ALL WOF'ers COMPLETELY HEALED?

[Si_monfaith]

Has bodily redemption got anything to do with complete healing?

Bodily redemption refers to the new body we get at the resurrection of all people, believers before non believers.

Does the passage you quoted diminish the power of faith?
No

If we have all the faith in the world, but if it is not God's timing....

If we have all the faith in the world, but if it is not God's timing....

Do you mean to say God diminishes the power of faith by His timing?

 

[now faith]

We do not speak king james English today which give us misinformation.

John 5:9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
9 Immediately the man was well. He picked up his mat and started walking.

The day all this happened was a Sabbath day.

Those healing in the gospels were pre-atonement --- isolated cases.

Which give us information?
I doubt, there exist a Ebonics version.

Teaching in a congressional Forum m is not allowed, this is why those who seek to disrupt our Forum, do so by using rhetorical questions.
If you dislike the King James good for you.
Please do not tell me it is not used, or correct me for using it.
It reads on a sixth grade level, and that's a challenge for some.

 

[now faith]

In context Isaiah 52 thru 54 is about Israel whom God freed from Egypt.

That is why the text is in past tense. Later, it was applied to Jesus as the Messiah. But, the past tense part is about Israel, not modern healing.

Nonsense, you need a different Bible if you cannot see Christ in these chapters.

 

[now faith]

from the context of this discussion physical.

It seems you should abide by your own standards.
You rebuked Oscar for derailing your thread in the Baptist Fourm, and it was shut down.
Now you are hear telling me what Bible to use?

 

[now faith]

Romans 8:20-25 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
Present distress is temporary and negligible
18-21 In my opinion whatever we may have to go through now is less than nothing compared with the magnificent future God has planned for us. The whole creation is on tiptoe to see the wonderful sight of the sons of God coming into their own. The world of creation cannot as yet see reality, not because it chooses to be blind, but because in God’s purpose it has been so limited—yet it has been given hope. And the hope is that in the end the whole of created life will be rescued from the tyranny of change and decay, and have its share in that magnificent liberty which can only belong to the children of God!

22-25 It is plain to anyone with eyes to see that at the present time all created life groans in a sort of universal travail. And it is plain, too, that we who have a foretaste of the Spirit are in a state of painful tension, while we wait for that redemption of our bodies which will mean that at last we have realised our full sonship in him. We were saved by this hope, but in our moments of impatience let us remember that hope always means waiting for something that we haven’t yet got. But if we hope for something we cannot see, then we must settle down to wait for it in patience.

I just love to observe cafeteria Christainity.
Some people just do not like what a Bible says , so they search until they find one that agrees with their apostasy.

 

[Tolworth John]

It's not always lack of faith. In many cases it could be the opposite of the lack of faith meaning... an abundance of "unbelief." One can have both!

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Either way it is the 'healer' who is at fault not the sick person.

 

[hhodgson]

Either way it is the 'healer' who is at fault not the sick person.

The sick needs to have (some) faith also. How may times in the Word when Jesus... "saw" their faith and He healed them? Also, the "healer" is God, not the person praying for him. The person that's praying for the sick person is only an instrument God is using. If neither one applies faith the sick will remain sick.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Sorry, no mind science, divine science, nor christian science. It's Word of Faith. Let's remember what forum your in." Thanks Daniel.

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I am a former Christian Science person when I was in Jr High. And, what you wrote was in fact CS.

"The Secret is a best-selling 2006 self-help book by Rhonda Byrne, based on the earlier film of the same name. It is based on the belief of the law of attraction, which claims that thoughts can change a person's life directly"

"Rhonda Byrne (born 1945, Melbourne, Australia) is an Australian television writer and producer. Her New Thought book, The Secret (based on a film she produced of the same name) is based on the belief in The Law of Attraction. "

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The sick needs to have (some) faith also. How may times in the Word when Jesus... "saw" their faith and He healed them? Also, the "healer" is God, not the person praying for him. The person that's praying for the sick person is only an instrument God is using. If neither one applies faith
the sick will remain sick.

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You ignored the dead man who came back to life when he came in contact with Elijah's bones. How much faith did the dead man have? When he was not even aware of the situation???

 

[Si_monfaith]

The sick needs to have (some) faith also. How may times in the Word when Jesus... "saw" their faith and He healed them? Also, the "healer" is God, not the person praying for him. The person that's praying for the sick person is only an instrument God is using. If neither one applies faith
the sick will remain sick.

View attachment 265381​

Were there WOF preachers who weren't completely healed?

 

[now faith]

Either way it is the 'healer' who is at fault not the sick person.

