ALL Scriptures For and Against Once Saved Always Saved

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,182,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It’s amazing how the Holy Spirit leads us into the truth.

I have been fighting this deception doctrine for years, and using all the same scriptures and arguments as these folks, and have never even heard of these people.

Awesome.

It’s so true what the Bible teaches us about all saying and teaching the same thing, so we will not be divided.


Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10


Heresy is any teaching that divides the body of Christ into sections or sects, as the are called.

Today they are called denominations, which are based on chosen beliefs, and is another meaning of heresy.

A belief that a person chooses.

We are to learn and grow and be taught from the scriptures, so as to renew our mind to the truth of what the inspired word of God teaches.

We don’t get to choose the parts we like, and disregard the other parts.


Those who promote these heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.



JLB

Dan Corner's Book is really exhaustive on covering a lot of verses, and I highly recommend it. It is really a good resource. Granted, I do not agree with every interpretation he says in his book (For example: He believes Solomon was unsaved - of which I disagree with). I also do not agree with his method of making a list of heretical believers on his website. Jesus says we are not to condemn (i.e. pass judgment on men while they still have time to repent). For they could repent tomorrow and not know about it and have them on a condemned list. Christians should be long suffering, and loving towards even their enemies. We have to show that we can love unlike the world can by allowing the Lord to shine within our lives; We are to do good in return towards those who do evil against us.

Side Note:

To see discuss about whether Solomon was saved or not, you can check out this recent thread I created here:

Was Solomon Saved?
 
Upvote 0

Exinanition

Active Member
Feb 20, 2018
26
11
70
Shreveport
✟17,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
:) Hey Exinanition,

My brother it is refreshing for me to discuss with someone such as yourself. Thank you for all these kind words! I have nothing but love for anyone proclaiming the name of Christ out loud. I believe we can be united in the Spirit even if we are not on the same page for some doctrine. This I learned not only from experience but also from the Word of God in the Scriptures (Philippians 2:1-2 and Ephesians 4 verses 3 and 12) where Paul says that we maintain unity in the Spirit until we attain the unity of the faith.

When it comes to OSAS, yes it may end up that we both stay with our position. That won't really sadden me in your case because I believe you are born again even though we may differ on this. You may realize also that I am very confident in my stand also. I hope this will not discourage you and if I also seem to be cold or if I insult or hurt you in any way, also let me know so that I also set things straight. May the Lord open our ears brother, we will never attain His infinite wisdom, that is for sure :)

THE HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE

Before we go into 1 John, I just want to say something about the study of a book in the Bible. For each book/epistle, there are always two perspectives from which to look at it: one historical and the other existential.

The historical perspective puts the book in its historical context. In other words, the apostle John didn't write the letter to us now and he didn't necessarily know that his letter will end up being part of the Bible we have. He had a reason to write it at the time, it is a true letter with a specific purpose. So we have to ask ourselves when, to whom he wrote it and above all why he wrote it. This is the historical perspective.

Then we have the existential perspective. This point of view looks at why has God left is for us in the Holy Bible. What is in it for us as Christians living in the world of today. Both these perspectives are important.

Now if we look at the historical perspective, we can start with the WHEN. We know that, as the Lord Jesus predicted, the beloved disciple John is the only one who lived to old age. His gospel and his three letters are written towards the end of the first century well after the other gospels and epistles. This is important because there is a historical context that the epistle fits into. This will give us a clue as to why the letter was written and to who from a historical perspective.

At the time, docetism (a branch of Gnosticism) has expanded and it is the idea that Jesus only appeared in a body and that he seemed to be human. That sets the context for a focal reason WHY the first epistle of John was written. We can see that at the beginning of the epistle:

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

We see the emphasis that John is putting on the fact that Jesus came as a human, they have heard Him, seen Him and touched Him. In other words, John is tackling docetism and wants His readers to understand that Jesus was truly alive in the flesh. Both fully God and fully man. This is taken up in chapter 2 where he talks about the AntiChrists. In chapter 2, John introduces the AntiChrists and suddenly we see John using "they", "you" and "us". This "they" is the AntiChrists who were trying to spread their lie that Jesus has not really come in the flesh.

Now as to WHO the letter was written to. This is spread all over the letter but it is obvious it is to born again believers. Why do I say this? Because John is pretty clear. Look at these verses:

1 John 2:12-14

12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.​

We see that John is writing unto what he calls little children, young men and fathers. John is of old age, and this is more of a grand fatherly letter. Little children are new born again Christians, while young men are more mature Christians that have had some experience, they have the Word of God in them (scriptures), they had some experience in overcoming the wicked one. Fathers are even more advanced because they know CHRIST as Eternal Son and Christ, Him that is from the beginning is Christ.

So the letter is directed at true born again believers to say the least.

