America

[RDKirk]

I simply think they see so much evil going to and fro,that they ask is this the Country I used to know?

As Ronald Regan said Quote : I did not leave the Democratic party,the Democratic party left me.

Do you suppose our Lord might be thinking the same about America?

I am very happy this is not the country I used to know.

That was an unChristian society, merely claiming religion while practicing hell. Today, it doesn't claim Christianity as much and the honesty makes the distinction clearer.

 

[RDKirk]

Well they certainly put God first in major undertakings such as a peace treaty.



Transcript of Treaty of Paris (1783)
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The Definitive Treaty of Peace 1783

In the Name of the most Holy & undivided Trinity.

It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the Hearts of the most Serene and most Potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God, King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, Duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, Arch- Treasurer and Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc.. and of the United States of America, to forget all past Misunderstandings and Differences that have unhappily interrupted the good Correspondence and Friendship which they mutually wish to restore; and to establish such a beneficial and satisfactory Intercourse between the two countries upon the ground of reciprocal Advantages and mutual Convenience.


Any such important document as the treaty of Paris,starting out : in the name of the most holy trinity,tells me the importance of God was to our founders..

1783. Was that the year slavery was abolished in America? I mean, with God being so important to our founders and all....

 

[RDKirk]

Finally, in general Americans tend to be patriotic, and I see no reason it is bad to try and restore my Country to it's former glory as one of the most Christian nations in the world.

It was a whitewashed tomb.

 

[RDKirk]

Funny I fail to see how Falsely accusing people is following Jesus after all satan is the great accuser.

Are you saying that Jesus and Paul did not instruct the Church in how to make judgments on those who harm others in the Body of Christ? Are you saying that even after repeating the quotation of scripture in which Jesus and Paul give explicit instructions on how the Church is to make judgments on those who harm others in the Body of Christ?

 

[classicalhero]

Scripture does tell us it will get worse. But more importantly, is it the mission commanded by Christ for His Body? Did Christ command, "Fix the Roman Empire?" Is there evidence in scripture that Paul or any of the other apostles attempted to change the laws of the Roman Empire?

We know that soldiers and even significant Roman officials became Christians, we see no evidence of them initiating petitions to the Roman government for changes in laws. Rather, see them being called before the Roman government to explain (apologize) Christian activities, and at that point they gain audience to promote the gospel.

Understanding that the mission of the Body of Christ is not to "fix the Roman Empire" becomes significant when faced with questions like "Why didn't the Church protest slavery?" or "Why didn't the Church protest the subjugation of women?" or "Why didn't the Church protest temple prostitution?"

Even though the last is inarguabley prohibited of Christians (and we can argue for the others as well), we don't see the apostles moving in that direction: Nowhere do we see Paul adjuring officials to cease pagan worship.

That's because "fixing the Roman Empire" was not and is not the mission of the Body of Christ. Jesus did not command it; the apostles did not prosecute it.

The mission of the Body of Christ is not to save the Titanic, but to point to the lifeboat of rescue from it. It is a grave error for the small group of Christians that happen to be in America to think that this particular "deck" of the Titanic is not going down with the rest of the ship.

Tell this to William Wilberforce. He used his position in parliament to get laws changed for the better of society and the oppressed, to have more laws based on Christian values.

 

[psalms 91]

In order to point anyone to the lifeboat we have to get the cruise ship mentality of the church to change

 

[RDKirk]

Tell this to William Wilberforce. He used his position in parliament to get laws changed for the better of society and the oppressed, to have more laws based on Christian values.

And I'm personally very grateful to Wilberforce.

But I still say that conversion works better than coercion, if we're talking about the mission of the Body of Christ.

 

[Bluelion]

You said:
Originally Posted by Bluelion

You preach church and state however this is not what Paul taught or preached. You can not have a heathen government and a moral Christian society.
​

However, the early Church was precisely a moral Christian society within a heathen government.

Jesus specifically declared in John 15 that the Church would be a moral Christian society in a heathen government.

The apostolic letters, especially 1 Corinthians and 1 Peter, define the moral Christian society within the heathen government and give instructions on how to maintain it.

You declared impossible what Jesus said was fact and what the apostles defined, described, and instruction.

No he didn't show me where in the Bible he say that. Fact is Christian were being murder in that society. They died for there faith every day. Like I said you can not have a heathen government and a moral christian society too.

 

[Bluelion]

Are you saying that Jesus and Paul did not instruct the Church in how to make judgments on those who harm others in the Body of Christ? Are you saying that even after repeating the quotation of scripture in which Jesus and Paul give explicit instructions on how the Church is to make judgments on those who harm others in the Body of Christ?

The Holy Spirit does not falsely judge

 

[Legionwrex]

It was a whitewashed tomb.

Says you. From everything I have seen it was pretty Christian, but no lest immediately judge that they weren't. I guess you must think the Founding Fathers are burning in Hellfire right now?

Seriously, this is starting to annoy me. If you want to claim America is a bad place now, I would agree. However back in the day it an undisputed fact that it was one of the most Christian Countries in the world. Of course evil still happened it it, such as slavery and others forms, but you can't expect perfection on this earth. Even Jerusalem in it's glory had much evil.

My point is that relative to other nations, America was very Godly, and I truly believe God did bless America for it's original Godly principles and that is the reason it has been so successful.

 

[RDKirk]

In order to point anyone to the lifeboat we have to get the cruise ship mentality of the church to change

The Church has to realize that the ship is sinking.

 

[Bluelion]

Says you. From everything I have seen it was pretty Christian, but no lest immediately judge that they weren't. I guess you must think the Founding Fathers are burning in Hellfire right now?

Seriously, this is starting to annoy me. If you want to claim America is a bad place now, I would agree. However back in the day it an undisputed fact that it was one of the most Christian Countries in the world. Of course evil still happened it it, such as slavery and others forms, but you can't expect perfection on this earth. Even Jerusalem in it's glory had much evil.

My point is that relative to other nations, America was very Godly, and I truly believe God did bless America for it's original Godly principles and that is the reason it has been so successful.

I agree

 

[RDKirk]

Says you. From everything I have seen it was pretty Christian, but no lest immediately judge that they weren't. I guess you must think the Founding Fathers are burning in Hellfire right now?

Seriously, this is starting to annoy me. If you want to claim America is a bad place now, I would agree. However back in the day it an undisputed fact that it was one of the most Christian Countries in the world. Of course evil still happened it it, such as slavery and others forms, but you can't expect perfection on this earth. Even Jerusalem in it's glory had much evil.

My point is that relative to other nations, America was very Godly, and I truly believe God did bless America for it's original Godly principles and that is the reason it has been so successful.

Actually, Britain during the 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s beats the US in every possible way of exhibiting Christianity in its national policies.

Have you not heard of Jesus' parable of the two sons? The father asks one son to do a task; the son says, "I will," but never does it. He asks the other son; that son says, "I won't," but then has a change of heart and does what his father asks. Jesus asks rhetorically, "Which was the obedient son?"

America is self-condemned by its "original Godly principles." It said "I will," but then did not. America's "original Godly principles" condemn it by Luke 12: "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."

 

[Legionwrex]

Actually, Britain during the 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s beats the US in every possible way of exhibiting Christianity in its national policies.

Have you not heard of Jesus' parable of the two sons? The father asks one son to do a task; the son says, "I will," but never does it. He asks the other son; that son says, "I won't," but then has a change of heart and does what his father asks. Jesus asks rhetorically, "Which was the obedient son?"

America is self-condemned by its "original Godly principles." It said "I will," but then did not. America's "original Godly principles" condemn it by Luke 12: "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."

America as a whole was a nation of Christians. However unlike Britain, it didn't force Christianity on people and punish them for not being Christians, which the Bible says not to do.

America as a whole was comprised mainly of Christians back in the day. That is a fact. So again, do you believe the Founding Fathers are burning in Hell right now?