Annihilationism?

[martymonster]

Let Me explain something to you Evergreen!


The wages of sin is death!

Christ received the our wages on our behalf.

if Christ didn't die there would be no resurrection.

We are Christs now to do what He want's with.

Christ will give everyone life eventually, it just will be on God's time table not on anyone elses.

everyone is saved from death but still must have their old sin nature burned out of them, this is the judgment which is a trial by fire!

God does not need any of our help to accomplish this.

any questions?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Fireinfolding, I still do not have any idea about what your definition of 'context' would be. So I'm not sure about what you are trying to convey here. But I'm sure you would understand that there are some scriptures, which transcend contextuality. That is, they are just as true, or that they convey the same meaning in any context in which they might be placed.

Thank you for your response.
Blessings -
Evergreen48

Evergreen its simple really, find the scriptural definition of "context" and examples showing the use of context and you will have your answer

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Evergreen48]

Let Me explain something to you Evergreen!


The wages of sin is death!

Christ received the our wages on our behalf.

if Christ didn't die there would be no resurrection.

We are Christs now to do what He want's with.

Christ will give everyone life eventually, it just will be on God's time table not on anyone elses.

everyone is saved from death but still must have their old sin nature burned out of them, this is the judgment which is a trial by fire!

God does not need any of our help to accomplish this.

any questions?

None that I think you could answer, martymonster. But thanks anyway.

 

[Evergreen48]

Evergreen its simple really, find the scriptural definition of "context" and examples showing the use of context and you will have your answer

Peace

Fireinfolding

I'll work on that, Fireinfolding.

Peace to you also.

Evergreen48

 

[martymonster]

None that I think you could answer, martymonster. But thanks anyway.

Try Me!

 

[Benoni]

Evergreen,

I was not refering to animals if they have a soul ; I do believe when Adam fell; all creation fell with him including all animals; and some day they will be restored to their former state. (Romans 8) I high lighted the references that: spirit shall return unto God who gave it; as well as: spirit of man that goeth upward.


You said:
It makes no sense to me that if Christ was punished for the sins of everyone, including those who are being called the wicked, why would they be punished further. "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit

Being put to death in the flesh is a good way of of explaining.

Most people have the idea that tribulation means wrath, judgment, torment and vengeance. The Greek word is thlipsis, meaning "pressure." It is derived from the word thilbo that means "to crowd, to be pressed upon in a narrow place​

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." Ray Prinzing wrote, "Pressures are used to PRESS US INTO THE KINGDOM! Trying to pray ourselves out of these distresses only defeats their very purpose. But when, in the midst of our pressures, we pray that God would bring us deeper into Himself, then these very straits have served their purpose — for they have channeled us into Him."​

, "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world!" I hear Christ warn His beloved saints in these awesome words, "Yea, and A-L-L that live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." To all who would reign with Him upon His throne He says, "If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him." To those who seek the glory, power, and honor of the kingdom of God He declares, "Ye must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." And Paul adds his voice of admonition, "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience…"
None knows better than He exactly what is needed to transform His sons from corrupt and carnal creatures of the dust to beings of divine understanding and heavenly glory. I have strong confidence in the ability of my heavenly Father to bring me to perfection and maturity as a son of God. My Father is a great son-raiser! He was a colossal success with His firstborn! Anyone who can raise a Son like Jesus Christ knows exactly what He is doing and can surely handle you and me. "We see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings…wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him the name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth" (Heb. 2:9-10; Phil. 2:9-10).

This great work of perfection is done by the Holy Spirit leading us through the counsels, corrections, and disciplines of the Father. As the pressures and persecutions of this world system come against those who are moving on in the Spirit of God, the very test and fire is our purifying fire! It purges out the dross, making us smaller and smaller in our own eyes, and meek and humble in the mighty life of God being wrought in us. As we surrender more and more to Christ in us, it makes our natural man perish more and more until he is completely dead so that Christ alone can come forth in us.

The apostle Peter expressed the truth of it this way: "Beloved, do not be amazed and bewildered by the fiery ordeal which is taking place to test your quality, as though something strange — unusual and alien to you and your position — were befalling you" (I Pet. 4:12, Amplified). "THINK IT NOT STRANGE," the King James Version says — do not be amazed and bewildered, do not be astonished, do not be alarmed or incredulous as though the experience is foreign, unwarranted, unexpected, abnormal, a surprise. It is not an accident — it was PLANNED. It is not a surprise — it was PURPOSED.

