Anyone have a brief overview of what is to come?

[Douggg]

Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:31 is after Jesus has returned to planet earth. It is not in heaven, like Revelation the 5th seal, the mass multitude of the Revelation 7. It is on earth, and the gathering is the Jews from the nations of the earth - and them Jews which were caught up in the rapture (heaven).

Revelation 12 is the 7 years as it pertains to Israel, the Jews. Them in Judea, flee to the mountains, is to the Jews.

Matthew 24:31, the gathering of the elect is pertaining to the Jews. It is not saying that Christians, who are born gentiles, don't count. But it is dealing with the nation of Israel, which the disciples would understand. The Jews were going to be scattered into the nations, and Jesus was going to gather them all back at his return.

Here it is in Ezekiel 39. Dealing with the nation of Israel. Jesus Himself speaking in the text, having returned to planet earth.

Ezekiel 39:21
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

a few verse dwon speaking about the Jews and Israel....

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

That's the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31.

 

[Douggg]

After restudying this, I think that the abomination of desolation is what triggers the final part of the tribulation. Then Jesus comes for the gathering of Matt 24 and then the wrath of God begins.

When Jesus returns, the closing of the wrath of God in Revelation 16 is finished.

The great tribulation begins 1335 days before. Yes, it is triggered by the abomination of desolation - the image of the beast placed in the temple.

The Day of the Lord begins slightly before the great tribulation. There is not much separation between the two.

The Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God - triggers the Day of the Lord. That act reveals him to be the man of sin, not the messiah as the Jews will have thought.

He start persecuting the Jews right away, because they will reject him and his claim. There will be strangers who will kill him, this is in Ezekiel 28:1-10. In Isaiah 14, he is brought back to life. It is then, he becomes the beast personality, and the false prophet has the image of him made and places it in the temple - triggering the great tribulation

 

[BABerean2]

There is plenty of scriptural support, but you certainly will not find it until you look for it. If you would merely seek......you would find. Here we see the elect being gathered from earth......and heaven

Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

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[keras]

There is plenty of scriptural support, but you certainly will not find it until you look for it. If you would merely seek......you would find. Here we see the elect being gathered from earth......and heaven

Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I have searched for a 'rapture to heaven' in the Bible. It is not there.

But there is plenty of scriptural support for the truth that we must endure until the end. Revelation 13:10
Your quote of Matthew 24:31 happens at the glorious Return of Jesus to earth. Proved by verse 30.
So how can it mean a removal from the earth. Why would Jesus send His people to heaven, when He has just come from there? Revelation 5:9-10 proves He doesn't do that.

CW, like many good Christians, you have been taught lies and falsehoods, preachers saying 'nice' things instead of the truth of the testing times ahead.
It would be better for you to know the truth and be prepared for all that is to come on earth.

 

[Douggg]

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The speakers' rationale is wrong. He cites an old testament passage about the powers of heaven shaken before the Day of the Lord begins. But he doesn't understand that this is actually the Day of the wrath of the Lamb in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, near the end of the seven years. Which that is on the threshold of Jesus's return and the 1000 years reign of Jesus for a time of global peace, when the nations beat their swords into plowshares.

Then he correctly states that 1Thessalonians5 is a continuation of the resurrection/rapture verses of 1Thessalonians 4. But he doesn't mention that the world will be saying peace and safety at the time - that the Day of the Lord begins like a thief in the night.

There is no way that people will be saying peace and safety during the great tribulation. So the resurrection and the rapture cannot take place post trib.

Where the person fails in his logic is that he doesn't understand the concept of the Day of the Lord in the first place. It is the early years of the Day of the Lord is where all the trouble is. The Day of the Lord actually includes the 1000 year reign of peace on earth during Jesus reign, and then extends into eternity.

But the beginning years are going to be a rough go - especially for Israel.

 

[keras]

The speakers' rationale is wrong. He cites an old testament passage about the powers of heaven shaken before the Day of the Lord begins. But he doesn't understand that this is actually the Day of the wrath of the Lamb in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, near the end of the seven years. Which that is on the threshold of Jesus's return and the 1000 years reign of Jesus for a time of global peace, when the nations beat their swords into plowshares.

Then he correctly states that 1Thessalonians5 is a continuation of the resurrection/rapture verses of 1Thessalonians 4. But he doesn't mention that the world will be saying peace and safety at the time - that the Day of the Lord begins like a thief in the night.

There is no way that people will be saying peace and safety during the great tribulation. So the resurrection and the rapture cannot take place post trib.

Where the person fails in his logic is that he doesn't understand the concept of the Day of the Lord in the first place. It is the early years of the Day of the Lord is where all the trouble is. The Day of the Lord actually includes the 1000 year reign of peace on earth during Jesus reign, and then extends into eternity.

But the beginning years are going to be a rough go - especially for Israel.

I don't bother much to correct you, Douggg, as you just ignore it, to your discredit.
But you blatant shuffling of the Revelation sequence; the Sixth Seal to just before the Return, is so wrong and such bad false teaching, that I must speak against it.

It is plain from the over 100 prophesies about the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, that it will be the world changer that will enable the establishment of a One World Govt and the new nation of Christians in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 8:24-26

 

[Seville90210]

LOL, Come on BABerean2, you are king of pulling a verse out of context. No one does it better......or worse

LOL!!! WINNER!!! WINNER!!! WINNER!!!

This is the most accurate post I've ever seen!

 

[BABerean2]

The speakers' rationale is wrong. He cites an old testament passage about the powers of heaven shaken before the Day of the Lord begins. But he doesn't understand that this is actually the Day of the wrath of the Lamb in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, near the end of the seven years. Which that is on the threshold of Jesus's return and the 1000 years reign of Jesus for a time of global peace, when the nations beat their swords into plowshares.

Then he correctly states that 1Thessalonians5 is a continuation of the resurrection/rapture verses of 1Thessalonians 4. But he doesn't mention that the world will be saying peace and safety at the time - that the Day of the Lord begins like a thief in the night.

There is no way that people will be saying peace and safety during the great tribulation. So the resurrection and the rapture cannot take place post trib.

Where the person fails in his logic is that he doesn't understand the concept of the Day of the Lord in the first place. It is the early years of the Day of the Lord is where all the trouble is. The Day of the Lord actually includes the 1000 year reign of peace on earth during Jesus reign, and then extends into eternity.

But the beginning years are going to be a rough go - especially for Israel.

All of the above falls apart in the passage below.

It connects 1 Thessalonians 5:1 to Revelation 16:15-16, when He "comes as a thief", on "the Day of the Lord".

Peter was not looking for a 1,000 year carnal kingdom where Christ would rule over a world where sin and death remain, after His Second Coming.


2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

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[Seville90210]

If you mean I do not use "newspaper exegesis", then you would be correct.

BAB, Jesus commanded us "numerous" times in "numerous" verses to be watchful of His return when you see the signs He gave coming to pass. But it wasn't just Jesus, Paul also told us to do the same thing in his book about the rapture of the church. The two most knowledgeable people on the rapture in the bible warned us to do the same thing. Think about that.

Mark 13:37 King James Version (KJV)
And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

1 Thessalonians 5:6 King James Version (KJV)
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.



Now, do you understand what the message behind the parable below is telling you? (Matthew 24:42-44). You must watch for His return for the church otherwise He'll come upon you as a thief and leave you behind if you don't.

Matthew 24:42-44 King James Version (KJV)
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


BAB, notice Jesus said the goodman was the one who the thief came upon, not the wicked or sinful man. And these are references to Christians: foolish virgins.

The bible is 1/3 prophecy. Of that, less than 1% was about the first coming, an more than 99% is about the second coming. Basically 1/3 of the entire bible is about His return. With so much information given to us in prophecy on the second coming, there's no reason for any Christian who are anxiously waiting upon His return for His bride not to know when and not to be ready.

Now this was what had happened in the first century with Jesus' reaction to the Israelites who did not know and were not prepared for His coming. He hid the truth from them and prophesied over the destruction of Jerusalem that was later fulfilled in 70AD simply because they weren't looking for the arrival of their Messiah.

Luke 19:41-44 King James Version (KJV)
41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.



Near the end of His ministry, Jesus reminds them of their fate when the temple will be destroy. He then tells the Israelites He will not return until they are finally looking for Him, or their Messiah.

Matthew 23:37-39 King James Version (KJV)
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.



Now if this was what Jesus did to the Israelites because they were not aware of their Messiah's arrival during the first coming, what do you think is gonna happen to those who are not looking and not ready for His return? Mind you, less than 1% prophecy was on the 1st coming and more than 99% are about the 2nd coming with specific signs given by Jesus Himself.

With so much information given on the second coming, there's no excuse not to know the times and seasons of His return. When the scribes and pharisees refused to believe He was their Messiah who had arrived, they wanted a miracle as evidence, He refused, instead He gave them the warning sign from Jonah.

Matthew 16:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.



So as far as newspaper exegesis if that's what you want to call it, I'll take them, use them, and keep watching as He commanded us, "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!"

 

[Choose Wisely]

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He seems to skip right past verse 1 doesn't he. Secondly in addition to a pretrib rapture of the Church, there will be a post tribluation (pre wrath) rapture of the 12 tribes.........as proven by the 144,000 first fruits. This is your cue to proclaim that God is not going to keep His word and turn his attention to his ELECT. He kept his word and restored the nation of Israel. He kept His word with Jerusalem. He will keep it with a third Temple and He will keep his word with his people. There is nothing you can do or say that will change the truth. So go ahead and waste your time promoting a failed doctrine.

1 thes 5
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

 

[Douggg]

It connects 1 Thessalonians 5:1 to Revelation 16:15-16, when He "comes as a thief", on "the Day of the Lord".

"comes as thief", "comes as a thief in the night" - these are figures of speech - to indicate without warning, suddenly. But are not unique to any one event.

 

[BABerean2]

He kept his word and restored the nation of Israel.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

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[Choose Wisely]

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

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Video was too long to listen too.

It would not matter if some guy from Mongolia won a power ball lotto and purchased the land for the Jews to return to. If he took credit for it, that's his folly. If it's in God's word as a prophecy it's going to happen.

Well unless of course two guys got in a spit ball fight and one guy put the other guys eye out. If he felt so bad that he put his own eye out and then tied himself to the other guy. And then if the guys were jogging up the street and tripped over a watermelon causing a 114 year old grandma that was driving an 18 wheeler to drive over a gas pump.....causing an explosion. This in turn caused us to think we were getting bombed and sent us into World War II. If after the war the now 118 year grandma won an insurance claim and bought land........found gold......gave it to the two one eyed guys, who bought the land for the nation of Israel.....and they claimed credit. Do they get the credit or do we go with God said it would happen in His word. I'm going to have to go with God. You take the one eyed guys.

 

[BABerean2]

Do they get the credit or do we go with God said it would happen in His word.

Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Son of God said that He is the "heir" to the land, instead of those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".
He also said the kingdom would be taken from those who reject Him and it would be given to another nation bearing fruit
That nation is found below.



1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

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[Douggg]

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

First generation to be given the Kingdom of God.

 

[BABerean2]

First generation to be given the Kingdom of God.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

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