America

[98cwitr]

Slavery was not a good thing but you forget the north did not precipitate or the west. why is it everything in the U.S. comes back to slavery. The U.S was always head to a better place it always had people who were willing to fight for what was right. Now however, people think what is right is to take God out of everything and push worship of him back to the closets.

Wow...and you criticize me for "taking in too much bull"...educate yourself dude. The North did participate in slavery well up through the civil war and afterward

https://www.boundless.com/u-s-histo...slavery-in-the-colonies/slavery-in-the-north/

History of slavery in Maryland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Slave and free states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shall I bring up the Salem witch trials then? How about Indian relations? Let's end with the industrial revolution and then revert to the age on enlightenment?

I have to agree with you though, pushing worship into the shadows is just the demise of this country...and of us.

 

[now faith]

Yay, time to rewrite history.


It is a bit more involved than that, there is the fallout from the removal and reinstatement of the British Monarchy the Puritans found themselves on the wrong side of history, with their preference for the Geneva Bible and objection to the Book of Common Prayer among other things they were not overly welcome in England which under the monarchy again was pushing to make the KJV the only available Bible in the common tongue and a rigidity in worship and prayer through the use of BCP.


That's an irrelevance, and a rather contrived one at that, if the first book that Congress printed was the Qu'ran it would have no effect on whether America was Christian or not. A nation simply cannot have a religious affiliation while condemning theocracy as a misguided concept.


I would actually think that the extinguishing of the Church in general to make way for a nationalism which is so virulent to be as deadly and self-destructive as Catharism would have been more of concern to God than merely the protection of "'Murica land o' God" as now faith said God is not a respecter of persons, I would go further to state that God is not concerned with nations but rather with his Church.

One thing that is difficult to refute,in its short history America has risen to the world's most powerful nation.

Unlike other empires who's age far exceeds America historically.

The Geneva Bible reads very similar to king James,what I have compared was identical.

Wycliffe in my opinion was a true reformer who dared to expose the Vulgate.

But we all have views about why historically events transpired.

My view is that Americans put God first and the great prosperity of this country is the result.

The puritan ideology was flawed by Calvin's influence.

Slavery was a condition of their flaw,as with the inhumane treatment of the native Americans.
Calvinism teaches some races are predestined by nature to Hell.

Thus cruelty is not much different between animals and certain people.

It is a mentality left over from Rome.

Never the less America moved away from the reformed ideals by the civil war thank God.

 

[98cwitr]

Prosperity gospel is Satan's work

 

[RDKirk]

oh ok you want to judge the settlers as not Christian because of the actions of some, funny.

Yeah you forget they were fleeing the church of England.

Some were:

Massachusetts
Connecticut
New Hampshire

Colonies that were Anglican (Church of England) include:
Virginia
New York
Maryland (initially chartered as Catholic, however)
North Carolina
South Carolina

Colonies that had no established religion and were established for financial reasons or even given by the King of England in friendship or for political purposes:
Rhode Island (chartered specifically for absolute freedom of religion)
Delaware
Georgia
Pennsylvania
New Jersey

So that's only 3 out of 13 that were "fleeing the Church of England."

Regarding Rhode Island, did you know that Roger Williams--the man who founded Rhode Island--was also the man who founded the first Baptist congregation in America? He was also the man who originally coined the phrase "wall of separation between Church and State." And he founded Rhode Island specifically as a colony that had total freedom of religion. He even specified freedom for atheists and Muslims.

And did you know that Baptists today still carry on his tradition for the separation of church and state? Take, for instance, the most current Southern Baptist Faith and Message:

XVII. Religious Liberty
God alone is Lord of what is right and wrong. Man’s sense of what is right and wrong is free from the rules and commandments of men. These rules and commandments may be different from His Word. They may not be found in His Word.

Church and state should be separate. The state owes protection to every church. The state owes complete freedom to every church in seeking spiritual matters. In giving this freedom, no religious group or denomination should be given any special treatment by the state. The national government was planned by God. It is the duty of Christians to give faithful obedience in all things that are not against the known will of God.

The church should not expect the national government to do its work. The gospel of Christ considers only spiritual methods to reach its purposes. The state has no right to require punishment for religious beliefs of any kind. The state has no right to require taxes for the support of any form of religion.

A free church in a free state is the Christian ideal. This suggests the right of free communication with God by all men. This also suggests the right to start and spread religious opinions without trouble from the government.

Or that the first laws were taken from the Bible.

People keep saying that, but are consistently unable to quote a US law that didn't already exist among the Graeco-Romans or was invented well after the canon was closed.

