Anyone else tired of the police-hate threads

[Ana the Ist]

I'm well aware that he was acquitted by a grand jury. But you can look at the video for yourself. The man basically rolls up to the scene and immediately opens fire.

Regarding that particular case...

If you said he used poor judgment...I'd say probably. When you think about it, he wasn't the only person that day who regarded Tamir as dangerous...wrongly. Obviously, whoever called it in to the police at least considered it possible that the boy was a threat.

If you said that he could've approached the situation more tactically...I'd agree. From what I understand, he thought that the boy was on the other side of the park. I could be wrong, I haven't seen any official statement on this.

If you said that he broke the law...you're absolutely wrong. From what I understand he killed someone who he considered a lethal threat...which is reasonable since he had what appeared to be a lethal weapon. That's not a "special privilege" that a cop has...you would be justified in doing the same.

Maybe you think he should've waited until bullets were whizzing by his head before shooting back...and that's an argument you can make...but that's not a problem with the police, it's a problem with the law. By all appearances, the cop followed the law and did exactly as he should. He isn't trained to wait for his suspects to shoot first...he's trained to shoot any suspect who is even reaching for a gun.

 

[whatbogsends]

Today anyone with a cell-phone can police the police.

And sometimes, when they do, police make false charges against the person doing the recording, and destroy the evidence, if possible. The police do this in places where recording the police is legal. We've shown examples of this.

Policing the police is the duty of every citizen. Their job is supposed to be "to protect and serve", but i've had far more encounters where it seemed like their job was "to bully and intimidate" than "protect and serve". Plenty of interactions where it was pleasant and uneventful, very few that fell under "protect and serve" - I did have a police officer pull over to "assist" when we had a flat. he didn't actually assist with changing the tire, we had that under control, but his car did help provide additional space between my car and traffic. Then again, i've helped (as a normal citizen) other disable vehicles 5 times, so it's not some sort of "heroic" act that only police are capable of doing.

 

[whatbogsends]

You know, just to contextualize some of this, I feel the need to point out "The Talk". You've all heard of the sex talk, the drugs talk, maybe a few other such talks... Did you get the "police" talk? What was it like? For African-Americans, this is an important one. You can hear such stories everywhere you look. These people teach their children to be afraid of the police, because they have to - because the alternative often ends up being dead children. This is not something they want to do. This is something they do because they know their children will not be treated the same way white children will by the police, and this disparity will only grow as the child grows older. These are the talks they give because otherwise, or even in spite of it, their child might end up being the next Freddy Gray or Tamir Rice. Even the wealthy and powerful must give this talk to their children. Gawker has collected several statements, here are some excerpts I found particularly interesting:

No sugarcoating. There it was. "Look, stay away from cops. They are not your friends. You answer their questions if they ask you with 'yes sir' and 'no ma'am' unless it is incriminating, then you exercise your right to be silent. Don't talk back, don't even slouch, pull up your pants. Be polite, no sudden movements. Don't give him a reason because these cops will shoot you and not think twice about it." She used choice other words, but that was it. All our suspicions, fears about police vocalized by the smartest person we knew.

[...]

I have a 24-year-old son. I have given him the talk. He has been with me when the police stopped me, primarily because the police recklessly eyeballed my son, and didn't see me—the little old lady—driving the car. So he knows the drill. Ask the police before you reach for your license. Ask the police for permission to get your insurance card and registration out the glove box. Do not answer any questions. Just do as you are told.

Once my son and I were getting out the car at the shopping mall, the police approached him and asked him: "Did you just leave the mall?" I intervened. I instructed my son to "never, ever answer a question from the police." Ask the police: "Am I free to go?" Do not answer any questions. Be polite. Be cordial. But never answer any questions. Keep asking: "Am I free to go?" "Am I under arrest?" "What are the charges?" "May I make a phone call?" However, do not move suddenly. Do not get smart-alecky. Do not run. If the police start swinging, drop to the ground, protect your head and vital organs by curling up in a ball on your knees.

[...]

I've been given this talk many times by many people. Don't be aggressive. Police usually work in groups of two: If you see one, assume there is one you cannot see. Nine times out of ten, people will believe the police over believing you. If a cop hits you, don't fight back: Hope that someone will notice and say something. Never match outfits: More than three men dressed in the same color equals a gang.