— Jesus is being to you what He promised He would be — a REFINER’S FIRE! You are in the crucible of His purpose.

The Psalmist says, "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, PURIFIED SEVEN TIMES" (Ps. 12:6). Seven is the number of perfection! It reveals the great truth that God’s own nature will be produced in the fire. He will heat up the furnace until you have been perfectly cleansed and purified, nothing remaining but HIMSELF. That which the Lord is receiving unto Himself cannot be of an inferior quality to Himself. The gold — ah, it is HIM. The silver — it is of HIM. How marvelous is the grace by which He has birthed us out of His own Spirit, making us "partakers of the divine nature" (II Pet. 1:4).

Those who love the Lord and long to see His purpose fulfilled in their lives, are willing to accept Him as a refiner’s fire, as a thresher of wheat, as a presser of olives, as a crusher of grapes, and as a scourging Father! We accepted Him as Savior, Baptizer, Healer, and Blessed; now we are accepting Him as the Lord of the fires! Our Father has made us willing to embrace the means He uses to perfect us. He perfects us in the crucible of adversities. The tribulations He sends us are not punishments for past failures, but divine tools to conform us to His image. Paul’s thorn in the flesh, Job’s loss of all his possessions, family, and health, Joseph’s betrayal by his brethren, his being sold as a slave, and later his being falsely accused and thrown into prison, were all for a divine purpose.
(Sorry another cut and paste from J Preston Eby)
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[RailcarRev]

I think you are probably correct about what the Jews believed. But it seems to be the opinion of whoever wrote the book of Job, and also the opinion of the Psalmist, that the wicked shall not be resurrected on the 'day of the Lord', or any time afterwards either.

And though I am guessing that instead of 'ON the day of the Lord, those that are dead will remain so - ', you meant, 'UNTIL the day of the Lord, those that are dead will remain so', your typo (if it was a typo) turned out to be correct.

Thanks for your response.
Blessings -

Evergreen48

I can see how there might be a confusion, but I did mean what I said. It is my understanding (and I might be wrong) that as far as Jewish theology goes, that on the day of the Lord, when He comes to judge the righteous and the wicked that only the righteous will rise from the dead.

You see, the Jews have a slightly different belief in the afterlife than the mainstream Christianity. After a quick read of Jewish eschatology over at Wikipedia it seems that, just as in Christianity, there is a rather wide difference in opinion on what really happens in the afterlife, but most Rabbis agree that the concepts of the afterlife of the soul are just that, concepts; that no mortal mind can fully comprehend the meaning of these things.

In regards to the Messianic era, it is commonly held that it will culminate in the bodily ressurection of the dead. It does not, however, say what the fate of the souls of the wicked is, or that there is even a differentiation between them and the righteous.

On a closing note I will include this passage from the Wiki page:

Gehinom is fairly well defined in rabbinic literature. It is sometimes translated as "hell", but one should note that the Christian view of hell differs from the Jewish view. In Judaism, gehinom - while certainly a terribly unpleasant place - is not hell. The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not tortured in gehinom forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be twelve months, with extremely rare exception. This is the reason that even when in mourning for near relatives, Jews will not recite mourner's kaddish for longer than an eleven month period. Some consider Gehinom a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Gan Eden ("Garden of Eden")

Peace.

 

[Benoni]

I can see how there might be a confusion, but I did mean what I said. It is my understanding (and I might be wrong) that as far as Jewish theology goes, that on the day of the Lord, when He comes to judge the righteous and the wicked that only the righteous will rise from the dead.

You see, the Jews have a slightly different belief in the afterlife than the mainstream Christianity. After a quick read of Jewish eschatology over at Wikipedia it seems that, just as in Christianity, there is a rather wide difference in opinion on what really happens in the afterlife, but most Rabbis agree that the concepts of the afterlife of the soul are just that, concepts; that no mortal mind can fully comprehend the meaning of these things.

In regards to the Messianic era, it is commonly held that it will culminate in the bodily ressurection of the dead. It does not, however, say what the fate of the souls of the wicked is, or that there is even a differentiation between them and the righteous.