I guess Jews were not Jews because they did some bad things too.

But the first Jewish laws really were taken from the bible.

So by your judgement you are not a Christian if you do bad things, or if people around you do bad things? is that right?

The book of James is telling me that if you are a Christian you should be bearing the fruit of the Spirit. If the US as a nation is Christian, then US national policies should exhibit the fruit of the Spirit. But it never has.

Now, many individual Christians who happen to be in America have exhibited the fruit of the Spirit, but the nation as a nation or the government of the nation? No.

Now I am sure you have done bad things. See what happens when you pass judgement you judge your self. for the measure you measure to a man shall be measured to you.

You're not suggesting that Paul lied in 1 Corinthians 5, are you?

You don't know but it used to be prayer every morning in school. My Dad was speaking of this to me the other day. I said to him Dad you know many young people today do not even know of the Christian back ground of the USA. He said really I thought everyone new that, we were taught this in schools. I said nope, He was amazed. You been taking in to much bull and now you don't know what is truth or not.

I was in school back when there was prayer every day. Yes, that was back when schools were racially segregated so that children were taught that Colossians 3 and Galatians 3 didn't really mean what they said. Funny how those fervent school-prayers didn't want black kids and white kids praying in school together.

 

[RDKirk]

One thing that is difficult to refute,in its short history America has risen to the world's most powerful nation.

Only the most recent "world's most powerful nation."

Unlike other empires who's age far exceeds America historically.

Which may make America's tenure as the "world's most powerful nation" the shortest ever.

 

[Keachian]

One thing that is difficult to refute,in its short history America has risen to the world's most powerful nation.

Yes, through greed and other wholly unChristian tactics and you're nearly bankrupt because of it.

Unlike other empires who's age far exceeds America historically.

Imperialism is dead, this is the age of globalisation and America is not coping

The Geneva Bible reads very similar to king James,what I have compared was identical.

But it has the advantage of not being the Political Propaganda piece that the KJV is and will continue to be.

Wycliffe in my opinion was a true reformer who dared to expose the Vulgate.

Wycliffe translated from the Vulgate, the problem was not what he translated from but that he translated into the tongue of the people, I find Jerome to be far more radical in terms of translation source than Wycliffe.

But we all have views about why historically events transpired.

My view is that Americans put God first and the great prosperity of this country is the result.

That would be reactive on God's part, in all things God is proactive.

The puritan ideology was flawed by Calvin's influence.

Said the Pentecostal to the Calvinist...

Slavery was a condition of their flaw,as with the inhumane treatment of the native Americans.
Calvinism teaches some races are predestined by nature to Hell.

No, that would be a misapplication of Calvinistic Soteriology to make an apologetic for racial selectivity into bonded servitude esp. slavery.

Thus cruelty is not much different between animals and certain people.

It is a mentality left over from Rome.

Never the less America moved away from the reformed ideals by the civil war thank God.

The First Two Awakenings were spearheaded by preachers who at the very least held to Reformed views of Sanctification and Holiness the move away from these views is troubling to be honest especially in the current Christian culture that wants to recreate these great moves of God.

 

[Bluelion]

Wow...and you criticize me for "taking in too much bull"...educate yourself dude. The North did participate in slavery well up through the civil war and afterward

https://www.boundless.com/u-s-histo...slavery-in-the-colonies/slavery-in-the-north/

History of slavery in Maryland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Slave and free states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shall I bring up the Salem witch trials then? How about Indian relations? Let's end with the industrial revolution and then revert to the age on enlightenment?

I have to agree with you though, pushing worship into the shadows is just the demise of this country...and of us.

tell you what I am taking American history yet again so give me 8 weeks and I will do a posts based on what my college is teaching. It is history from Christian view point. So i can reference all you like then.

However wikipedia is NOT a creditable source of information and in not allowed as a reference in any college course. It was long ago it was on the news students failing the course for sourcing them on there final and their facts being wrong. Hence it is not allowed in college.

We do agree pushing God out will be the down fall of America. Oh and to PA my history class is called American history, not U.S, America is a perfectly acceptable term when talking about the USA, see the last part there the A stands for America.

So 98 we do agree and that was my point. I am not the best at history nor do I claim to be, but I know the country was founded on Christian principles. There did use to be praying in schools, We put God on our money, we put him in the pledge of allegiance "One nation under God", and we put the ten commandments in our court houses, congress prays before each session which they are trying to do away with. You can not deny the Christian influence.

Sorry about the harsh words,PA and standing tall were getting to me, your not the one I am angry at. Those two have been following my threads around for weeks spouting crap.