When I was younger, I listened, but I didn't think it applied to me. My eyes weren't opened until I was older; I was stopped numerous times in high school. I played the French horn, and was once pulled off the train by a cop who thought it was a bomb or that I was smuggling drugs or weapons.
​

I never got the talk. I'm white.

Is this justified? By almost every metric I've seen, the police disproportionately abuse minorities. From marijuana arrests (whites and blacks smoke at the same rates, but whites don't go to prison for it nearly as often) to stop and frisk, where a whopping 83% of those stopped were black or hispanic (they make up a combined 50% of the population), to traffic stops and searches, to lethal force.

Maybe, just maybe, all this "hate" will be enough for the good cops to break the blue wall of silence and cast out the perpetrators from their midst. Maybe it will be enough for police departments to straighten up and not hire guys who were previously thrown out of other police departments for psychological breakdowns and dismal performance!

So yeah. Just a little context for the next time you seem frustrated that people are hating on the police. Maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't that we're super mean and unreasonable to the police force, but rather that there are serious problems within the police force and not nearly enough is being done to address them. Maybe it's slightly more of a problem that a solid quarter of African-Americans have little to no trust for the police, that "Driving While Black" is a thing, that "Walking While Black" is a thing, and that African-Americans would be downright irresponsible if they didn't teach their sons that, in the eyes of the police, they have two strikes against them just for being black men.

My wife's father was a NYPD cop. He gave her "the talk". Never volunteer information to the police. Never let them inside your home unless they have a warrant. He made it clear to her that police were not people to be innately trusted because of their profession.

 

[whatbogsends]

That isn't what I said. I said the song was a political screed promoting an agenda based largely on discredited narratives. Hands-up don't-shoot did not happen.

Hands-up don't shoot did, absolutely happen. We'll never know for sure if it happened in Ferguson (i'm willing to believe it probably didn't), but it did happen:

2nd more, clear video of man shot with hands up here:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...eals-details-in-fatal-shooting-of-6692051.php

 

[The Cadet]

If you said that he broke the law...you're absolutely wrong. From what I understand he killed someone who he considered a lethal threat...which is reasonable since he had what appeared to be a lethal weapon. That's not a "special privilege" that a cop has...you would be justified in doing the same.

I do not believe even for a moment that this is true.

If I rolled up to a kid, saw him reaching for something in his pants, and just indiscriminately opened fire, I would be on the hook for murder. Even if I knew that he had a gun on him. At least, I should be on the hook for murder. Justifiable self-defense is one thing, but I had no reason to believe that I was in danger! Even if I knew they had a gun. It takes a bizarre level of paranoia to make that logical leap in a place where carrying a gun is legal.

And of course, there's precedent too. For example, here's a case where, rather than fearing for his life from a child in the open, a man fired his gun in self-defense after his home was broken into without warning by heavily-armed strangers, being charged with first-degree murder. He thought his home was being broken into by burglars; it was a SWAT team. So civilians get nowhere near the same degree of benefit of the doubt in most cases.

Maye testified that on the night of the raid, he was asleep in his living room when a loud crash woke him up. Thinking he was being the victim of a robbery and wanting to protect his baby daughter (who was asleep), Maye went into a bedroom and grabbed a pistol—and when officer Ron W. Jones broke into that bedroom, Maye fired three shots. Jones was killed, and Maye was charged with first-degree murder, convicted by a predominantly white jury and sentenced to death by lethal injection.

In court, Maye testified, “After I fired the shots, I heard them yell, ‘Police, police!’ Once I heard them, I put the weapon down and slid it away. I did not know they were police officers.” And Maye’s girlfriend Chenteal Longino (who lived with him) testified: “He was defending himself and my child.”

[...]

