Are different Sabbaths true?

[sparow]

Brother, the message in Hebrews about the "day" of rest tells us that being 12 hours late prevents you from entering the "day" of rest. God, by "oath", prevented those "whose corpses lay in the wilderness" from entering the "day" of rest as punishment for 40 years by causing them to keep the wrong Sabbath near the Promised Land. The seventh day after the Sabbath, late by 12 hours from morning to morning, prevented them, with Manna, from entering the "day" of rest near the Promised Land. The "day" of rest is entered in the Promised Land, as Jesus kept it from evening to evening before the seventh day, from morning to morning, that Joshua kept with Manna in the desert, preventing Joshua from entering the day of rest for 40 years in the desert. Joshua did not benefit from God's punishment for 40 years because he wrongly assumed the Sabbath in the Promised Land was the seventh day when God had taught for 40 years that the seventh day does not enter the "day" of rest known as the Sabbath in the Promised Land.

So God’s rest (day) is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news (how to enter the "day" of rest) failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest (day), and that time is today (don't harden your heart). God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest (day), God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest (day) still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest (day) have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest (day). But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall (weak faith that cannot survive difficulties). (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Resting from what? It is not my desire to defend Paul but. Paul is having a debate and you are quoting him out of the context of that debate and there is no way we can what that context was. Paul was a Rabbi and the way Rabbis taught their apprentice was by debate; they would debate a point for days or weeks and when they reached agreement they would move onto the next lesson.

You could debate Paul and provide you own context, but first you would need to understand what Paul has said, and this appears to not be the case. Also you put words in Paul's mouth; Paul did not say "day of rest" or "rest day"; "Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another rest (time)." Paul seems to be blaming Joshua for Israels failure.

The rest that is in Christ has nothing to do with a day, it is rest from sin and it's consequences. Joshua could not provide that rest from sin, he was not God, but God was there, in the box in the tent, but Israel would not enter in, now it is offered again.

 

[guevaraj]

Paul did not say "day of rest" or "rest day"; "Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another rest (time)."

Brother, we know that the rest refers to the Sabbath "day" from this paragraph where it says: "this rest has been ready since he made the world" and that this "good news, that God has prepared this rest, has been announced to us just as it was to them", being them "whose corpses lay in the wilderness".

God’s promise of entering his rest (day) still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news (not the gospel of Jesus before David)—that God has prepared this rest (day)—has been announced to us (in the new covenant) just as it was to them (in the desert). But it did them (Joshua) no good because they (Joshua) didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can (if we do not harden our hearts against the day of rest known as the Sabbath) enter his rest (day). As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath (40 years): ‘They will never enter my rest (day),’” even though this rest (day) has been ready since he made the world (God's rest on the seventh day of creation). We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my rest (day).” (Hebrews 4:1-5 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

The rest that is in Christ has nothing to do with a day, it is rest from sin and it's consequences.

Brother, happy Sabbath! The only "rest from sin" for the human family is to grow up in obedience to the commandments as Jesus tells us in the following passage. This growth was made faster through the daily cycle of forgiveness from Jesus as our High Priest than by animal sacrifices. Jesus frees us from the slavery of sin by separating sin from our character through the new birth of learning our way anew thanks to a cycle of forgiveness that is now done faster with Jesus as our High Priest in the heavenly temple than the slower animal sacrifices in the earthly temple "copy" before Jesus. What He started with Israel with the Ten Commandments is what He continues with the faster cycle of forgiveness from Jesus as our High Priest, as Jesus tells us in the following passage. This faster cycle of forgiveness allows us to "surpass" His previous Ten Commandments by Jesus adding an Eleventh Commandment. In fact, since Jesus obeyed the Ten Commandments and we are to "follow" His example in the Eleventh Commandment, all of the previous commandments are included in the Eleventh Commandment. Jesus' new commandment surpasses His previous commandments in the new covenant with an additional commandment that was not possible before Jesus: to "follow" His example.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[sparow]

Brother, happy Sabbath! The only "rest from sin" for the human family is to grow up in obedience to the commandments as Jesus tells us in the following passage. This growth was made faster through the daily cycle of forgiveness from Jesus as our High Priest than by animal sacrifices. Jesus frees us from the slavery of sin by separating sin from our character through the new birth of learning our way anew thanks to a cycle of forgiveness that is now done faster with Jesus as our High Priest in the heavenly temple than the slower animal sacrifices in the earthly temple "copy" before Jesus. What He started with Israel with the Ten Commandments is what He continues with the faster cycle of forgiveness from Jesus as our High Priest, as Jesus tells us in the following passage. This faster cycle of forgiveness allows us to "surpass" His previous Ten Commandments by Jesus adding an Eleventh Commandment. In fact, since Jesus obeyed the Ten Commandments and we are to "follow" His example in the Eleventh Commandment, all of the previous commandments are included in the Eleventh Commandment. Jesus' new commandment surpasses His previous commandments in the new covenant with an additional commandment that was not possible before Jesus: to "follow" His example.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[sparow]

Brother, happy Sabbath! The only "rest from sin" for the human family is to grow up in obedience to the commandments as Jesus tells us in the following passage. This growth was made faster through the daily cycle of forgiveness from Jesus as our High Priest than by animal sacrifices. Jesus frees us from the slavery of sin by separating sin from our character through the new birth of learning our way anew thanks to a cycle of forgiveness that is now done faster with Jesus as our High Priest in the heavenly temple than the slower animal sacrifices in the earthly temple "copy" before Jesus. What He started with Israel with the Ten Commandments is what He continues with the faster cycle of forgiveness from Jesus as our High Priest, as Jesus tells us in the following passage. This faster cycle of forgiveness allows us to "surpass" His previous Ten Commandments by Jesus adding an Eleventh Commandment. In fact, since Jesus obeyed the Ten Commandments and we are to "follow" His example in the Eleventh Commandment, all of the previous commandments are included in the Eleventh Commandment. Jesus' new commandment surpasses His previous commandments in the new covenant with an additional commandment that was not possible before Jesus: to "follow" His example.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

There seems to be something wrong with the verses you quoted; Jesus denies being God. Besides there is always sublime meaning below the surface, something the literalists miss. Matt 19: 16-26 is a better reference.

 

[guevaraj]

There seems to be something wrong with the verses you quoted; Jesus denies being God. Besides there is always sublime meaning below the surface, something the literalists miss.

Brother, happy Sabbath! Jesus wanted to know if this person could recognize Him as God based on His good character. Most Jews rejected Jesus as God! That is why He was sentenced to death, because most did not believe in His claim to be the son of God, which they understood as a claim to be equal to God.

Then Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and declared, “It was necessary that we first preach the word of God to you Jews. But since you have rejected it and judged yourselves unworthy of eternal life, we will offer it to the Gentiles. For the Lord gave us this command when he said, ‘I have made you a light to the Gentiles, to bring salvation to the farthest corners of the earth.’” When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message; and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers. So the Lord’s message spread throughout that region. (Acts 13:46-49 NLT)​

Matt 19: 16-26 is a better reference.

That reference makes it clear that obeying the Ten Commandments is Jesus' answer to the question "what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" If he wanted to "surpass" the Ten Commandments, the Eleventh Commandment to "follow" Jesus' example is clarified here to fall into the previous Ten Commandments as the new Eleventh Commandment added in the new covenant.

Someone came to Jesus with this question: “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” “Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man asked. And Jesus replied: “‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself.’” “I’ve obeyed all these commandments,” the young man replied. “What else must I do?” Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:16-21 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[sparow]

Brother, happy Sabbath! Jesus wanted to know if this person could recognize Him as God based on His good character. Most Jews rejected Jesus as God! That is why He was sentenced to death, because most did not believe in His claim to be the son of God, which they understood as a claim to be equal to God.

Then Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and declared, “It was necessary that we first preach the word of God to you Jews. But since you have rejected it and judged yourselves unworthy of eternal life, we will offer it to the Gentiles. For the Lord gave us this command when he said, ‘I have made you a light to the Gentiles, to bring salvation to the farthest corners of the earth.’” When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message; and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers. So the Lord’s message spread throughout that region. (Acts 13:46-49 NLT)​

That reference makes it clear that obeying the Ten Commandments is Jesus' answer to the question "what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" If he wanted to "surpass" the Ten Commandments, the Eleventh Commandment to "follow" Jesus' example is clarified here to fall into the previous Ten Commandments as the new Eleventh Commandment added in the new covenant.

Someone came to Jesus with this question: “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” “Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man asked. And Jesus replied: “‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself.’” “I’ve obeyed all these commandments,” the young man replied. “What else must I do?” Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:16-21 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I am not overly impressed by the interpretation/translation you quote; it seems to muddy the water. I am too old now to be too clinical, but I remember my understanding of these verses 35 years ago; salvation or eternal life requires that the commandments be kept; While keeping them is profitable, according to Solomon, but salvation or eternal life requires more, it requires a commitment, a contract or covenant, in this place a blood covenant, it requires an "entering in".

Because the parable labeled the young man RICH , having his barns full while his neighbor staved, he young man was not keeping the second great commandment, and lacked understanding that.

 

[guevaraj]

Because the parable labeled the young man RICH , having his barns full while his neighbor staved, he young man was not keeping the second great commandment, and lacked understanding that.

Brother, giving "everything I have to the poor" is not an act of love in the following passage and all the commandments tell us how to love, disqualifying it as the "one thing you haven't done". The "one thing you haven't done" is the newly known additional Eleventh Commandment of the new covenant, to "follow" the example of Jesus, which was not possible before Jesus.

If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3 NLT)​

Giving "everything I have to the poor" above is not an act of love for it to qualify as the additional new Eleventh Commandment in the passage below, where the known new Eleventh Commandment is to "follow" the example of Jesus.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

(I'm responding to #189 here
Did Jesus give us an Eleventh Commandment?
over on this thread. I think it fits the topic better.)

Brother, may the Lord bless you and keep you every day!

I'm not sure which post of mine you're thinking of where I talked about the need for a dateline being complicated. But it can be difficult to think about if spatial reasoning is challenging. (That has nothing to do with overall intelligence, kind of like being good at music )

Ecclesiastes 1
The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, and hurries to its place where it rises.

But if we accept that the Earth is a sphere and rotates, then the sun isn't actually rising in setting, it just appears to be so.

Arguably, there is really just been one sunset, the first one at creation. Since then, sunset has just been moving around the earth continuously.

In order to have separate days, there has to be a place where the sunset of the previous day becomes the sunset of the next day. The Bible doesn't state where this place is, although I think the approach you have of fixing it to Jerusalem is a reasonable one.

United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

 

[guevaraj]

I'm not sure which post of mine you're thinking of where I talked about the need for a dateline being complicated. But it can be difficult to think about if spatial reasoning is challenging. (That has nothing to do with overall intelligence, kind of like being good at music )

Brother, I believe the passage I was thinking of is the following.

That's fine if no one wants to answer. I asked the question for discussion purposes, I already know the answer: The Bible doesn't say.* Assertions about what day it is where you live are opinions. Peace be with you all! *With the possible exception of what @guevaraj has found. Myself, I find the reasoning difficult to follow.

