ALL WOF'ers COMPLETELY HEALED?

Tolworth John

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Just a friendly warning here John. By bad mouthing the charismatic movement in which Word of Faith is a part of may just bring in our forum "mods" in that you may have overstayed your welcome. Everyone is welcome here to fellowship with us, and sorry to say that you went over the line.

To be clear..... not everyone who is sick and asks for prayer are really applying their faith. It's more like hope being applied. It could be a lack of faith, or as I said earlier in another post, it could be unbelief. There is a major difference in believing in hope, verses real faith applied. Hope is knowing God can do... Faith is knowing God has already done it.



Whether the sick person is using there faith or not is irrelevent.
It is the prayer of faith that leads to healing and this is being said by the elder, not the sick so the responcibility falls on to who ever is organising or running the healing session, it is there faith that is being challenged.
If they are blaming the sick for lack of faith then my use of the word charlaten is accuracte and valid.
A man of God will not blaime the sick for not being healed.
 
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Si_monfaith

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God is not a vending machine. He chooses to heal or not to heal according to his will.
Do you mean to say rejection of Christ's volitional sovereignty that is, His all authority in heaven & earth, as the reason why many WOF preachers aren't healed?
 
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hhodgson

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Whether the sick person is using there faith or not is irrelevent.
It is the prayer of faith that leads to healing and this is being said by the elder, not the sick so the responcibility falls on to who ever is organising or running the healing session, it is there faith that is being challenged.
If they are blaming the sick for lack of faith then my use of the word charlaten is accuracte and valid.
A man of God will not blaime the sick for not being healed.

How can his faith be irrelevant if (faith used) is the only way to please God?


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Daniel Marsh

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So are you certain they were completely healed?

If one ages, needs glasses, medical aids, feels joint pain or any other daily pain of any kind they are completely healed. We all are under the curse on creation. There is no promise of a perfect body until the resurrection.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Do you mean to say rejection of Christ's volitional sovereignty that is, His all authority in heaven & earth, as the reason why many WOF preachers aren't healed?

I am saying that God has a will. He may choose to heal when he wants to. He may choose not to heal that the pain, sickness, illness or injury can be used towards our sanctification.

As I understand it, they believe God will always do what they demand or ask.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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How can his faith be irrelevant if (faith used) is the only way to please God?



The point of the passage in James is the healing relies on the faith of the elders praying, not the sick person. Also, I pointed out the Dead Person and bones in the cave do not have faith. God acts in his time and place.
 
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Si_monfaith

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How can his faith be irrelevant if (faith used) is the only way to please God?



Are suck people coming to experience a miracle done by the healer's faith in order for the gospel to be confirmed to them & have faith OR to be healed?

If a sick person has faith to be healed why does he need a healer?
 
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Si_monfaith

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If one ages, needs glasses, medical aids, feels joint pain or any other daily pain of any kind they are completely healed. We all are under the curse on creation. There is no promise of a perfect body until the resurrection.
So why faith in Christ's death & resurrection?
 
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Si_monfaith

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I am saying that God has a will. He may choose to heal when he wants to. He may choose not to heal that the pain, sickness, illness or injury can be used towards our sanctification.

As I understand it, they believe God will always do what they demand or ask.

He may choose not to heal that the pain, sickness, illness or injury can be used towards our sanctification

Isn't faith the end of sanctification?
 
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Tolworth John

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How can his faith be irrelevant if (faith used) is the only way to please God?


No where does the bible say that it is the faith of the sick person that God responds to.

It is the faith of the man of faith who is praying for the sick person to be healed that is relevent.
 
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hhodgson

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God is not a vending machine. He chooses to heal or not to heal according to his will.

Jesus healed everyone who came to Him. I believe that this has already been said by others.


WOF Eblem.gif
 
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hhodgson

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The point of the passage in James is the healing relies on the faith of the elders praying, not the sick person. Also, I pointed out the Dead Person and bones in the cave do not have faith. God acts in his time and place.

By the use of the church elders is only one way in praying for the sick. All believers may operate in the great commission.

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be recovered."

WOF Eblem.gif
 
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now faith

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Please drop the lie that it is a lack of faith on the part of the sick.
Where did Jesus question or challenge the faith of the sick. He often challenged the faith of parrents or those with the sick, but those who were ill never.
It is an excuse used by charlatents not by men of God.


Matthew 9: 27. And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us. 28. And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord. 29. Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you. 30. And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know

Now, you can drop the Adhominim and study a bit.
 