Similarly, Chesapeake, Virginia resident Ryan Frederick said he believed he was acting in self-defense when he killed narcotics officer Jarrod Shivers during a paramilitary SWAT raid. On January 17, 2008, narcotics officers carried out a no-knock raid on Frederick’s home based on an informant’s claim that he was growing marijuana in his garden. Frederick, evidently believing that he was being robbed, fatally shot Shivers—and after the raid, the only thing officers found was a small amount of marijuana (a misdemeanor in Virginia). No marijuana plants were found. But on February 4, 2009, Frederick was sentenced to ten years in prison for voluntary manslaughter despite his assertion that he thought he was acting in self-defense and didn’t know Shivers was a police officer. Balko, onMarch 18, 2008, had commented: “Ryan Frederick is merely the latest citizen to be put in the impossible position of being awakened from sleep, then having to determine in a matter of seconds if the men breaking into his home are police or criminal intruders.”

Like Maye and Frederick, Christina Korbe of Indiana Township, Pennsylvania (a Pittsburgh suburb) said she believed she was acting in self-defense when she fired a shot that killed a narcotics officer who was bursting into her home. The target of that investigation was not Christina Korbe but rather, her husband Robert R. Korbe, who was suspected of drug dealing and eventually pled guilty to that offense (in 2010, he was sentenced to 25 years in prison for cocaine distribution, mail fraud and illegal possession of firearms). However, there was no concrete proof that Christina Korbe herself had any involvement in drug trafficking. She was home with her two children when, around 6 AM on November 19, 2008, officers showed up with a warrant to arrest her husband; FBI Special Agent Samuel Hicks was the first to burst through the door (a battering ram was used), and Korbe has said that she shot him thinking he was a robber and didn’t realize he was an FBI agent. Korbe stressed that she was trying to protect her two children when she fired the fatal shot.

Prosecutors would have loved to put Korbe away for life, but instead, she agreed to a plea bargain. Korbe pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter and weapons charges, and in January 2011, she was sentenced to almost 16 years in prison. In September 2013, Korbe sought a reduced sentence, but her request was denied.
​

There does indeed seem to be something of a disparity here.

Look, if I see someone packing heat reach for their midriff, this is not sufficient justification to assume they're about to pull out their gun and shoot me. Any assumption of the sort based on merely those facts is grounded in unreasonable paranoia, not rational thought. Especially not if they're 12 years old, and I'm a police officer. Rational fear for your life cannot be that easy to claim. You cannot make that claim when faced with a 12-year-old you haven't even given two seconds to react. You cannot make that claim when faced with a man with a knife staggering around in your general direction. You cannot make that claim after you've disarmed someone and pinned them. It's absurd.

 

[Nithavela]

Hands-up don't shoot did, absolutely happen. We'll never know for sure if it happened in Ferguson (i'm willing to believe it probably didn't), but it did happen:

Why, at least they must have been put on a trial for this blatant... aaaand they weren't indicted.

Turns out this was a suicide by cop and he was holding a knife in his hands.

 

[JackRT]

I've jumped in here to page 5 without reading the earlier pages so I might be repeating something already said. It certainly seems to me as a Canadian that police in some jurisdictions have become radicalized and respond with excessive force particularly when race is involved. A few weeks ago I had a conversation with our local police chief (Ontario Provincial Police). I asked him directly what the difference was between a good and a bad police force was. He replied "Quality and training." He went on to speak of the quality of those entering the police force and the thoroughness of their training both as recruits and ongoing on the job.

 

[Sistrin]

Hands-up don't shoot did, absolutely happen.

"Hands-up, don't shoot" was a narrative born of Ferguson, to this day used by BLM and other groups to evoke the image of a poor, innocent Michael Brown being gunned down by a racist white cop. That narrative was a lie, nothing more.

 

[whatbogsends]

Why, at least they must have been put on a trial for this blatant... aaaand they weren't indicted.

Turns out this was a suicide by cop and he was holding a knife in his hands.

Did you watch the video and see the invisible knife he was carrying?

 

[Tallguy88]

ADMIN HAT

Thread moved from News to Politics.

 

[JustOneWay]

"Hands-up, don't shoot" was a narrative born of Ferguson, to this day used by BLM and other groups to evoke the image of a poor, innocent Michael Brown being gunned down by a racist white cop. That narrative was a lie, nothing more.

You keep saying that like it is supposed to discredit all the times people have been shot while their hands were up, or shot trying to comply with cops.

I see what you are doing....

 

[mark46]

The situation is not all that complicated. Until the recent cameras, police almost never were convicted. Bad cops and bad action by police need to be punished.

Many jurisdictions have the answers, without letting the police be subject only to internal discipline. In Oakland, Body and vehicle cameras reduced incidents and crime. Incidents were rescued by over 70%.

 

[Nithavela]

Did you watch the video and see the invisible knife he was carrying?

No, I researched the story BEHIND the video. You may wish to do that, too.

 

[whatbogsends]

No, I researched the story BEHIND the video. You may wish to do that, too.

I've researched the story fully as well. The claims made by the police are not supported by the evidence in either of the 2 videos.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I do not believe even for a moment that this is true.

If I rolled up to a kid, saw him reaching for something in his pants, and just indiscriminately opened fire, I would be on the hook for murder. Even if I knew that he had a gun on him. At least, I should be on the hook for murder. Justifiable self-defense is one thing, but I had no reason to believe that I was in danger! Even if I knew they had a gun. It takes a bizarre level of paranoia to make that logical leap in a place where carrying a gun is legal.

And of course, there's precedent too. For example, here's a case where, rather than fearing for his life from a child in the open, a man fired his gun in self-defense after his home was broken into without warning by heavily-armed strangers, being charged with first-degree murder. He thought his home was being broken into by burglars; it was a SWAT team. So civilians get nowhere near the same degree of benefit of the doubt in most cases.

Maye testified that on the night of the raid, he was asleep in his living room when a loud crash woke him up. Thinking he was being the victim of a robbery and wanting to protect his baby daughter (who was asleep), Maye went into a bedroom and grabbed a pistol—and when officer Ron W. Jones broke into that bedroom, Maye fired three shots. Jones was killed, and Maye was charged with first-degree murder, convicted by a predominantly white jury and sentenced to death by lethal injection.

In court, Maye testified, “After I fired the shots, I heard them yell, ‘Police, police!’ Once I heard them, I put the weapon down and slid it away. I did not know they were police officers.” And Maye’s girlfriend Chenteal Longino (who lived with him) testified: “He was defending himself and my child.”

[...]

Similarly, Chesapeake, Virginia resident Ryan Frederick said he believed he was acting in self-defense when he killed narcotics officer Jarrod Shivers during a paramilitary SWAT raid. On January 17, 2008, narcotics officers carried out a no-knock raid on Frederick’s home based on an informant’s claim that he was growing marijuana in his garden. Frederick, evidently believing that he was being robbed, fatally shot Shivers—and after the raid, the only thing officers found was a small amount of marijuana (a misdemeanor in Virginia). No marijuana plants were found. But on February 4, 2009, Frederick was sentenced to ten years in prison for voluntary manslaughter despite his assertion that he thought he was acting in self-defense and didn’t know Shivers was a police officer. Balko, onMarch 18, 2008, had commented: “Ryan Frederick is merely the latest citizen to be put in the impossible position of being awakened from sleep, then having to determine in a matter of seconds if the men breaking into his home are police or criminal intruders.”

Like Maye and Frederick, Christina Korbe of Indiana Township, Pennsylvania (a Pittsburgh suburb) said she believed she was acting in self-defense when she fired a shot that killed a narcotics officer who was bursting into her home. The target of that investigation was not Christina Korbe but rather, her husband Robert R. Korbe, who was suspected of drug dealing and eventually pled guilty to that offense (in 2010, he was sentenced to 25 years in prison for cocaine distribution, mail fraud and illegal possession of firearms). However, there was no concrete proof that Christina Korbe herself had any involvement in drug trafficking. She was home with her two children when, around 6 AM on November 19, 2008, officers showed up with a warrant to arrest her husband; FBI Special Agent Samuel Hicks was the first to burst through the door (a battering ram was used), and Korbe has said that she shot him thinking he was a robber and didn’t realize he was an FBI agent. Korbe stressed that she was trying to protect her two children when she fired the fatal shot.

Prosecutors would have loved to put Korbe away for life, but instead, she agreed to a plea bargain. Korbe pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter and weapons charges, and in January 2011, she was sentenced to almost 16 years in prison. In September 2013, Korbe sought a reduced sentence, but her request was denied.
​

There does indeed seem to be something of a disparity here.

