Announcement

[honorthesabbath]

Tall did you post your announcement on the Traditional Subforum? I don't think so, but apparently because you posted in the Adventist Forum and that is claimed by the Traditionals some feel that their claim is a reality. I thought that is why the Traditionals had their own forum so that they could feel like there was no controversy in the SDA church. A place where they could happily post material that no one would disagree with. Because like honor they have grown tired of Biblical interpretation preferring rather the interpretation of the denomination or at least certain aspects of the traditional interpretations.

We have the discussion forum for interaction between the different ideas in Adventism. So please have some respect Honor an allow people to use the forum as it was designed. It is sad to see the vitriol present among some people. People going thru a very hard time dealing with issues important to their beliefs and careers treated as enemies. What part of Biblical Christianity is that based upon. If that is your method of showing God's love then I think it is counterproductive.

RC--you have it backwards Bubba. It is YOUR camp that is lacking in Christian deportment to those who REFUSE to accept your cobbled biblical interpretations. So YOU need to back off and stay out of discussions that upset you.

Oh and BTW--Tall's thread about his 'Announcement" is posted in the D&D section where ANYONE can respond.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

RC--you have it backwards Bubba. It is YOUR camp that is lacking in Christian deportment to those who REFUSE to accept your cobbled biblical interpretations. So YOU need to back off and stay out of discussions that upset you.

Oh and BTW--Tall's thread about his 'Announcement" is posted in the D&D section where ANYONE can respond.

Right I feel the love now, I would be curious as to know when any of the Progressives demanded traditionals leave the SDA church. In any case why if Tall's announcement is in the Discussion and Debate forum you thought it was necessary to claim that he "then why not go quietly without trying to destroy the faith of those who remain? If I and many others in this SDA forum are happy with our beliefs, then who appointed you to disrupt us?

Well--that’s all I have to say about this matter and I'll not go on and on with it. All I ask is that you leave the trads alone and in peace. Thank you."

By the way I never said I was upset just sad to see the vitriol that is expressed. But as this is the discussion forum I think you should stop telling people to leave it whether you think they are upset or not because I really have seen no evidence that you are very aware of what other people are thinking.

 

[tall73]

Tall did you post your announcement on the Traditional Subforum?

No I didn't. I posted it in the main SDA section but it seemed likely to bring debate so I consented to move it to the debate section.

 

[tall73]

Oh and BTW--Tall's thread about his 'Announcement" is posted in the D&D section where ANYONE can respond.

And so are the discussions I wish to participate in. So why should I leave and not discuss?

 

[tall73]

What church are you going to attend that you will not sit there as they spew one false doctrine after the next and wonder what it is you have done?

By the way I attended a very nice church service this week where a former Adventist preacher was delivering a timely message about faith through discouraging times.

I didn't hear any false doctrines. I didn't see anyone hissing like a snake. I did see lot's of people who were praising God and seemed quite thankful.

 

[honorthesabbath]

By the way I attended a very nice church service this week where a former Adventist preacher was delivering a timely message about faith through discouraging times.

I didn't hear any false doctrines. I didn't see anyone hissing like a snake. I did see lot's of people who were praising God and seemed quite thankful.

What is the name of the church? Was the service held on the sunday or Sabbath?

 

[honorthesabbath]

And so are the discussions I wish to participate in. So why should I leave and not discuss?

I think I addressed that already.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Right I feel the love now, I would be curious as to know when any of the Progressives demanded traditionals leave the SDA church. In any case why if Tall's announcement is in the Discussion and Debate forum you thought it was necessary to claim that he "then why not go quietly without trying to destroy the faith of those who remain? If I and many others in this SDA forum are happy with our beliefs, then who appointed you to disrupt us?

Well--that’s all I have to say about this matter and I'll not go on and on with it. All I ask is that you leave the trads alone and in peace. Thank you."

By the way I never said I was upset just sad to see the vitriol that is expressed. But as this is the discussion forum I think you should stop telling people to leave it whether you think they are upset or not because I really have seen no evidence that you are very aware of what other people are thinking.

Where did I post that I demanded anyone leave this forum? I think perhaps your reading comprehension skills are lacking.

 

[honorthesabbath]

And so are the discussions I wish to participate in. So why should I leave and not discuss?

Where did I say that you should leave? Can you show me?

 

[tall73]

What is the name of the church? Was the service held on the sunday or Sabbath?

You know my thoughts and my future before I do. Surely you don't need to ask!

 

[tall73]

Where did I say that you should leave? Can you show me?

You have been saying all of progressives should leave for months. I was a progressive during the time you were saying it.

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=37151240&postcount=2

T&O--I agree totally.

There can never be peace between these two factions.
And you are correct. The progressives and Traditionalists ARE two seperate and distinct denominations and should be listed as such. We have very little in common as a denomination.

I hope with all my heart that this comes to be.

You called us offshoots, etc. due to your view that we were a separate group and should not share your forum, your name or your church.

Now you also said just a bit ago:

The problem though as I see it--is that you continue to come into this SDA forum and are trying to gather sheep unto yourself and desire to spare not the flock.