On a closing note I will include this passage from the Wiki page:


Peace.

Railcarrev

Awesome post

 

[elman]

Let Me explain something to you Evergreen!


The wages of sin is death!

Christ received the our wages on our behalf.

if Christ didn't die there would be no resurrection.

We are Christs now to do what He want's with.

Christ will give everyone life eventually, it just will be on God's time table not on anyone elses.

everyone is saved from death but still must have their old sin nature burned out of them, this is the judgment which is a trial by fire!

God does not need any of our help to accomplish this.

any questions?

Death is not life. The wicked shall die and shall not live. Ezekiel 18. The joint heirs with Christ are those that love their neighbor. The one who do not love their neighbor are not the children of God and not joint heirs with Christ. First John. The wicked do not survive judgment. Matt 25:31 and following.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Death is not life. The wicked shall die and shall not live. Ezekiel 18. The joint heirs with Christ are those that love their neighbor. The one who do not love their neighbor are not the children of God and not joint heirs with Christ. First John. The wicked do not survive judgment. Matt 25:31 and following.

Here's something to think about along the lines of loving you neighbor vs not loving your neighbor.

How many times or for how long must one love thier neighbor to qualify as a sheep?

How many times or for how long must one not love thier neighbor to qualify as a goat?

I find it extremely likely that all of us have both loved our neighbor and failed to love our neighbor at least a few times during our lifetimes here on earth.

So what of these who have done both? Does it require just one single act of loving your neighbor to be a sheep or just one single act of not loving your neighbor to be a goat?

Isn't there some good within us all? Will God destroy that which is good or will he purify that which is good?

 

[Benoni]

There are mob bosses, criminals, murders, many un-regenerated people that know nothing about God who love their neighbor.

 

[elman]

There are mob bosses, criminals, murders, many un-regenerated people that know nothing about God who love their neighbor.

I thought you believed the ability to love came only from God and only to Christians? Is that not what you believe?

 

[Benoni]

I thought you believed the ability to love came only from God and only to Christians? Is that not what you believe?

I have no idea where you got that?

 

[elman]

Here's something to think about along the lines of loving you neighbor vs not loving your neighbor.

How many times or for how long must one love thier neighbor to qualify as a sheep?

How many times or for how long must one not love thier neighbor to qualify as a goat?

I find it extremely likely that all of us have both loved our neighbor and failed to love our neighbor at least a few times during our lifetimes here on earth.

So what of these who have done both? Does it require just one single act of loving your neighbor to be a sheep or just one single act of not loving your neighbor to be a goat?

Isn't there some good within us all? Will God destroy that which is good or will he purify that which is good?

While God is the Judge and I am not, I can still tell the difference between Mother Theresa and Hitler. Yes we have all lied, but we are not all liars as Bill Clinton did under oath. Our all being liars does not make us equal with him, nor does it make him the same as those of us who respect the truth. God will separate the sheep from the goats. He is the only one that can. If your point were valid then there would be no wicked and no righteous people, but there are and that is not saying the wicked have never done a good things or that the righteous have never done an evil thing. It is saying however that we can have lifestyles that are loving and we can have lifestyles that are unloving and the scriptures I quote indicate that is possible and also indicate these things make a difference to the Creator.

 

[Benoni]

My strong contention is that the Church misunderstands the purpose of God’s judgments, and consequently, misrepresents His character to the world. Rather than viewing all of God’s judgments and punishments from the perspective of the “spiritual man,” Christians have instead interpreted them out of the “natural man”—a man desiring retribution against his enemies. Most of us have been taught that the “natural man” spoken of by Paul in 1 Cor. 2:14 applies only to unredeemed man, however, Christians are just as capable of thinking and walking in the natural (carnal) realm. One needs only to look at the current state of the church with all of its division and strife to see that this is true. This is why Paul exhorts us to “renew our minds” and to “walk in the Spirit.” It is for this very reason why I believe the Church has embraced the false doctrine of never-ending punishment. The “natural man” simply cannot understand the things of the Spirit, and so it is this same natural man who has ruled over the “new man” and prevented us from seeing the true purpose for God’s judgments.