This is also confirmed in verse 13 of chapter 5:

1 John 5:13

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.​

We see here something interesting. John is saying he is writing to born-again Christians who already believe in the Son, so they may know that they have eternal life (eternal life is in the Son verse 12) and that they CONTINUE believing in Him.

1 JOHN 2: BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS ARE EXHORTED TO CONTINUE IN THE FAITH TO BE SAVED

Now I did a post (#113) to brother Phill where I explained that, in chapter 2, John is talking to the little children (recent converts) to warn them not to be deceived by "they" the AntiChrists.

I will post it again here with additional comments:

1 John 2:18-29

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (It is clear therefore that "they" the AntiChrists are not part of "us" the true believers)

20 But ye (who is this ye? the little children) have an unction from the Holy One (how can we say that they are not born again when they have the unction from the Holy One?), and ye know all things (Jesus says the Spirit guides into ALL truth).

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? (here is the truth that John wants the little children to preserve)? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that (That what? that truth that Jesus is the Christ and Son of God) therefore abide (notice that it is for them to LET the truth abide in them) in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning (same truth) shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son (notice they will continue in the Son if the truth abides in them, that means they were already in the Son, do you see this?), and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us (who is this us, John is including Himself as a believer among the little children who are also believers. This "us" represents the ones who let the truth abide in them and who continue in the Son verse 24), even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them (the antichrists) that seduce you.

27 But the anointing (the anointing of the Spirit) which ye have received of him abideth in you (so you see that these little children have already received the Spirit), and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth (so this same anointing IS TRUTH, The Spirit is the Spirit of Truth), and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him (So John again addresses them and says to ABIDE in Him, in the Spirit of Christ); that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed (why would they be ashamed? because they did not abide in Him) before him at his coming.

In summary,

John is saying to these believers who have the unction of the Holy One:
- Let the Truth abide in you (which that antichrists are denying) so that they continue in the Son
- that if that truth abides in them they will receive the promise of eternal life
- that this truth is given to them by the anointing they received from God
- to abide in the truth, so that they are not ashamed at His coming.

Notice how all this fits with 1 John 5:13 I mentioned above. It is clear that John is saying to these believers who already have the Truth to let that truth remain in them so that they continue in the Son and be saved. Why that exhortation if they are already saved?

I am interested in what you think of this commentary for chapter 2 (that would be my first question to you concerning our discussion, how do you respond to it). Please also forgive me for the intruding comments. I find it better to follow the train of thought of the authors.

1 John 3

Now jumping to 1 John 3:9 :). I know it is long but this is what true Bible study is to me (it is my life). Now let me be clear about something. If 1 John 3:9 is taken ALONE, then yes it seems to mean exactly that if one is born of God he cannot keep sinning and cannot sin. But that is what taking verses out of context does and that is what no one should do.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I mean John literally says a born again Christian CANNOT sin. So if this verse is taken out of context, it will necessarily mean that born-again Christians will NEVER EVER SIN. But that cannot be the case because in chapter 2, John says:

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (is John contradicting himself)

So obviously a born-again Christian can sin. Now you may say that John in chapter 3 verse 9 is talking about practising a lifestyle of sin (walking in sin). Well I agree, but that is also talking about born again ABIDING Christians check verse 6:

1 John 3:6 - Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: (basically John is designating born again ABIDING Christians, who is doing the abiding, it is the subject "whoever") whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

This basically means that this "whoever" in verse 9 is the same "whoever" in verse 6:

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God (and abiding verse 6) doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him (it remains in him because he is also an abiding Christian): and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So what I mean is this, 1 John 3:9 out of context may seem like it is saying that you only need to be born again to be saved. But in reality and in context, John means born again abiding Christians. The abiding is implicit in that verse as shown from verse 6 before it.

Saying "whoever has put on a coat will not be cold" does not mean that this "whoever" will not be wearing pants.

Saying "whoever is born of God does not commit sin" does not mean that this "whoever" will not be abiding in the Son. John is supposing that these born again Christians are willingly abiding in the Son (which should normally happen by the way because of the convicting of the Holy Spirit if they listen)

The Ambiguity of 1 John

Remember when I said that each passage has to be taken on its own in its context in the last post? The letter of 1 John has perplexed scholars because he seems to contradict himself, in places he says, a Christian cannot sin, others if they sin they have an advocate with the Father, in others if we have no sin we are liars, in the end he distinguishes between a brother who sins not unto death and another unto death. It is surely part of the passages that are not clear. Why? It is because the apostle John has no linear reasoning like Paul. He is circular the same as James. He starts with a certain subject, then he goes to something else then he goes back to the first subject and on and on. James does the same in his epistle. He speaks about the mouth, he speaks about something else and then he goes to the mouth, etc.. In other words, the same concept or subject is mentioned many different places in the same book. Therefore, we have to gather verses from all over the place in the same book to get to the truth.