Hello John,
I was perplexed about this same question.
Why do some get healed and some do Not?
A lack of Faith by the Healer ?
Yes, and here is why.
Often even people with a gift of Healing , create their own idea of God's will.
They do not completely stand on the Word of God.
Is it a lack of Faith from the sick?
Yes.
I know people who have felt the power of God hit them,feel the Healers hand be hot.
They go out praising their healed ,then Satan gives a spirit of fear and unbelief.
They go to the doctor for test, Faith growing weaker by the day.
They start to reconcile their unbelief and say things like well to be sure..
It's all about standing on God's Word He did it all.
If you have Faith that God will heal you with a doctor good God answers prayer.
Why would people know they were healed and fall into unbelief ?
I wish I knew.
I have had hands laid on me , and a quadracep tear disappear, with no sign it ever happened.
I know the power of laying on of hands.
But I did not go get a MRI to be sure, muscle tears leave a void where they broke.
I have three others.
But I have one that God made whole.
The others healed after a long time ,the quad a few days the blood and depression in leg was gone, I went out and played tennis.
Bless God.

 

[Tolworth John]

The sick needs to have (some) faith also. How may times in the Word when Jesus... "saw" their faith and He healed them? Also, the "healer" is God, not the person praying for him. The person that's praying for the sick person is only an instrument God is using. If neither one applies faith
the sick will remain sick.

​

It is the prayer of faith made by the elders that the sick person has called in that heals.

The charletans in the charismatic movement claim that the sick are not healed because of there lack of faith.
As I have just shown this is a blaytent lie.

The sick person has shown there faith in calling in the elders to pray for them, it is then up to the 'faith' of those doing the praying.

 

[Tolworth John]

Hello John,
I was perplexed about this same question.
Why do some get healed and some do Not?
A lack of Faith by the Healer ?
Yes, and here is why.
Often even people with a gift of Healing , create their own idea of God's will.
They do not completely stand on the Word of God.
Is it a lack of Faith from the sick?
Yes.
I know people who have felt the power of God hit them,feel the Healers hand be hot.
They go out praising their healed ,then Satan gives a spirit of fear and unbelief.
They go to the doctor for test, Faith growing weaker by the day.
They start to reconcile their unbelief and say things like well to be sure..
It's all about standing on God's Word He did it all.
If you have Faith that God will heal you with a doctor good God answers prayer.
Why would people know they were healed and fall into unbelief ?
I wish I knew.
I have had hands laid on me , and a quadracep tear disappear, with no sign it ever happened.
I know the power of laying on of hands.
But I did not go get a MRI to be sure, muscle tears leave a void where they broke.
I have three others.
But I have one that God made whole.
The others healed after a long time ,the quad a few days the blood and depression in leg was gone, I went out and played tennis.
Bless God.

Please drop the lie that it is a lack of faith on the part of the sick.
Where did Jesus question or challenge the faith of the sick. He often challenged the faith of parrents or those with the sick, but those who were ill never.
It is an excuse used by charlatents not by men of God.

 

[hhodgson]

You ignored the dead man who came back to life when he came in contact with Elijah's bones. How much faith did the dead man have? When he was not even aware of the situation???

How about refreshing my mind here Daniel. When were we talking about a dead man being brought back to life in this thread... that I ignored? Yes, the dead man was not aware of the situation since He was... dead! lol. How could he have faith, [and] the dead mans bones were from Elisha not... Elijah.

This was an example of a miracle of God. This situation was found in 2 Kings 13:21. Long story short, when this man died, his body was thrown into Elisha's grave (tomb) that touched the bones of Elisha, and this guy returned to life. The anointing of God was all over and remained on Elisha's bones... even when he was long dead. It was a miracle of God!

Remember in Acts, you can find how 'handkerchiefs and aprons' that had (actually) touched Paul’s body that healed the sick... and, get this!… This happened even though Paul was not even there (Acts 19:11-12). Another anointing miracle! This time God used handkerchiefs and aprons.

Also, a chariot of fire with (horses of fire) appeared to Elijah and Elisha that took Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind (another miracle). And finally, as Elijah was taken up... his mantel (anointing) fell on Elisha with double portion (another miracle).

Lets go one more! Elisha also stood on the bank of the Jordan River, struck the water and asked: Where is the LORD God of Elijah?” (What happened?) The LORD responded by dividing the water and Elisha crossed over. Elisha then had a continued ministry of miracles, signs and wonders.

These are just a few miracles of God that happened with or without any faith being applied from anyone. Could these miracles be these examples of the faith of God? Many WOF believe that. Something to think about... since this is a WOF forum. We are indeed peculiar people.

You have a fine day...

