ALL Scriptures For and Against Once Saved Always Saved

[yeshuaslavejeff]

My assurance is fully in Christ and His merits

That is our prayer and hope for you, yes.
"nothing in you" except rejecting part of His Word as noted already multiple times.
That may or may not affect the rest of your life and the life to come - not by itself, but with the associated errors/ false beliefs.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

If you do not believe that Christ paid in full price for your sins at cross then you head straight to hell you were never born again .

Good news of salvation is not that you have to earn your salvation but that it's free .
Psalms 49:7
Ephesians

You missed his point and are wrongfully declaring him to not be born again.

 

[MDC]

Hello MDC,

I know I am born again because I hear the voice of God and His Christ. I am covered by His blood and I am in the grace of God and in the love of God. But I know also that Jesus said: ABIDE in my love.

You see I don't think my righteous deeds and obedience maintains my salvation. It is more that when I look at scriptures, I see many verses that say that we have to ABIDE in the VINE, CONTINUE in the Faith, continue IN THE GRACE of God.

It is not abiding by works, it is abiding by CONTINUED FAITH. And Faith without works is dead as James says. So if we are known by our fruits, how will we shine Christ if we don't risk something on Him, if we don't act on our faith.

The thing is if I am abiding in the vine, that does not mean I am earning my salvation. But that doesn't mean I can willingly go back to a deliberate lifestyle of sin. If I do that, that means either that I were never saved or that I turned my back to God and let myself be deceived.

The number of scriptures going against OSAS is just too many.

God bless you

Yes we are to abide in Christ! And a tree is known by its fruit. And the just shall live by faith. All this is true but yet there is still doubt of assurance correct? It is why the focus of losing salvation was brought up. You cannot lose what you didn’t earn to begin with. Salvation is by Gods Sovereign grace. All of grace. A good tree will bear good fruit. This is the result of being saved and regenerated by Gods life giving Spirit in Christ. A new creation. A new heart that desires righteousness and hates his own sinful flesh. A heart that lays hold upon Christ, as his only hope of deliverance from sin and the guilt of it. A corrupt tree or tare, will produce corrupt fruit. Whether it be in deed or doctrine. So the elect in God can never lose salvation. Because eternal life is in Christ. Do you believe this? Or hold to works as being the basis for final salvation

 

[MDC]

That is our prayer and hope for you, yes.
"nothing in you" except rejecting part of His Word as noted already multiple times.
That may or may not affect the rest of your life and the life to come - not by itself, but with the associated errors/ false beliefs.

Rejecting the corruption of relying upon my works as justification before God? You keep that and know there’s no hope in this heresy

 

[MDC]

again, non sequitur. Invalid rationalization , as YHVH allows many to be taken in by their own delusions and false teachings directly opposed to so much Scripture and contrary to Jesus' Indwelling LIFE.

Your fight is with your fellow inconsistent Arminians who hold to a form of antinomianism and eternal security. Because as long as you keep dodging my question, your foundation is yourself and “law” keeping

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Hello everyone,

I am interested in getting people's opinion on something. After I became a born again Christian I was surprised to discover how spread the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" is. From my reading of the Bible, I would have never really got the impression that we can never lose our salvation. In fact, I was convinced that to be saved we have to keep our faith until the end.

Because of many conversations with other believers, I have made it my objective to discover the truth so I gathered all scriptures used for and against this doctrine and put them on my website at this link: Once Saved Always Saved Verses

This reinforced my position that this doctrine is not true. But I am interested in knowing the opinion of others on this matter. I know it is much to read but just looking at the page and comparing the number of scriptures for each side is already surprising.

Is it me or the number of scriptures telling us that we have to endure until the end to be saved much more than the other side? I also feel the people who believe in Once Saved Always Saved always use the same verses and push into them things they don't really say. While the scriptures against it are much more obvious and straight-forward.

I am interested to know if there is something I am missing.

Thank you all. Any opinion is appreciated.

I agree with you. My study of what God has said confirms what you shared. Others get confused because they think that accepting everything Jesus said means that we somehow earned salvation when in actuality all we did is refuse to throw away the gift in favor of worldly desires.

