ALL Scriptures For and Against Once Saved Always Saved

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
lol granted brother. I just don't think necessarily that thinking that we can lose salvation automatically leads to be miserable and anxious all the time.
ALL the ekklesia KNEW they could lose , yet they were CONTINUALLY FULL OF PEACE < JOY < AND RIGHTEOUSNESS
DAILY, overflowing in GRACE FROM YHVH IN JESUS.

NO anxiety, even in prison, even when arrested, even when slaughtered for the sake of the GOSPEL.

SEE MANY EXAMPLES of martyrs who died instead of losing their salvation by denying CHRIST, in FOXES BOOK OF MARTYRS free online. Thousands DIED instead of losing their salvation. Many AFTER severe torture, and seeing their wives or husbands or children slaughtered by butchers in front of their eyes . (religious leaders doing the killing and murder , butchers in the name of .... whatever they were )
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Asaph George
Upvote 0

Southernscotty

Well-Known Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2018
6,616
9,612
52
Arkansas
✟504,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Celibate
lol granted brother. I just don't think necessarily that thinking that we can lose salvation automatically leads to be miserable and anxious all the time.

There are many scriptures to comfort us in our walk in Christ. But this comfort and assurance comes from day by day and moment by moment walk with Christ in the Spirit. If we are in the Spirit, we are assured and we have hope. But from there to say that this means we are eternally secure is pushing it, I don't see that in the Bible and I read the Bible countless times.

God bless :)
See there are many who I see on here, who do let their fear over these things make them miserable on a daily basis. So their fear of failure destroys them because they can't stop failing God and God is not the author of confusion.
I rest solely in the fact that I am covered by the blood. When it comes time to stand before God, All I can honestly do is plead this precious Blood for my sins, because I am nothing with a my mediator which is Christ Jesus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Asaph George
Upvote 0

Southernscotty

Well-Known Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2018
6,616
9,612
52
Arkansas
✟504,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Celibate
ALL the ekklesia KNEW they could lose , yet they were CONTINUALLY FULL OF PEACE < JOY < AND RIGHTEOUSNESS
DAILY, overflowing in GRACE FROM YHVH IN JESUS.

NO anxiety, even in prison, even when arrested, even when slaughtered for the sake of the GOSPEL.

SEE MANY EXAMPLES of martyrs who died instead of losing their salvation by denying CHRIST, in FOXES BOOK OF MARTYRS free online. Thousands DIED instead of losing their salvation. Many AFTER severe torture, and seeing their wives or husbands or children slaughtered by butchers in front of their eyes . (religious leaders doing the killing and murder , butchers in the name of .... whatever they were )
I highly recommend Foxes book of Martyrs. Have it in my bookshelf right now :]
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
See there are many who I see on here, who do let their fear over these things make them miserable on a daily basis. So their fear of failure destroys them because they can't stop failing God and God is not the author of confusion.
THIS is very very common - much more common than truth is.
Many who you see anywhere are not saved, remember.

When /if/ the truth is known, and they really are saved, they have peace and joy that no one can touch, no fear and no anxiety except
as YHVH says in HIS WORD when HE SAYS "be terrified (you believers) lest anyone be found lacking, falling short ....." .....
 
Upvote 0

Asaph George

Disciple of Christ
Site Supporter
Jan 11, 2018
77
27
43
montreal
Visit site
✟31,167.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
BTW, while I hold to the Perseverance of the Saints (and therefore the proper understanding of OSAS), I also believe that none will be saved except those who persevere in the faith to the end. However, those who are regenerate/have been "born again" .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26; John 3:3, who have been created by God as "new creatures" in Christ and have become His workmanship/masterpiece by grace through faith .. Ephesians 2:8-10, will persevere in the faith to the end, because the very One who saved us in the first place has promised to see us safely through this life to Glory :amen: .. e.g. Philippians 1:6, 2:13; Hebrews 7:25 cf John 6:37-40, 44; John 10:27-28; 1 John 5:13.

Yours in Christ,
David

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me and ..
of all that He has given Me, I lose nothing,
but raise it up on the last day"
John 6:37-40

(excerpt)

:) Thank you, as I said I can never go against Christians who really believe like you do. I personally think one can lose salvation. But that should not prevent us from being brothers in Christ, especially since I think we can have the Spirit but not have always the doctrinal issues the same.

When I became born again I was still a Catholic lol. God knew my heart and taught me the truth with time.

I would be interested in discussing with you one day. You seem like a reasonable person.

God bless
 
  • Like
Reactions: St_Worm2
Upvote 0

JESUS=G.O.A.T

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2016
2,681
659
27
Houston
✟68,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Hello everyone,

I am interested in getting people's opinion on something. After I became a born again Christian I was surprised to discover how spread the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" is. From my reading of the Bible, I would have never really got the impression that we can never lose our salvation. In fact, I was convinced that to be saved we have to keep our faith until the end.