In the quote above, you mentioned that you found it "difficult" to follow and I wanted to make it easier to follow. The following image shows the cycle of the day that God incorporated into the tradition of Judaism during the 40 years in the desert with Manna without their current awareness that the Sabbath in Jerusalem is half a day before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem. Not correcting the Sabbath tradition since Joshua is a weakness in our armor of faith that will lead to our "fall" if not corrected, as Paul tells us in the following passage.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

If we were to pause the spinning of the Earth to obtain the day of the week from the United States and Korea on a Friday morning in Jerusalem, we get a morning start for the day of the week in Jerusalem and not an evening start. I knew that God during the 40 years in the desert embedded the proper day cycle in the tradition of Judaism with Manna before Joshua shifted their point of view of the day of the week because of the Sabbath in Jerusalem. Once the Jews were spread throughout the globe, God's embedded cycle can be seen throughout the globe that the days begin in the morning and not in the evening as they had supposed due to the Sabbath in Jerusalem.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, I believe the passage I was thinking of is the following.

In the quote above, you mentioned that you found it "difficult" to follow and I wanted to make it easier to follow. The following image shows the cycle of the day that God incorporated into the tradition of Judaism during the 40 years in the desert with Manna without their current awareness that the Sabbath in Jerusalem is half a day before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem. Not correcting the Sabbath tradition since Joshua is a weakness in our armor of faith that will lead to our "fall" if not corrected, as Paul tells us in the following passage.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

If we were to pause the spinning of the Earth to obtain the day of the week from the United States and Korea on a Friday morning in Jerusalem, we get a morning start for the day of the week in Jerusalem and not an evening start. I knew that God during the 40 years in the desert embedded the proper day cycle in the tradition of Judaism with Manna before Joshua shifted their point of view of the day of the week because of the Sabbath in Jerusalem. Once the Jews were spread throughout the globe, God's embedded cycle can be seen throughout the globe that the days begin in the morning and not in the evening as they had supposed due to the Sabbath in Jerusalem.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may the Lord bless you and keep you every day!

Right... The reasoning of why there needs to be a date line isn't complicated imo.

The reasoning that you use to fix the date line to Jerusalem is difficult to follow imo.

For example, the phrase "God incorporated into the tradition of Judaism". If God incorporated it, then it's not really a tradition of Judaism.

United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, may the Lord bless you and keep you every day! Right... The reasoning of why there needs to be a date line isn't complicated imo. The reasoning that you use to fix the date line to Jerusalem is difficult to follow imo.

Brother, I do not fix the dateline to Jerusalem. I use Jerusalem to enter the Sabbath, which is different than setting the dateline. God fixed the dateline opposite Jerusalem as evident in the tradition of Judaism, even though they have misunderstood the definition of a day by God because of the Sabbath in Jerusalem.

For example, the phrase "God incorporated into the tradition of Judaism". If God incorporated it, then it's not really a tradition of Judaism. United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

A tradition is something repeated and not always negative in the Bible, as shown in the following passage. If the tradition comes from God, then it is beneficial to our growth. If it comes from us, then it can contradict God's will and be a hindrance to our growth.

And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us. For you know that you ought to imitate us. We were not idle when we were with you. We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it. We worked hard day and night so we would not be a burden to any of you. We certainly had the right to ask you to feed us, but we wanted to give you an example to follow. Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: “Those unwilling to work will not get to eat.” (2 Thessalonians 3:6-10 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, I do not fix the dateline to Jerusalem. I use Jerusalem to enter the Sabbath, which is different than setting the dateline. God fixed the dateline opposite Jerusalem as evident in the tradition of Judaism, even though they have misunderstood the definition of a day by God because of the Sabbath in Jerusalem.

A tradition is something repeated and not always negative in the Bible, as shown in the following passage. If the tradition comes from God, then it is beneficial to our growth. If it comes from us, then it can contradict God's will and be a hindrance to our growth.

And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us. For you know that you ought to imitate us. We were not idle when we were with you. We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it. We worked hard day and night so we would not be a burden to any of you. We certainly had the right to ask you to feed us, but we wanted to give you an example to follow. Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: “Those unwilling to work will not get to eat.” (2 Thessalonians 3:6-10 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may the Lord bless you and keep you every day!

