An Empirical Theory Of God (2)

[mzungu]

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of Christian *panentheism*.

Actually Christian atheism makes a lot of sense to me considering that as a way of life it suits me more even though I do not believe in deities. Of course I could not live in a fundamentalist Christian society but the European model is more to my liking. People associate themselves with Christianity without having any conflicts with science. The best of both worlds. I can have my Christmas and eat my pudding too

 

[madaz]

The best of both worlds. I can have my Christmas and eat my pudding too

 

[Michael]

Actually Christian atheism makes a lot of sense to me considering that as a way of life it suits me more even though I do not believe in deities. Of course I could not live in a fundamentalist Christian society but the European model is more to my liking. People associate themselves with Christianity without having any conflicts with science. The best of both worlds. I can have my Christmas and eat my pudding too

Well, I'm certainly glad that atheists can appreciate Jesus too.

 

[madaz]

Well, I'm certainly glad that atheists can appreciate Jesus too.

Yes we can, but in a the same sense as billions of muslims.

We reject his divinity, we reject his being son of god, we reject his resurrection and we reject him being savior/redeemer. But we yes can appreciate Jesus.

 

[Michael]

Yes we can, but in a the same sense as billions of muslims.

Actually, all other dogma aside they revere Jesus as a great prophet of God.

We reject his divinity, we reject his being son of god,

FYI, we are all the sons and the daughters of God, and we are all capable of experiencing the same relationship with the "Father" that he had according to Jesus in John 17.

we reject his resurrection

Out of curiosity, do you reject this account as well?

Anthony Yahle, Ohio Man, Comes Back To Life After Being Declared Dead

and we reject him being savior/redeemer. But we yes can appreciate Jesus.

Maybe so, but not nearly as much as I can.

 

[madaz]

Out of curiosity, do you reject this account as well?

Anthony Yahle, Ohio Man, Comes Back To Life After Being Declared Dead

I will read the link above when I have something better than my phone to peruse it with, but going by the title I will initially say yes.

For what it's worth though, unlike most muslims I do accept Jesus was crucified.

 

[madaz]

Out of curiosity, do you reject this account as well?

Anthony Yahle, Ohio Man, Comes Back To Life After Being Declared Dead

Hi Michael,

I have just perused the above link (and other websites relating to this story) and for your curiosity I accept it however I reject it as evidence to support resurrection.

 

[madaz]

Jesus seems to be a bit like McDonald's, billions served and growing.

Growing? Out of curiosity do you accept this?

Faith Change: Islam rapidly grows as Christianity declines in UK - YouTube

 

[bhsmte]

Actually, all other dogma aside they revere Jesus as a great prophet of God.

FYI, we are all the sons and the daughters of God, and we are all capable of experiencing the same relationship with the "Father" that he had according to Jesus in John 17.

Out of curiosity, do you reject this account as well?

Anthony Yahle, Ohio Man, Comes Back To Life After Being Declared Dead

Maybe so, but not nearly as much as I can.

Michael,

Medicine occasionally will have a case like this, where someone appears to be clinically dead, when in fact they are not - they lose detectable vital signs and then they return.

These events are not proof of a God intervening in these cases, while the same God decides to let millions of children suffer and die a horrible death each and every year, while their parents pray endlessly for God's help.

 

[bhsmte]

Growing? Out of curiosity do you accept this?

Faith Change: Islam rapidly grows as Christianity declines in UK - YouTube

Christianity and belief in God in general, has declined in Europe and other advanced non-USA nations quite a bit in the last 30-40 years. Culture and political pressures artificially inflate the number who claim to be christian in the United States, IMO.

 

[madaz]

Christianity and belief in God in general, has declined in Europe and other advanced non-USA nations quite a bit in the last 30-40 years. Culture and political pressures artificially inflate the number who claim to be christian in the United States, IMO.

More info on the US figures here-

Rapid decline of Christian influence in America | Fox News Video

 

[Michael]

Michael,

Medicine occasionally will have a case like this, where someone appears to be clinically dead, when in fact they are not - they lose detectable vital signs and then they return.

The thing is, if you study events like near death experiences, they happen to lots of people, theists and atheists alike, even folks like Carl Jung. Even trained psychologists that have such experiences treat them as 'real' and important experiences, as do the vast majority of those that experience them.

These events are not proof of a God intervening in these cases, while the same God decides to let millions of children suffer and die a horrible death each and every year, while their parents pray endlessly for God's help.

We all get called back to God, sooner or later, almost always leaving grieving loved ones behind. Life itself is a precious gift, but our times in form are *always* of a limited duration. Every moment is precious.

 

[Michael]

Growing? Out of curiosity do you accept this?

Faith Change: Islam rapidly grows as Christianity declines in UK - YouTube

Sure, of course. As I've noted however, Islam honors Jesus. I'm afraid from my (Universalist) perspective, it's not a problem, and in terms of those those honor Jesus, I fail to see how it helps your case. Islam actually embraces Jesus as the "Messiah"of Judaism. It doesn't *exclude* Jesus, Islam *embraces* Jesus, albeit not *exactly* as I do. So?

 

[madaz]

I fail to see how it helps your case.

I didn't post that video to help my case whatever my case is, I posted to rebut your assertion that christianitity is akin to McDonalds customer base, " growing".

 

[madaz]

These events are not proof of a God intervening in these cases, while the same God decides to let millions of children suffer and die a horrible death each and every year, while their parents pray endlessly for God's help.

 

[Michael]

I didn't post that video to help my case whatever my case is, I posted to rebut your assertion that christianitity is akin to McDonalds customer base, " growing".

I'm pretty sure if you go back and check I said that *Jesus* (not necessarily any specific religion) was like McDonald's. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Michael]

Um, I hate to break it to you, but we as humans have been blessed. The Earth is fully capable of feeding the whole of humanity. Were it not for our own human greed, and lust for power, humans need not starve, nor go without modern medicines. It's own selfishness that you should be blaming, not God.

 

[madaz]

I'm pretty sure if you go back and check I said that *Jesus* (not necessarily any specific religion) was like McDonald's. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

So the point you are making is-

Despite the decline of christianity, followers of Jesus are growing in number.

Is that your point? Correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[madaz]

It's own selfishness that you should be blaming, not God.

Michael please jog my memory and post my quote blaming god, I don't recall blaming it.

 

[Michael]

So the point you are making is-

Despite the decline of christianity, followers of Jesus are growing in number.

Is that your point? Correct me if I'm wrong?

I'm saying that 2000 years ago, a total of maybe only a few thousand people had ever heard of Jesus or his teachings, whereas today he has more than three billion followers. "Religions" change over time, but Christ's teachings are eternal IMO, as is the impact of those teachings.

Today I'm a *Universalist Christian", much like Origen. Like the Christian religion itself, my "Christian/religious" beliefs have actually changed over time, but my love for Jesus has not changed, and his love for us all is eternal.