Anyone up for a chat thread?

Paidiske

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I must admit, I don't really like translating weekday festivals to the nearest Sunday. I think it reinforces the view that church is this thing we do for an hour on Sunday mornings, and the rest of the week we get on with our real lives. But practically speaking, doing anything else can be a challenge. I really missed having a service for Ascension this year.
 
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CanadianAnglican

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There are only a handful of feasts that may be transferred to a Sunday. I'm still trying to figure out how else to approach the issue. One possibility might be (in t he context of an urban parish with numerous other parishes in the diocese in close proximity) trying to hold a mass which is supported by multiple parishes and to which multiple parishes are invited. One parish might host it with the incumbent celebrating, another parish might be invited to supply snacks for a fellowship time afterwards and another parish priest might preach the homily. Our ordinary has been trying to promote great ties between parishes, and it kind of feels like something along these lines might work. It spreads the load out and also seems like you might be able to get more people to attend (making all the effort feel more worth while).
 
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Paidiske

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Just out of curiosity, where most of you are, do you have enough people coming through for ordination? Or is there talk of a priest shortage?

In my city-based diocese we have enough, but I had a long conversation yesterday with someone struggling to find people willing to go to very isolated rural/remote areas. It made me wonder if other provinces have similar issues?
 
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CanadianAnglican

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As the saying goes in Canada, they're always looking for priests in the Diocese of the Arctic.

There's no shortage in the Anglican Church of Canada because while our rate of decline is lower than some other churches like TEC were still in significant decline generally, especially in cities where there is declining religiosity and people finding less of a draw to Liberal parishes (compared to evangelical protestants which have significantly larger numbers) and in rural parishes it tends to reflect declining rural populations
 
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Shane R

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We have a wealth of clergy and several more being ordained every year, which may not sound like a lot, but the average continuing diocese probably has 10-12 parishes and 2-3 missions. Many of them are older folks entering the priesthood as a second vocation. You never know how long their ministry will be.

The ACNA churns out priests at a clip that far exceeds their ability to support them. They are big on church planting though, so if nothing else the new priests will get 8-10 people together and start a mission in the back of a catering business or a hotel conference room or some such place. I would like to see reliable statistics on how many of those fail. . .
 
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Paidiske

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Are they using a worker-priest model, then? Where the clergy continue in their secular jobs as well?

I've heard it suggested that as the church continues to lose the ability to pay large numbers of clergy more of us will need to do that. One of my lecturers said to us that "Paul didn't sell his tent-making tools and neither should you." I've been fortunate not to need to do that yet, though. I think it would be very hard to make that work.
 
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Shane R

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Are they using a worker-priest model, then? Where the clergy continue in their secular jobs as well?

I've heard it suggested that as the church continues to lose the ability to pay large numbers of clergy more of us will need to do that. One of my lecturers said to us that "Paul didn't sell his tent-making tools and neither should you." I've been fortunate not to need to do that yet, though. I think it would be very hard to make that work.

Most of the guys I was speaking of have retired from some other job and are entering the priesthood in their late 50's or 60's. I met one about a year ago that had entered the priesthood at 81. The younger and middle age priests are mostly bi-vocational. Continuing parishes tend to be on the small side. In our diocese, probably an ASA slightly under 50.
 
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Paidiske

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Well, yes, it's easier if you're retired with savings. I've known a few like that too.

I did have one colleague who had a part time ministry role and continued to work part time as a librarian. It seemed to work for her. And several manage some academic work on the side. I gather they find it hard, though, because both the University and the Church seem to think they should be your only priority at all times!
 
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everbecoming2007

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I've read a long time that there is a surplus of priests here in the ECUSA even though our members are in sharp decline. But I haven't looked into the matter to verify it.

The last I heard from my bishop my particular diocese (of Texas) is growing, and I haven't heard of any priest shortage here locally.
 
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graceandpeace

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I haven't heard of a priest shortage in TEC. I know some smaller or poorer churches can't afford a full-time priest.
Not ironically, some of the smaller Episcopal churches I've visited (with the exception of the Anglo-Catholic parish) have been among the most warm, inviting.
 
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Paidiske

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One of the things I've noticed, now that I'm working in a parish which can only afford a part-time priest, is that many members of the congregation are quicker to take responsibility for making things work. They don't have that, "Well, that's what the priest is there for," mentality. It also means they are warm and welcoming, because they don't think that "someone else" will be friendly to the visitor!

It's rather nice, from my point of view. I don't have to work hard just to get people engaged.
 
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Arcangl86

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There are a lot of small churches that are struggling to find priests, that is definitely true. As for the talk about more people needing to be "bi-vocational" I'm always cautious because a lot of people who are pushing that are themselves either single vocation or have a second vocation that easily synergizes with being a priest, like social work.
 
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everbecoming2007

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I haven't heard of a priest shortage in TEC. I know some smaller or poorer churches can't afford a full-time priest.
Not ironically, some of the smaller Episcopal churches I've visited (with the exception of the Anglo-Catholic parish) have been among the most warm, inviting.

I seem to remember this topic coming up from time to time, an interesting one to me.

Did you find the Anglo-Catholic parish uninviting?

Until I went to tea under the trees after several visits I had no one speak to me except an occasional hello or smile and a brief greeting from the deacon on the way out. At tea only one person struck up a conversation. I told her I was thinking of being baptized, and she was very gentle in her encouragement in that regard.

I always took this to reflect a more reserved mentality though, not an unfriendly one. I did not feel unwelcome by any means. I would not have joined the other churches here in which people are much too zealous to get members or otherwise make me feel uncomfortable with too much undoubtedly well intentioned friendliness, but this is a matter of my personality. I primarily connected to the priest under which I received private instruction and to this day have had few personal connections in the parish and two of those are the clergy.

We have grown some and have more social outlets under our new priest, a good thing I think, but it is still a reserved group. Some people in the service I primarily attend now did not recognize me, and it was only after several services that anyone asked me about myself once I agreed to have snacks and coffee after the service. Those sorts of activities are where we generally get to know people. It's not something people try to do right before or after the Eucharist. There is a guest book I never see anyone sign.

I can see how persons coming from more extroverted congregations or denominations might find it unfriendly. Briefly under an intern priest a custom was introduced of asking visitors to stand and introduce themselves. The priest looked so uncomfortable, and he was a very friendly man. I thought it very good that practice was quickly dropped after about two services or so. I would hate being put on the spot like that. No one ever did respond to the invitation.

I felt very comfortable attending this parish and being baptized here, but some parish members from different denominational backgrounds and/or Episcopal parishes have thought it was cold or unfriendly. I just never felt that way. It has always seemed overall very warm to me in its own way.
 
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graceandpeace

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I seem to remember this topic coming up from time to time, an interesting one to me.

Did you find the Anglo-Catholic parish uninviting?

Until I went to tea under the trees after several visits I had no one speak to me except an occasional hello or smile and a brief greeting from the deacon on the way out. At tea only one person struck up a conversation. I told her I was thinking of being baptized, and she was very gentle in her encouragement in that regard.

I always took this to reflect a more reserved mentality though, not an unfriendly one. I did not feel unwelcome by any means. I would not have joined the other churches here in which people are much too zealous to get members or otherwise make me feel uncomfortable with too much undoubtedly well intentioned friendliness, but this is a matter of my personality. I primarily connected to the priest under which I received private instruction and to this day have had few personal connections in the parish and two of those are the clergy.

We have grown some and have more social outlets under our new priest, a good thing I think, but it is still a reserved group. Some people in the service I primarily attend now did not recognize me, and it was only after several services that anyone asked me about myself once I agreed to have snacks and coffee after the service. Those sorts of activities are where we generally get to know people. It's not something people try to do right before or after the Eucharist. There is a guest book I never see anyone sign.

I can see how persons coming from more extroverted congregations or denominations might find it unfriendly. Briefly under an intern priest a custom was introduced of asking visitors to stand and introduce themselves. The priest looked so uncomfortable, and he was a very friendly man. I thought it very good that practice was quickly dropped after about two services or so. I would hate being put on the spot like that. No one ever did respond to the invitation.

I felt very comfortable attending this parish and being baptized here, but some parish members from different denominational backgrounds and/or Episcopal parishes have thought it was cold or unfriendly. I just never felt that way. It has always seemed overall very warm to me in its own way.

I would say my main issue was their obvious discomfort with kids.

My kids were/are young, & it was our first visit to this church, so they were a bit restless but nothing I couldn't handle in the back pew. If they had started screaming or crying for longer than 30 seconds - 1 minute, I would've removed them until they were calm.

For the most part, we were ignored by parishoners, but a few kept gaulking & were visibly annoyed. The same person must have reminded me there was a nursery available like 3 times. This parish is also probably the most conservative in the diocese.

To me, being welcoming means being able to embrace whoever walks through the church doors, however they might challenge us. The mom with her babies/toddlers/kids doesn't want to be stared at or shushed.

Unfortunately, with the parish I'm attending now, I had a few similar negative experiences with grumpy parishoners. Thankfully, the clergy members & other church members made up the deficit. I'm also probably more persistent or forgiving when trying out a church due to my experiences, but other persons may have just not returned, which is a serious matter. We are slowly starting to work on a few things in my own church.

The main reasons I never visited the Anglo-Catholic parish again are, A) the distance to my house ruled it out as a regular church to attend, B) too conservative, & of course C) my perception of the church not being comfortable with kids. C) could've possibly been overcome with time, maybe even B), but A) would've still been an issue of course.
 
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Paidiske

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Ohhh, the kids thing. It's hard everywhere.

In my last parish I ended up buying a big icon of Christ blessing the children and hanging it so that whenever people turned around to frown at noisy kids they'd be eyeballing the icon. I think it actually made a difference!
 
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SnowyMacie

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I seem to remember this topic coming up from time to time, an interesting one to me.

Did you find the Anglo-Catholic parish uninviting?

Until I went to tea under the trees after several visits I had no one speak to me except an occasional hello or smile and a brief greeting from the deacon on the way out. At tea only one person struck up a conversation. I told her I was thinking of being baptized, and she was very gentle in her encouragement in that regard.

I always took this to reflect a more reserved mentality though, not an unfriendly one. I did not feel unwelcome by any means. I would not have joined the other churches here in which people are much too zealous to get members or otherwise make me feel uncomfortable with too much undoubtedly well intentioned friendliness, but this is a matter of my personality. I primarily connected to the priest under which I received private instruction and to this day have had few personal connections in the parish and two of those are the clergy.

We have grown some and have more social outlets under our new priest, a good thing I think, but it is still a reserved group. Some people in the service I primarily attend now did not recognize me, and it was only after several services that anyone asked me about myself once I agreed to have snacks and coffee after the service. Those sorts of activities are where we generally get to know people. It's not something people try to do right before or after the Eucharist. There is a guest book I never see anyone sign.

I can see how persons coming from more extroverted congregations or denominations might find it unfriendly. Briefly under an intern priest a custom was introduced of asking visitors to stand and introduce themselves. The priest looked so uncomfortable, and he was a very friendly man. I thought it very good that practice was quickly dropped after about two services or so. I would hate being put on the spot like that. No one ever did respond to the invitation.

I felt very comfortable attending this parish and being baptized here, but some parish members from different denominational backgrounds and/or Episcopal parishes have thought it was cold or unfriendly. I just never felt that way. It has always seemed overall very warm to me in its own way.

I'm also in the Diocese of Texas, there's an Anglo-Catholic parish? I'm thinking about chaining parishes, not sure how much longer I can do low-church.
 
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Arcangl86

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Ohhh, the kids thing. It's hard everywhere.

In my last parish I ended up buying a big icon of Christ blessing the children and hanging it so that whenever people turned around to frown at noisy kids they'd be eyeballing the icon. I think it actually made a difference!
That is brilliant.
 
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everbecoming2007

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Ohhh, the kids thing. It's hard everywhere.

In my last parish I ended up buying a big icon of Christ blessing the children and hanging it so that whenever people turned around to frown at noisy kids they'd be eyeballing the icon. I think it actually made a difference!

Wonderful!

Graceandpeace, I am appalled by those reactions. As far as I am concerned children belong with us in the liturgy. Why else would we baptize them??
 
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