Are different Sabbaths true?

[SabbathBlessings]

Oh, I thought that was in the last paragraph of my post. Basically, the Jews in the diaspora could be wrong.

That shouldn't be surprising. There's a lot of smart Jewish people, and they spend a lot of time pouring over the law.

But like everyone else, they also get comfortable living where they are. And they use their very smart brains to look for work-arounds and hacks to keep from having to actually change their lives.

Mount Zion, basically Jerusalem, is God's holy mountain. Why any Jewish person would want to live somewhere else is beyond me.

Like it says in the Psalms,
"If I forget you, Jerusalem,
may my right hand forget its skill.

May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth
if I do not remember you,
if I do not consider Jerusalem
my highest joy."

So no one has been keeping Sabbath correctly since the days of Christ? That is nonsense. This teaching is unbiblical and leading people away from God's Sabbath and breaking the commandment, but we are all free to believe whatever we want.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sister, that is addressed by inspiration in Hebrews 3 and 4 over the single meaning of the word "rest" that you say means more than what the message of Hebrews 3 and 4 says it means: God's "rest" on the seventh day of creation. "Another day" refers to a different day than thought for the Sabbath: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the week in Eden.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Nonsense.

 

[guevaraj]

Nonsense.

Sister, the reason why those who died in the desert could not enter God's "rest" during their punishment by "oath" with Manna is that they were keeping the seventh day of the week near the Promised Land, which God tells us, does not enter His "rest" near the Promised Land, where the Sabbath falls from evening to evening before the beginning of the seventh day of the week in the morning. I am not the only one who understands that the days of the week are from morning to morning, as God reminded them with Manna.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

So no one has been keeping Sabbath correctly since the days of Christ? That is nonsense. This teaching is unbiblical and leading people away from God's Sabbath and breaking the commandment, but we are all free to believe whatever we want.

Well, people living in the Holy Land would have been keeping the Sabbath correctly, according to this train of thought.

When you say it is unbiblical, do you mean that it is not mentioned in the Bible, or that it is contrary to the Bible?

I agree that it's not mentioned in the Bible, though if I have to pick, I do think that the weight of the evidence is on a fixed Sabbath as opposed to a movable one.

If you're saying it's contrary to the Bible, which scriptures are you looking at?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well, people living in the Holy Land would have been keeping the Sabbath correctly, according to this train of thought.

When you say it is unbiblical, do you mean that it is not mentioned in the Bible, or that it is contrary to the Bible?

I agree that it's not mentioned in the Bible, though if I have to pick, I do think that the weight of the evidence is on a fixed Sabbath as opposed to a movable one.

If you're saying it's contrary to the Bible, which scriptures are you looking at?

So all other Jews died and know nothing about this except for the ones in the holy land who know nothing about it either, just happen to live in Jerusalem?

The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Why you guys talking talking about a bunch of false teachings here from the OP here that no one believes, accept the OP, none of which any SDA believes even though the OP has an SDA tag? For me the OP has been shown in many other threads already that scripture and many other sources do not support a view that all of Israel including Jesus and the Apostles and the bible did not know what time the Sabbath started. This teaching for me is a little out there in my view. Scripture, Greek and Hebrew and other source materials have already been provided many times to the OP in many other threads on the same topic in disagreement to these teachings, but every time these are ignored and not addressed and the OP simply repeats what has already been addressed over and over without addressing any objections to his teachings. Anyhow my last post here as I do not think it profitable to spend all my time focusing on false teachings

May God bless you all as you seek Jesus through His Word

 

[guevaraj]

Why you guys talking talking about a bunch of false teachings here from the OP here that no one believes, accept the OP, none of which any SDA believes even though the OP has an SDA tag? For me the OP has been shown in many other threads already that scripture and many other sources do not support a view that all of Israel including Jesus and the Apostles and the bible did not know what time the Sabbath started. This teaching for me is a little out there in my view. Scripture, Greek and Hebrew and other source materials have already been provided many times to the OP in many other threads on the same topic in disagreement to these teachings, but every time these are ignored and not addressed and the OP simply repeats what has already been addressed over and over without addressing any objections to his teachings. Anyhow my last post here as I do not think it profitable to spend all my time focusing on false teachings. May God bless you all as you seek Jesus through His Word

Brother, you still have to show how it is possible to have an "evening" before there is light. Before the light, there was "darkness" and not an "evening". Those are different words that are not interchangeable. The "evening" of the first day occurred after first light and falls in the middle of the first day. Making the days of creation from morning till morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Brother, you still have to show how it is possible to have an "evening" before there is light. Before the light, there was "darkness" and not an "evening". Those are different words that are not interchangeable. The "evening" of the first day occurred after first light and falls in the middle of the first day. Making the days of creation from morning till morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I did you ignored it and simply repeat the same response without addressing any of my posts to you. You left out the context from Genesis 1:1-5 showing darkness is before the light. Goodbye George I am getting off this merrygoround

 

[Leaf473]

So all other Jews died and know nothing about this except for the ones in the holy land who know nothing about it either, just happen to live in Jerusalem?

The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

Well, remember that the law requires visiting the temple three times a year. So serious Jews would have lived close by.