The date line is fixed to Jerusalem in the sense that one starts with Jerusalem to calculate the position of the garden of Eden, which is then the true date line, if I follow what you're saying.

If a tradition comes from God, then it is confusing to call it a Jewish tradition. "Jewish" there sounds like it is the source of the tradition.

United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, may the Lord bless you and keep you every day! The date line is fixed to Jerusalem in the sense that one starts with Jerusalem to calculate the position of the garden of Eden, which is then the true date line, if I follow what you're saying.

Brother, we start with Jerusalem because the Bible gives us a relationship between Eden and Jerusalem through the Sabbath and we only know where Jerusalem is to find the unknown site of Eden. Starting with Jerusalem does not make Jerusalem the dateline. The dateline is always at Eden, according to the creation account in Genesis.

Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day. So the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in them was completed. On the seventh day God had finished his work of creation, so he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, because it was the day when he rested from all his work of creation. (Genesis 1:31-2:3 NLT)​

If a tradition comes from God, then it is confusing to call it a Jewish tradition. "Jewish" there sounds like it is the source of the tradition. United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

They can not be the source of what they do not understand, it must have come from someone outside of Judaism, God.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20 NIV)​

Also, Jerusalem is used to fix the beginning of the seventh day, which is the day that the Israelites were told to keep holy.

God taught us during the 40 years in the desert with Manna that keeping the seventh day of the week from morning to morning near the Promised Land does not enter the Sabbath by "oath" as punishment "because they disobeyed God". God prevented them from entering the Sabbath by "oath" by forcing them to keep the seventh day with Manna near the Promised Land. They kept the wrong Sabbath for 40 years near the Promised Land. They later entered the Sabbath in the Promised Land from evening to evening, which is before the seventh day of the week in the Promised Land, but Joshua, disregarding the difference, did not give them the Biblical Sabbath, wrongly assuming that the Sabbath in the Promised Land was the seventh day of the week. This wrong human tradition only allows them to enter the Sabbath in Jerusalem and nowhere else.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, we start with Jerusalem because the Bible gives us a relationship between Eden and Jerusalem through the Sabbath and we only know where Jerusalem is to find the unknown site of Eden. Starting with Jerusalem does not make Jerusalem the dateline. The dateline is always at Eden, according to the creation account in Genesis.

Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day. So the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in them was completed. On the seventh day God had finished his work of creation, so he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, because it was the day when he rested from all his work of creation. (Genesis 1:31-2:3 NLT)​

They can not be the source of what they do not understand, it must have come from someone outside of Judaism, God.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20 NIV)​

God taught us during the 40 years in the desert with Manna that keeping the seventh day of the week from morning to morning near the Promised Land does not enter the Sabbath by "oath" as punishment "because they disobeyed God". God prevented them from entering the Sabbath by "oath" by forcing them to keep the seventh day with Manna near the Promised Land. They kept the wrong Sabbath for 40 years near the Promised Land. They later entered the Sabbath in the Promised Land from evening to evening, which is before the seventh day of the week in the Promised Land, but Joshua, disregarding the difference, did not give them the Biblical Sabbath, wrongly assuming that the Sabbath in the Promised Land was the seventh day of the week. This wrong human tradition only allows them to enter the Sabbath in Jerusalem and nowhere else.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may the Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you every day!

...we only know where Jerusalem is to find the unknown site of Eden.

Right, the date line is fixed to Jerusalem because that is the known place, even if the date line itself doesn't run through Jerusalem.

They can not be the source of what they do not understand, it must have come from someone outside of Judaism, God.

Exactly! So it's confusing to call it a Jewish tradition imo.

If the Sabbath is the seventh day of something
(even if that something isn't a week),
and if that day starts at sunset in Jerusalem,
then there is a date line of some kind running through Jerusalem imo.

