Announcement

[RC_NewProtestants]

Thanks for answering the questions but the conflict was over Honor's opinions and I gave her the opportunity to make her position clear she has a tendancy to manipulate language and pretend that people say things they don't say while saying that the things she says are misunderstood. For instance in the previous post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC_NewProtestants
Right I feel the love now, I would be curious as to know when any of the Progressives demanded traditionals leave the SDA church. In any case why if Tall's announcement is in the Discussion and Debate forum you thought it was necessary to claim that he "then why not go quietly without trying to destroy the faith of those who remain? If I and many others in this SDA forum are happy with our beliefs, then who appointed you to disrupt us?

Well--that’s all I have to say about this matter and I'll not go on and on with it. All I ask is that you leave the trads alone and in peace. Thank you."

By the way I never said I was upset just sad to see the vitriol that is expressed. But as this is the discussion forum I think you should stop telling people to leave it whether you think they are upset or not because I really have seen no evidence that you are very aware of what other people are thinking.




Where did I post that I demanded anyone leave this forum? I think perhaps your reading comprehension skills are lacking.

Nowhere did I say she demanded anyone to leave this forum I only used the word demanded in reference to no Progressives have demanded traditionals leave the SDA church.

I really can't respect someone who refuses to communicate their position yet continually makes it clear that they don't want to discuss issues in a forum meant to discuss issues.

Though it was interesting that MVA was only capable of giving a yes or no answer on the first 2 of the 5. The last one he was unable to even answer.

 

[Sophia7]

3. Are Adventist only those who hold to the 28 fundamental beliefs unequivocally?
Every Adventist is going to have different levels of understanding when it comes to this. They should study and learn and grow in their understanding of these topics.

4. Must a member in the SDA church believe that Ellen White was a prophet?
I think that it helps, but here again people are going to be at different levels in the growth process and their understanding of EGW. If a person is having great difficulty they should seek out someone to study with.

5. If a baptized member of the SDA church disagrees with any of the 28 fundamentals or does not hold to the churches teaching on the Investigative Judgment or holds to a different view on Eschatology do you think that person should leave the SDA church?
If a person disagrees with beliefs that are fundamentally Adventist then what is the point of remaining an Adventist?

You keep talking about different levels of understanding. The implication in your answers is that if people have studied thoroughly and have a correct understanding of the Bible, they will accept the Adventist fundamental beliefs, including EGW and the IJ. So here are a few more questions:

1. Do you think that Adventists who accept all 28 of the FBs are at higher levels of spiritual understanding than Adventists who don't?

2. What about people who have studied thoroughly and are seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit but have concluded unequivocally that some of these doctrines are unbiblical? If they still consider themselves Adventists because of the things that they do agree with, should they leave the church?

3. How many fundamental beliefs can a person disagree with before he or she should leave the church? Or is there one in particular that seals the deal (such as the Sabbath)?

4. If an Adventist who once accepted all of the fundamental doctrines later rejects them as a result of comprehensive Bible study, has that person forfeited salvation?

These are all questions that I've struggled with in the past year, and we rarely see direct answers to them from the Traditionals here. Ultimately, I decided that I couldn't agree with enough of the FBs to still call myself an Adventist. However, if others choose to stay for whatever reasons, I respect their decisions. I don't think anyone should try to judge their levels of spirituality.

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

My thoughts..

Personally, I feel uncomfortable calling myself a denomination if I do not agree with some of their principal teachings..because I would be automatically associated with these beliefs and would be constantly explaining myself.

Thusly, I would easily denomination hop to find one that fits me personally at the level I'm currently at. This means in a year from now I could be at a new level, too.

Some peope don't get this. One view I've been told before, since my current church is not convenient to get to..yet there are a couple in easy walking distance to me (United and Catholic), is that people pick their church out of convenience.

That it's wrong to put such level on the denomination, when it's all in the name of God and the same kind of socializing anyway.

I don't agree with this at all. Granted, there may not be a church I fit exactly..but I'm going to go with the overall beliefs. If there's more in the pro than the con (and the cons are not more important than the pros, like for example a church that believes in current everlasting hell)...then I'll stay there.

If a person is still comfortable calling themselves Adventist, then great. If not, then great also. It's their personal feelings that matter.

All I know is that little icon beside my name is what represents my beliefs. I want it to be as accurate as possible.

 

[LightWorker1967]

If a person disagrees with beliefs that are fundamentally Adventist then what is the point of remaining an Adventist?

MVA does have a point – there is a moment when without a high degree of resonance, it's time to move on.

But look at polygyny in early LDS. This was a fundamental, and could have massively fractured the church if the community didn't begin to move together.

I'm not suggesting IJ or any other of our 28 is neatly analogous to this, but it does demonstrate a living evolution of "fundamentals." And a community that thrived.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Come back up. It's messy down there.

I think you lie to yourself. If people like us bother you so badly HERE, then why come here?

You just said if ppl like us were at your local church--you would LEAVE it!

Do you see any inconsistency in your 'logic'?

 

[honorthesabbath]

Come back up. It's messy down there.

Oh--you mean where you are?

 

[mva1985]

You keep talking about different levels of understanding. The implication in your answers is that if people have studied thoroughly and have a correct understanding of the Bible, they will accept the Adventist fundamental beliefs, including EGW and the IJ. So here are a few more questions:

1. Do you think that Adventists who accept all 28 of the FBs are at higher levels of spiritual understanding than Adventists who don't?
No.

2. What about people who have studied thoroughly and are seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit but have concluded unequivocally that some of these doctrines are unbiblical? If they still consider themselves Adventists because of the things that they do agree with, should they leave the church?
Just to make it simple I don't like to see people leave the Adventist church.

3. How many fundamental beliefs can a person disagree with before he or she should leave the church? Or is there one in particular that seals the deal (such as the Sabbath)?
I can not answer this question. If the local church feels someone is being lead astray they should try everything they can to reconcile them. It would need to be brought up at the local church level or possibly the conference level.


4. If an Adventist who once accepted all of the fundamental doctrines later rejects them as a result of comprehensive Bible study, has that person forfeited salvation?
God is the judge of that - I think we can all agree that we are thankful for that!


These are all questions that I've struggled with in the past year, and we rarely see direct answers to them from the Traditionals here. Ultimately, I decided that I couldn't agree with enough of the FBs to still call myself an Adventist. However, if others choose to stay for whatever reasons, I respect their decisions. I don't think anyone should try to judge their levels of spirituality.

Sophia,
I thank you and Tall for exposing yourselves the way that you have - it takes alot of guts to do that. I understand why you have felt the need to leave, but like I said above I don't want anyone to leave.

 

[Sophia7]

Sophia,
I thank you and Tall for exposing yourselves the way that you have - it takes alot of guts to do that. I understand why you have felt the need to leave, but like I said above I don't want anyone to leave.

Thank you for your answers.

 

[sentipente]

You just said if ppl like us were at your local church--you would LEAVE it!

Do you see any inconsistency in your 'logic'?

Please direct me to where I made this statement.

 

[sentipente]

Oh--you mean where you are?

Are we having a problem with the English language? Come vs. Go.