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Featured Anytime Rapture View versus the rest.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Anytime Rapture View is the rapture view I hold. The term was adapted by me ,taken from Luke 21:34-36, which contains the word "anytime".

    The Anytime Rapture View is that the resurrection/rapture of 1Thessalonians15-18 takes place anytime between now (as you are reading this) and the day the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood in 2Thessalonians2:4.

    The rapture, therefore, could be pre-70th week. Or it may be after the 70th week begins. But it is not after Antichrist makes his move - somewhere in the middle part of the 7 years. We can't fix an exact day for his move.

    The Anytime Rapture View fits -
    1. Luke 21:34-38, the escape from the Day of the Lord beginning like a thief in the night.
    2. At a time we think not.
    3. The promise to the church of Philadelphia, to be kept from the world-wide time of testing.
    4. Not appointed to wrath; neither the wrath of God, nor the wrath of Satan during the time, times, half time.
    5. allows for the possibility for the church to be here during the first part of the 7 years, when there will be a falling away from Christianity, as the Antichrist (prior to his revealing to be the man of sin act) will be believed by the Jews and the world to be messiah. Yet, them of the church of Philadelphia will not deny Jesus's name.

    ______________________________________________________________________

    The rest:

    Pre-trib
    - is actually a misnomer for pre-70th week. Which it may happen that way, but it is not for certain. Because, the first half of the 7 years, most of it, the world will be saying peace and safety - a indicator of the times and seasons, for the rapture to take place. It will not be tribulation during that "perceived" messianic age.

    The pre-trib rapture mandates that the rapture take place before the confirming of the covenant because in pre-trib thinking that is when the Antichrist is revealed. But that is a misreading of 2Thessalonians2:4. It is not revealing the person as the Antichrist - but the man of sin, which actually ends his time as the Antichrist... the King of Israel, illegitimate....and ends the peace and safety illusion.

    Still, the rapture could happen pre-70th week.

    Pre-wrath
    - pre-wrath brackets the time rapture takes place. To be before the wrath of God (as defined by prewathers) at the end of the great tribulation, when the sun and moon grow dark. But after the church has entered the great tribulation. Which is the major flaw of the pre-wrath view.

    That particular views fails on that peace and safety will not be the thinking after the great tribulation begins. The seven years begin with the rider on the white horse, the Antichrist, made the King of Israel, illegitimate. Peace and safety will be the thinking during that time, the early years of the 70th week.

    But once he makes his move to claim to have achieved God-hood, that triggers the Day of the Lord beginning. End of peace and safety.

    And in the second seal, peace is taken from the earth. So the world is not saying peace and safety during the great tribulation as proponents to the Pre-wrath view, like Robert Van Kampen, claim. You Tube video - The Biblical Defense for the Prewrath Rapture of the Church 1 of 3 Robert Van Kampen

    Post-Trib - mandates that the church go through the great tribulation, to be raptured at Jesus's Return.

    This view is untenable because it exposes the church to the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan. And fails on the Luke 21:34-36 escape of that time.

    Also them in Jerusalem, Jews, at the end of the great tribulation will have become Christians - are not raptured, but escape through a valley created by Jesus when he splits the Mt. of Olives in half.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
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  2. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Your ignoring the relevant context of Luke 21:27, which places the escape as the Day of the Lord. That Day occurs at the end, at His return, and so then is the escape at the end of the age at His return. A post trib rapture fits fine here.

    24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    25 And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows; 26 men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

    27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

    28 But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your heads; because your redemption draweth nigh.

    29 And he spake to them a parable: Behold the fig tree, and all the trees: 30 when they now shoot forth, ye see it and know of your own selves that the summer is now nigh.

    31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.

    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished.

    33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

    34 But take heed to yourselves, lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day come on you suddenly as a snare: 35 for [so] shall it come upon all them that dwell on the face of all the earth.

    36 But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hi sdowney, no, I am not ignoring those passages leading up to Luke21:34-36. Luke 21:24 is actually about the diaspora that began in the first century.

    Luke 21:25-27 jumps to the end of the 7 years, and the sixth seal. At that time, the world will already have been caught into the great tribulation for over three years.

    Jesus's words in Luke 21:34-36 are what to do before even getting to that stage. The day comes suddenly as a snare - which is the description of the Day of the Lord beginning when the peace and safety is shattered in 1Thessalonians5 - which them saying it at the time - will not escape.

    1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    Luke 21:34-36 is about Christians escaping that day. 1Thessalonians5:1-3 is about them, not Christians, not escaping - the Day of the Lord.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Any time return of Christ, followed by the resurrection, followed by the rapture, followed by the judgement and explosion of the universe (according to Peter) followed by the creation of the New Heavens and earth (according to Peter) is how it plays out in scripture.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Anytime return of Christ?

    Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    Jerusalem has not said that yet.
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So, your ignorance of anyone saying this means none ever said it?
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It means that Jerusalem, the Jews, have not received the gospel of salvation, and Jesus as their King of Israel - yet.

    Many in Jerusalem thought that Jesus was the messiah, until the religious leaders carried out treachery against him.

    John:
    12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

    13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are Israel, not the broken off unbelievers (Romans 11). God will reattach any who accept Christ, and only then.
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Matthew 23:39 is addressing Jerusalem. Do you claim to be Jerusalem?

    Matthew 23:
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

    39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    _____________________________________________________________
    The 70 weeks:

    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
     
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus fulfilled the 70 weeks. Antichrist was a no show. We are Israel, not the broken off unbelievers.
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Do you claim to be Jerusalem?
     
  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.” (Hebrews 12:22–24)
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Dave, I retagged this thread because I don't want to get into the amillennial point of view in this thread. It is a distraction from the topic.

    You are welcomed to start another thread - if you claim you are Jerusalem - on why you think you are Jerusalem. I would like to hear why you think you now are Jerusalem. I have not heard anyone make that claim before.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think Amillennialism is on topic since the rapture can be any day now. It happens on the last day when Jesus returns, right after the resurrection. But a new thread would be welcome where we can explore the details.
     
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Well just start a new thread and express all your rationale and please explain why you think you are now Jerusalem.

    I will take the blame for not putting tags on this thread to start with.

    The topic in this thread is not "anytime return of Christ".
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If your position is true, you have nothing to fear. Again, I'm on topic saying the rapture can happen anytime now as part of the return of Christ on the last day.
     
  17. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    If you want to keep things in context you should consider this verse.

    Luke 21
    36 But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man
    Escaping all these things that shall come to pass.........includes wars and rumors of war, famines, pestilences etc.
     
  18. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Paul sums it up very clear here:

    1 Thessalonians 4

    The Return of the Lord

    13 Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

    15 By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we will by no means precede who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lorde those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17 After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

    18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

    1st Resurrection - All the saved (in the grave or alive at the time of His 2nd coming) go to be with the Lord.
     
  19. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    The dead in Christ rise first. The barley harvest. They go to heaven. When Christ comes for the living, He will bring them with Him.....in the clouds. Those caught up alive will join those in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
     
  20. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    The saved dead and the saved living all go together at once at His 2nd coming and meet Him in the air. It's going to be a glorious and noisy event! Amen.

    God Bless.
     
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