Paul is not like that, he is a lawyer, John is a jewish fisherman :). One thing for sure we cannot base the whole doctrine of calvinism and OSAS on one verse 1 John 3:9. We have to see it in the light of the other verses pertaining to sinning after Spiritual birth.

Finally, it is a good verse to analyze and is one of the verses we have to dig into the context to come out with the truth. It also addresses the concept of sin after spiritual rebirth which is why it is relevant to study it. The other verses used to support OSAS don't even mention sin, as we shall see later.

On the other hand, verses against OSAS speak very straight-forward about sin after conversion.

Please brother forgive me for writing long. And take your time to respond. No rush for me.

May the Lord Jesus bless you!
Asaph George, thank you for this post and your always kind words. I wish to apologize most deeply for being absent for so long. My wife and I have been quite very ill and I have not been on my computer for a while. I am recovering (I think!) and hope to be returning to our conversation soon. I am sorry but I still am not up to the task just yet. I ask you to be patient with me as I convalesce. I regret that I have not spoken with you before now to let you know what is going on, but I just have not had it in me physically to sit at the computer. In fact, I passed out briefly just yesterday. I am weak but I think I see the end of the proverbial tunnel just ahead.

You have made some interesting points which I hope to address soon. Please do not give up on me, brother. Again, I apologize for leaving you hanging so long.

I hope to visit with you here again soon, and ...
 
Upvote 0

Exinanition

Active Member
Feb 20, 2018
26
11
70
Shreveport
✟17,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Dear Brother Asaph George, again I wish to apologize to you for my long absence from our conversation. I know it must be quite frustrating to you just as we were about to get into what I hope will be a very fruitful conversation. I know it has been very frustrating to me. I sat down with my bible today and I read the book of First John all the way through again. I know you will agree with me that it is a beautiful book of John’s love for his God and Savior and for the people to whom he was writing. John’s focus always is tempered with love, love, love. An evidence of John’s love for people, and especially for fellow believers, is his constant encouragement to all to keep the faith, practice the love of Jesus Christ, and to make the conscious effort to abide in Christ.


When we set our minds and our hearts on Jesus Christ, when we abide in him, we will strive to please him. This is the ever-present mindset of all true believers. This is what tempers their every thought as they live from day to day. These are the people of God. These are those who are saved. I believe with all my heart that a person who has truly seen God with eyes that have been quickened by the Holy Spirit, who have seen their own lives for what they truly are compared to the most excellent perfection of Jesus Christ, and who have had their hearts honestly broken by the disparity of their own lives compared with that perfect life of Jesus Christ, will fall to their knees and decry their sinfulness, confess their sinful, fallen estate, and cry out to Jesus Christ to save them from their wickedness, and they will be saved. Brother Asaph George, these are those whom I say are saved and these will never turn away from God. The joy which they have come to know, the peace which has filled their lives, the beauty of the hope they now have in Jesus Christ, the comfort of the Holy Spirit, and the fellowship they experience with God and with God’s people, they will never again trade for their old ways of sin, vulgarity, deceit, hatred, and worship of self.


Whenever I say that a saved person will never lose his salvation, I am not speaking of the one who went to a revival and had a highly emotional experience and ran up the aisle and said. “I want to be saved,” then a week later has gone right back to the way he has always lived. I am not speaking of those who joined a church congregation somewhere and got busy checking off all the boxes they think will secure their place in heaven. I am not speaking of the one who thinks he is saved because he sings in the choir, or works in the nursery, or is on the praise team. I am not speaking of the one who thinks because he got baptized he has nothing more to do because he is now “saved.” I am speaking only of the one who has seen his “filthy rags,” who knows his “sins were as scarlet,” who has cried out, “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?,” and has truly “seen the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up and the train of His glory filling the temple,” and has cried with the seraphim, “Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory!,” and, as did Isaiah, has cried out, “Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.”


Brother Asaph George, I am here to tell you this one will never again turn and run from God because he is now “in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” He understands that he has been granted a “lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for (him), Who (is) kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein (he) greatly rejoice(s), though now for a season, if need be, (he is) in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of (his) faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, (he) love(s); in whom, though now (he) see(s) him not, yet believing, (he) rejoice(s) with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of (his) faith, even the salvation of (his)soul. -1 Peter 1:3b-9


Brother Asaph George, this is the man about whom John said in 1 John 3:6, “sinneth not,” and again in 1 John 3:9, “is born of God (and)doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”


Brother Asaph George, this is not my final attempt to address 1 John, however, it is late and I must retire for the evening. I will make an attempt to post something more in the next day or so. I have obligations to fulfill tomorrow and I may not be able to find time to post tomorrow. I hope to hear from you again soon, and please, accept my apology for being gone away so long. It truly could not be helped.