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now faith

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God is not a vending machine. He chooses to heal or not to heal according to his will.

So then He must be a respecter of persons , and His Word is a lie.
Or people Parrot old wives tales passed down for generations ,rather than reading God's Word for themselves.
 
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now faith

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"

Divine Healing That Wasn't
(keep in mind most of these folks teach it is God’s will to heal you every time you are sick)

Doyle "Buddy" Harrison, Founder of Harrison House Books, son-in-law of Kenneth E. Hagin died Nov. 1998 of cancer. He was the founder of Faith Christian Fellowship, the WOF denomination. How could he have died of cancer? He was in the "faith movement" BEFORE Copeland and others . . .

0. E.W. Kenyon, Father of the Word of Faith Movement. One of the initial teachers of divine healing and it always being God's will to heal His children. Died in a coma brought on by a malignant tumor. Copeland teaches that Kenyon was sitting in a rocking chair, his daughter came into the room and Kenyon said "there's Jesus, good bye," and went to glory. This is a lie. He died from disease.

1. John Osteen, mega-church pastor in Houston - his wife, Dodie got liver cancer and through the mercy of God and medical attention survived. John Osteen is more sound today than when he initially began with the renewal movement, he is probably not as much a WOF teacher as he used to be.

2. Frederick K. Price, Word of Faith mega-church pastor in Los Angeles - his wife, Betty got cancer and was medically treated (chemo-therapy) and by the mercy of God was patched up. "If you need a crutch upon or something to help you get along, then praise God, hobble along until you get your faith moving to the point that you don’t need a crutch." How Faith Works pp. 92-92
I guess after all the years of sitting under "anointed" faith teaching by one of the movements leading faith teachers was not enough for Fred’s wife - she needed a doctor after all.


3. Jamie Buckingham, Discipleship Movement & charismatic author - died of cancer. He was under a medical doctors care.

4. Charles Capps, Word of Faith teacher, teaches power of our words to create reality - his wife got cancer and was medically treated.

I don’t deny the existence of disease. I deny the right of that disease to exist in this body, because I’m the Body of Christ." The Tongue p. 43.I guess Chuck’s wife must have not spoken the right magic words to keep the cancer from her body.
5. John Wimber, Signs & Wonders Movement, author of "Power Healing," - just died from cancer. He too, was medically treated - no "power" healing for him, only chemo-therapy.
5a. Chris Wimber, GM of Vineyard Music died Feb 6, 1998 of melanoma cancer. Mahesh is supposed to have "healed" people of cancer and AIDS - yet there was no "healing" for Chris.

6. Mack Timberlake, Word of Faith pastor - suffering from throat cancer, getting medical attention.

7. R.W. Schambach, Faith Healer - got a quadruple heart bypass (from a real live human doctor)

"You don’t have any problems, all you need is faith in God."Maybe so, but isn't it nice that He has provided doctors too? Without them, R.W. would have long ago faced his judgment.
8. Dr. Hobart Freeman, Word of Faith teacher & pastor of Faith Assembly - over 90 people died in his church following his teaching and then Hobart died due to a medically treatable disease.
I personally respect Hobart & his misguided followers. They actually took the teachings of the WOF movement to their logical conclusion. They stood on the "promises" alone and believed in their doctrine enough to face painful deaths instead of refusing to deny what they believed. Hobart Freeman is the most chilling testimony of the complete bankruptcy of the WOF errors. If WOF teachings were true they would have certainly worked for Hobart and the 90+ people who died in "faith believing." (BTW - Hobart is a name NONE of the WOF'ers mention, he was too serious about the teachings).

9. Joyce Meyer, the fast rising Word of Faith female preacher. On Aug. 31, 1998 on her morning broadcast admitted that she had breast cancer and was MEDICALLY TREATED. I found her admission to be very interesting.

9. Prophet Keith Grayton, Prophetic Movement - died of the complications of AIDS He spoke at our Church in Detroit, and declared he was totally healed. He died a year or so later.

10. Kenneth Hagin, "father" of the Word of Faith Movement - sister died of cancer, (he wears glasses as does his son). Hagin’s great faith and special anointing could not keep her on the planet or his eyesight from growing dim.
10a. Hagin's sister died from cancer.
10b. Hagin's wife had to go to the hospital for an operation
even though Jesus "appeared" to Hagin and gave him a special anointing to heal the sick (read I Believe In Visions). If people believe Hagin is anointed then they will be healed, I guess his own family members doubt his healing powers.

