America

[98cwitr]

My facts come from a college history course on American history not the internet. I already told you wikipedia is not a creditable source.

I guess we really have nothing to talk about, you want to be right, judge a group of people you never met and never talked to. Fact is disease wiped out millions of Indians not war. The Indians got along with the pilgrims and other Christian settlements I already explain that it was those seeking a profit who treated the Indians poorly.

So really i think we are done here because it does not matter what i find you will following the teaching of not creditable sources. The internet does not trump college teaching, sorry.

If Google is going to source wikipedia...good enough for me.

You go ask your teacher about settler/indian relations and get back to me.

 

[Bluelion]

You do realize that the Native Americans were forced out of their homes and lands and into reservations, correct? Those that defended themselves were killed or enslaved.

In the quest to convert the Native Americans to Christianity, many were murdered, raped, enslaved and fell victim to Spanish raids. There were long gibbets built, so that the Native Americans' toes would just touch the ground to prevent strangling in honor of Christ and his twelve apostles. They also wrapped their bodies in straw and burnt them alive.

Then there was smallpox.

Ever hear of the Trail of Tears? I wrote a 1000 word essay on that very topic for American History in college. I did so because I am part Cherokee.

My wife is part Cherokee. small world.

You do realize that the Spanish did not come to America seeking freedom of religion but were seeking profits. They cared little about the people saw them as a means to and end. They did not care so much about converting them as they did removing them from their wealth. So you get what happen to the Aztec. Those were Spanish conquerors which 16th century Nobel men warriors for Spain. These were not ministers, these were soldiers.

Now take the English with the Jamestown they wanted the Indians to just stay out of their way. Which was a big mistake because most the settlers died. I am sure you know of Pocahontas and her marriage to the Rolf(sorry spelling) which formed an alliance between Indians and settlers. I am not speaking down the road but between 1600 - 1700. There were other alliances as well. The English with exception of james town came to America seeking religious freedom. They brought their families over and were not seeking so much as profit though the joint stock company demanded it the were looking for freedom to worship The Christian God. The settlers would have never made it their first days if not for the Indians help, at the started they wanted trade. This is all pre war, which i will get to next week.

This is not a history thread. The comment made was that by 98 which stated America was not founded on Christian principles. I think others and my self have shown Christianity was a big part of early America and why many people came to America.

so that comment has been address and I am not going to debate history or if college is really a good education compared to the internet. Such people are looking to argue about anything not open to new ideas or facts.

thanks peace and love
blu

 

[Bluelion]

Some colleges are better than others, and some colleges are distinctly biased in their history offerings.

If all your college taught you about American government relations with the Indians was "The Indians got along with the pilgrims and other Christian settlements I already explain that it was those seeking a profit who treated the Indians poorly" then your American history must not have progressed even as far as the French and Indian war or to the removal of the "Five Civilized Tribes" from the southeast or to the post-Civil War conflicts of the west.

"Those seeking a profit" makes up virtually all of American history. If your instruction left out the profit seekers in America, your history course was quite deficient.

wow you can not even focus on one part of history can you. I was talking about the start 1600-1700 and you got to jump around then attack my school.

There is something seriously wrong when a talk about modern day America turns in to a who knows more about History and then to person attacks.

Seems to me some people feel threaten by education maybe because they don't have it. Over and over again if i mention school then my school is attack as not being a good school, wow you can say that with out ever knowing me or my school, why You must be God to Judge so mightily.

Just leave the thread if your going to resort to personally attack me.


Here is something for all those who are attacking me. Jesus said what you do to the least of my brothers you do to me. So all the insults and personal attacks you are attacking Jesus right along with me, so keep it up see what happens.

 

[Bluelion]

If Google is going to source wikipedia...good enough for me.

You go ask your teacher about settler/indian relations and get back to me.

yeah I am not asking nothing I am not your error boy nor am i going to do your work for you.

I already stated how and why Christianity had the biggest influence on people coming to America. You are not open you want to be right and that is all.

we are done believe what you want, I don't care.

You go on believing everything you read online it must be true after all, better than a college professors why we don't even need schools any more, why write text books the internet is better.lol ok

have a good day this subject is closed if any has something to say about the OP great.

 

[RDKirk]

wow you can not even focus on one part of history can you. I was talking about the start 1600-1700 and you got to jump around then attack my school.

There is something seriously wrong when a talk about modern day America turns in to a who knows more about History and then to person attacks.

Seems to me some people feel threaten by education maybe because they don't have it. Over and over again if i mention school then my school is attack as not being a good school, wow you can say that with out ever knowing me or my school, why You must be God to Judge so mightily.

Just leave the thread if your going to resort to personally attack me.


Here is something for all those who are attacking me. Jesus said what you do to the least of my brothers you do to me. So all the insults and personal attacks you are attacking Jesus right along with me, so keep it up see what happens.

Not attacking you at all. Just criticizing the history curriculum of your college. I'm presuming you're honestly presenting what you've been taught, but noting that if it was limited to what you stated, it was deficient.

One does not have to be God to judge a college curriculum. That's why there are accreditation boards that do so all the time. Why, just transferring from one college to another means the curriculum will be judged. Takes no divinity at all.

Now, if you're saying here that you're only talking about the first hundred years, I'll still have to disagree. By 1632, Roger Williams was already criticizing the stealing of Indian territory by the Christians at Plymouth.

 

[Bluelion]

Not attacking you at all. Just criticizing the history curriculum of your college. I'm presuming you're honestly presenting what you've been taught, but noting that if it was limited to what you stated, it was deficient.

One does not have to be God to judge a college curriculum. That's why there are accreditation boards that do so all the time. Why, just transferring from one college to another means the curriculum will be judged. Takes no divinity at all.

Now, if you're saying here that you're only talking about the first hundred years, I'll still have to disagree. By 1632, Roger Williams was already criticizing the stealing of Indian territory by the Christians at Plymouth.

Like i said if you have something to say about the OP good if not we are done.

 

[RDKirk]

America has always enjoy many blessing, but they have always held to Christian principles.

Nope. By 1632, Roger Williams was already criticizing the stealing of Indian territory by the Christians at Plymouth.

 

[tchilld50]

America has always enjoy many blessing, but they have always held to Christian principles. In the last 20 years America has abandon many of those principles, and also in the last 20 years there have been more disasters then ever in American history. Once unthinkable attacks being carried out on American soil now happen often, most recently the Boston bombings I believe. The weather has produced many natural disasters, everyone blames global warming, but is global warming the cause or is it Americas with draw from Christian principles. It always get me people yell separation of church and state and push God out of everything, yet they still say God bless America, really. My question is you don't want God in your life but you do want His blessing it does not work that way.

I think all that has been happening in America is a warning about where we are headed. I think God is telling us if you do not turn back to him He will leave us to our fate. Much like the way he warned Israel. I wonder if any one realizes the reason America had it so good was because of God. We were "one nation under God" now they want to remove that part in quotes i just said.It seems to me no one has stopped and thought what might happen if God left America. the president says God Bless America and then says yes to gay marriage. America has become spoiled and like a spoiled child, they want to do everything there way yet still receive the blessing and great life they had. In short they want their cake and want to eat it to.

I guess time will tell if I am right, but i see bad things for America if they stay on this path of Godlessness. More natural disasters, more attack by our enemies, more crime, more financial difficulty. Any one else see this?

Our current government isn't standing for Israel as it once did. God warned everyone that He would bless those who blessed Israel, and would curse those who cursed her. Our president stood in 2012 and stated same sex couples should be able to marry. DOMA was overturned as unconstitutional, thus putting a nail in the coffin of the family. Living together is touted as the way to go, marriage is obsolete, out of wedlock pregnancies are popularized on TV, the use of God's name in vain is no longer bleeped out, filth is in. I hear younger and younger kids using language once only used by adults. Their parents don't correct them, they are the ones the kids learn from. We have to fight lawsuits banning prayer in schools, on the football field, and in the meetings of local government. Too much change for the worse.

I remember when prayer, Bible reading was in school. The day that ceased our country began the slide down the sewer it's on now. It won't get any better, it will only get worse. But, we can't say we weren't warned. Jesus told us the signs to look for, we're seeing them every time we turn on the news or open a newspaper. We have to come together as Christians, pray for the peace of Israel, and pray for the salvation of this nation. The rest is up to God.

 

[98cwitr]

yeah I am not asking nothing I am not your error boy nor am i going to do your work for you.

I already stated how and why Christianity had the biggest influence on people coming to America. You are not open you want to be right and that is all.

we are done believe what you want, I don't care.

You go on believing everything you read online it must be true after all, better than a college professors why we don't even need schools any more, why write text books the internet is better.lol ok

have a good day this subject is closed if any has something to say about the OP great.

Im not asking you to be an errand boy...but seriously, ask and ye shall receive

hey man...facts are facts. Mine (and a lot of other posters) check out, how about yours?

 

[Bluelion]

Our current government isn't standing for Israel as it once did. God warned everyone that He would bless those who blessed Israel, and would curse those who cursed her. Our president stood in 2012 and stated same sex couples should be able to marry. DOMA was overturned as unconstitutional, thus putting a nail in the coffin of the family. Living together is touted as the way to go, marriage is obsolete, out of wedlock pregnancies are popularized on TV, the use of God's name in vain is no longer bleeped out, filth is in. I hear younger and younger kids using language once only used by adults. Their parents don't correct them, they are the ones the kids learn from. We have to fight lawsuits banning prayer in schools, on the football field, and in the meetings of local government. Too much change for the worse.