Look, if I see someone packing heat reach for their midriff, this is not sufficient justification to assume they're about to pull out their gun and shoot me. Any assumption of the sort based on merely those facts is grounded in unreasonable paranoia, not rational thought. Especially not if they're 12 years old, and I'm a police officer. Rational fear for your life cannot be that easy to claim. You cannot make that claim when faced with a 12-year-old you haven't even given two seconds to react. You cannot make that claim when faced with a man with a knife staggering around in your general direction. You cannot make that claim after you've disarmed someone and pinned them. It's absurd.

Let's just be honest for a moment Cadet, because I like you and respect your opinion here. You're leaving out some rather important facts to make your argument appear better than it is. When I said you had the same rights...I meant under similar circumstances...circumstances that you're ignoring.

This isn't a situation where a cop rolled up and just shot the first person who fit the description. He had information about a young black male brandishing a gun at people...so let's assume you have the same situation. You see a young black male pointing a gun at people. You're saying that if it then appeared that he was about to point it at you...you couldn't legally defend yourself? I disagree...I think that you can.

As for the other cases you presented...I looked into the first one and, shockingly, Alternet isn't exactly presenting a clear and unbiased story. From what I read, it appears that the police did knock and announce they were police. Even if you don't believe the police in this situation...I'm sure you can understand why a juror might.

Honestly, I don't know why you want to want to look at wildly different cases and try to compare them to each other. That's not going to help us understand if there's a problem of police violence against blacks in this country. The best we can do is look at some dubious numbers...

1000 people killed by police last year...and that number has problems but I'll go with it cuz it's the highest I could find. Of those 35% ish were blacks...so 350...but I'll round this up to 480 to make the math easier. Now, let's assume that all of those killings were completely wrong...even though we know that isn't the case...

There's over 48 million black people in this nation. Those 480 represent less than 1 ten thousandth of one percent. So...just by skin color...you had less than .0001% chance of being killed by police last year. Keep in mind though, that's a inflated number...the real statistic (if we're looking for wrongful killings...and we are) is more like less than .00001% chance.

That's not exactly an epidemic of violence, is it? Remember what I said in that other post that you cut out about how cops are people too...they make mistakes...and there will always be bad ones...because, you know, they're human too.

I understand that any bad instance is a tragedy and we should always strive for better...but we aren't exactly drowning in a violent police state here. All things considered, we've got a pretty good police force.

 

[The Cadet]

He had information about a young black male brandishing a gun at people...so let's assume you have the same situation. You see a young black male pointing a gun at people. You're saying that if it then appeared that he was about to point it at you...you couldn't legally defend yourself? I disagree...I think that you can.

But if that was the case, wouldn't you pause for a moment, and consider the situation? Someone just brandishing a gun at people? Either you take it seriously, in which case, we should take this a lot more carefully than "pull up right in front of him"; or you recognize that the chances are pretty good that a child waving around a gun has a toy, not a real gun. Admittedly, the dispatch should have mentioned this. But either way, the situation was grossly mishandled. Then again, this is one of those places where I expect a little more out of the police than most people. I expect a police officer to take the off chance that this situation might turn dangerous for himself, to avoid executing a kid armed with a BB-gun, much like expect a fireman to, on occasion, go into a burning building. A policeman who would sooner shoot first and ask questions later than take a moment to assess the situation is, in my eyes, a lousy cop.

From what I read, it appears that the police did knock and announce they were police. Even if you don't believe the police in this situation...I'm sure you can understand why a juror might.

I can find no cite claiming that they announced themselves as police in the case of Marvin Guy; the most reliable news source I could find called it a "no-knock raid". And given that it was at 5:30 AM, chances are decent he might not have heard such an announcement before the window being broken woke him up. But beyond that, it seems like we're working off two different sets of rules. Police officers are to be given the benefit of the doubt in every way possible; civilians are given no such benefit even under the most absurd of circumstances.

There's over 48 million black people in this nation. Those 480 represent less than 1 ten thousandth of one percent. So...just by skin color...you had less than .0001% chance of being killed by police last year. Keep in mind though, that's a inflated number...the real statistic (if we're looking for wrongful killings...and we are) is more like less than .00001% chance.

That's not exactly an epidemic of violence, is it? Remember what I said in that other post that you cut out about how cops are people too...they make mistakes...and there will always be bad ones...because, you know, they're human too.

It's not an epidemic of violence, no. But given that interactions with the police are so commonly negative among African-Americans, and given the extreme level of distrust, it is a problem. And it's a problem that is incredibly persistent. The problem isn't just the number murdered, it's the rate at which the officers are allowed to get away with it, combined with the general discrimination of the police when it comes to things like traffic stops, stop and frisk, the incredibly discriminatory way that searches, arrests, criminal charges, and sentencing is done, and the countless ways the police have been known to simply ruin people's lives on the flip of a coin, and the fact that black people get shot more often than not is a very useful rallying point for all these other grievances. It's not much, but it's enough for them to know that if they step out of line, their lives may well be forfeit. It's like Islamic Terrorism, if every day you walked past a guy in public carrying an AK-47, wearing a dynamite belt and saying, "Not today, but tomorrow? You never know!" - even if the impact is small, the fear is there. "The talk" is necessary.

All things considered, we've got a pretty good police force.

Of course, this is just wrong.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries

There's no comparison.

 

[Ana the Ist]

But if that was the case, wouldn't you pause for a moment, and consider the situation? Someone just brandishing a gun at people? Either you take it seriously, in which case, we should take this a lot more carefully than "pull up right in front of him"; or you recognize that the chances are pretty good that a child waving around a gun has a toy, not a real gun. Admittedly, the dispatch should have mentioned this. But either way, the situation was grossly mishandled. Then again, this is one of those places where I expect a little more out of the police than most people. I expect a police officer to take the off chance that this situation might turn dangerous for himself, to avoid executing a kid armed with a BB-gun, much like expect a fireman to, on occasion, go into a burning building. A policeman who would sooner shoot first and ask questions later than take a moment to assess the situation is, in my eyes, a lousy cop.

If that's the case? You realize that those radio dispatchers are recorded right? It is the case. I'm not going to entertain conspiracy theories about massive cover ups if that's where you're going with this...

You're right, he should've approached the situation better. As I said, he claimed that he thought the suspect was on the other side of the park. He probably didn't mean to pull up on him so quickly. That isn't illegal though.

You'd rather the cop risk his life. I understand your sentiment...but I think you're living in a fantasy land that won't ever exist. Some cop getting paid 50k a year has to wait until someone else shoots first? How many people do you think will sign up for that? What do you think the results will be? I would imagine a lot less cops, a lot more crime, more dead cops. After a few years of that...we'll ditch that idea entirely.

I'm sorry we live in a world where little kids have access to guns and kill themselves and others. Happens all the time. There's ways to solve that though.

I can find no cite claiming that they announced themselves as police in the case of Marvin Guy; the most reliable news source I could find called it a "no-knock raid". And given that it was at 5:30 AM, chances are decent he might not have heard such an announcement before the window being broken woke him up. But beyond that, it seems like we're working off two different sets of rules. Police officers are to be given the benefit of the doubt in every way possible; civilians are given no such benefit even under the most absurd of circumstances.

That's not the case you cited. You cited a different case entirely. I did read up on the Marvin Guy case though...and that man shot three cops....he only killed one. If it was just the one...yeah, maybe he did think he was getting robbed. Two cops...maybe he was pulling the trigger a little haphazardly...still self defense. Three cops...I'm inclined to think he was just shooting at the window and didn't care at all who he hit. If you can't realize that you're shooting police after you killed one and injured another...you shouldn't have a gun. I don't buy his story for a minute.

It's not an epidemic of violence, no.

Glad we agree...