I wish you all the comfort of God’s love and…
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,182,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Dear Brother Asaph George, again I wish to apologize to you for my long absence from our conversation. I know it must be quite frustrating to you just as we were about to get into what I hope will be a very fruitful conversation. I know it has been very frustrating to me. I sat down with my bible today and I read the book of First John all the way through again. I know you will agree with me that it is a beautiful book of John’s love for his God and Savior and for the people to whom he was writing. John’s focus always is tempered with love, love, love. An evidence of John’s love for people, and especially for fellow believers, is his constant encouragement to all to keep the faith, practice the love of Jesus Christ, and to make the conscious effort to abide in Christ.


When we set our minds and our hearts on Jesus Christ, when we abide in him, we will strive to please him. This is the ever-present mindset of all true believers. This is what tempers their every thought as they live from day to day. These are the people of God. These are those who are saved. I believe with all my heart that a person who has truly seen God with eyes that have been quickened by the Holy Spirit, who have seen their own lives for what they truly are compared to the most excellent perfection of Jesus Christ, and who have had their hearts honestly broken by the disparity of their own lives compared with that perfect life of Jesus Christ, will fall to their knees and decry their sinfulness, confess their sinful, fallen estate, and cry out to Jesus Christ to save them from their wickedness, and they will be saved. Brother Asaph George, these are those whom I say are saved and these will never turn away from God. The joy which they have come to know, the peace which has filled their lives, the beauty of the hope they now have in Jesus Christ, the comfort of the Holy Spirit, and the fellowship they experience with God and with God’s people, they will never again trade for their old ways of sin, vulgarity, deceit, hatred, and worship of self.


Whenever I say that a saved person will never lose his salvation, I am not speaking of the one who went to a revival and had a highly emotional experience and ran up the aisle and said. “I want to be saved,” then a week later has gone right back to the way he has always lived. I am not speaking of those who joined a church congregation somewhere and got busy checking off all the boxes they think will secure their place in heaven. I am not speaking of the one who thinks he is saved because he sings in the choir, or works in the nursery, or is on the praise team. I am not speaking of the one who thinks because he got baptized he has nothing more to do because he is now “saved.” I am speaking only of the one who has seen his “filthy rags,” who knows his “sins were as scarlet,” who has cried out, “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?,” and has truly “seen the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up and the train of His glory filling the temple,” and has cried with the seraphim, “Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory!,” and, as did Isaiah, has cried out, “Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.”


Brother Asaph George, I am here to tell you this one will never again turn and run from God because he is now “in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” He understands that he has been granted a “lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for (him), Who (is) kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein (he) greatly rejoice(s), though now for a season, if need be, (he is) in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of (his) faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, (he) love(s); in whom, though now (he) see(s) him not, yet believing, (he) rejoice(s) with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of (his) faith, even the salvation of (his)soul. -1 Peter 1:3b-9

Grace, peace, and love to you from the Lord Jesus Christ.

I hope you are feeling better.

I know your reply was to brother George, but I feel like I need to reply here so as to let the light of the truth of God's Word shine on this matter, my friend.

Okay. To get down to it.

God did not create man to be unequal in ability. God did not make some men to have an inclination to want to be more sinful (and away from God) vs. others who want to surrender to Jesus Christ by having faith in Him and following His righteous and good ways. All men will have to give an account for their actions before God. For it is written,

5 "...God;
6 ... will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;" (Romans 2:5-12).

Paul says, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).

Why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear?

Now, if in any way a man is not responsible for his actions, and salvation was all a by product of what God does to us (by God keeping us by His power alone) than man is off the hook in what he does. He can believe in Jesus and think he can sin and still be saved. But such thinking is against what Jude 1:4 says.

"For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." (Jude 1:4 NIV).

Anyways, when we read 1 Peter 1:5 that says, "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation..." we have to also look at the words "through faith." For without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

Romans 1:16-18 says,
16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

What is this faith that is lived out look like?

James 2:17
“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”

James 2:24
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

James 2:18
“shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.”

Hebrews 9:14
“How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.”

Titus 3:8
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.”

1 Peter 4:1-2
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God

Colossians 1:21-23
21 “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.”

Colossians 2:6-7
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith,as ye have been taught,”

1 John 1:7
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

In fact, if we are kept by the power of God, then all people should be saved.
It would show a lack of the power of God if salvation was ultimately up to God in saving us.

However, the Scriptures say,

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9).

Repentance is asking God for forgiveness of one's sins (Which is naturally followed by the fruits of repentance - i.e. forsaking sin). Jesus says that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the peaching of Jonah. That means that this generation of believers (even today), they are not repenting of their sins. Jesus points us to Jonah 3:6-10. In this passage we learn that the King of the Ninevites told his people to:

(a) Cry unto God (i.e. repentance or asking God for forgiveness of sin).
(b) Forsake their evil ways (i.e. the natural fruits of repentance).