You said it was a problem that I continue to come to this SDA forum to discuss things.


If you must leave--then why not go quietly without trying to destroy the faith of those who remain? If I and many others in this SDA forum are happy with our beliefs, then who appointed you to disrupt us?

You say if I must leave the church then I should go quietly and leave you alone in the forum.


You not only said it was a problem for me to keep coming here, but you rejoiced that I left the church and wished that all would who thought like me. Everyone can see what you said.

 

[tall73]

Oops, put this one in the wrong thread.

 

[honorthesabbath]

You have been saying all of progressives should leave for months. I was a progressive during the time you were saying it.

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=37151240&postcount=2

T&O--I agree totally.

There can never be peace between these two factions.
And you are correct. The progressives and Traditionalists ARE two seperate and distinct denominations and should be listed as such. We have very little in common as a denomination. I hope with all my heart that this comes to be.

Do I believe that our groups should have their own separate forums, YES, I do. I've never denied that nor do I now. But for you to make that GIANT leap and proclaim that I TOLD you to leave this forum is being VERY dishonest and deceitful.

You called us offshoots, etc. due to your view that we were a separate group and should not share your forum, your name or your church.

I call your group an offshoot because that is exactly what you are. Sorry if the shoe fits Tall. I posted the dictionary's definition of an offshoot--did you read it?

Now you also said just a bit ago:

The problem though as I see it--is that you continue to come into this SDA forum and are trying to gather sheep unto yourself and desire to spare not the flock.

You said it was a problem that I continue to come to this SDA forum to discuss things.

NO!! I said the problem was that you are trying to gather the sheep unto yourself and disperse the flock.! I DIDN"T say the problem was you posting in the forum or 'discussing things'.

If you must leave--then why not go quietly without trying to destroy the faith of those who remain? If I and many others in this SDA forum are happy with our beliefs, then who appointed you to disrupt us?

You say if I must leave the church then I should go quietly and leave you alone in the forum.

Yes, I did say "IF" you must leave. Notice that I didn't TELL you that you had to leave the forum. The 'leave' I was referring to was not the forum, but the church. And yes--I would prefer that you and your aggressive friends DID leave us trads alone and stop bashing our beliefs. Also notice that I said 'why not go quietly and NOT TO TRY TO DESTROY THE FAITH OF OTHERS. I've noted that when Adventists decide to leave the church--they always seem compelled to do so in a grandiose manner and also seem to want to tell the WORLD why. This is what I meant by 'going quietly'.

You not only said it was a problem for me to keep coming here, but you rejoiced that I left the church and wished that all would who thought like me. Everyone can see what you said.

NO TALL--I NEVER said that your coming into this forum was a PROBLEM. I SAID that your attempts to steal the sheep sure is though.
Also Tall--for the record, please post the thread where I "REJOICED" when you left the church. I think your attempt to demonize my comments is unprofessional and very un-Christ like.

I think I'm beginning to see why you have gotten confused on doctrine. You read into sentences things that simply are not there.

 

[tall73]

Do I believe that our groups should have their own separate forums, YES, I do. I've never denied that nor do I now. But for you to make that GIANT leap and proclaim that I TOLD you to leave this forum is being VERY dishonest and deceitful.

Not deceitful at all. You want us to leave. You were going to try to FORCE us to leave, saying that the few traditionals should decide whether there is a split. So were you or were you not trying to get us to leave? Obviously you were. It just didn't go your way.

NO!! I said the problem was that you are trying to gather the sheep unto yourself and disperse the flock.! I DIDN"T say the problem was you posting in the forum or 'discussing things'.

Ohhhhh.

I get it. You want me to discuss things but not to ever differ with you. If I do that then it is trying to gather sheep unto myself.

So let's get this straight. If you are not saying i should leave then I have your blessing to debate issues?

Yes, I did say "IF" you must leave. Notice that I didn't TELL you that you had to leave the forum. The 'leave' I was referring to was not the forum, but the church.

My own comments about your quote said it was in reference to the church.

And yes--I would prefer that you and your aggressive friends DID leave us trads alone and stop bashing our beliefs.

Ah there it is again. You want us to not bother you.

So again, do you or do you not want me debating in your forum? Not that it matters anyway because you don't control what I do. But I want to be clear that you have no problem with me doing that.

But if to say anything in here in the DEBATE forum that does not agree with you is "gathering sheep" unto myself, then you are indeed trying to say I should leave the debate area and not say anything that you don't want.

Also notice that I said 'why not go quietly and NOT TO TRY TO DESTROY THE FAITH OF OTHERS. I've noted that when Adventists decide to leave the church--they always seem compelled to do so in a grandiose manner and also seem to want to tell the WORLD why. This is what I meant by 'going quietly'.

Ohhhhh that is what you meant by that. You meant shut up and don't say anything about the church's wrong teachings. I don't know why I would interpret that to mean you don't want me debating in here.

So...do you or do you not want me debating in here?

NO TALL--I NEVER said that your coming into this forum was a PROBLEM. I SAID that your attempts to steal the sheep sure is though.
Also Tall--for the record, please post the thread where I "REJOICED" when you left the church. I think your attempt to demonize my comments is unprofessional and very un-Christ like.

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40602309&postcount=152

Here again is your comment. You think it would be wonderful for me to go start my own church and all those like me so that you could be free from wasting your time--which of course you never wasted your time on me.

Now Honor, since you are not a sensitive soul and have no problem with being direct, do you want me to debate Adventist doctrine in here?

Again note that I have no intention of going by your wishes. But I think you should be clear since you are on the one hand saying I should go quietly and on the other saying you don't mean I should leave the forum--just not try to win sheep.

So does that mean you don't think I should debate in the debate forum?

And will you also pledge not to try to win sheep from the nominal churches? Will you not try to sway any one in denominations you were formerly in? Will you go quietly?

I think I'm beginning to see why you have gotten confused on doctrine. You read into sentences things that simply are not there.

I think I understand why you are settled on your doctrine. You won't even look at it and don't want anyone bringing it up that has a different view.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

I must admit I agree with Tall here but as we all sometimes misread things maybe honor can present some clear answers in the regard to Progressives and the Adventist church. I will make them simply yes or no questions but of course she can explain her answers.

1. Should Progressive Adventists be accepted as full members in the SDA church?

2. Do you think Progressive Adventist should leave the SDA church?

3. Are Adventist only those who hold to the 28 fundamental beliefs unequivocally?

4. Must a member in the SDA church believe that Ellen White was a prophet?

5. If a baptized member of the SDA church disagrees with any of the 28 fundamentals or does not hold to the churches teaching on the Investigative Judgment or holds to a different view on Eschatology do you think that person should leave the SDA church?

 

[moicherie]

I must admit I agree with Tall here but as we all sometimes misread things maybe honor can present some clear answers in the regard to Progressives and the Adventist church. I will make them simply yes or no questions but of course she can explain her answers.

1. Should Progressive Adventists be accepted as full members in the SDA church?

2. Do you think Progressive Adventist should leave the SDA church?

3. Are Adventist only those who hold to the 28 fundamental beliefs unequivocally?

4. Must a member in the SDA church believe that Ellen White was a prophet?

5. If a baptized member of the SDA church disagrees with any of the 28 fundamentals or does not hold to the churches teaching on the Investigative Judgment or holds to a different view on Eschatology do you think that person should leave the SDA church?

At the end of the day it does not really matter what she thinks on who is a 'real Adventist' she does not have a heaven or hell to put any church members in. And the job of Adventist Inquisitor does not exist. Honor is only responsible for herself and the sooner she realises that the less aggressive she will probaby be.
Calling Progessives 'aggressives' does not come across
as a mindset that has the ability to go to church with people who think differently from herself.
Is one's faith so weak you want your (generic) church to be like the Borg?

 

[StormyOne]

the irony of course is this, had these folks who believe they are tradtionals been living during the early years of the adventist church they would have seen lots of debating (what they are calling bashing) as people studied and bounced the results of their study off each other....

 

[StormyOne]

(EGW, R&H Dec. 20, 1892)

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. We are living in perilous times, and it does not become us to accept everything claimed to be truth without examining it thoroughly; neither can we afford to reject anything that bears the fruits of the Spirit of God; but we should be teachable, meek and lowly of heart. There are those who oppose everything that is not in accordance with their own ideas, and by so doing they endanger their eternal interest as verily as did the Jewish nation in their rejection of Christ. The Lord designs that our opinions shall be put to the test, that we may see the necessity of closely examining the living oracles to see whether or not we are in the faith. Many who claim to believe the truth have settled down at their ease, saying, "I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing."

Tall, hats off to you for following as God leads... the IJ belief has been suspect for a very long time... as a friend of mine says, "Do the will of God without permission or apology..."

Ignore those who are drinking the haterade.... do as God leads....

 

[freeindeed2]

Yes, I did say "IF" you must leave. Notice that I didn't TELL you that you had to leave the forum. The 'leave' I was referring to was not the forum, but the church. And yes--I would prefer that you and your aggressive friends DID leave us trads alone and stop bashing our beliefs.

Yes, the LDS's and JW's would prefer that Christianity NOT unpack and analyze their belief systems and the words of their 'prophets' too.

Also notice that I said 'why not go quietly and NOT TO TRY TO DESTROY THE FAITH OF OTHERS. I've noted that when Adventists decide to leave the church--they always seem compelled to do so in a grandiose manner and also seem to want to tell the WORLD why. This is what I meant by 'going quietly'.

Faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and faith in a complex denominational belief system are completely two different things. Those who aren't afraid to ask the hard questions and seek honest answers at the direction of the Holy Spirit are not destroying faith, they're building it, and in the process learning how to recognize false doctrines and drop belief in them when recognized.

 

[honorthesabbath]

You know my thoughts and my future before I do. Surely you don't need to ask!

So what you are actually saying is that you refuse to answer my questions. Ok-no problem.