 

[hhodgson]

It is the prayer of faith made by the elders that the sick person has called in that heals.

The charletans in the charismatic movement claim that the sick are not healed because of there lack of faith. As I have just shown this is a blaytent lie.

The sick person has shown there faith in calling in the elders to pray for them, it is then up to the 'faith' of those doing the praying.

Just a friendly warning here John. By bad mouthing the charismatic movement in which Word of Faith is a part of may just bring in our forum "mods" in that you may have overstayed your welcome. Everyone is welcome here to fellowship with us, and sorry to say that you went over the line.

To be clear..... not everyone who is sick and asks for prayer are really applying their faith. It's more like hope being applied. It could be a lack of faith, or as I said earlier in another post, it could be unbelief. There is a major difference in believing in hope, verses real faith applied. Hope is knowing God can do... Faith is knowing God has already done it.

 

[hhodgson]

Were there WOF preachers who weren't completely healed?

All I can say with your continued repetitive questions is... go ask them if they were completely healed.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Were there WOF preachers who weren't completely healed?

"

Divine Healing That Wasn't
(keep in mind most of these folks teach it is God’s will to heal you every time you are sick)

Doyle "Buddy" Harrison, Founder of Harrison House Books, son-in-law of Kenneth E. Hagin died Nov. 1998 of cancer. He was the founder of Faith Christian Fellowship, the WOF denomination. How could he have died of cancer? He was in the "faith movement" BEFORE Copeland and others . . .

0. E.W. Kenyon, Father of the Word of Faith Movement. One of the initial teachers of divine healing and it always being God's will to heal His children. Died in a coma brought on by a malignant tumor. Copeland teaches that Kenyon was sitting in a rocking chair, his daughter came into the room and Kenyon said "there's Jesus, good bye," and went to glory. This is a lie. He died from disease.

1. John Osteen, mega-church pastor in Houston - his wife, Dodie got liver cancer and through the mercy of God and medical attention survived. John Osteen is more sound today than when he initially began with the renewal movement, he is probably not as much a WOF teacher as he used to be.

2. Frederick K. Price, Word of Faith mega-church pastor in Los Angeles - his wife, Betty got cancer and was medically treated (chemo-therapy) and by the mercy of God was patched up. "If you need a crutch upon or something to help you get along, then praise God, hobble along until you get your faith moving to the point that you don’t need a crutch." How Faith Works pp. 92-92
I guess after all the years of sitting under "anointed" faith teaching by one of the movements leading faith teachers was not enough for Fred’s wife - she needed a doctor after all.

3. Jamie Buckingham, Discipleship Movement & charismatic author - died of cancer. He was under a medical doctors care.

4. Charles Capps, Word of Faith teacher, teaches power of our words to create reality - his wife got cancer and was medically treated.

I don’t deny the existence of disease. I deny the right of that disease to exist in this body, because I’m the Body of Christ." The Tongue p. 43.I guess Chuck’s wife must have not spoken the right magic words to keep the cancer from her body.
5. John Wimber, Signs & Wonders Movement, author of "Power Healing," - just died from cancer. He too, was medically treated - no "power" healing for him, only chemo-therapy.
5a. Chris Wimber, GM of Vineyard Music died Feb 6, 1998 of melanoma cancer. Mahesh is supposed to have "healed" people of cancer and AIDS - yet there was no "healing" for Chris.

6. Mack Timberlake, Word of Faith pastor - suffering from throat cancer, getting medical attention.

7. R.W. Schambach, Faith Healer - got a quadruple heart bypass (from a real live human doctor)

"You don’t have any problems, all you need is faith in God."Maybe so, but isn't it nice that He has provided doctors too? Without them, R.W. would have long ago faced his judgment.
8. Dr. Hobart Freeman, Word of Faith teacher & pastor of Faith Assembly - over 90 people died in his church following his teaching and then Hobart died due to a medically treatable disease.
I personally respect Hobart & his misguided followers. They actually took the teachings of the WOF movement to their logical conclusion. They stood on the "promises" alone and believed in their doctrine enough to face painful deaths instead of refusing to deny what they believed. Hobart Freeman is the most chilling testimony of the complete bankruptcy of the WOF errors. If WOF teachings were true they would have certainly worked for Hobart and the 90+ people who died in "faith believing." (BTW - Hobart is a name NONE of the WOF'ers mention, he was too serious about the teachings).

9. Joyce Meyer, the fast rising Word of Faith female preacher. On Aug. 31, 1998 on her morning broadcast admitted that she had breast cancer and was MEDICALLY TREATED. I found her admission to be very interesting.

9. Prophet Keith Grayton, Prophetic Movement - died of the complications of AIDS He spoke at our Church in Detroit, and declared he was totally healed. He died a year or so later.