Peace and Love
blu

 

[Bluelion]

Some were:

Massachusetts
Connecticut
New Hampshire

Colonies that were Anglican (Church of England) include:
Virginia
New York
Maryland (initially chartered as Catholic, however)
North Carolina
South Carolina

Colonies that had no established religion and were established for financial reasons or even given by the King of England in friendship or for political purposes:
Rhode Island (chartered specifically for absolute freedom of religion)
Delaware
Georgia
Pennsylvania
New Jersey

So that's only 3 out of 13 that were "fleeing the Church of England."

Regarding Rhode Island, did you know that Roger Williams--the man who founded Rhode Island--was also the man who founded the first Baptist congregation in America? He was also the man who originally coined the phrase "wall of separation between Church and State." And he founded Rhode Island specifically as a colony that had total freedom of religion. He even specified freedom for atheists and Muslims.

And did you know that Baptists today still carry on his tradition for the separation of church and state? Take, for instance, the most current Southern Baptist Faith and Message:





People keep saying that, but are consistently unable to quote a US law that didn't already exist among the Graeco-Romans or was invented well after the canon was closed.



But the first Jewish laws really were taken from the bible.



The book of James is telling me that if you are a Christian you should be bearing the fruit of the Spirit. If the US as a nation is Christian, then US national policies should exhibit the fruit of the Spirit. But it never has.

Now, many individual Christians who happen to be in America have exhibited the fruit of the Spirit, but the nation as a nation or the government of the nation? No.



You're not suggesting that Paul lied in 1 Corinthians 5, are you?



I was in school back when there was prayer every day. Yes, that was back when schools were racially segregated so that children were taught that Colossians 3 and Galatians 3 didn't really mean what they said. Funny how those fervent school-prayers didn't want black kids and white kids praying in school together.

That was educational. Yeah the country had some deep issues about race, I see this as satans influence. Friend of mine who was a black man during those times, he has passed on, said to me "no man is a racist that satan did not enter his heart and confuse his mind." Some times good people do bad things, it is there flesh nature, but i don't think any one can speak to whether they were saved people or not, but God alone is their judge.

 

[New Legacy]

Are you kidding the country was founded on Christian principles. The people came here to escape the the church of England which said they could not have Bibles, so Congress first book it printed was the Bible KJV, Funny how younger people don't know the history of America and its Christians roots.

God was with us during both world wars other wise you would be speaking German right now.

Do you believe the Bill of Rights is based on Christian principles or a series of grievances?

 

[Bluelion]

I would also like to point out there has been another school shooting. People say it is not because we took God out of schools or push God out. When I was a kid in the 80's last thing we ever worried about was some one shooting up the school. It just did not happen, So people can say it always has been it has not. This country is all about greed now, values are not being taught in school any more and parents are to busy working 80 weeks to give their kid the next i pad.

Some one said you can judge a society by its prisoners, if that is true we are in big trouble. I think we can also judge society by its kids. Kids are scream for help, and we are to busy with our life to help them. When you crate a world for adults, the children are lost in that world. That is the difference, when I was a child adults worked hard to protect us children. You did not see cursing on TV, you did not see nude people on TV, you did not see graphic sex scenes. Blood and gore were limited. video Games were about two Italian guys saving a princess. We played in the streets with out fear of being run over, kidnapped, or murdered. We got in to trouble every chance we got, but thanks to adults there was only so much we could get into. That is not the world today.

 

[standingtall]

So you have falsely judged me. Thou shall not bare false witness.

This statement, along with your "Quest" posts is incredibly ironic coupled with the judgmental attitude you have displayed since starting to post in this forum.

Disagreeing with someone and judging someone are two different things. You need to learn the difference. In addition, "baring false witness" and "judging" are also different, so your 9th Commandment jab at me is totally irrelevant.

I have serious disagreements with your posts, but not once have I judged you and condemned you by accusing you of not being a Christian....which is something you have done at least once.

Sorry about the harsh words,PA and standing tall were getting to me, your not the one I am angry at. Those two have been following my threads around for weeks spouting crap.

Angry much?

We're just trying to clean up the crap pile you're creating with your nauseating historical inaccuracies and butchering of the English language. You're trying to make yourself look educated and intelligent, but you consistently appear to be quite the opposite.

 

[RDKirk]

That was educational. Yeah the country had some deep issues about race, I see this as satans influence. Friend of mine who was a black man during those times, he has passed on, said to me "no man is a racist that satan did not enter his heart and confuse his mind." Some times good people do bad things, it is there flesh nature, but i don't think any one can speak to whether they were saved people or not, but God alone is their judge.