11. Robert Tilton, God's "profit" admitted he had to get special face-lifting surgery because of the danger of getting ink poisoning from laying on all the prayer requests he received. Why didn't he command healing . . .like he does for countless others over the airwaves?"
...

Katherine Kuhlman - an acknowledged divine healer DIED from heart disease in Tulsa OK, Oral Roberts could not heal her!
A.A. Allen - an acknowledged divine healer and exorcist DIED from alcohol & drug abuse.
Aimee Semple McPherson - an acknowledge divine healer - died of a barbiturate overdose. Why was she taking pills in the first place? Wasn't the "peace" of God enough for her?
Jack Coe - an acknowledged divine healer DIED from disease.
John G. Lake - DIED of a stroke in 1935. He is held up as a great "healer" and miracle worker.
Gordon Lindsey- DIED either of a stroke or heart condition. Yet he propagated the Healing Revival of the lates 1940's and early 1950's. Why?

...
1. Robert Tilton, Word of Faith Televangelist - 2 divorces, multiple law suits, caught in many lies, utters many false prophecies, uses unscrupulous means to garner millions from God's "gullible."

2. Peter Popoff, Televangelist - a proven fraud (read "The Faith Healers" by James Randi)

3. W.V. Grant, Televangelist - convicted felon for tax fraud, a divorcee.

4. Leroy Jenkins, Televangelist - convicted felon for arson & assault.

5. Jimmy Swaggert, Televangelist - adulterer, opulent lifestyle while crying broke on television.

6. Marilyn Hickey, Word of Faith teacher - shameless use of charismatic trinkets (blessed cornmeal, oils, cloths, seeds, coins, etc.).

7. Marjoe Gortner, came from 3 generations of Pentecostal preachers. He laid hands on multitudes to give them the "gift" of tongues. . . yet he himself was not saved. He admitted this publicly, and made a movie showing him in action. Unsaved, yet seeming to flow in the miraculous.

8. Jim Bakker, convicted felon. Jim & Tammy lived high off the hog for many years. Later they divorced, and in jail the Lord seems to have dealt with Jim and I think he has repented.

9. E.W. Kenyon, divorced his wife yet taught that faith is a law that works by another law, the law of love! We are told by WOF teachers that Kenyon was a man of faith and power - but how could his "god-kind-of-faith" been in operation if he could not even love his wife properly?

Sick Healers?

You know what, Elishsa had a double portion of anointing more than Elijah , yet He died of sickness.
Here's another thing you may know if you understand the spiritual nature of of God.
A Prophet must have a Wittness.
Often people with the Gift of healing neglect their own.
I know a Pastor who has laid hands on cancer and it was gone, yet He lost his jaw and the roof of his mouth to cancer.
Just because someone operates in the gifts of the Spirit ,does not give them a pass on what Satan attacks with.
Many on your list are not even Word of Faith
Who heals the Healer?
Christ does by Faith guess what the Healer is subject to the same spiritual laws anyone else is.
That is where you miss it, we make no claims of superpower We proclaim God's Word.
One thing is for sure you will never have what you speak against, stay healthy
It's a cruel World and a roaring lion is at our doorstep.
 
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now faith

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Whether the sick person is using there faith or not is irrelevent.
It is the prayer of faith that leads to healing and this is being said by the elder, not the sick so the responcibility falls on to who ever is organising or running the healing session, it is there faith that is being challenged.
If they are blaming the sick for lack of faith then my use of the word charlaten is accuracte and valid.
A man of God will not blaime the sick for not being healed.

Jesus did :

Mark 6: 4. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5. And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. 6. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Once again learn what you speak and then you can have a ribbon
 
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now faith

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Jesus healed everyone who came to Him. I believe that this has already been said by others.



This is a waste, all they want is to attack God's Word, it is deception.
It is a lie by omission.
They are as sneaky as the televangelist they critize.
This is a group that seeks to cause discord, and they need to repent.
 
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now faith

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I wonder in general , if idiots have feelings?
You know some of us maybe myself may be going through somthing.
Maybe a daughter who is in a hospital bed tonight.
Thank you for this stellar group of people just ready to offer prayer and consolation.

Here is a sermon some may relate to:

 
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hhodgson

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What is it?

In reality are all wof'ers completely healed?

It would be according to their faith, right? We need to acknowledge that God's provision for healing has already been provided for, right? Once we do acknowledge that... we need to (now) appropriate our faith... and (now) receive what God has already done for us. "I believe, I receive when I pray" (Mark 11:24) paraphrased.


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