United in one spirit, one Church!

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, may the Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you every day! Right, the date line is fixed to Jerusalem because that is the known place, even if the date line itself doesn't run through Jerusalem. Exactly! So it's confusing to call it a Jewish tradition imo. If the Sabbath is the seventh day of something (even if that something isn't a week), and if that day starts at sunset in Jerusalem, then there is a date line of some kind running through Jerusalem imo. United in one spirit, one Church!

Brother, happy Sabbath, which ends this Saturday December 10, 2022 at 9:35 am EST! According to the following map, looking down the north pole at sunset on the International Date Line and confirmed by God through the tradition of Judaism embedded for 40 years in the desert with Manna, we find the end of the day on the International Date Line. At sunset opposite Jerusalem we see the tail end of Thursday and the continuation of Friday because Friday already began half a day before at sunrise in Jerusalem.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath, which ends this Saturday December 10, 2022 at 9:35 am EST! According to the following map, looking down the north pole at sunset on the International Date Line and confirmed by God through the tradition of Judaism embedded for 40 years in the desert with Manna, we find the end of the day on the International Date Line. At sunset opposite Jerusalem we see the tail end of Thursday and the continuation of Friday because Friday already began half a day before at sunrise in Jerusalem.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may the Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace.

If the Sabbath is the 7th Day, and if it starts at sunset in Jerusalem, then it seems reasonable to say that there is a dateline of some kind running through Jerusalem.

Does something in that map conflict with one of those things?

United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, may the Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace. If the Sabbath is the 7th Day, and if it starts at sunset in Jerusalem, then it seems reasonable to say that there is a dateline of some kind running through Jerusalem. Does something in that map conflict with one of those things? United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

Brother, the map shows that the Sabbath in Jerusalem is not a day of the week and actually falls in Jerusalem half a day before the seventh day of the week as confirmed in the following passage. God gave instructions to remember the Sabbath in Jerusalem at an earlier time, from evening-to-evening than the seventh day of the week from morning-to-morning, established in Genesis and confirmed below. Every translation has mistakenly assumed that God's "expression": "the first of the Sabbaths" refers to Sunday when referring to Saturday, another way to refer to the seventh day of the creation week we call Saturday.

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, the map shows that the Sabbath in Jerusalem is not a day of the week and actually falls in Jerusalem half a day before the seventh day of the week as confirmed in the following passage. God gave instructions to remember the Sabbath in Jerusalem at an earlier time, from evening-to-evening than the seventh day of the week from morning-to-morning, established in Genesis and confirmed below. Every translation has mistakenly assumed that God's "expression": "the first of the Sabbaths" refers to Sunday when referring to Saturday, another way to refer to the seventh day of the creation week we call Saturday.

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you.

So... not the seventh day of the week, but the seventh day of something else? Or is the Sabbath not the seventh day?

For six years you shall sow your land, and shall gather in its increase, 11 but the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave the animal of the field shall eat. In the same way, you shall deal with your vineyard and with your olive grove. Six days you shall do your work, and on the seventh day you shall rest, that your ox and your donkey may have rest, and the son of your servant, and the alien may be refreshed.
Exodus 23

United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

 

[guevaraj]

not the seventh day of the week, but the seventh day of something else? Or is the Sabbath not the seventh day?

Brother, the Sabbath is the seventh day of creation, which took place at a specific site on the earth we know as Eden. When God established the days at a specific site on the Earth as recorded in Genesis in the following passage, He also established God's Date Line on the Earth, which humans have kept as a tradition established by God from the beginning. God's Date Line is near the International Date Line because the British did not invent the International Date Line but discovered God's Date Line and were able to shift God's Date Line a little to fall opposite Greenwich because hardly anyone lived there to protest the shift from God's Date Line from the beginning. God's Date Line was established in Eden from the first day. In the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning and subsequent days from morning to morning.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge