Anyone have a brief overview of what is to come?

[BABerean2]

LOL!

He left out the videos too. The same videos he uses over and over again for all arguments regardless if people are having a conversation about apples, oranges or bananas.



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@BABereans2

Hey BAB, if you're reading this, it's not because I've been ignoring you, it's because I already know what videos and scriptures you'll be posting in your reply.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.



Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

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[Dave L]

Nope

There is the Rev 16 seven last plagues that have not happened yet -- that must happen before the Rev 19 second coming event will take place.

And there is the Rev 13-14 issue of the mark of the beast that has not happened yet - before the second coming event also described at the end of Rev 14 ... and also in Rev 19.



God is literal in the book of Revelation, the saints are literal, the devill is literal, the wicked are literal , the Earth is usually literal...

Just because "a symbol is ever used" in a given book - does not give one license to spiritualize everything in the book into oblivion.

So then Revelation 16

==============================
Then I heard a loud voice from {the temple}(lit), saying to {the seven angels} (lit), “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the {wrath of God} (lit).”

2 So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on {the earth}(lit); and it became a {loathsome and malignant sore on the people}(lit) who had the mark of the beast and {who worshiped}(lit) his image.

3 The {second angel}(lit) poured out his bowl into the {sea, and it became blood like}(it) LIKE that of a dead man; and {every living soul in the sea died}(lit).

4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the {rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood}(lit). 5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying, {“Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things; 6 for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it.”} (lit) 7 And I heard the altar saying,{ “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”}(lit)

8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl upon {the sun, and it was given to it to scorch men with fire}(lit). 9 {Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.}(lit)

10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and {they gnawed their tongues because of pain, 11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.}(lit)

12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, so that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east.

Armageddon
13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for {they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.}(lit) 15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”) 16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

Seventh Bowl of Wrath
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl upon the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, “It is done.” 18 And there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder; and {there was a great earthquake, such as there had not been since man came to be upon the earth, so great an earthquake was it, and so mighty. 19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell}(lit). Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath. 20 And {every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And huge hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, *came down from heaven upon men; and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, because its plague *was extremely severe.} (lit-literal)

So if you see all this physically happening, you'll know when Christ returns? Something only the Father knows?

 

[Dave L]

That is true -- Christ appears, there is the resurrection of the righteous and than all the saints both living and those that were just raised from the dead are caught up in the air and taken to heaven with Christ.

Only on the last day before the universe explodes and the new heavens and earth emerge.

 

[Seville90210]

@BABereans2

Hey BAB, if you're reading this, it's not because I've been ignoring you, it's because I already know what videos and scriptures you'll be posting in your reply.

You are attempting to make your doctrine work by ignoring the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.


2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[BobRyan]

Only on the last day before the universe explodes and the new heavens and earth emerge.

creative writing

2 Peter 3 - "A day - is as a 1000 years" with God and a 1000 years "as a day".

 

[BobRyan]

So if you see all this physically happening, you'll know when Christ returns? Something only the Father knows?

When you see Christ appear in the sky - you will know when Christ returns - something only the Father knows.

When you see the 7 last plagues - you still will not know when Christ returns except that it happens whenever He decides to have the 7th plague. But even in the 6th plague you won't know when the 7th will start.

So it is not clear what point you are making.

 

[BobRyan]

'taken to heaven'?
Either show us plainly where that verse, or any verse, says there will be a 'rapture to heaven', or if you can't, then retract and apologize for your error.

Matthew 5:16
glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;

"IN My Father's house are many mansions. I GO to prepare A PLACE for you - and if I go to prepare a place for you - I will come again to RECEIVE you to Myself that WHERE I am THERE you may be also" John 14:1-3

Matthew 6 "Our Father who dwells IN HEAVEN"
Matthew 18:14 "your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish."
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple

John 14:12 "I GO to the Father"

Luke 24 -
While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven.

Acts 7:55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;

Eph 6: knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.
1 Pet 3:22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven

John 13
33 Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ ... “Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later.

Mark 10:21
Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Luke 12:33 “Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven

Phil 3:20: For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ

Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven

1 Peter 1:4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

Hebrews 11 14 For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

=============

1. Jesus went to heaven.
2. Jesus said our citizenship is in heaven.
3. Jesus said He GOES to heaven to prepare A PLACE for us -
4. then comes back to take us - to receive us up to Him -
5. that WHERE He is THERE in that place - we may BE also.

'taken to heaven'?
Either show us plainly where that verse, or any verse, says there will be a 'rapture to heaven', or if you can't, then retract and apologize for your error.

Given those texts - I have no need to retract scripture or apologize for what it says about the fact that Jesus returns to take the saints to heaven.

1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so (in this way / because of this rapture event) we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

None of your scriptures actually say that God intends to rapture people to heaven.

until you read them.

And pay attention to "the details".


1. Jesus went to heaven.
2. Jesus said our citizenship is in heaven.
3. Jesus said He GOES to heaven to prepare A PLACE for us -
4. then comes back to take us - to receive us up to Him -
5. that WHERE He is THERE in that place - we may BE also. Rapture 1 Thess 4

 

[Dave L]

When you see Christ appear in the sky - you will know when Christ returns - something only the Father knows.

When you see the 7 last plagues - you still will not know when Christ returns except that it happens whenever He decides to have the 7th plague. But even in the 6th plague you won't know when the 7th will start.

So it is not clear what point you are making.

We won't know until it happens.

 

[BobRyan]

We won't know until it happens.

Jesus said "you WILL know when it is near - even at the door" Matthew 24.

The 6th plague comes before the 7th.

Bible details matter.

 

[BobRyan]

None of your scriptures actually say that God intends to rapture people to heaven.
Jesus said:
John 3:13 No one has gone up to heaven, except the One who came down from there…
Jesus is talking about the things of heaven, truths that apply forever.

John 7:33-34…I am going away to Him who sent Me and where I go, you cannot come.
A plain statement that also applies forever.

John 8:21-23 Again He said: Where I go, you cannot come. You belong to this world below, I to the world above….
Our home is the earth, we are earth people and not spirits and even after the Millennium, those worthy will become immortal, but will still remain on earth. Revelation 21:1-4

John 17:15 I do not pray that You take My people out of this world, but to keep them from the evil one.
Jesus was talking to God and what He asked applies to all Christians. Remember: we pray for God’s Kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven and it will, with the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 5:10 You have made them priests for our God and they shall reign on earth.
This refers to every faithful Christian, people from every tribe, race, nation and language, they shall reign on earth. That is our destiny, we never go to heaven, only our souls if we are martyred. Revelation 6:9-11

you have confused events at the 2nd coming with events after the millennium. more attention to Bible details would fix that problem.

Jesus took to heaven with him "a host of captives" Eph 4 at the time He ascended to heaven.

Moses and Elijah - already in heaven in Matthew 17 BEFORE the cross - at the mount of transfiguration this is seen.

Elijah "Taken up to heaven" 2 Kings 2.
Enoch as well.

Christ is the only one to bodily ascend in his own power to heaven. But angels do it all the time and God took Enoch and Elijah to heaven (already).

The fact that humans will "inherit the earth" after the 1000 years does not delete all these Bible statements about humans taken to heaven at different points in history -- or the details that show that all the saints are taken to heaven at the rapture which happens at the 2nd coming.

 

[BobRyan]

Proving that Jack and Jill went up the hill does not prove that Bill and Betty did not go up first.
Proving that there is a post trib rapture does not prove that there will not be a pretrib rapture.

Taking the texts that speak about the rapture to show that in the sequence the Bible gives - it is post-trib does not stop someone from a creative-writing effort to claim that there is also another rapture - a pre-trib one not mentioned in the Bible. I freely admit that.

 

[iamlamad]

He comes post trib and raptures the saints.

Matthew 24 "Immediately AFTER the TRIBULATIONS of those days.. He will send forth His angels to GATHER His Elect" --

Pretrib and midtrib rapture theories do not survive Matthew 24.

WRONG: He comes postrib to gather his ELECT.

The truth is, the gathering in Matthew 24 is simply NOT Paul's rapture.

Question: is God not allowed to have more than one gathering? Maybe you should tell Him!

 

[iamlamad]

you have confused events at the 2nd coming with events after the millennium. more attention to Bible details would fix that problem.

Jesus took to heaven with him "a host of captives" Eph 4 at the time He ascended to heaven.

Moses and Elijah - already in heaven in Matthew 17 BEFORE the cross - at the mount of transfiguration this is seen.

Elijah "Taken up to heaven" 2 Kings 2.
Enoch as well.

Christ is the only one to bodily ascend in his own power to heaven. But angels do it all the time and God took Enoch and Elijah to heaven (already).

The fact that humans will "inherit the earth" after the 1000 years does not delete all these Bible statements about humans taken to heaven at different points in history -- or the details that show that all the saints are taken to heaven at the rapture which happens at the 2nd coming.

Very good point! This is Bible truth.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Taking the texts that speak about the rapture to show that in the sequence the Bible gives - it is post-trib does not stop someone from a creative-writing effort to claim that there is also another rapture - a pre-trib one not mentioned in the Bible. I freely admit that.

I totally agree that you can take some scriptures and prove that there is a post trib rapture. But when you prove who is raptured you find that it is not the Church. Given that the first fruits of the post trib rapture are 144,000, 12,000 from each tribe we know that the harvest is of the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. We also know that this gathering includes not only those on the earth, but those in heaven.....the church. They are already in heaven pre trib.

Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

We can certainly pinpoint a rapture to post trib........immediately after the tribulation, when the sun is darkened and the moon gives not her light and the stars fall from heaven..........and then will appear the sign of the son of man

So after the Lord pinpoints his coming, why does he say that the goodman will not know when he is coming? In an hour when you think not.

 

[iamlamad]

Taking the texts that speak about the rapture to show that in the sequence the Bible gives - it is post-trib does not stop someone from a creative-writing effort to claim that there is also another rapture - a pre-trib one not mentioned in the Bible. I freely admit that.

Admit all you want: you are just not seeing what millions of others DO see.

For example: did you just overlook how Paul shows us HIS rapture comes just before THE DAY begins? No? Read it again! Notice that a moment after the dead in Christ rise, two different groups of people get two different results: those in Christ get raptured and get to "live together with Him" while those living in darkness get His wrath in the form of "sudden destruction." That sudden destruction will be a worldwide earthquake caused by God bringing together the particles of the bodies of the saints. The dead in Christ will be around the world, so this will cause a worldwide earthquake.

Did you not read in Mat. 27: "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened?" When God raises the dead, it causes an earthquake. Note also when God raises the two witnesses there is another earthquake.

Where in Revelation does Paul's rapture fit? Of course just before God's wrath begins: at the 6th seal. Paul's rapture then will come a moment before the 6th seal.

Then John SAW the raptured church in heaven in chapter 7.

The truth then, is that Paul's rapture is pretrib. The "trib" does not start until the 7th seal.

 

[iamlamad]

Jesus said "you WILL know when it is near - even at the door" Matthew 24.

The 6th plague comes before the 7th.

Bible details matter.

One does not have to imagine that 6 comes before 7! How can anyone miss such a thing?

 

[iamlamad]

When you see Christ appear in the sky - you will know when Christ returns - something only the Father knows.

When you see the 7 last plagues - you still will not know when Christ returns except that it happens whenever He decides to have the 7th plague. But even in the 6th plague you won't know when the 7th will start.

So it is not clear what point you are making.

The truth is, anyone can count 1260 days from the abomination, so Jesus will NOT come at the 7th vial that ends the week. He is going to come when People are not expecting Him. The truth is, the events of chapters 17 and 18 will come after the 7th vial - not to mention the marriage and supper in heaven. These events too will come after the 7th vial and before He comes.

 

[iamlamad]

Only on the last day before the universe explodes and the new heavens and earth emerge.

Did you not read? The new heavens come after the great, white throne judgment, which will not come until after the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Or did you mean "the last day" of the white throne judgment? I cannot find that anywhere.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Jesus said "you WILL know when it is near - even at the door" Matthew 24.

.

Let's read exactly what it says.

Matt 24
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What was the most recent prophesy that has been fulfilled or is being now?

What are we to expect in the Future?

The wicked become more wicked, the righteous become more righteous.

(until Jesus returns soon)