Many read the Bible and see two contradictory views of God: first, the fiery God of judgment as described in the Old Testament, and second, the Christ of love as demonstrated in the New Testament. Some, confused by this apparent contradiction, reject the Bible as the inerrant Word of God. However, when we study the subject of God’s judgments, we must not take the “hard” passages by themselves, but instead, must study them in the light of God’s enduring love and mercy. Take them alone, and we have a god whose forgiveness and mercy is limited; but take them in light of God’s everlasting love and compassion and we see that there is no contradiction at all—the glove of God’s judgment fits perfectly over His hand of love.

The Bible declares “Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, THE LORD IS ONE.” This statement not only forms the basis of our monotheistic belief, but it also clearly declares that, in God, there is no variation or division. The number “one” is scripture means unity, united, undivided, or unfragmented. So when the Bible says, “God is one,” it is another way of saying that GOD CANNOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF. In Him there is no division, and since the Scriptures are the very Words of God, it also cannot contradict itself. For God to contradict Himself would mean that He is divided within Himself; for the Scriptures to contradict itself would bring discredit upon its inerrancy—both of which would be a fatal blow to the Christian faith. However, James says that in Him there is “no variableness, neither shadow of turning.” (Ja. 1:17) Praise His blessed name that there is no division found either in God or His life-breathed Word!

Let’s take one example—2 Thes. 1:8-9. Paul here tells us that God will punish those who obey not the gospel of Christ with everlasting destruction. Does he mean that these men will remain as sinners forever, to be tormented with never-ending punishments, OR could it be that, just like when Jesus did not mean we are to literally hate our loved ones, this passage does not speak of the eternal torture of men, but the everlasting destruction of the old nature and its evil deeds? (See note below) The Church would have us believe the former, but I contend that their interpretation of this and many like passages contradicts the myriad of passages that speak of God’s love and mercy. By no means do we intend to make light of God’s judgment or in any way lessen the need for it. We do not object to God’s judgment as it is taught in the Holy Scriptures. However, we do object (and reject) the “orthodox” teaching that does not take God’s love into consideration when discussing His judgments, but instead puts Him in the unscriptural position of forever turning His back on billions and billions of people never again to show them love or mercy. This is just as wrong as believing that we are to literally “hate” our parents, or that we are to literally eat the body of Christ. By the end of this article, I hope to show you that by interpreting the Scriptures in the “usual” way, our premise, “God loves the sinner, but hates the sin,” would be invalid.

Let there be no doubt that God will destroy the wicked and all his evil works (Ps. 145:20; Ps. 7:9), but how can God judge the sinner yet not contradict His love for all men? The answer to this question is so very simple, and yet has been grasped by so few: God will destroy all sinners by making them friends! Paul tells us that this is exactly what happened to us.

For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life; (Rom. 5:10)
For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life; (Rom. 5:10)

We were once by nature, children of wrath (Eph. 2:3), and the sons of disobedience, (Eph. 2:2), and in fact, in our flesh, we are still yet enemies of the Cross. (Phil. 3:18) But just as God brought us from the depths of our despair and is in the process of changing us from an enemy to a friend, think it not a strange thing for God, who is rich in mercy and partial to none, to do this same work in other men in the ages to come. Col. 1:20 says that Christ will reconcile all things (lit. remove all enmity between two parties) to the Father by the blood of His Cross. God’s purpose for judgment is not to torment eternally, but to destroy all the evil works of the flesh, and when this great work of judgment is completed, all sinners along with their wickedness will have been totally destroyed—forever! In this essay, we will see that this process is not a pleasant one, nor will God spare any torment needed to accomplish His goal. The self-will and stubbornness of man will be completely broken by God’s righteous judgment, and what will come forth will be the “restoration of all things” (Acts 3:21) as every created thing will be brought to a full knowledge of God through the Cross of Jesus Christ. Phil. 2:10-11 says “that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” 1 Cor. 15:28 says that when this happens God will be “all in all.” There will not be a trace of sin or death in the entirety of God’s universe. What a day of rejoicing that will be!!

 

[elman]

There are mob bosses, criminals, murders, many un-regenerated people that know nothing about God who love their neighbor.

I don't think there are many murders who are very good at loving their neighbor.