Actually, prior to the 1800s, nobody in the Christian world had ever posed a theological argument for the support of slavery. Slavery existed like prostitution as an evil not-yet-eradicated. Although a couple of popes had given permission for slavery to continue, their arguments were based on "right of kings" issues, not on theological issues. When significant figures of the Church of England were discovered involved in the slave trade, that was as huge a scandal then as it is today to find a minister involved in pedophilia.

Up into the 1800s, nobody was using the bible to justify slavery. Slavery was known to all as an evil that men did for money. During the debates by the Founding Fathers over slavery, it was recognized as a evil even by the representatives of the slaveholding states...but they admitted they were not yet ready to give up that sin.

By the early 1800s, it had been recognized everywhere in the Christian world that slavery was not just a sin, but that it was time for Christianity to finally abolish it.

Then something quite sudden and strange happened. You can see it in the writings of Thomas Jefferson over the years, moving from one side of the issue ("slavery is evil") to the other ("slavery is a good thing").

Denominations split up over the issue. The American Baptist convention had always been Abolitionist--they even forbade members to have hired domestic servants. When pressured, the slaveholding Baptists in the South created the Souther Baptist Convention specifically for the purpose of continuing to hold their slaves. Slaveholding Methodists did the same thing. Slaveholding Catholics in the south pointedly rejected instructions from the Pope to abandon slavery.

That was when those people cobbled together a theological justification for slavery, one so patently crude and erroneous that a ten-year-old could see through it, especially with regard to how slavery was practiced in the American South.

It was like how Satan would interpret scripture for his own purposes. I personally think a principality of Satan came to roost over the American South (and is still there).

 

[psalms 91]

Wow attacking another poster because his understanding may not be the same as yours? Not surprising at all around here.

 

[Bluelion]

This statement, along with your "Quest" posts is incredibly ironic coupled with the judgmental attitude you have displayed since starting to post in this forum.

Disagreeing with someone and judging someone are two different things. You need to learn the difference. In addition, "baring false witness" and "judging" are also different, so your 9th Commandment jab at me is totally irrelevant.

I have serious disagreements with your posts, but not once have I judged you and condemned you by accusing you of not being a Christian....which is something you have done at least once.



Angry much?

We're just trying to clean up the crap pile you're creating with your nauseating historical inaccuracies and butchering of the English language. You're trying to make yourself look educated and intelligent, but you consistently appear to be quite the opposite.

funny I have never seen you post a positive thing in any thread, and again you attack me and insult me. When did I said you were not a Christian, show the prof. You falsely accuse me yet again and yes that is baring False witness sense you are saying I said something I did not. It is you who do not understand. Your a troll that is all.

I also find it interesting you and Pa both attack my quest post which was a Good post with a very Christian goal. You attack Good things and post negativity. At least i try to Love everyone. You need to look at your own fruit you produce, but I understand you feel good about you as long as you are putting other down. As long as you point the finger at some one else and attack them you don't have to look at your self and face the truth. Sad really.

 

[Bluelion]

Actually, prior to the 1800s, nobody in the Christian world had ever posed a theological argument for the support of slavery. Slavery existed like prostitution as an evil not-yet-eradicated. Although a couple of popes had given permission for slavery to continue, their arguments were based on "right of kings" issues, not on theological issues. When significant figures of the Church of England were discovered involved in the slave trade, that was as huge a scandal then as it is today to find a minister involved in pedophilia.

Up into the 1800s, nobody was using the bible to justify slavery. Slavery was known to all as an evil that men did for money. During the debates by the Founding Fathers over slavery, it was recognized as a evil even by the representatives of the slaveholding states...but they admitted they were not yet ready to give up that sin.

By the early 1800s, it had been recognized everywhere in the Christian world that slavery was not just a sin, but that it was time for Christianity to finally abolish it.

Then something quite sudden and strange happened. You can see it in the writings of Thomas Jefferson over the years, moving from one side of the issue ("slavery is evil") to the other ("slavery is a good thing").

Denominations split up over the issue. The American Baptist convention had always been Abolitionist--they even forbade members to have hired domestic servants. When pressured, the slaveholding Baptists in the South created the Souther Baptist Convention specifically for the purpose of continuing to hold their slaves. Slaveholding Methodists did the same thing. Slaveholding Catholics in the south pointedly rejected instructions from the Pope to abandon slavery.

That was when those people cobbled together a theological justification for slavery, one so patently crude and erroneous that a ten-year-old could see through it, especially with regard to how slavery was practiced in the American South.

It was like how Satan would interpret scripture for his own purposes. I personally think a principality of Satan came to roost over the American South (and is still there).

so basically back then Christianity was getting it start, and it was much like today with churches, who were places of God and those that were false. Today being west borough baptist church to name one.

