Annihilation=No Wrath

[FredVB]

I would say nonreaders know something. Of those who are yet nonbelievers it will be revealed that they have no excuse to not acknowledge God. Where the gospel has not reached believers have some obligation for the gospel to be spread that there will be abundant opportunity for it to be heard. Yet have opportunity to recognize one God is the Creator, who made us, and for any it could come onto their awareness that ŵe are separated from our Maker. Those who recognize it God will bring awareness of need to repent from ungodliness, which all have, and with that God who is just, and is merciful, will provide essential knowledge to any responding that much for their deliverance. Many just will not come to it, but it is possible for any.

 

[Jipsah]

Annihilation is a doctrine of Satan . Because if annihilation were true, then Hitler got the best of God . Hitler escaped justice . Hitler won.

What a load of rubbish. You'd make God a pitiless monster, and try to defend the idea by references to lesser monsters, in descending order beginning with Satan. So the only difference you see is only in who "wins" your Monster Derby.

Interesting religion you have there.
Not one I care to share.

 

[Jipsah]

All I know is annihilation is not the exact same thing as destruction.

destroy /dĭ-stroi′/

intransitive verb​

1. To break apart the structure of, render physically unusable, or cause to cease to exist as a distinguishable physical entity

annihilate /ə-nī′ə-lāt″/

intransitive verb​

1. To destroy completely.
   "The naval force was annihilated during the attack.

Doesn't seem to be much difference there.

 

[Jipsah]

Jesus cannot lie

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Not in your Bible, perhaps?

Or do you play the stupid "He can but He won't" game?

 

[FredVB]

To not give place to belief in annihilation is not at all requiring a belief in a "monster deity". Belief that there is fair justice that God was providing deliverance from, to all, is very reasonable without need for giving place to belief in annihilation. "Destroy" could be anything, and it can be a process. One could suffer loss of everything in this world, and call out, 'I am destroyed', reasonably, without having been annihilated. I believe the dead are raised but not to life. Their fair justice can have them suffer the consequences while not having gained life, to the right degree. I do not have to conclude they are burning up then, because of imagery that might be necessary being shown in the Bible, which would be there for what cannot be depicted of what we could not understand in this world. All not having life in Christ will then have the consequence of always being sorry about that, but there would never be repentance which they would never be capable of then.

 

[eleos1954]

To not give place to belief in annihilation is not at all requiring a belief in a "monster deity". Belief that there is fair justice that God was providing deliverance from, to all, is very reasonable without need for giving place to belief in annihilation. "Destroy" could be anything, and it can be a process. One could suffer loss of everything in this world, and call out, 'I am destroyed', reasonably, without having been annihilated. I believe the dead are raised but not to life. Their fair justice can have them suffer the consequences while not having gained life, to the right degree. I do not have to conclude they are burning up then, because of imagery that might be necessary being shown in the Bible, which would be there for what cannot be depicted of what we could not understand in this world. All not having life in Christ will then have the consequence of always being sorry about that, but there would never be repentance which they would never be capable of then.

The Scripture teaches that when Christ returns the earth and everything in it will be destroyed. The earth will “pass away” (Matthew 24:35; 2 Peter 3:10), “to come to an end and so no longer be there; perish.” The earth will have “fled away” (Revelation 20:11), which is a term that means “to cease being visible, vanish, disappear.”

It's about life (exist for eternity) or death (not to exist for eternity), there isn't any confusion about it and we most certainly can understand it.

Psalm 145:20 ESV
The Lord preserves all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy.

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Romans 6:23 ESV / 11 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

For the wages of sin is death (final), but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 ESV​

They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Malachi 4:1 ESV​

“For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the Lord of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch (ie no life whatsoever).

1 John 3:8 ESV​

Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

2 Peter 2:6 ESV​

If by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

Isaiah 1:28 ESV​

But rebels and sinners shall be broken together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.

If something is destroyed/consumed it ceases to exist.

2nd Peter 3

10But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare.

11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness 12as you anticipate and hasten the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be destroyed by fire and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

The 2nd death if final complete destruction of the lost, including satan and the fallen angels.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Seems to me that the notion of man's existence has gone way past reality. If God is our creator, then our existence is entirely dependent on his use and assessment of us. We are ontologically nothing without him.

We are looking at this question backwards, as though our notions are of any substance.

("The babble we think we mean" —CS Lewis)

 

[Grip Docility]

Seems to me that the notion of man's existence has gone way past reality. If God is our creator, then our existence is entirely dependent on his use and assessment of us. We are ontologically nothing without him.

We are looking at this question backwards, as though our notions are of any substance.

("The babble we think we mean" —CS Lewis)

Sir, a stance humble to the fact that Heavenly matters are a genuine mystery?!? Am I reading you correctly?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Sir, a stance humble to the fact that Heavenly matters are a genuine mystery?!? Am I reading you correctly?

HA! I'd like to think so, but the 'indomitable' spirit of man ever indulges in every opportunity to lift himself up above his creator. —At least that has been my experience. But, yes, what God is and what he has done is transcendent, and even of that, that we attribute to God, we pretend to have a good grasp!

But yes, I could always be wrong. I am left going with what seems most reasonable according to scripture, logic, intuition, experience and the inclinations of the Spirit of God. And pray that my words convey some of the joy of being laid low and at His mercy.

 

[Grip Docility]

HA! I'd like to think so, but the 'indomitable' spirit of man ever indulges in every opportunity to lift himself up above his creator. —At least that has been my experience. But, yes, what God is and what he has done is transcendent, and even of that, that we attribute to God, we pretend to have a good grasp!

