believe it, yet God healed me of M.E. 13 years ago.
I saw God moving in my life and healing - not because of any faith/lack of faith of my own; but because he is gracious, loving, faithful. I have seen him moving in my life since I became a Christian - and even more so since my healing.
My faith may not be as strong as it could be, but I would never blame God if I was showing a lack of faith. It is God who has been with me all the way; loving me in sickness and in health, in my doubts and in my certainties, in my knowledge and in the times that I have proved to be wrong or have misunderstood.
It means that the man through whom the Lord did many miracles had in this case to leave behind a sick colleague still sick.
'I left Trophimus sick in Miletus'
This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.
It speaks directly to physical healing - and makes another connection between forgiveness of sins and healing of the body.
Told not yet by who??? Unless God has changed, it has never happened in the whole of the New Testament - when did His will change?
Trust God for what?
I personally cannot judge the Word of God by human experiences.
Are all healed? Obviously no,
Are all saved? obviously no,
I cannot look into the Word of God and judge His word by human experience - if I did I would say things that are just not scriptural.
For what it is worth - healing has been a mainstay of my ministry for more than three decades. I spent a number of years as an instructor in a healing school where were 71 of 100 people who were diagnosed terminal were completely healed - doctor confirmed -
I weep for the loss of the 29 - but rejoice over the 71.
If you look at the times in Scripture where people were not healed, not one time had to do with the will of God, nor His purpose for their lives. Not one time was someone turned away or told 'not yet', but every single one received what they asked for. Every single one.
That my friend is the difference in what you and I believe.
This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.
It seems to me that the difference between what you and I believe - in a nutshell - is:
You say that if Christians aren't healed when they ask for it, it's their own fault for not having enough faith.
However you would like to view it - it does not change God's outlook, nor His will.
Matt 8:When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. 2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”Is God a respecter of persons? Does His will change from person to person?
3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
I say that if a Christian isn't healed when they pray for healing; ask God what he is saying to them IN that and what can they learn from it?
Because Jesus healed someone it is God's will to heal everyone everywhere, instantly whenever they or you wish it, regardless of any other consideration?
Yes or no - does God's will change depending on the person?
This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.
Same ending that has happened for years here on CF and other sites.This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.
True, but once upon a time, here, it continued to devolve ad infinitum, until people actually left the site for all of he strife. We seem to be doing better.Same ending that has happened for years here on CF and other sites.
I will discuss it just so far. Those with ears will hear...
In short to answer the question in the subject line, no.Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it. Scripture seems to support and promote that God heals us from all sickness and conditions.
Psalm 103:3 He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases,
Matthew 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.
But most all of us have experienced times when we ask for and seek healing and it does not come. Now, a caveat to this discussion is I'm asking you not to use "It's God's Will" as a response to this. Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?
Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?
What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?
The same one who said we are grafted into the vine and there is no difference between Jew and Greek.
However you would like to view it - it does not change God's outlook, nor His will.
Matt 8:When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. 2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”Is God a respecter of persons? Does His will change from person to person?
3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
But there is a difference between Abraham and the rest of us correct?
Otherwise, you have to accept that anyone can claim Genesis 15:5 for themselves too.
Notice he has given you a scriptural example of Paul
And you still prefer to take the events in the 4 gospels to form your doctrine?
- healing at will with handkerchiefs in the Acts period,
- to having to leave his co-worker sick after the Acts period.
Admit it, you will not change your mind no matter what scripture evidence people present.
Gen 15:5 is a promise to Abram - read your scripture -
Yes, we are a descendent of Abraham through adoption.
So, no, because of Jesus' Atonement there is no difference .
Thanks for asking.
So, because Genesis 15:5 is a promise specifically to Abram, no one else can claim it.
Likewise, I am trying to show you that even though there is no difference between Jews and Greeks in the Body of Christ, that does not mean that we can claim promises specifically to the nation of Israel.
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