I remember when prayer, Bible reading was in school. The day that ceased our country began the slide down the sewer it's on now. It won't get any better, it will only get worse. But, we can't say we weren't warned. Jesus told us the signs to look for, we're seeing them every time we turn on the news or open a newspaper. We have to come together as Christians, pray for the peace of Israel, and pray for the salvation of this nation. The rest is up to God.

Thank you, You get it. That is what I have been saying and some have agreed. I think people don't want to admit it will get bad because they are afraid because of the way they been living. I not afraid I have God on my side, not a God, but Thee God, the only one. This whole country might fall off into the ocean but God will deliver His children.

Good post Brother Good post.

Peace and Love
blu

 

[Bluelion]

Im not asking you to be an errand boy...but seriously, ask and ye shall receive

hey man...facts are facts. Mine (and a lot of other posters) check out, how about yours?

just let it go already, i showed how the first colonist were seeking religious freedom more specific Christianity freedom. That they were in fact religious groups who formed the first states. Look up those who settled Maryland a catholic refuge, and who settled Mas. Protestant and who settled New England, puritans. PA Quakers and it goes on.Pa also the first state to intact religious freedom of Christians as a result many faiths gathered there.1600-1700 time frame, now tell me that is not true.

 

[tchilld50]

Thank you, You get it. That is what I have been saying and some have agreed. I think people don't want to admit it will get bad because they are afraid because of the way they been living. I not afraid I have God on my side, not a God, but Thee God, the only one. This whole country might fall off into the ocean but God will deliver His children.

Good post Brother Good post.

Peace and Love
blu

We don't have the leadership in this country that we once had. Yesterday I saw a story about marijuana use that will blow your socks off. Our president says marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol. There are too many cities dying for money, weed would be a cash cow for them. If weed is legalized in every state, look for the proponents of hard core drugs looking to legalize them. I wish we would wake up, realize how much power we have in the ballot box, but even greater power in God. We still have time to work, we MUST work, because the day is coming when God calls us home and those left behind will suffer in the tribulation.

 

[psalms 91]

If prohecy is true then it will not get better but worse yet.

 

[RDKirk]

We don't have the leadership in this country that we once had. Yesterday I saw a story about marijuana use that will blow your socks off. Our president says marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol. There are too many cities dying for money, weed would be a cash cow for them. If weed is legalized in every state, look for the proponents of hard core drugs looking to legalize them. I wish we would wake up, realize how much power we have in the ballot box, but even greater power in God. We still have time to work, we MUST work, because the day is coming when God calls us home and those left behind will suffer in the tribulation.

You're talking about cultural issues in America, then talk about "God calls us home." Your

Who is the "we" and the "us" you're talking about? What should "we" be working for?

If the answers are "We are the Body of Christ," "preaching the gospel," and "taking care of one another in the Body of Christ," then I'd agree.

 

[tchilld50]

You're talking about cultural issues in America, then talk about "God calls us home." Your

Who is the "we" and the "us" you're talking about? What should "we" be working for?

If the answers are "We are the Body of Christ," "preaching the gospel," and "taking care of one another in the Body of Christ," then I'd agree.

"We" are everyone, Christians and unbelievers. We haven't demanded accountability from our leaders. We didn't fight to keep prayer, Bible reading in school, look where that's gotten us. Our kids are killing others, and themselves. So many are experimenting with drugs, alcohol, they're drinking hand sanitizer for it's alcohol content, not counting the adults that have shown them how to do this.

'Us" are the body of Christ. We should be taking our elected representatives to task because they don't represent the electorate. We should be standing up to those who would take away our religious freedoms. There have been too many lawsuits stopping prayer before any event associated with the school. Local governments are being sued to stop prayer before they go into session. Lawsuits to stop crosses being erected where accidents have happened. By not standing up to groups like Freedom From Religion, defending the traditional family described by DOMA, those in authority are telling "us" to shut up. Recently a Christian bakery owner refused to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple. They went to another bakery, but sued the Christian for discrimination. The judge ruled against him, fined him $50,000, and warned him he would be fined for each cake he refuses to bake for a same sex couple. This shows how bad things have become, and they are going to get much worse.

 

[psalms 91]

Totally agree with you but be prepared for the flak I am sure is coming

 

[RDKirk]

"We" are everyone, Christians and unbelievers. We haven't demanded accountability from our leaders. We didn't fight to keep prayer, Bible reading in school, look where that's gotten us. Our kids are killing others, and themselves. So many are experimenting with drugs, alcohol, they're drinking hand sanitizer for it's alcohol content, not counting the adults that have shown them how to do this.