Also, the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) is 100% proof that any faithful believer can lose their salvation by sliding back into a life style of sin and then be saved again by repenting of their sins.

For when the prodigal son returns home, his father said twice, that his son was "dead" and he is "alive again." The father also said his son was "lost" and is "found." This parable is speaking in spiritual terms. The son was spiritually dead and or spiritually lost and when he came back home to the father (willing to repent before his father and all of heaven), he was "alive again spiritually" and "found spiritually." (See Luke 15:24, and Luke 15:32). In other words, the prodigal son was spiritually lost or unsaved when he was living in sin. He needed to repent in order to be saved again. This blows away any concept of Once Saved Always Saved. In fact, the problem with teaching Once Saved Always Saved is that if you tell people they are saved no matter what they do, then you are essentially teaching them that they can sin and still be saved because they are no doubt going to sin again. They will then think they do not have to ask God for forgiveness of their sin and forsake it. Proverbs 28:13 says that he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

Anyways, the person who is kept by the power of God is the one who has faith. This is a true faith that not only trusts in God's salvation and what He has done for us with Christ's death and resurrection, but it is a faith that also lives itself out in good works and holy living, too. For Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness no man shall see the Lord. So this is not "Easy Believism" or a sin and still be saved type belief or faith. This is the kind of faith in God that leads a person to follow Jesus and His good ways. For he that is not with Jesus, they scatter or run away from Him.

"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." (Matthew 12:30).

In other words, if a person says they believe in Jesus, and yet they are not really following Jesus, they are scattering or running away from the true Jesus of the Bible. If this is the case, then the Jesus they talk about is another Jesus. For nowhere does the Bible teach that we can not follow Jesus and still be saved.

You said:
Brother Asaph George, this is the man about whom John said in 1 John 3:6, “sinneth not,” and again in 1 John 3:9, “is born of God (and) doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

Are you saying that:

(a) A born again person cannot sin spiritually even if they physically do sin?
Meaning, that if a believer sins, his sin is paid for by Jesus and he does not need to worry about his salvation. So asking God for forgiveness is not really necessary after believing in Jesus for salvation. Is that what you believe?

(b) A born again person cannot keep continuing to sin habitually like an unbeliever. The believer will sin on occasion but their life is not characterized by a life of sin. Is this what you believe?

(c) A born again person cannot sin any way whatsoever while abiding in Jesus Christ. Is this what you believe?

My guess is that you believe in (a) and (b). Please take note that there are Eternal Security proponents who believe in just (a) and they think they can sin as much as they like and still be saved. The problem is that their message of Eternal Security really does not sound all that different when taught to a crowd or audience. Only under closer examination and asking probing questions does one normally find out the difference here.

Anyways, 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil.
Is there any mention that 1 John 3:8 is talking about how commits sin is in reference to a habitual lifestyle of sin?

1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous.
So righteousness is more than just having a belief on Jesus alone.
Although, a belief in Jesus, his death, and resurrection, and seeking His forgiveness is where righteousness begins for a believer.

1 John 3:10 says he that does not righteousness and or does not love his brother is not of God. This to me is a very works oriented verse. It is saying to me that if I do not do righteousness or love my brother, I am not of God.

1 John 3:15 says that if you hate your brother, no eternal life abides in you. Paul says that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (like "Do not murder," "Do not lie," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10). Loving your neighbor would no doubt include loving your brother. So if 1 John 3:15 is to be true, we cannot hate our brother even one time in our life and expect to have eternal life in us. For 1 John 3:15 says if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us. 1 John 3:15 is speaking in the present tense and not in some overall broad brush stroke of a believer's life. In fact, Jesus echoes similar words. Jesus says that if you look upon a woman in lust, you are in danger of your body of being cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Why all these warnings if the believer is in no way able to fall away by sin? For it does not do an unbeliever any good to be told to avoid certain sins. They first need to accept Jesus as their Savior in order to be initially saved.

You said:
Brother Asaph George, this is not my final attempt to address 1 John, however, it is late and I must retire for the evening. I will make an attempt to post something more in the next day or so. I have obligations to fulfill tomorrow and I may not be able to find time to post tomorrow. I hope to hear from you again soon, and please, accept my apology for being gone away so long. It truly could not be helped.

I wish you all the comfort of God’s love and…

You have my deepest sympathy for your medical condition or situation. May the Lord give you strength and heal you soon.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Exinanition

Active Member
Feb 20, 2018
26
11
70
Shreveport
✟17,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Grace, peace, and love to you from the Lord Jesus Christ.


I hope you are feeling better.



Thank you very much, Jason0047. That was kind of you. I am feeling better, though I am not exactly well yet.





I know your reply was to brother George, but I feel like I need to reply here so as to let the light of the truth of God's Word shine on this matter, my friend.



My only desire is for the light of the truth of God’s Word to shine on this, as well as, every matter.



Okay. To get down to it.


God did not create man to be unequal in ability.


Yes, Jason, I believe He did. I cannot do what a contortionist does. I cannot pass an astrophysics exam. I will never high-jump over eight feet high. I cannot hold my breath underwater for four minutes. God did indeed make man (and woman) to be unequal in ability. If He did not this would be a pretty dull world. For one thing, there would be little use, if any, for the Guinness Book of World Records, lol. God did not, however, make people to be unequal in value in His sight.



God did not make some men to have an inclination to want to be more sinful (and away from God) vs. others who want to surrender to Jesus Christ by having faith in Him and following His righteous and good ways.



You may be correct here. I honestly cannot say if this is true or not. I would hope this is true, but I am not God and simply do not know exhaustively the mind of God. Let us assume for the sake of this discussion that you are correct. (Again, I hope you are.) Are you saying we are all products of our environment, culture, economic situation, physical location, and upbringing? If, as you say, we are all equal in ability and inclination as respects our attitude toward Jesus Christ, then something else must surely explain the varying attitudes towards our Lord.



All men will have to give an account for their actions before God.



I agree with you 100% here, Jason0047.


Paul says, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).


Why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear?



There are two points I wish to make here concerning this verse.


The first is this: Everything in this chapter preceding this verse is instruction to this congregation about imitating the humility of Jesus Christ.


“be likeminded (with Jesus), having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore (because Jesus emptied himself of his exalted estate and wholly humbled himself) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Paul is telling the members of this church to give due diligence to their own personal salvation and to be humble in this diligence; not assuming one is better or more religious than any other. He is warning them against having pride in their in their salvation because it is not of their own doing that they have been, and are being, saved.



The second point is more in direct response to your question about “trembling” and “fear” and is found in the verse immediately following Philippians 2:12.


“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For (because) it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”


Fear and trembling” must be the order of the day here because it is not we, but Almighty God Himself who is directing us in our salvation and newness of life in Jesus Christ. It is as if we ourselves were standing before God at the “burning bush which was not consumed” and being told to “put off the sandals” from our feet because “the place where we are standing is holy ground!” It is the Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent God, the “I am that I am,” the Sovereign Almighty, and Only Wise God Himself who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure! In other words, this is the holiest of endeavors in which we will ever find ourselves and it must be treated as such. There is no place for pride, arrogance, self-aggrandizement, or ego whatsoever in this matter because it is all of God, by God, and for God. When we decide to follow Jesus Christ it is all or nothing. There can be no waffling in our approach to the throne of mercy and grace.




Now, if in any way a man is not responsible for his actions, and salvation was all a by product of what God does to us (by God keeping us by His power alone) than man is off the hook in what he does.


I certainly agree with this statement, however, I never said anything even remotely close to this in my post, so I honestly do not see why you are bringing it up. Every man is responsible for his actions…period! This does not depend upon whether he is following Jesus or not; however, the one who is following Jesus is infinitely more responsible for his actions.



…He can believe in Jesus and think he can sin and still be saved. But such thinking is against what Jude 1:4 says.



No one who is truly saved and is following Jesus can possibly ever think such a thing as this. This is an integral part of what being saved means, Jason0047. The one who is sincerely born again is a “new creation; the old is gone the new has come.” This is the very definition of “born again.”


"For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." (Jude 1:4 NIV).



Yes. “They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." They are not saved. They were never saved. They are UNGODLY!



Anyways, when we read 1 Peter 1:5 that says, "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation..." we have to also look at the words "through faith." For without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).



Again, yes, I agree with you here and I agree with the scripture here. Here is a link to a post I wrote to Brother Asaph George earlier in this conversation in which I drove home this very point about faith playing an absolutely vital role in salvation:


ALL Scriptures For and Against Once Saved Always Saved


Hebrews 9:14

“How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.”


“…to purge your conscience from dead works…” the works one pursued before he was saved.

This is done to free you to serve God with a mind that is not tortured by your past.



Titus 3:8

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.”


The world is always watching the one who professes to be a follower of Jesus Christ. He must be ever vigilant to maintain good works and to “avoid even the appearance of evil” for it is the Holy Name of God he is claiming to represent. God takes the purity and sanctity of His Name most seriously. I would direct you to Ezekiel 36:16-23. Also, good works have been “prepared in advance” for those who are “saved by grace through faith” as we are now “ambassadors for Christ.” These works are prepared for those who are saved because none other is fit for the task. We are to engage in these good works, in part, to show the power of God unto salvation; NOT to earn or keep our salvation, but as evidence of our salvation, and obedience to God our Father.



1 Peter 4:1-2

1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God


Again, I agree with this in its entirety. For Jesus has said, “Scripture cannot be broken.” “…no longer (living) the rest of (one’s) time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God…” is evidence of salvation. It, in no manner whatsoever, earns or maintains salvation. It is the willful and joyful act of obedience of the one who has truly been saved. He cannot but do it.


Colossians 1:21-23

21 “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.”


Jason0047, I am certain you have read the beginning of this chapter also. Perhaps you overlooked what Paul said there.



“For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: -Colossians 1:9-14


Please note, Jason0047, this passage says we have already been made meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; because that is what “hath made” means. We have already been delivered from the power of darkness by Almighty God himself. This is what “hath delivered us from the power of darkness” means. We have already been translated into the kingdom of God’s dear Son, because that is what “hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son” means. We already have redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross for us, because that is what “we have redemption through his blood” means. We already have forgiveness of sins, because that is what “even the forgiveness of sins” means when combined with the phrase immediately preceding it.



Colossians 2:6-7

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith,as ye have been taught,”


Amen!!!


1 John 1:7

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”


Again, Amen!



In fact, if we are kept by the power of God, then all people should be saved.


I do not understand how you arrived at this. The scriptures do not say all people are kept by the power of God. This is a promise made only to the elect, those who are truly saved, to those who will never turn back.



It would show a lack of the power of God if salvation was ultimately up to God in saving us.



In Ephesians Paul wrote:

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved.” –Ephesians 2:1-5


Please tell me, Jason0047, how many times have you seen a dead man dig himself up out of a grave and make himself alive again? Paul says we were DEAD. It is God who has quickened us and made us to live together with Christ.


And again:


For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9


Salvation is not now, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be by the works of any man other than the man Jesus Christ. To say otherwise is just plain wrong. We did not save ourselves. We cannot save ourselves. If we are truly saved we cannot lose our salvation. It is the gift of God secured by the power of God for the glory of God!




However, the Scriptures say,


"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9).


Repentance is asking God for forgiveness of one's sins (Which is naturally followed by the fruits of repentance - i.e. forsaking sin). Jesus says that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the peaching of Jonah. That means that this generation of believers (even today), they are not repenting of their sins.


Brother Jason0047, repentance is not “asking God for forgiveness of one's sins.” Repentance is turning around and going in the opposite direction from the way you have been going. Repentance from sin means to turn away from sin and to turn towards God and His holiness. Many people pray every day, Jason0047, for forgiveness of sins yet they never repent. They continue in their sins and then just pray for forgiveness again when they turn in for the night. They are not unlike Don Quixote and his imaginary dragons. Their prayers are sheer vanity because they have not the desire within them to change. They simply covet forgiveness so they do not have to feel guilty.



Also, the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) is 100% proof that any faithful believer can lose their salvation by sliding back into a life style of sin and then be saved again by repenting of their sins.


Jason0047, I do not wish to hurt your feelings but you have misunderstood the parable of the prodigal son if you believe he was saved and lost his salvation and then regained it. This is not the meaning of this parable at all.

The Parable of the Lost Sheep, the Parable of the Lost Coin, and the Parable of the Prodigal Son are all three Jesus’ response to the Pharisees and Scribes who, in verse two of this chapter, “murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.” All three of these parables Jesus told with the purpose of vindicating himself in conversing with publicans and sinners, of reproving the envy of the Pharisees, and of encouraging every sincere penitent, by moving representations of the divine mercy. In the parable of the Prodigal Son, the younger, or Prodigal, son represents the publicans and the sinners who have need of salvation and have drawn nigh unto Jesus to hear what he had to say. This is how the chapter begins. Please see verse one. The older son represents the Pharisees who resent the younger son being approved of by the father. Reference verses twenty-five through thirty.



Anyways, the person who is kept by the power of God is the one who has faith. This is a true faith that not only trusts in God's salvation and what He has done for us with Christ's death and resurrection, but it is a faith that also lives itself out in good works and holy living, too.


You are absolutely correct here, Jason0047. This is exactly what I have been attempting to say all along now with every post I have written in this thread.




For Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness no man shall see the Lord. So this is not "Easy Believism" or a sin and still be saved type belief or faith.


Again, you are absolutely correct. I have never, ever endorsed “Easy Believism” or a “sin and still be saved type belief or faith.” I have decried this kind of thinking from day one and will continue to do so. What I have been saying is that those who do believe this are not saved and no matter what they think they have never been saved for they neither know God nor the power of His salvation in Jesus Christ.



This is the kind of faith in God that leads a person to follow Jesus and His good ways. For he that is not with Jesus, they scatter or run away from Him.