So it was not an accident that they lived close to Jerusalem.

Then there is a massive dispersion after the destruction of the second temple in 70 AD. After that time, as I understand it, Judaism became heavily pharisaical, focusing on the traditions of the Rabbis. And it remains so today.

And as I said earlier, they have interesting insights into the law because of their vast body of study. But they're also a stiff-necked and rebellious people, according to the prophets.

 

[guevaraj]

I did you ignored it and simply repeat the same nonsense. You left out the context from Genesis 1:1-5 showing darkness is before the light.

Brother, "darkness" is not an "evening"! Those are different words that are not interchangeable. The word of God reveals that the Earth existed before the creation week. Everything that is before the light is before the creation week, an unspecified time before. All the days of creation end in what God called "night" from "evening" to "morning" because they begin with what God called "day" from "morning" to "evening". The "evening" of the first day occurred after first light and falls in the middle of the first day. Making the days of creation from morning till morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Why you guys talking talking about a bunch of false teachings here from the OP here that no one believes, accept the OP, none of which any SDA believes even though the OP has an SDA tag? For me the OP has been shown in many other threads already that scripture and many other sources do not support a view that all of Israel including Jesus and the Apostles and the bible did not know what time the Sabbath started. This teaching for me is a little out there in my view. Scripture, Greek and Hebrew and other source materials have already been provided many times to the OP in many other threads on the same topic in disagreement to these teachings, but every time these are ignored and not addressed and the OP simply repeats what has already been addressed over and over without addressing any objections to his teachings. Anyhow my last post here as I do not think it profitable to spend all my time focusing on false teachings

May God bless you all as you seek Jesus through His Word

It's fine if you don't want to respond to this, or even read it.

I just wanted to say that most of the posts I've seen on the subject have to do with whether the Sabbath is evening to evening or morning to morning.

For me at this point, that actually seems to be moot, since it's evening to evening in Jerusalem that is the basis of the question.

Does the evening move around, or is it fixed?

That seems to me to be a very valid question. I don't think it's something the scriptures address directly, probably because back then everyone thought the Earth was flat and didn't move. Today we think of the earth as rotating on its access and revolving around the Sun.

I think the preponderance of evidence from the scriptures is on a fixed evening.

 

[Leaf473]

Blessed be the Lord!

Isaiah 66
"Rejoice with Jerusalem, and be glad for her, all of you who love her: rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn over her.

So that you may suck and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that you may drink deeply and be delighted with the abundance of her glory."

 

[guevaraj]

Well, people living in the Holy Land would have been keeping the Sabbath correctly, according to this train of thought. When you say it is unbiblical, do you mean that it is not mentioned in the Bible, or that it is contrary to the Bible? I agree that it's not mentioned in the Bible, though if I have to pick, I do think that the weight of the evidence is on a fixed Sabbath as opposed to a movable one. If you're saying it's contrary to the Bible, which scriptures are you looking at?

So no one has been keeping Sabbath correctly since the days of Christ? That is nonsense. This teaching is unbiblical and leading people away from God's Sabbath and breaking the commandment, but we are all free to believe whatever we want.

I did you ignored it and simply repeat the same response without addressing any of my posts to you. You left out the context from Genesis 1:1-5 showing darkness is before the light. Goodbye George I am getting off this merrygoround

Sister and brothers, happy Sabbath this Friday starting at 10:33am Eastern Standard Time! Perhaps you, sister, can see what LoveGodsWord cannot do as he keeps repeating his "unbiblical" defense. "Darkness" before light does not make an "evening"! To keep the Sabbath tradition since Joshua, "unbiblical" word substitutions are used twice on the first day: before the light and at the end of the first day.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening (ereb) passed and morning (boqer) came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:1-5 NLT)​

1. When God says "darkness" before the light, "evening" is substituted in.
2. When God says "morning" at the end of the first day, "evening" is substituted in.

God ends the first day in a "morning" as "it is written" above. Those who want to keep the tradition, since Joshua, substitute an "evening" when God says that a "morning" and not an "evening" ends the first day. This is a different word than when He tells us the end of the Sabbath in the Promised Land. They believe in the word of God in Leviticus as "it is written" below, but not in Genesis above, when forced is an "evening" when God says that a "morning" ends the first day.

This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown (ereb) on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown (ereb) on the tenth day.” (Leviticus 23:32 NLT)​

Can you clearly see that God used the very word "evening", translated in this verse as sundown, to end the Sabbath in the Promised Land? Unlike the previous passage in Genesis, where God used "morning". In Genesis since Joshua, forced is "morning" to mean "evening", to defend an "unbiblical" human tradition explained in Hebrews 3 and 4. In the passage below, "another day" refers to a different day than thought for the Sabbath: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the week in Eden.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Sister and brothers, happy Sabbath this Friday starting at 10:33am Eastern Standard Time! Perhaps you, sister, can see what LoveGodsWord cannot do as he keeps repeating his "unbiblical" defense. "Darkness" before light does not make an "evening"! To keep the Sabbath tradition since Joshua, "unbiblical" word substitutions are used twice on the first day: before the light and at the end of the first day.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening (ereb) passed and morning (boqer) came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:1-5 NLT)​

1. When God says "darkness" before the light, "evening" is substituted in.
2. When God says "morning" at the end of the first day, "evening" is substituted in.

God ends the first day in a "morning" as "it is written" above. Those who want to keep the tradition, since Joshua, substitute an "evening" when God says that a "morning" and not an "evening" ends the first day. This is a different word than when He tells us the end of the Sabbath in the Promised Land. They believe in the word of God in Leviticus as "it is written" below, but not in Genesis above, when forced is an "evening" when God says that a "morning" ends the first day.

This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown (ereb) on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown (ereb) on the tenth day.” (Leviticus 23:32 NLT)​

Can you clearly see that God used the very word "evening", translated in this verse as sundown, to end the Sabbath in the Promised Land? Unlike the previous passage in Genesis, where God used "morning". In Genesis since Joshua, forced is "morning" to mean "evening", to defend an "unbiblical" human tradition explained in Hebrews 3 and 4. In the passage below, "another day" refers to a different day than thought for the Sabbath: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the week in Eden.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Thank you for the Happy Sabbath wishes.

May the Lord bless you and keep you.
May he make his face shine on you and be gracious to you.
May he turn his face toward you and give you peace.

 

[Leaf473]

Say, @guevaraj, my man,

Do you believe that God rested for 24 hours on that first Sabbath day? And if so, does he rest for 24 hours every seventh day after that?

 

[guevaraj]

Say, @guevaraj, my man, Do you believe that God rested for 24 hours on that first Sabbath day? And if so, does he rest for 24 hours every seventh day after that?

Brother, yes to both questions regarding Jesus as our example! The concept of work is different for God than it is for us. For God, work is tied to whose work you are doing: whether you are working for God or for yourself. This is different from how the Jews understood the word "work". Jesus would have stopped doing carpentry on the 24 hours of the Sabbath, but He healed people on the Sabbath as He did other days. Jesus worked on the Sabbath, although this work is for God and not for himself on the Sabbath.

So the Jewish leaders began harassing Jesus for breaking the Sabbath rules. But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.” (John 5:16-17 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BobRyan]

Say, @guevaraj, my man,

Do you believe that God rested for 24 hours on that first Sabbath day?

I believe the Bible (so I don't add "not really" at the end of each verse).

Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed The Sabbath day and made it holy.

Titus 1:
2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago

 

[Leaf473]

I believe the Bible (so I don't add "not really" at the end of each verse).

Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed The Sabbath day and made it holy.

Titus 1:
2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago

The reason I'm asking is because virtually everyone believes that God is all around the world. When the Sun is setting in one place on Earth, it hasn't set yet in another place.

So in your view, was God resting in one place and still working in another? Or did God rest for a distinct 24-hour period all around the world? That would mean that he started resting even though it was still high noon in another place.

 

[sparow]

Brother, yes to both questions regarding Jesus as our example! The concept of work is different for God than it is for us. For God, work is tied to whose work you are doing: whether you are working for God or for yourself. This is different from how the Jews understood the word "work". Jesus would have stopped doing carpentry on the 24 hours of the Sabbath, but He healed people on the Sabbath as He did other days. Jesus worked on the Sabbath, although this work is for God and not for himself on the Sabbath.

So the Jewish leaders began harassing Jesus for breaking the Sabbath rules. But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.” (John 5:16-17 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So there for those who take the scriptures literally will always be wrong.

Eden means pleasure or delight; if the Sabbath is not a delight then it is not kept, regardless of the day.

Similarly, the Hebrew word for work is misunderstood or not taken into account. It could mean, do not do any business. If we think of James who said, "Faith with out works is dead." What works, keeping the commandments of course. The Sabbath is only the Sabbath when all the Law is accommodated. Does anyone believe keeping the commandments violate the day; cause it to be unholy.

 

[guevaraj]

The Sabbath is only the Sabbath when all the Law is accommodated. Does anyone believe keeping the commandments violate the day; cause it to be unholy.

Brother, the message in Hebrews about the "day" of rest tells us that being 12 hours late prevents you from entering the "day" of rest. God, by "oath", prevented those "whose corpses lay in the wilderness" from entering the "day" of rest as punishment for 40 years by causing them to keep the wrong Sabbath near the Promised Land. The seventh day after the Sabbath, late by 12 hours from morning to morning, prevented them, with Manna, from entering the "day" of rest near the Promised Land. The "day" of rest is entered in the Promised Land, as Jesus kept it from evening to evening before the seventh day, from morning to morning, that Joshua kept with Manna in the desert, preventing Joshua from entering the day of rest for 40 years in the desert. Joshua did not benefit from God's punishment for 40 years because he wrongly assumed the Sabbath in the Promised Land was the seventh day when God had taught for 40 years that the seventh day does not enter the "day" of rest known as the Sabbath in the Promised Land.

So God’s rest (day) is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news (how to enter the "day" of rest) failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest (day), and that time is today (don't harden your heart). God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest (day), God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest (day) still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest (day) have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest (day). But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall (weak faith that cannot survive difficulties). (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge