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Any former Roman Catholics here?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Light of the East, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. ArmenianJohn

    ArmenianJohn Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

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    I'm pretty sure my theory is correct. I think Orthodox monks who are secluded like those on Mt. Athos would not interact with Catholics and it would be natural that they'd have little affinity for anyone else since they don't really know anyone else.

    But my experience is with both cradle EO (mostly Greek) and converts (mostly American) in the US and Canada. I'm not going to take the Roman Catholic position and defend it and I don't know their history re pre-Vatican II etc. but I do know that Roman Catholic people and clergy as well as cradle EO/GO have never given me a hard time in terms of accepting me as a Christian brother; all my negative experiences have been with converts who have, um, strong opinions, to put it mildly. I see it in these forums as well.

    I am certain it comes from their protestant backgrounds since I had spent much of my childhood involved in a protestant church and school. The zeal and rigidity is familiar to me as coming from that background. I remember another Armenian brother and sister in my school who were the only others aside from me and my brother and sister, and many considered them not to be real Christians because they were in the Armenian Church whereas my family was accepted because we had become members of the Baptist Church. I myself had that kind of rigid mindset except in the case of the Armenian Church because my parents taught us otherwise.
     
  2. ArmenianJohn

    ArmenianJohn Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

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    I think that it's probably true that converts are more knowledgable having studied more than most cradle Orthodox. However, I think that is a result of, and not the cause of, their zeal in being "right" and proving everyone else to be "wrong". I think this is the mindset they have before and after entering Orthodoxy.

    Also I will say that my experience with the American Orthodox was that they were very welcoming and friendly on the surface. The insulting part came in continued discussion at the lunch they kindly invited me to which devolved into a series of softly couched lectures as to why I was wrong and not "real Orthodox" and by the end I left without anyone wanting to say goodbye or thank me for coming or follow up with me or anything.

    Anyway, this is my view based purely on my own personal experience with various EO folks. My experiences with Roman Catholics were quite different.

    As to why I'm here and discussing, I asked in my first post in this thread "What's the difference?" (i.e. between Orthodox and Catholic) and meant that Orthodox are Catholic and Catholics are Orthodox. Maybe we can quibble over "Big O vs Little O" or "Big C vs Little C" in that statement but as far as I know both branches consider themselves to be both orthodox and catholic, as well as apostolic. Unfortunately, this somehow got me marked as "debating" or "wanting to debate" which got me a punishment from CF for "debating" - go figure - based on someone's accusing me of doing the same. It's not a debate, it was a statement, and I'm a little perplexed that someone would think either branch is not both of those things (or all 3 when you include Apostolic).
     
  3. ArmenianJohn

    ArmenianJohn Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

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    Thank you for explaining, I never knew about this, that there was such a thing. Very interesting to me. I will research it further, I appreciate you educating me!
     
  4. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Hmm, seems ignorance plays role in both your experiences (not on your part though). I can 'sort of' understand the latter's thinking, but it still doesn't excuse his rudeness.
     
  5. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    There are actually a great many Catholics who visit Mt Athos. I met several on my visits.
     
  6. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    if you are asking what's the difference, that is fine. but then I have to ask why would you say that we fool ourselves into thinking that our differences are more than perceived?

    especially since we have three saints who are collectively known as Pillars of Orthodoxy for standing against Roman heresy.
     
  7. Stabat Mater

    Stabat Mater AgnusDei,qui tollis peccata mundi,dona nobis pacem Supporter

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    Ahh, I'm no stranger to polemics...
    How I love the absence of lukewarmness in TAW, I really do.
     
  8. Jesus4Madrid

    Jesus4Madrid Orthodox Christian

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    That’s funny and not at all my experience.

    I’m a convert and my best friend at my Russian Orthodox Church is Armenian (from Armenia).
     
  9. All4Christ

    All4Christ +The Handmaid of God Laura+ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Please don’t judge me or others who have converted to Orthodoxy. You do not know our intentions. For example, I did not become orthodox because of a zeal to prove everyone else to be wrong. I searched for God to lead me in the right path. Yes I did research and yes I wanted to find truth, but that certainly does not mean that I have a zeal to prove people wrong. The same goes for other converts I know.

    An important part about Orthodoxy - including Oriental Orthodoxy from what I know - is to not judge other people. We aren’t all perfect, but that is a tenet of our faith. Please do not do that here, especially considering you are a guest in this forum.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  10. Stabat Mater

    Stabat Mater AgnusDei,qui tollis peccata mundi,dona nobis pacem Supporter

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    I read it as something more like a general remark than a vicious attack on any specific individual in here.
    Forgive me if I'm wrong.