 

[elman]

My strong contention is that the Church misunderstands the purpose of God’s judgments, and consequently, misrepresents His character to the world. Rather than viewing all of God’s judgments and punishments from the perspective of the “spiritual man,” Christians have instead interpreted them out of the “natural man”—a man desiring retribution against his enemies. Most of us have been taught that the “natural man” spoken of by Paul in 1 Cor. 2:14 applies only to unredeemed man, however, Christians are just as capable of thinking and walking in the natural (carnal) realm. One needs only to look at the current state of the church with all of its division and strife to see that this is true. This is why Paul exhorts us to “renew our minds” and to “walk in the Spirit.” It is for this very reason why I believe the Church has embraced the false doctrine of never-ending punishment. The “natural man” simply cannot understand the things of the Spirit, and so it is this same natural man who has ruled over the “new man” and prevented us from seeing the true purpose for God’s judgments.

Many read the Bible and see two contradictory views of God: first, the fiery God of judgment as described in the Old Testament, and second, the Christ of love as demonstrated in the New Testament. Some, confused by this apparent contradiction, reject the Bible as the inerrant Word of God. However, when we study the subject of God’s judgments, we must not take the “hard” passages by themselves, but instead, must study them in the light of God’s enduring love and mercy. Take them alone, and we have a god whose forgiveness and mercy is limited; but take them in light of God’s everlasting love and compassion and we see that there is no contradiction at all—the glove of God’s judgment fits perfectly over His hand of love.

The Bible declares “Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, THE LORD IS ONE.” This statement not only forms the basis of our monotheistic belief, but it also clearly declares that, in God, there is no variation or division. The number “one” is scripture means unity, united, undivided, or unfragmented. So when the Bible says, “God is one,” it is another way of saying that GOD CANNOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF. In Him there is no division, and since the Scriptures are the very Words of God, it also cannot contradict itself. For God to contradict Himself would mean that He is divided within Himself; for the Scriptures to contradict itself would bring discredit upon its inerrancy—both of which would be a fatal blow to the Christian faith. However, James says that in Him there is “no variableness, neither shadow of turning.” (Ja. 1:17) Praise His blessed name that there is no division found either in God or His life-breathed Word!

Let’s take one example—2 Thes. 1:8-9. Paul here tells us that God will punish those who obey not the gospel of Christ with everlasting destruction. Does he mean that these men will remain as sinners forever, to be tormented with never-ending punishments, OR could it be that, just like when Jesus did not mean we are to literally hate our loved ones, this passage does not speak of the eternal torture of men, but the everlasting destruction of the old nature and its evil deeds? (See note below) The Church would have us believe the former, but I contend that their interpretation of this and many like passages contradicts the myriad of passages that speak of God’s love and mercy. By no means do we intend to make light of God’s judgment or in any way lessen the need for it. We do not object to God’s judgment as it is taught in the Holy Scriptures. However, we do object (and reject) the “orthodox” teaching that does not take God’s love into consideration when discussing His judgments, but instead puts Him in the unscriptural position of forever turning His back on billions and billions of people never again to show them love or mercy. This is just as wrong as believing that we are to literally “hate” our parents, or that we are to literally eat the body of Christ. By the end of this article, I hope to show you that by interpreting the Scriptures in the “usual” way, our premise, “God loves the sinner, but hates the sin,” would be invalid.

Let there be no doubt that God will destroy the wicked and all his evil works (Ps. 145:20; Ps. 7:9), but how can God judge the sinner yet not contradict His love for all men? The answer to this question is so very simple, and yet has been grasped by so few: God will destroy all sinners by making them friends! Paul tells us that this is exactly what happened to us.

For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life; (Rom. 5:10)
For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life; (Rom. 5:10)

We were once by nature, children of wrath (Eph. 2:3), and the sons of disobedience, (Eph. 2:2), and in fact, in our flesh, we are still yet enemies of the Cross. (Phil. 3:18) But just as God brought us from the depths of our despair and is in the process of changing us from an enemy to a friend, think it not a strange thing for God, who is rich in mercy and partial to none, to do this same work in other men in the ages to come. Col. 1:20 says that Christ will reconcile all things (lit. remove all enmity between two parties) to the Father by the blood of His Cross. God’s purpose for judgment is not to torment eternally, but to destroy all the evil works of the flesh, and when this great work of judgment is completed, all sinners along with their wickedness will have been totally destroyed—forever! In this essay, we will see that this process is not a pleasant one, nor will God spare any torment needed to accomplish His goal. The self-will and stubbornness of man will be completely broken by God’s righteous judgment, and what will come forth will be the “restoration of all things” (Acts 3:21) as every created thing will be brought to a full knowledge of God through the Cross of Jesus Christ. Phil. 2:10-11 says “that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” 1 Cor. 15:28 says that when this happens God will be “all in all.” There will not be a trace of sin or death in the entirety of God’s universe. What a day of rejoicing that will be!!