10. Kenneth Hagin, "father" of the Word of Faith Movement - sister died of cancer, (he wears glasses as does his son). Hagin’s great faith and special anointing could not keep her on the planet or his eyesight from growing dim.
10a. Hagin's sister died from cancer.
10b. Hagin's wife had to go to the hospital for an operation even though Jesus "appeared" to Hagin and gave him a special anointing to heal the sick (read I Believe In Visions). If people believe Hagin is anointed then they will be healed, I guess his own family members doubt his healing powers.

11. Robert Tilton, God's "profit" admitted he had to get special face-lifting surgery because of the danger of getting ink poisoning from laying on all the prayer requests he received. Why didn't he command healing . . .like he does for countless others over the airwaves?"
...

Katherine Kuhlman - an acknowledged divine healer DIED from heart disease in Tulsa OK, Oral Roberts could not heal her!
A.A. Allen - an acknowledged divine healer and exorcist DIED from alcohol & drug abuse.
Aimee Semple McPherson - an acknowledge divine healer - died of a barbiturate overdose. Why was she taking pills in the first place? Wasn't the "peace" of God enough for her?
Jack Coe - an acknowledged divine healer DIED from disease.
John G. Lake - DIED of a stroke in 1935. He is held up as a great "healer" and miracle worker.
Gordon Lindsey- DIED either of a stroke or heart condition. Yet he propagated the Healing Revival of the lates 1940's and early 1950's. Why?

...
1. Robert Tilton, Word of Faith Televangelist - 2 divorces, multiple law suits, caught in many lies, utters many false prophecies, uses unscrupulous means to garner millions from God's "gullible."

2. Peter Popoff, Televangelist - a proven fraud (read "The Faith Healers" by James Randi)

3. W.V. Grant, Televangelist - convicted felon for tax fraud, a divorcee.

4. Leroy Jenkins, Televangelist - convicted felon for arson & assault.

5. Jimmy Swaggert, Televangelist - adulterer, opulent lifestyle while crying broke on television.

6. Marilyn Hickey, Word of Faith teacher - shameless use of charismatic trinkets (blessed cornmeal, oils, cloths, seeds, coins, etc.).

7. Marjoe Gortner, came from 3 generations of Pentecostal preachers. He laid hands on multitudes to give them the "gift" of tongues. . . yet he himself was not saved. He admitted this publicly, and made a movie showing him in action. Unsaved, yet seeming to flow in the miraculous.

8. Jim Bakker, convicted felon. Jim & Tammy lived high off the hog for many years. Later they divorced, and in jail the Lord seems to have dealt with Jim and I think he has repented.

9. E.W. Kenyon, divorced his wife yet taught that faith is a law that works by another law, the law of love! We are told by WOF teachers that Kenyon was a man of faith and power - but how could his "god-kind-of-faith" been in operation if he could not even love his wife properly?

Sick Healers?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Hello John,
I was perplexed about this same question.
Why do some get healed and some do Not?

God is not a vending machine. He chooses to heal or not to heal according to his will.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

How about refreshing my mind here Daniel. When were we talking about a dead man being brought back to life in this thread... that I ignored? Yes, the dead man was not aware of the situation since He was... dead! lol. How could he have faith, [and] the dead mans bones were from Elisha not... Elijah.

This was an example of a miracle of God. This situation was found in 2 Kings 13:21. Long story short, when this man died, his body was thrown into Elisha's grave (tomb) that touched the bones of Elisha, and this guy returned to life. The anointing of God was all over and remained on Elisha's bones... even when he was long dead. It was a miracle of God!

Remember in Acts, you can find how 'handkerchiefs and aprons' that had (actually) touched Paul’s body that healed the sick... and, get this!… This happened even though Paul was not even there (Acts 19:11-12). Another anointing miracle! This time God used handkerchiefs and aprons.

Also, a chariot of fire with (horses of fire) appeared to Elijah and Elisha that took Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind (another miracle). And finally, as Elijah was taken up... his mantel (anointing) fell on Elisha with double portion (another miracle).

Lets go one more! Elisha also stood on the bank of the Jordan River, struck the water and asked: Where is the LORD God of Elijah?” (What happened?) The LORD responded by dividing the water and Elisha crossed over. Elisha then had a continued ministry of miracles, signs and wonders.

These are just a few miracles of God that happened with or without any faith being applied from anyone. Could these miracles be these examples of the faith of God? Many WOF believe that. Something to think about... since this is a WOF forum. We are indeed peculiar people.

You have a fine day...

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Yes, II kings is the text.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Good Night all and God bless