Another 'help with Icons...' thread!

[ukok]

Hello

I wonder if you would be so kind as to take a look at the Icon's in the link and tell me what you think of them please

http://www.cenacle.co.uk/lists/Icons.htm

Could you tell me which you would be most likely to purchase if you were buying one for yourself and why you would buy that one in particular (i don#'t know much about any of the ones featured in the link)...i am considering doing so but i feel spoiled for choice, though i do feel more drawn towards two or three of them, more so than others.


Also, if you would be so kind, could you please advise me of how i would position, display and venerate an icon ?


Thankyou and God Bless.

 

[ufonium2]

For what it's worth, the icon of the Trinity where the Father is represented as an old guy with a beard, and the Holy Spirit as a dove, is considered wrong by most Orthodox I know. I believe that depiction was popular in Greek churches for a while but the Greek priests I have talked to are very much opposed to it. I'm not sure if there are actual canons against such a depiction. Michael the Iconographer could probably tell you.

The "Hospitality of Abraham" is the usual icon of the Trinity in Orthodoxy.

 

[MariaRegina]

Michael the Iconographer is the best one to ask here.

However, from a quick glance, I wonder about the colors. It looks like most are color enhanced.

Most are prints of original Orthodox Icons. Some however are profiles (side views) which I don't think are used in Orthodoxy.

The one of the Holy Family is not used in Orthodoxy but is a modern Catholic version.

Which ones do you favor?

 

[ukok]

For what it's worth, the icon of the Trinity where the Father is represented as an old guy with a beard, and the Holy Spirit as a dove, is considered wrong by most Orthodox I know. I believe that depiction was popular in Greek churches for a while but the Greek priests I have talked to are very much opposed to it. I'm not sure if there are actual canons against such a depiction. Michael the Iconographer could probably tell you.

The "Hospitality of Abraham" is the usual icon of the Trinity in Orthodoxy.

That's interesting, i'd be interested to hear of why that depiction was popular for a time and yet is now not popularly accepted.

Also, as you will be aware, i am not educated in Iconography in any sense! My link therefore was not intending to assume that they were correct depictions or incorrect depictions by Orthodox standards.

I'm grateful for your input, thankyou

God Bless.

 

[ukok]

Michael the Iconographer is the best one to ask here.

However, from a quick glance, I wonder about the colors. It looks like most are color enhanced.

Most are prints of original Orthodox Icons. Some however are profiles (side views) which I don't think are used in Orthodoxy.

The one of the Holy Family is not used in Orthodoxy but is a modern Catholic version.

Which ones do you favor?

Are print's generally unacceptable for those who cannot afford to purchase a non-print Icon ?

Thanks for your input, Elizabeth

God Bless.

 

[Matrona]

A person with a halo is never to be depicted in profile. All of the icons on that page are fine in this regard, though. A complete profile would be where the head is turned completely to the side; as long as you can see both eyes, it is not a complete profile. It is fine to depict a haloed person with his/her head turned to the side as long as it is not completely profile.

The two-men-and-a-dove painting is not an Orthodox depiction. Icons cannot depict God the Father as a man. They do, sometimes, but they shouldn't, and the practice has fallen drastically out of favor since it was condemned by a local council in Moscow a few hundred years ago. God the Father is represented by a half-circle at the top of an icon or a spear pointing, or as the angel in ochre robes in Rublev's Hospitality of Abraham.

 

[ukok]

A person with a halo is never to be depicted in profile. All of the icons on that page are fine in this regard, though. A complete profile would be where the head is turned completely to the side; as long as you can see both eyes, it is not a complete profile. It is fine to depict a haloed person with his/her head turned to the side as long as it is not completely profile.

The two-men-and-a-dove painting is not an Orthodox depiction. Icons cannot depict God the Father as a man. They do, sometimes, but they shouldn't, and the practice has fallen drastically out of favor since it was condemned by a local council in Moscow a few hundred years ago. God the Father is represented by a half-circle at the top of an icon or a spear pointing, or as the angel in ochre robes in Rublev's Hospitality of Abraham.

Thanks for responding, Matrona! I find that really interesting.

God Bless.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear uiok:

Most people can only afford mounted prints which they bring to the priest to be blessed.

Hope this helps.

Where's Michael -- is he still recovering from his long drive?

 

[Matrona]

Where's Michael -- is he still recovering from his long drive?