I believe God will not lie. I therefore do not believe God ever sent lying spirits from His throne to do anything. I don't see the Bible which is a book written by men and in which the contents were chosen by men and copied by men and translated by men as deserving the same trust that I place in my Creator. Everything touched by man is flawed and that includes the Bible. God reveals Himself to us in many ways. The Bible is one of the ways, but not the only way and none of the ways in which we find God are easy and perfect. We find God if we seek and if we seek He will help us find HIm, but not perferly this side of the grave. Here we see Him through a dark glass but then we shall see Him more clearly. I believe God gifted all of us with mortal life and the ability to love others and if we do, we have the hope of God gifting us with eternal life with Him. I do not see any hope for the wicked if they do not love in this life and I see no obligation on the part of God to gift the wicked with eternal life. If He choses to do that, praise to Him, but I see no promises from Him that the wicked shall live. I do see statments about the wicked dying and facing destruction. If we are to have hope we should be about following the commands of Jesus and His command is love your neighbor.

 

[martymonster]

While God is the Judge and I am not, I can still tell the difference between Mother Theresa and Hitler. Yes we have all lied, but we are not all liars as Bill Clinton did under oath. Our all being liars does not make us equal with him, nor does it make him the same as those of us who respect the truth. God will separate the sheep from the goats. He is the only one that can. If your point were valid then there would be no wicked and no righteous people, but there are and that is not saying the wicked have never done a good things or that the righteous have never done an evil thing. It is saying however that we can have lifestyles that are loving and we can have lifestyles that are unloving and the scriptures I quote indicate that is possible and also indicate these things make a difference to the Creator.

elman!

At which point do you have the right to condem Hitler?
It was God who raised Hitler up for the very thing that He did!

God uses the wicked to judge His peopleb if you want scripture for that, go read the OT!

 

[martymonster]

I believe God will not lie. I therefore do not believe God ever sent lying spirits from His throne to do anything. I don't see the Bible which is a book written by men and in which the contents were chosen by men and copied by men and translated by men as deserving the same trust that I place in my Creator. Everything touched by man is flawed and that includes the Bible. God reveals Himself to us in many ways. The Bible is one of the ways, but not the only way and none of the ways in which we find God are easy and perfect. We find God if we seek and if we seek He will help us find HIm, but not perferly this side of the grave. Here we see Him through a dark glass but then we shall see Him more clearly. I believe God gifted all of us with mortal life and the ability to love others and if we do, we have the hope of God gifting us with eternal life with Him. I do not see any hope for the wicked if they do not love in this life and I see no obligation on the part of God to gift the wicked with eternal life. If He choses to do that, praise to Him, but I see no promises from Him that the wicked shall live. I do see statments about the wicked dying and facing destruction. If we are to have hope we should be about following the commands of Jesus and His command is love your neighbor.

So you just pick and choose which parts of the bible you wanna believe then eh?, which means you wanna believe that God destroys 90% of the people who have ever lived!

I suggest you go examine your belief system and your heart for the reasons for why you believe what you do!

 

[elman]

elman!

At which point do you have the right to condem Hitler?
It was God who raised Hitler up for the very thing that He did!

God uses the wicked to judge His peopleb if you want scripture for that, go read the OT!

Somewhere in the middle of the muder of all the Jews I had the right and perhaps the duty to say that is wrong. God did not kill all those Jews through Hitler. It was not the will of God that they be slaughtered. It was the will of God that Mother Theresa be loving to the people in India, but God did not force her to do that either. She made that choice and that is what made it a loving action. Hitler also made his choices without be forced to do so and that is what made it sin and wrong and unloving.