 

[98cwitr]

tell you what I am taking American history yet again so give me 8 weeks and I will do a posts based on what my college is teaching. It is history from Christian view point. So i can reference all you like then.

However wikipedia is NOT a creditable source of information and in not allowed as a reference in any college course. It was long ago it was on the news students failing the course for sourcing them on there final and their facts being wrong. Hence it is not allowed in college.

We do agree pushing God out will be the down fall of America. Oh and to PA my history class is called American history, not U.S, America is a perfectly acceptable term when talking about the USA, see the last part there the A stands for America.

So 98 we do agree and that was my point. I am not the best at history nor do I claim to be, but I know the country was founded on Christian principles. There did use to be praying in schools, We put God on our money, we put him in the pledge of allegiance "One nation under God", and we put the ten commandments in our court houses, congress prays before each session which they are trying to do away with. You can not deny the Christian influence.

Sorry about the harsh words,PA and standing tall were getting to me, your not the one I am angry at. Those two have been following my threads around for weeks spouting crap.

Peace and Love
blu

I don't deny that this country has been influenced by Christianity, I do deny it was founded on Christian principles.

I might have come off a little harsh myself...my apologies!

Let's lighten things up...

 

[Vanguard PCD]

Umm why did i make that post because i felt like it now deal with it.

Per CF posting guidelines:

Threads may be closed under the following circumstances, at staff discretion (this list is not exhaustive):

1. When a question has been answered authoritatively and definitively.
2. When duplicate or redundant threads are submitted.
3. When a thread is not in keeping with the intent of the forum.

Regards,
Letalis

The only reason why you made duplicate posts on numerous forums within this site is because you are trolling; we are not fooled.

Oh, and as far as ganging up on you...you are the one that came at me first. Eye for an eye.

 

[Bluelion]

Per CF posting guidelines:

Threads may be closed under the following circumstances, at staff discretion (this list is not exhaustive):

1. When a question has been answered authoritatively and definitively.
2. When duplicate or redundant threads are submitted.
3. When a thread is not in keeping with the intent of the forum.

Regards,
Letalis

The only reason why you made duplicate posts on numerous forums within this site is because you are trolling; we are not fooled.

Oh, and as far as ganging up on you...you are the one that came at me first. Eye for an eye.

Oh accuse me great accuser Funny I have many more post than you.

Eye for an eye huh that what Jesus preached do you even know the meaning. Funny I went in the non denominational section to your lucifer post and asked for your forgiveness even said I was sorry for it. but you don't forgive do you, so you do not have forgiveness, at least that is what Jesus says right, we are forgiven as we forgive? Hows that for an eye for an eye?

I think you have made it your personal mission to try to get me kicked off the forum, that is why you are crying troll, right mods can search my post. Seems to be a double standard though when I attack people harshly which would shut you up my post are quickly deleted, yet 3 or more people can gang up and attack me and troll all my post and nothing is done. Interesting. well you know what Jesus said they called me satan they will say worse about you, rejoice for your reward is great. I guess i am doing something right after all to be attack so much I mean after all if i was from this world it would love me, at least that is what Jesus says.

Funny how you attack my post called quest spreading peace and love and yet you post Jesus is Lucifer a term reserved for the devil, which Jews consider to be the name of satan before the fall. Do you even know what Good is. well better stop because if not this will be deleted. It is easy to attack someone with their hands tied, such is an act of a coward. I guess i put you on ignore like the others because after all you can say anything, yet I must not attack anyone.

 

[now faith]

Prosperity gospel is Satan's work

Well tell that to God,

I here there are streets of gold and many mansions in Heaven.

Some people would be more comfortable in Hell,because their nonsense is Hell on earth.

3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.


Careful when you read this,it's got the Word prosper in it.

Be afraid it just may be about prosperity.

 

[now faith]

Per CF posting guidelines:

Threads may be closed under the following circumstances, at staff discretion (this list is not exhaustive):

1. When a question has been answered authoritatively and definitively.
2. When duplicate or redundant threads are submitted.
3. When a thread is not in keeping with the intent of the forum.

Regards,
Letalis

The only reason why you made duplicate posts on numerous forums within this site is because you are trolling; we are not fooled.

Oh, and as far as ganging up on you...you are the one that came at me first. Eye for an eye.

What about a non member teaching in a congressional forum?

He is not a troll,he is here to learn.

So a little kindness and patience,would help rather than scoffing and running him out.

It shows a self righteous immaturity in a Christian who demeans their brethren.