    God bless.
     
  11. All4Christ

    All4Christ +The Handmaid of God Laura+ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I read it as comment stating that converts research and become orthodox because of a zeal to prove others wrong and to prove they are right....which is insulting to me, and I'm sure others as well. I’m honestly surprised that you see it as an ok remark. He may have spoken it in general, but it implicates all of us converts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  12. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    it's not being polemical to point out that Rome and the Orthodox have different theology. you can't have honest and fruitful dialogue if you aren't being honest about differences.

    it would be polemical if we started posting in the OBOB forum and we don't to my knowledge.
     
  13. Stabat Mater

    Stabat Mater AgnusDei,qui tollis peccata mundi,dona nobis pacem Supporter

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    It's the constant use of the explicit term heretical whenever mentioning the Roman Catholic Church and such that makes my case.

    That being said I stand by what I wrote. I think theodice and polemics are preferable over lukewarmness and sugar coating any day of the week.

    We love and burn for Christ one day perhaps it makes us saints, who knows ? :)
     
  14. Jesus4Madrid

    Jesus4Madrid Orthodox Christian

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    Matt, just a clarification. I understand that some Roman beliefs, such as the Filioque, have been condemned as heresy by the Church. I also recognise that some, such as St. Mark of Ephesus, have declared Romans to be not only “schismatic” but also “heretical”.

    But does the Church have a blanket anathema against Roman Catholics as “heretics”?
     
  15. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    I agree with your second point totally, but when talking about Roman teaching, we should use heretical since they have heretical beliefs.
     
  16. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    local councils and hymns do I think. but the 4th council of Constantinople, which Rome agreed to for 200 years, I am pretty sure anathematizes anyone who uses the Filioque. and I am not sure, but the Palamite Councils also might have something in them.
     
  17. All4Christ

    All4Christ +The Handmaid of God Laura+ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    This thread has seriously gone off topic. Hopefully we can get back on track soon.

    That said, regarding polemics: I really don't like polemics - but I don't think it is a fair statement to say TAW is polemical in general. Using terms like "papist", "uniate", etc. are polemic terms, and I prefer to avoid the terms since they are considered to be offensive.

    That said - do you consider Sola Scriptura to be a heretical (deviation from orthodox teachings) belief? If you consider it to be a heretical belief, does that automatically mean you are being polemical?

    If I went into the Charismatic forum and told them their teachings on Scripture are all heretical, I would consider that to be rude and inappropriate. Likewise, if I went into the OBOB forum and said "You teach heresy because of 'x, y, z'", I would consider that to be rude and inappropriate.

    However, if the reality is that we believe the filioque, for example, is heretical (unorthodox) teaching, do you want us - here in the Eastern Orthodox forum - to say it is a valid / orthodox option to teach?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  18. Stabat Mater

    Stabat Mater AgnusDei,qui tollis peccata mundi,dona nobis pacem Supporter

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    No I would not, that would be the kind of lukewarm approach which I dislike so much.
    Please people, perhaps you use that word polemics different than I, but I consider it to be living a passionate Christian life.

    False unity and cuddling is nothing worth.
     
  19. All4Christ

    All4Christ +The Handmaid of God Laura+ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Perhaps we do understand the word differently - I always took the word to mean vicious rhetoric or hostile attack on someone's beliefs (i.e. a "mean" or "vicious" edge to the comments).

    I certainly agree with having a passionate Christian life - and agree with not being lukewarm or embracing false unity.
     
  20. Anhelyna

    Anhelyna Handmaid of God Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    My understanding of polemic/s is much the same as yours A4C

    from my dictionary
    polemic |pəˈlɛmɪk|

    noun

    a strong verbal or written attack on someone or something: his polemic against the cultural relativism of the Sixties | [ mass noun ] : a writer of feminist polemic.

    • (usu. polemics) the practice of engaging in controversial debate or dispute: the history of science has become embroiled in religious polemics.

    and from a thesaurus

    polemic

    noun

    1 this is not just a polemic against injustice: diatribe, invective, denunciation, denouncement, rant, tirade, broadside, attack, harangue, verbal onslaught; condemnation, brickbats, criticism, admonishment, admonition, abuse, stream of abuse, stricture, tongue-lashing, castigation, reprimand, rebuke, reproof, reproval, upbraiding; informal knocking, blast; Brit. informal slating; rare philippic.

    2 (polemics) skilled in polemics: argumentation, argument, debate, contention, dispute, disputation, discussion, controversy, altercation, faction, wrangling; formal contestation.
     
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