But yes, I could always be wrong. I am left going with what seems most reasonable according to scripture, logic, intuition, experience and the inclinations of the Spirit of God. And pray that my words convey some of the joy of being laid low and at His mercy.

One could call these words sweet incense to the nostrils of God.

 

[BurningBush84]

My conscience, my flesh, my sinful nature would LOVE to believe in Annihilation theology,,, in fact , it CRAVES Annihilation Theology,,, my sinful nature craves Annihilation Theology...

Why ???? Because it means my sins have no eternal consequences for me personally. Annihilation theology gives me a license to sin.
The Annihilatied will not KNOW what they are missing(Heaven) because they don't exist . The Annihilatied will never have to ENDURE any eternal punishment. The Annihilatied are basically Resting In Peace , which is a reward, not a punishment ,,,,did God reward Hitler with Resting In Peace forever ? ?? If Hitler believed in ECT, he never would have committed suicide, nor would ANYONE,,, people commit suicide because Satan tricks them into believing suicide will end their pain,,,, but for most suicidals ,,, suicide sends them to ECT
(Luke 16:19-31)
.

 

[Jipsah]

The Annihilatied are basically Resting In Peace

Noi, the annihilated aren't anything at all, and never were. They never existed. God never knew them, i.e., they don't exist in space and time. They've been erased, expunged, and the results of their sins have ceased to exist with them. There's no one and nothing there to "rest".

, which is a reward, not a punishment

It is neither. Someone has to exist to be either punished ot rewarded. The annihilated don't exist, and never existed. You're wanting to punish someone who never was there in the first place.

,,,,did God reward Hitler

Hitler who? When he's gone, his evil dies with him. You'd apparently like to keep both around so you can hate them.

If Hitler believed in ECT, he never would have committed suicide

And in your thought, both Hitler and his crimes are enshrind forever in hell. Congratulations, you've granted them both eternal life and eternal existence.

, nor would ANYONE,,, people commit suicide

Suicide being the Ultimate Evil, I suppose.

because Satan tricks them into believing suicide will end their pain,

Because he knows that he can enjoy their suffering forever?

,,, but for most suicidals ,,, suicide sends them to ECT

Yep, if you can't endure whatever you're suffering here, just wait, God's gonna punish you forever for trying to escape it. Yeah, softies like me might put a suffering animal out its misery. But in your view, God so loved the world that He's gonna torture even those whose crime was trying to escape earthly torment by tormenting them forever.

No "Father, forgive them..." in your religion, is there?

 

[Mark Quayle]

If Hitler believed in ECT, he never would have committed suicide, nor would ANYONE,,, people commit suicide because Satan tricks them into believing suicide will end their pain,,,, but for most suicidals ,,, suicide sends them to ECT

I understand the sentiment, but the nature of sin will do anything to spite God. You probably have heard of people saying, "If I am to go to hell, so be it!" In fact, I think, this is a little how Satan's frustration and hatred for God continues. He well knows that everything he does against God is by God's own design furthering God's purposes! God is using Satan's will against Satan's purposes, for God's glory. (Note Romans 9:14-24 and Acts 2:23). And he knows he is condemned by his own deeds and intentions. Yet he refuses to ask for mercy. He WILL not. And what he knows to be inevitable only drives his hate all the harder.

But on the flipside, there are those who in desperation do any awful thing to themselves to avoid sinking further into depravity. Not saying all suicides are this, but there are some, I think, who throw themselves on God's mercy in this kind of awful desperation. I wouldn't be too quick to condemn them.

 

[Mark Quayle]

One could call these words sweet incense to the nostrils of God.

The pleasure of that thought tears my heart open, but the nature of the "old man" who will do anything but submit, and rebels for the mere purpose of rebelling, is all too obviously still at work for me to claim such a thing. Thank God for his grace; I need him so badly! Even in the midst of such thoughts, with tears, I comfort myself for my 'humble' desire for him! Augh! —May God have mercy.

 

[Diamond72]

If God is our creator, then our existence is entirely dependent on his use and assessment of us.

Our existence depends on the Laws of Physics.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Our existence depends on the Laws of Physics.

Even if the Laws of Physics kill us, our existence is fact, though our atoms be rearranged and scattered across the universe. God invented both fact and the Laws of Physics, or he is not God.

 

[Diamond72]

Even if the Laws of Physics kill us, our existence is fact, though our atoms be rearranged and scattered across the universe. God invented both fact and the Laws of Physics, or he is not God.

People believe you can scatter our atoms but God will bring them all back together again. What about my daughter in Heaven. She never made it to the womb, so she never had an earthly body. She has a body in Heaven though. A body that looks like our earthly body.

 

[Mark Quayle]

People believe you can scatter our atoms but God will bring them all back together again. What about my daughter in Heaven. She never made it to the womb, so she never had an earthly body. She has a body in Heaven though. A body that looks like our earthly body.

What we are, and what (I expect) your daughter is, is what God had in mind for each of us when he made each of us.

 

[Diamond72]

What we are, and what (I expect) your daughter is, is what God had in mind for each of us when he made each of us.

Hopefully we are the person God wants us to be. Sometimes I feel like they are trying to put a round peg in a square hole and it just don't fit.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Hopefully we are the person God wants us to be. Sometimes I feel like they are trying to put a round peg in a square hole and it just don't fit.

Yep. But what I mean is not about our performance, but with the end result —the person we will be when glorified, when we see him as HE is. It is for THAT that we are made. THAT is the person that God spoke into existence at the beginning. From the point of view of time, we are not yet what we will be. We aren't yet complete persons.