'Us" are the body of Christ. We should be taking our elected representatives to task because they don't represent the electorate. We should be standing up to those who would take away our religious freedoms. There have been too many lawsuits stopping prayer before any event associated with the school. Local governments are being sued to stop prayer before they go into session. Lawsuits to stop crosses being erected where accidents have happened. By not standing up to groups like Freedom From Religion, defending the traditional family described by DOMA, those in authority are telling "us" to shut up. Recently a Christian bakery owner refused to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple. They went to another bakery, but sued the Christian for discrimination. The judge ruled against him, fined him $50,000, and warned him he would be fined for each cake he refuses to bake for a same sex couple. This shows how bad things have become, and they are going to get much worse.

"We" and "us"--when spoken by a Christian about culture--should always be about the Body of Christ.

For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.

In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
-- 1 Peter 4

Unbelievers are not of the same nation or culture as members of the Body of Christ. We are a nation unto ourselves, even though dispersed through the worldly nations. Their culture is not our culture.

Things only look bad when you claim the culture of the natives as your own. But the natives are merely living like the natives they are. Citizens of Heaven must not think that we are natives like them.

...as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, having your conduct honorable among the pagans, that when they speak against you as evildoers [not following their moral principles], they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

A pastor has recently said, truly, "If you send your children to Caesar's schools, don't be surprised if they turn out to be Romans."

 

[Bluelion]

"We" are everyone, Christians and unbelievers. We haven't demanded accountability from our leaders. We didn't fight to keep prayer, Bible reading in school, look where that's gotten us. Our kids are killing others, and themselves. So many are experimenting with drugs, alcohol, they're drinking hand sanitizer for it's alcohol content, not counting the adults that have shown them how to do this.

'Us" are the body of Christ. We should be taking our elected representatives to task because they don't represent the electorate. We should be standing up to those who would take away our religious freedoms. There have been too many lawsuits stopping prayer before any event associated with the school. Local governments are being sued to stop prayer before they go into session. Lawsuits to stop crosses being erected where accidents have happened. By not standing up to groups like Freedom From Religion, defending the traditional family described by DOMA, those in authority are telling "us" to shut up. Recently a Christian bakery owner refused to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple. They went to another bakery, but sued the Christian for discrimination. The judge ruled against him, fined him $50,000, and warned him he would be fined for each cake he refuses to bake for a same sex couple. This shows how bad things have become, and they are going to get much worse.

completely agree

 

[tchilld50]

"We" and "us"--when spoken by a Christian about culture--should always be about the Body of Christ.

For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.

In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
-- 1 Peter 4

Unbelievers are not of the same nation or culture as members of the Body of Christ. We are a nation unto ourselves, even though dispersed through the worldly nations. Their culture is not our culture.

Things only look bad when you claim the culture of the natives as your own. But the natives are merely living like the natives they are. Citizens of Heaven must not think that we are natives like them.

...as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, having your conduct honorable among the pagans, that when they speak against you as evildoers [not following their moral principles], they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

A pastor has recently said, truly, "If you send your children to Caesar's schools, don't be surprised if they turn out to be Romans."

I was one of those "lost" people at one time. I had people who prayed for me, witnessed, Christians who wanted me to have eternal life. If they hadn't done these things I'd still be lost. We are here to witness to the lost, to show them what living for God can be, and if we continue on the road we're on, that right will be gone. I've read the warnings to the seven churches that Paul wrote. Those letters fit the churches of this day to a tee. We don't have the luxury of remaining silent, letting the flow go, we are supposed to be a light in this world, to work at changing lives, and that includes standing up for our religious freedoms. As long as I have a vote, feel that I can help change the lives of others for the better, I will speak out. No, this world is not my home for eternity, but I'm going to make it better as long as I am here.

 

[RDKirk]

I was one of those "lost" people at one time. I had people who prayed for me, witnessed, Christians who wanted me to have eternal life. If they hadn't done these things I'd still be lost. We are here to witness to the lost, to show them what living for God can be, and if we continue on the road we're on, that right will be gone. I've read the warnings to the seven churches that Paul wrote. Those letters fit the churches of this day to a tee. We don't have the luxury of remaining silent, letting the flow go, we are supposed to be a light in this world, to work at changing lives, and that includes standing up for our religious freedoms. As long as I have a vote, feel that I can help change the lives of others for the better, I will speak out. No, this world is not my home for eternity, but I'm going to make it better as long as I am here.

Yes, the Body of Christ is the embassy in the world of the kingdom of Heaven. Yes, our mission is to preach the gospel so that people might defect from the world, and we grant them asylum within our kingdom.

This does not mean that we "go native" and begin to believe that we belong to this world. We are here to perform a mission of limited duration, then we're going home.