He's at work. He'll be home late tonight. But for now you have the iconographer's girlfriend and I hope I count for something.

 

[MariaRegina]

He's at work. He'll be home late tonight. But for now you have the iconographer's girlfriend and I hope I count for something.

Of course, that is why I asked the question? I knew you would know.

 

[Michael G]

Most of these are reproductions of famous Orthodox Icons. All are fine except for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit "icon", this defies the decree of the Council of Moscow and the very words of Christ himself. I tend to have my favorite icons, which tend to follow along the lines of taste which I have formed in iconographic styles.

If you can, position your icon by hanging it on the eastern wall of your room, preferably near the corner. Therefore if you get more icons you can start to form an icon corner where you can pray in front of them.

Venerate an icon by crossing yourself, making a deep prostration in front of it, kissing the icon, and then making another deep prostration in front of it.

 

[Oblio]

Venerate an icon by crossing yourself, making a deep prostration in front of it, kissing the icon, and then making another deep prostration in front of it.

I might add (mostly for lurkers ) that we never kiss the cheeks but rather the feet (especially of Christ) or the hands (of Saints). If not depicted, it is customary to kiss the robe on the shoulder. AFAIK, the usual Russian tradition is to preform a full bow (or prostration on Wed/Fri or during fasts) twice, venerate and bow/prostrate again.

 

[Oblio]

Also,

Prostrations are not done on weekends, except Great and Holy Saturday, and are done by kneeling and then placing ones forehead on the floor. Yes, it looks like a Mulsim prostration, because they adopted it from the Christian practice, as they did the daily cycle of prayers and our temple architecture.

 

[Rilian]

I think the Theotokos Portaitissa is probably my favorite, but I didn't see one on that page. I'm also partial to the Vladimir Mother of God which is there.

 

[prodromos]

I'm always surprised at Catholic icons of the holy family depicting Joseph as a relatively young man. I don't believe this is even in keeping with Catholic tradition let alone Orthodox.

 

[prodromos]

Are print's generally unacceptable for those who cannot afford to purchase a non-print Icon ?

Out of our many icons, the majority are prints. We've even got a few that were printed at home from the internet

 

[ukok]

Which ones do you favor?

Sorry, i missed this part of your post!

I am as yet undecided for my own choice, but i was thinking about purchasing one of the St. Michael the Archangel icons for my son (he is 9), he is going to be confirmed in March and as he has an admiration and awe for St. Michael, i thought this would be a really great gift for him!

I 'm not sure about which one i would choose for my daughter or myself.


God Bless.

 

[ukok]

Most of these are reproductions of famous Orthodox Icons. All are fine except for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit "icon", this defies the decree of the Council of Moscow and the very words of Christ himself. I tend to have my favorite icons, which tend to follow along the lines of taste which I have formed in iconographic styles.

If you can, position your icon by hanging it on the eastern wall of your room, preferably near the corner. Therefore if you get more icons you can start to form an icon corner where you can pray in front of them.

Venerate an icon by crossing yourself, making a deep prostration in front of it, kissing the icon, and then making another deep prostration in front of it.

Thankyou for your response!

I am pleased that all of the icon's are acceptable (other than the one that depicts the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). i appreciate your advice about where to position it (must buy a compass!)..is it acceptable to put one in a bedroom? for example, if i were to buy one for my son, would it be ok for him to have it in the room, following the positioning proceedure that you have outlined, of course...do Orthodox children have Icons in their own room generally speaking or are the families icon's usually displayed in one area of the house only ?

Thankyou for your input

God Bless.

 

[ukok]

I might add (mostly for lurkers ) that we never kiss the cheeks but rather the feet (especially of Christ) or the hands (of Saints). If not depicted, it is customary to kiss the robe on the shoulder. AFAIK, the usual Russian tradition is to preform a full bow (or prostration on Wed/Fri or during fasts) twice, venerate and bow/prostrate again.

I'm glad you mentioned about what to do if the feet are not depicted...i had seen in a film that the robe covering the shoulder depicted was kissed, but didn't know if this was normal proceedure

Thank you and God Bless.

 

[ukok]

I think the Theotokos Portaitissa is probably my favorite, but I didn't see one on that page. I'm also partial to the Vladimir Mother of God which is there.

I'll go and see which one that is that is on the Cenacle site.

Thankyou for your contribution to this thread

God Bless