 

[Asaph George]

Yes we are to abide in Christ! And a tree is known by its fruit. And the just shall live by faith. All this is true but yet there is still doubt of assurance correct? It is why the focus of losing salvation was brought up. You cannot lose what you didn’t earn to begin with. Salvation is by Gods Sovereign grace. All of grace. A good tree will bear good fruit. This is the result of being saved and regenerated by Gods life giving Spirit in Christ. A new creation. A new heart that desires righteousness and hates his own sinful flesh. A heart that lays hold upon Christ, as his only hope of deliverance from sin and the guilt of it. A corrupt tree or tare, will produce corrupt fruit. Whether it be in deed or doctrine. So the elect in God can never lose salvation. Because eternal life is in Christ. Do you believe this? Or hold to works as being the basis for final salvation

Hey MDC,

I don't understand it brother. If something is a free gift, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be cherished and preserved. The grace of God is that we can be saved to begin with after the disobedience in the garden.

You said "You cannot lose what you didn't earn to begin with", that is nowhere in the scriptures my brother. A free gift that is given is not earned, we agree on that. If you keep it that doesn't mean you earned it, why? Because you have it.

We are betrothed to Christ, the Spirit is earnest a deposit that guarantees our salvation, yes. That is if we keep it. This is like a man who wants to marry a woman, to get engaged, he gives her a ring. This ring is an indication that she belongs to him, other men will see that she is taken, she belongs to another. No one can come and take her away from this strong man. However if she goes around and cheats on him, he would certainly know about it and he would not proceed with the marriage. we have to be faithful.

There are scriptures that say we have to have hope and assurance. But there are also other verses that say that if we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Another says that whoever thinks he stand let him take heed lest he falls. It all has to fit my brother like a big puzzle. We cannot pick the verses that suit a doctrine and ignore/twist the others.

We have to prove from scriptures that we can never lose our salvation, not cling to what we have been taught and look at scriptures from a window of preconceived doctrine.

John 15 is one of the best scriptures that show that we can lose our salvation and yet people don't want to see it.

Can you discuss it? Here is the passage (hope we can discuss in a loving way):

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Can you explain verse 2?

Every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit he takes away. What does that mean? You know what IN CHRIST means.

God bless you!

 

[MDC]

Hey MDC,

I don't understand it brother. If something is a free gift, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be cherished and preserved. The grace of God is that we can be saved to begin with after the disobedience in the garden.

You said "You cannot lose what you didn't earn to begin with", that is nowhere in the scriptures my brother. A free gift that is given is not earned, we agree on that. If you keep it that doesn't mean you earned it, why? Because you have it.

We are betrothed to Christ, the Spirit is earnest a deposit that guarantees our salvation, yes. That is if we keep it. This is like a man who wants to marry a woman, to get engaged, he gives her a ring. This ring is an indication that she belongs to him, other men will see that she is taken, she belongs to another. No one can come and take her away from this strong man. However if she goes around and cheats on him, he would certainly know about it and he would not proceed with the marriage. we have to be faithful.

There are scriptures that say we have to have hope and assurance. But there are also other verses that say that if we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Another says that whoever thinks he stand let him take heed lest he falls. It all has to fit my brother like a big puzzle. We cannot pick the verses that suit a doctrine and ignore/twist the others.

We have to prove from scriptures that we can never lose our salvation, not cling to what we have been taught and look at scriptures from a window of preconceived doctrine.

John 15 is one of the best scriptures that show that we can lose our salvation and yet people don't want to see it.

Can you discuss it? Here is the passage (hope we can discuss in a loving way):

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Can you explain verse 2?

Every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit he takes away. What does that mean? You know what IN CHRIST means.

God bless you!