Because of many conversations with other believers, I have made it my objective to discover the truth so I gathered all scriptures used for and against this doctrine and put them on my website at this link: Once Saved Always Saved Verses

This reinforced my position that this doctrine is not true. But I am interested in knowing the opinion of others on this matter. I know it is much to read but just looking at the page and comparing the number of scriptures for each side is already surprising.

Is it me or the number of scriptures telling us that we have to endure until the end to be saved much more than the other side? I also feel the people who believe in Once Saved Always Saved always use the same verses and push into them things they don't really say. While the scriptures against it are much more obvious and straight-forward.

I am interested to know if there is something I am missing.

Thank you all. Any opinion is appreciated.
no you're right... there are a preponderance of scriptures indicating that OSAS is false. One I often quote from memory is 1 timothy 4:1.

There is also a scripture that says to examine your self whereby you still be in the faith.. If one was truly OSAS no matter what...one wouldn't have to examine themselves to see if they still were in the faith. There also wouldn't be a need for refillings of the holy ghost per say...if just one filling was enough to be set to make it above.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Asaph George
Upvote 0

Asaph George

Disciple of Christ
Site Supporter
Jan 11, 2018
77
27
43
montreal
Visit site
✟31,167.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
See there are many who I see on here, who do let their fear over these things make them miserable on a daily basis. So their fear of failure destroys them because they can't stop failing God and God is not the author of confusion.
I rest solely in the fact that I am covered by the blood. When it comes time to stand before God, All I can honestly do is plead this precious Blood for my sins, because I am nothing with a my mediator which is Christ Jesus.

Of course there are some people who do fail God but the thing is don't we agree that Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil? Don't we believe that Jesus Christ can FREE us from sin?

Jesus says: any sinner is a slave of sin, whoever the Son sets free will be FREE INDEED.

The issue is not perfection, it is a matter of mindset. For example, there are many guys who think they are saved, yet they are living in habitual deliberate sin. They are enslaved by sin. For example: inappropriate contentography, adultery, etc..

There is a difference between being mastered by sin and falling unwillingly into sin. For example, when it comes to perfection, we know we will always fall, for example: get angry with my wife, curse out of anger, isolated incidents of white lies not to hurt people's feelings.. But this is not the same as going back deliberately to sin, going to strip clubs, fornicating, watching inappropriate contentography, etc..

These are planned sins. I don't believe one will be saved if they continue in these things.

Another thing is I always feel that as soon as I say, we can lose our salvation, people take it as if I am saying I am earning it. I WILL NEVER EARN IT. But preserving what God gave me as a free gift is not earning it, it is standing in faith. Faith and Faithfulness are the same word in original greek.

I know that I fight everyday to keep myself away from sin, yet I know this is not what earns me salvation. This is only to stay in the presence of God, to abide in His words, Abide in the vine and continue in the faith.

God bless you
 
Upvote 0

MDC

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2017
1,127
511
48
Texas
✟59,701.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
I believe that we are saved by Christ and that His blood paid the full price of my sins.

But I believe that after I am born again, if I turn my back to God and go back to a deliberate lifestyle of sin, I can fall away from the faith and be cut off.

Am I still going to hell?
What makes you think you have been regenerated by Gods Spirit? And if you do believe you are saved by Christ and His blood, why then do you believe your righteous deeds and obedience KEEPS or MAINTAINS your salvation? This is contradictory! And the fallacy of those who teach that the elect in Christ can lose salvation. A repentant heart fully rest in Christ and His merits alone as his assurance of eternal life
 
  • Like
Reactions: Asaph George
Upvote 0

MDC

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2017
1,127
511
48
Texas
✟59,701.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
ALL the ekklesia KNEW they could lose , yet they were CONTINUALLY FULL OF PEACE < JOY < AND RIGHTEOUSNESS
DAILY, overflowing in GRACE FROM YHVH IN JESUS.

NO anxiety, even in prison, even when arrested, even when slaughtered for the sake of the GOSPEL.

SEE MANY EXAMPLES of martyrs who died instead of losing their salvation by denying CHRIST, in FOXES BOOK OF MARTYRS free online. Thousands DIED instead of losing their salvation. Many AFTER severe torture, and seeing their wives or husbands or children slaughtered by butchers in front of their eyes . (religious leaders doing the killing and murder , butchers in the name of .... whatever they were )
Why makes you think you’ve done enough to stay saved in the end?
 
Upvote 0
Nov 3, 2017
8
7
Dallas
✟8,709.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
You are granted one baptism for the remission of sins and entrance into the New Covenant (Ephesians 4:5 KJV)

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"

This one baptism, saves you. (1 Peter 3:21 KJV)

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

It is possible to sin after you baptism, which is where you were saved as 1 Peter 3:21 attests.

These post-baptismal sins are taken into account when you are judged. You WILL be judged based on your deeds. (Romans 2:6-8 KJV)

"Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,"

Therefore - OSAS can not be true.

Be baptized and obey God's commandments.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Asaph George

Disciple of Christ
Site Supporter
Jan 11, 2018
77
27
43
montreal
Visit site
✟31,167.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What makes you think you have been regenerated by Gods Spirit? And if you do believe you are saved by Christ and His blood, why then do you believe your righteous deeds and obedience KEEPS or MAINTAINS your salvation? This is contradictory! And the fallacy of those who teach that the elect in Christ can lose salvation. A repentant heart fully rest in Christ and His merits alone as his assurance of eternal life

Hello MDC,

I know I am born again because I hear the voice of God and His Christ. I am covered by His blood and I am in the grace of God and in the love of God. But I know also that Jesus said: ABIDE in my love.

You see I don't think my righteous deeds and obedience maintains my salvation. It is more that when I look at scriptures, I see many verses that say that we have to ABIDE in the VINE, CONTINUE in the Faith, continue IN THE GRACE of God.

It is not abiding by works, it is abiding by CONTINUED FAITH. And Faith without works is dead as James says. So if we are known by our fruits, how will we shine Christ if we don't risk something on Him, if we don't act on our faith.

The thing is if I am abiding in the vine, that does not mean I am earning my salvation. But that doesn't mean I can willingly go back to a deliberate lifestyle of sin. If I do that, that means either that I were never saved or that I turned my back to God and let myself be deceived.

The number of scriptures going against OSAS is just too many.

God bless you
 
Upvote 0

MDC

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2017
1,127
511
48
Texas
✟59,701.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Hi Asaph, there are a number of things in your article that I'd like to discuss, unfortunately that cannot happen right now. What I will do is leave you with a few verses that I don't believe you included in your article concerning what we Calvinists call the Perseverance of the Saints (which is what the "P" in our famous little acrostic TULIP stands for).

When the Bible speaks of those who have received αἰώνιος [aionios] "eternal" life, it never means "temporary" or "probationary" life.

John 5
24 He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment [will not be condemned], but has passed out of death into life.

John 6
37 ALL that the Father gives Me WILL come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10
26 You do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Romans 8
1 There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7
25 He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

1 John 5:13
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I'd like to make one quick point about something you wrote in your article.

...if this doctrine (OSAS) is false, then it is very dangerous* because it has the potential of removing personal responsibility and accountability when it comes to one’s relationship with God. After all, if we are saved, and there is nothing we can do to lose salvation, then why does it really matter how we act and why worry that much about it?
If a person who claims to be a Christian truly thinks like this, then I can all but guarantee you that their "claim" of being a believer is nothing more than that :preach: That's the thing about OSAS, it's really all about the "Once Saved" part, isn't it ;)

*(the real "danger"< IMHO, lies in the fact that many who think they are "always saved" never were in the first place :eek: .. e.g. Matthew 7:22-23)

BTW, while I hold to the Perseverance of the Saints (and therefore the proper understanding of OSAS), I also believe that none will be saved except those who persevere in the faith to the end. However, those who are regenerate/have been "born again" .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26; John 3:3, who have been created by God as "new creatures" in Christ and have become His workmanship/masterpiece by grace through faith .. Ephesians 2:8-10, will persevere in the faith to the end, because the very One who saved us in the first place has promised to see us safely through this life to Glory :amen: .. e.g. Philippians 1:6, 2:13; Hebrews 7:25 cf John 6:37-40, 44; John 10:27-28; 1 John 5:13.

Yours in Christ,
David

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me and ..
of all that He has given Me, I lose nothing,
but raise it up on the last day"
John 6:37-40

(excerpt)
The soteriology according to “Calvinism” is biblical truth. And the only true understanding of salvation by grace alone
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
The soteriology according to “Calvinism” is biblical truth. And the only true understanding of salvation by grace alone
Maybe. Maybe not. (many disagree) and "Calvinists" cannot prove it from Scripture by grace through faith in Jesus.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Why makes you think you’ve done enough to stay saved in the end?
What makes you think you've done enough to stay saved at all ?
If any part of God's Word is denied by yourself/ others / in your 'religion',
that is not in your favor, is it ?
 
Upvote 0

MDC

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2017
1,127
511
48
Texas
✟59,701.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
What makes you think you've done enough to stay saved at all ?
If any part of God's Word is denied by yourself/ others / in your 'religion',
that is not in your favor, is it ?
My assurance is fully in Christ and His merits. Nothing in me.. but yet you dodge the question simply because that’s impossible to answer coming from a works based heretical system
 
Upvote 0

MDC

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2017
1,127
511
48
Texas
✟59,701.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Maybe. Maybe not. (many disagree) and "Calvinists" cannot prove it from Scripture by grace through faith in Jesus.
Sure it’s been proven.. look at how many tares look to their works as justification before God. It is why “Calvinism” is hated. It exposes the corrupt fruit “law” keepers
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Sure it’s been proven.. look at how many tares look to their works as justification before God. It is why “Calvinism” is hated. It exposes the corrupt fruit “law” keepers
again, non sequitur. Invalid rationalization , as YHVH allows many to be taken in by their own delusions and false teachings directly opposed to so much Scripture and contrary to Jesus' Indwelling LIFE.
 
Upvote 0