But given that interactions with the police are so commonly negative among African-Americans, and given the extreme level of distrust, it is a problem. And it's a problem that is incredibly persistent. The problem isn't just the number murdered, it's the rate at which the officers are allowed to get away with it, combined with the general discrimination of the police when it comes to things like traffic stops, stop and frisk, the incredibly discriminatory way that searches, arrests, criminal charges, and sentencing is done, and the countless ways the police have been known to simply ruin people's lives on the flip of a coin, and the fact that black people get shot more often than not is a very useful rallying point for all these other grievances. It's not much, but it's enough for them to know that if they step out of line, their lives may well be forfeit. It's like Islamic Terrorism, if every day you walked past a guy in public carrying an AK-47, wearing a dynamite belt and saying, "Not today, but tomorrow? You never know!" - even if the impact is small, the fear is there. "The talk" is necessary.

Are the interactions negative because of the cops? Or are the negative because of a false narrative the black community/media is portraying about cops? Like I said, I've been pulled over more than a dozen times...and I can't remember one experience with the police which I'd call "positive". It's at least uncomfortable and embarrassing...sometimes quite intimidating...but what happens during that incident seems to largely be a result of behavior. Is there racism? Sure. There's racism in all levels of the U.S. I just don't think we have a very accurate picture of whether the negative impact on blacks and minorities is because of race.

Of course, this is just wrong.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries

There's no comparison.

What are the gun laws in those countries? Do police need to be concerned for their lives every time they interact with someone? How many violent crimes do those nations have compared to ours? Do their officers get assaulted as frequently as ours? Our police got assaulted almost 50k times last year...that's about 1 in 10. Do you think the police in those nations have the same problem?

You're posting a useless statistic.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If that's the case? You realize that those radio dispatchers are recorded right? It is the case. I'm not going to entertain conspiracy theories about massive cover ups if that's where you're going with this...

You're right, he should've approached the situation better. As I said, he claimed that he thought the suspect was on the other side of the park. He probably didn't mean to pull up on him so quickly. That isn't illegal though.

You'd rather the cop risk his life. I understand your sentiment...but I think you're living in a fantasy land that won't ever exist. Some cop getting paid 50k a year has to wait until someone else shoots first? How many people do you think will sign up for that? What do you think the results will be? I would imagine a lot less cops, a lot more crime, more dead cops. After a few years of that...we'll ditch that idea entirely.

I'm sorry we live in a world where little kids have access to guns and kill themselves and others. Happens all the time. There's ways to solve that though.





That's not the case you cited. You cited a different case entirely. I did read up on the Marvin Guy case though...and that man shot three cops....he only killed one. If it was just the one...yeah, maybe he did think he was getting robbed. Two cops...maybe he was pulling the trigger a little haphazardly...still self defense. Three cops...I'm inclined to think he was just shooting at the window and didn't care at all who he hit. If you can't realize that you're shooting police after you killed one and injured another...you shouldn't have a gun. I don't buy his story for a minute.




Glad we agree...



Are the interactions negative because of the cops? Or are the negative because of a false narrative the black community/media is portraying about cops? Like I said, I've been pulled over more than a dozen times...and I can't remember one experience with the police which I'd call "positive". It's at least uncomfortable and embarrassing...sometimes quite intimidating...but what happens during that incident seems to largely be a result of behavior. Is there racism? Sure. There's racism in all levels of the U.S. I just don't think we have a very accurate picture of whether the negative impact on blacks and minorities is because of race.





What are the gun laws in those countries? Do police need to be concerned for their lives every time they interact with someone? How many violent crimes do those nations have compared to ours? Do their officers get assaulted as frequently as ours? Our police got assaulted almost 50k times last year...that's about 1 in 10. Do you think the police in those nations have the same problem?

You're posting a useless statistic.

After taking a quick glance...only 25 UK cops were killed in the line of duty between 2000 and 2014. Just 25.

In the U.S. for that time period...were talking about 2400+. So I'll stand by my earlier statement....great police force.

 

[tulc]

After taking a quick glance...only 25 UK cops were killed in the line of duty between 2000 and 2014. Just 25.

In the U.S. for that time period...were talking about 2400+. So I'll stand by my earlier statement....great police force.

Do you have a link for the 2400+ officers killed?
tulc(is just curious)

 

[Rick Otto]

You keep saying that like it is supposed to discredit all the times people have been shot while their hands were up, or shot trying to comply with cops.

I see what you are doing....

I know, right?