We have to prove from scripture that we can never lose our salvation?? What? That’s like saying, you must prove from scripture eternal life isn’t in Christ. That’s exactly what you are asking! It makes no sense. But this is exactly what those are saying when they teach loss of salvation by works. The grace of God that saves isn’t a possibility to be saved. It IS what saves. The election of grace! Eternal life is secure, simply because it is by Gods Sovereign will and power conditioned solely in Christ and His merits alone. The only works acceptable before God for salvation is Christ and His merits alone. Do you believe this? If not then it is why there is no assurance. As far as John 15, those who are being cut off are nothing more than false professors, tares among wheat, fruitless wolves among sheep. I’m sure you’ve studied the parable of the sower correct? Do you believe all the soils were saved believers? The good ground (regeneration) that the seed takes root (Christ) and bares fruit, some 100, 60, 30 fold, these are the elect of God, chosen by God for salvation and Christ’s sheep, which bear the fruit and evidence of repentance. The stony ground and thorns are the tares, false professors, who has not the root and God allows to grow among the wheat

 

[Asaph George]

We have to prove from scripture that we can never lose our salvation?? What? That’s like saying, you must prove from scripture eternal life isn’t in Christ. That’s exactly what you are asking! It makes no sense.

Hello MDC,

my brother until now I have not seen any scripture. It is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of scriptures. Simply stating something doesn't make it so.

Yes Eternal life is in Christ, that is why we have to stay IN CHRIST to have eternal life. The Spirit is Life and this Spirit is an investment God made in us, we have to keep it and preserve it. That is what I see from scriptures.

Again preserving a free gift is not earning it. After I became born again, I strive hard to stay on the narrow road, I have forsaken sin by the power of the Holy Spirit. If I go back willingly to a lifestyle of sin, I will be cut off. If I also am fruitless to the Kingdom I will be cut off.

You said: "As far as John 15, those who are being cut off are nothing more than false professors, tares among wheat, fruitless wolves among sheep."

There is nothing in that figure that even alludes to the fruitless branches being some kind of false brothers. This is something put in there to make it fit with the preconceived doctrine.

He said: EVERY branch IN ME that doesn't bear fruit will be cut off. He is saying they are branches. Branches are branches because they are attached to the Vine. They extract living sap (Spirit) by the Vine (Jesus). But if we are in Christ, we have to LET the Spirit produce the fruit for the Kingdom. That is because we can resist the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:51 - You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.

If we can resist the Holy Spirit that means the branch can prevent the Holy Spirit from producing the fruit for the Kingdom. That is why Jesus cursed the fig tree when it didn't produce in its season, He meant to say that it is the fault of the tree.

Now notice here,

John 15:6 - If anyone does not abide (remain, stay) in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Jesus is saying to ABIDE IN HIM. To say that we have to abide (remain) in Him, means that we are already in. If I say to you, remain in the house, that means you are already in the house.

Why does the branch wither? Because it got cut off from the vine. That means the branch was living. Why was it living? Because it was in the vine and extracts life (SPIRIT) from the vine. The Spirit is life.

To make the branches some kind of false brothers, or false teachers is just pushing things INTO scriptures to make them say something they don't say. All this to make the passage fit with OSAS.

Can you answer for John 15:6 please?

Thank you brother MDC. All this with love.

God bless you!

 

[Wet Squirrel]

I believe that we are saved by Christ and that His blood paid the full price of my sins.

But I believe that after I am born again, if I turn my back to God and go back to a deliberate lifestyle of sin, I can fall away from the faith and be cut off.

Am I still going to hell?

If it's paid in full then why do you still want to pay for it ? Logic

It's paid in full in advance , he paid in advance because he lived 2000 years before you were born .

If you do not trust that Jesus took ALL of your sin , present , past and future you will wake up in hell because you trust your own works rather than finished job of God .

 

[Wet Squirrel]

Hello MDC,

my brother until now I have not seen any scripture. It is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of scriptures. Simply stating something doesn't make it so.

Yes Eternal life is in Christ, that is why we have to stay IN CHRIST to have eternal life. The Spirit is Life and this Spirit is an investment God made in us, we have to keep it and preserve it. That is what I see from scriptures.

Again preserving a free gift is not earning it. After I became born again, I strive hard to stay on the narrow road, I have forsaken sin by the power of the Holy Spirit. If I go back willingly to a lifestyle of sin, I will be cut off. If I also am fruitless to the Kingdom I will be cut off.

You said: "As far as John 15, those who are being cut off are nothing more than false professors, tares among wheat, fruitless wolves among sheep."

There is nothing in that figure that even alludes to the fruitless branches being some kind of false brothers. This is something put in there to make it fit with the preconceived doctrine.

He said: EVERY branch IN ME that doesn't bear fruit will be cut off. He is saying they are branches. Branches are branches because they are attached to the Vine. They extract living sap (Spirit) by the Vine (Jesus). But if we are in Christ, we have to LET the Spirit produce the fruit for the Kingdom. That is because we can resist the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:51 - You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.

If we can resist the Holy Spirit that means the branch can prevent the Holy Spirit from producing the fruit for the Kingdom. That is why Jesus cursed the fig tree when it didn't produce in its season, He meant to say that it is the fault of the tree.

Now notice here,

John 15:6 - If anyone does not abide (remain, stay) in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Jesus is saying to ABIDE IN HIM. To say that we have to abide (remain) in Him, means that we are already in. If I say to you, remain in the house, that means you are already in the house.

Why does the branch wither? Because it got cut off from the vine. That means the branch was living. Why was it living? Because it was in the vine and extracts life (SPIRIT) from the vine. The Spirit is life.

To make the branches some kind of false brothers, or false teachers is just pushing things INTO scriptures to make them say something they don't say. All this to make the passage fit with OSAS.

Can you answer for John 15:6 please?

Thank you brother MDC. All this with love.

God bless you!

Some people don't understand what eternal means , eternal is not temporary , if you could lose something which was eternal then it could not be eternal in first place .

 

[Asaph George]

If it's paid in full then why do you still want to pay for it ? Logic

It's paid in full in advance , he paid in advance because he lived 2000 years before you were born .

If you do not trust that Jesus took ALL of your sin , present , past and future you will wake up in hell because you trust your own works rather than finished job of God .

Unfortunately it is not a matter of opinion brother. It is a matter of scriptures.

Having eternal life, means that we are presently in the state of having it. Why? Because we have the Spirit of God and the Spirit IS LIFE.

I have put the scriptures for you, John 15 above. Can you explain it?

feel free to dig deep into it and tell me how you explain it. We can't base the whole gospel on one word, it all has to fit.

Repentance is not a one time thing, it is about changing our mind about sin, in other words, deciding to turn away from sin and live in the will of God through the Spirit. This is the Holy Spirit, which will be in us. Paul says walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the desires of the flesh. That means if we don't walk in the Spirit, we will fulfill the desires of the flesh.

You can take the word "eternal", and just base the whole Bible on it. That is to your prerogative brother.

God bless you, all in love!

 

[Wet Squirrel]

Unfortunately it is not a matter of opinion brother. It is a matter of scriptures.

Having eternal life, means that we are presently in the state of having it. Why? Because we have the Spirit of God and the Spirit IS LIFE.

I have put the scriptures for you, John 15 above. Can you explain it?

feel free to dig deep into it and tell me how you explain it. We can't base the whole gospel on one word, it all has to fit.

Repentance is not a one time thing, it is about changing our mind about sin, in other words, deciding to turn away from sin and live in the will of God through the Spirit. This is the Holy Spirit, which will be in us. Paul says walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the desires of the flesh. That means if we don't walk in the Spirit, we will fulfill the desires of the flesh.

You can take the word "eternal", and just base the whole Bible on it. That is to your prerogative brother.

God bless you, all in love!

You have two births , first your sinful one form your mother and father and second from God , your sinful earthly ones produces no fruit and even when it does God will still never accept it because Good tree produce only good fruit , if it has 1 bad fruit it's bad tree .

Your second birth is of God and you can never sin because you are born of God's spirit and it can't sin , your spirit produce only good fruits .

That's why your earthly spirt birth will still cause you to die on this earth , while your second birth make you unable to die because it can't sin .

 

[Asaph George]

You have two births , first your sinful one form your mother and father and second from God , your sinful earthly ones produces no fruit and even when it does God will still never accept it because Good tree produce only good fruit , if it has 1 ban fruit it's bad tree .

Your second birth is of God and you can never sin because you are born of God's spirit and it can't sin , your spirit produce only good fruits .

That's why your earthly spirt birth will still cause you to die on this earth , while your second birth make you unable to die because it can't sin .

That doesn't answer John 15 which says that the branch that doesn't ABIDE, will be cast out into the fire.

But I get your point. I never argue with OSAS believers who really apply that: "if we continue sinning wilfully that means we were never saved to begin with" even though it is not in my Bible.

We have to dig deep into the scriptures, you saw that Jesus is saying any branch IN ME. IN CHRIST means born again? Do you agree?

ABIDE means stay, it means to remain in something, do you agree?

Or are we going to ignore this to make this fit with a preconceived doctrine?

You see that in the case of the word "eternal" you put emphasis on it, because it fits with OSAS, but when it comes with the words "ABIDE" and "IN ME", you are not doing the same, why?

God bless you brother, all is with love!

 

[Wet Squirrel]

That doesn't answer John 15 which says that the branch that doesn't ABIDE, will be cast out into the fire.

But I get your point. I never argue with OSAS believers who really apply that: "if we continue sinning wilfully that means we were never saved to begin with" even though it is not in my Bible.

We have to dig deep into the scriptures, you saw that Jesus is saying any branch IN ME. IN CHRIST means born again? Do you agree?

ABIDE means stay, it means to remain in something, do you agree?

Or are we going to ignore this to make this fit with a preconceived doctrine?

You see that in the case of the word "eternal" you put emphasis on it, because it fits with OSAS, but when it comes with the words "ABIDE" and "IN ME", you are not doing the same, why?

God bless you brother, all is with love!

No we don't have to dig deep it's clearly not of works . If you watch that video it will explain it to you trust me .

If God could save you at 70 years old after you did all bad things and you die 1 min after then it's even easier for him to save you when you are 20 and keep you from most of the sin with Holy Spirit .

 

[Asaph George]

No we don't have to dig deep it's clearly not of works . If you watch that video it will explain it to you trust me .

If God could save you at 70 years old after you did all bad things and you die 1 min after then it's even easier for him to save you when you are 20 and keep you from most of the sin with Holy Spirit .

Hello again,

Ok so you are saying we don't have to dwell on John 15's verses because they are using words that don't fit with a preconceived doctrine.

As I said brother, it is not a matter of examples and opinion, it is about the Word of God, the Bible.

If you want to discuss scriptures, we can discuss. John 15 is one of dozens of scriptures I can give you that show that if we don't endure until the end, we will not be saved.

We are saved now yes but we have to keep the faith. If the apostle Paul did it, we have to do it too, I am sure we all know that Paul was saved.

1 Corinthians 9:27 - But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

God bless you brother. All with love!

 

[Wet Squirrel]

Hello again,

Ok so you are saying we don't have to dwell on John 15's verses because they are using words that don't fit with a preconceived doctrine.

As I said brother, it is not a matter of examples and opinion, it is about the Word of God, the Bible.

If you want to discuss scriptures, we can discuss. John 15 is one of dozens of scriptures I can give you that show that if we don't endure until the end, we will not be saved.

We are saved now yes but we have to keep the faith. If the apostle Paul did it, we have to do it too, I am sure we all know that Paul was saved.

1 Corinthians 9:27 - But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

God bless you brother. All with love!

You can forfit your inheritance by disobedience and willful sin yes .

 

[Asaph George]

You can forfit your inheritance by disobedience and willful sin yes .

Wow that took me by surprise.

God bless you!

 

[Wet Squirrel]

Wow that took me by surprise.

God bless you!

Inheritance =/= salvation

 

[Phil 1:21]

First and most importantly, welcome to the Body of Christ!

After I became a born again Christian I was surprised to discover how spread the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" is. From my reading of the Bible, I would have never really got the impression that we can never lose our salvation. In fact, I was convinced that to be saved we have to keep our faith until the end.

Are you under the impression that those two things are contradictory -- OSAS and enduring until the end? I see nothing contradictory there at all.

But there are also other verses that say that if we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Yes, Philippians 2:12 says "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Not "work for," but "work out." Those two have very different meanings. Ephesians 2:10 sheds a little light on this, as does James 2:14-26

John 15:6 - If anyone does not abide (remain, stay) in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Jesus is saying to ABIDE IN HIM. To say that we have to abide (remain) in Him, means that we are already in. If I say to you, remain in the house, that means you are already in the house.

See 1 John 2:19