RIGHT!!! …the kind of faith in God that leads a person to follow Jesus and His good ways!!! This person will follow Jesus and he will never revert to his old ways again for he is kept by the power of God through faith. He will never lose his salvation because he understands from whence he gained it, what price was paid for it, the unmatchable love of God in Jesus Christ which secured it, and the hope of eternal life it promises! This person is saved and will endure anything to honor God. Anything!


In other words, if a person says they believe in Jesus, and yet they are not really following Jesus, they are scattering or running away from the true Jesus of the Bible. If this is the case, then the Jesus they talk about is another Jesus. For nowhere does the Bible teach that we can not follow Jesus and still be saved.


Yes, yes, yes! That person is not saved.




Are you saying that:


(a) A born again person cannot sin spiritually even if they physically do sin?

Meaning, that if a believer sins, his sin is paid for by Jesus and he does not need to worry about his salvation. So asking God for forgiveness is not really necessary after believing in Jesus for salvation. Is that what you believe?


(b) A born again person cannot keep continuing to sin habitually like an unbeliever. The believer will sin on occasion but their life is not characterized by a life of sin. Is this what you believe?


(c) A born again person cannot sin any way whatsoever while abiding in Jesus Christ. Is this what you believe?


I believe in (b). A and C are ridiculous.



Anyways, 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil.

Is there any mention that 1 John 3:8 is talking about how commits sin is in reference to a habitual lifestyle of sin?


Yes, sir, the original Greek structure says it. It just is not translated that way very often. The New American Standard Bible which is touted as perhaps the truest to the original Greek language, and the New International Bible both get it right. The NASB translates it as “practices sin” and the NIV translates it as “continue in sin.” There may be other translations which get it right but I honestly cannot remember right now.




1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous.

So righteousness is more than just having a belief on Jesus alone.

Although, a belief in Jesus, his death, and resurrection, and seeking His forgiveness is where righteousness begins for a believer.



Yes, and he who paints is a painter, and he who writes is a writer and so on and so forth. Yes, righteousness is much, much more than just having A belief in Jesus, his death and resurrection. And, yes, seeking His forgiveness is where righteousness begins for a believer.



1 John 3:10 says he that does not righteousness and or does not love his brother is not of God. This to me is a very works oriented verse. It is saying to me that if I do not do righteousness or love my brother, I am not of God.


The verse is, of course, true. The one who does not these things is not of God and these things prove that he is not of God. They are evidence that he is not of God just as the one who does these things is displaying evidence that he is of God. These evidences, however, are not the source of his salvation. They are just the evidence of it.



1 John 3:15 says that if you hate your brother, no eternal life abides in you. Paul says that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (like "Do not murder," "Do not lie," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10). Loving your neighbor would no doubt include loving your brother. So if 1 John 3:15 is to be true, we cannot hate our brother even one time in our life and expect to have eternal life in us. For 1 John 3:15 says if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us. 1 John 3:15 is speaking in the present tense and not in some overall broad brush stroke of a believer's life. In fact, Jesus echoes similar words. Jesus says that if you look upon a woman in lust, you are in danger of your body of being cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Why all these warnings if the believer is in no way able to fall away by sin? For it does not do an unbeliever any good to be told to avoid certain sins. They first need to accept Jesus as their Savior in order to be initially saved.


After carefully reading what you have just said here, I get the feeling that you might be thinking that every time a believer sins he loses his salvation. I hope this is not what you are saying. If that were the case salvation would be a very worrisome and exhausting endeavor. Do you remember when Jesus said to Peter, “Get thee behind me, Satan?” Did Peter lose his salvation at that moment? Jesus predicted Peter would deny him three times on the night of Jesus’ arrest. Peter did. Do you remember how the book of John ends? Read chapter twenty-one again. Jesus ever-so-lovingly restores Peter’s faith and commissions him to oversee the church. Is this what losing your salvation looks like? Peter never lost his salvation. He suffered a break in fellowship with God temporarily but God loved Peter and Jesus restored his spirit and good standing with him. Do you have children? If one of them should do something absolutely wrong would you stop loving him or her or would you lovingly make every effort to reassure him or her of your unfailing love and restore the broken relationship?


Brother Jason0047, God does not throw away his heirs and fellow-heirs with Jesus Christ over a mistake made in a moment of faulty judgment. The saved one in Jesus Christ cannot go on sinning unrepentingly because the Holy Spirit and God’s seed within him simply will not allow him to throw away his salvation. Jesus said no one could come unto him unless the Father draws him to him. Jesus also prayed to the Father and said he had not lost one of the ones the Father had given him. He still has not. He never will.




You have my deepest sympathy for your medical condition or situation. May the Lord give you strength and heal you soon.


Thank you so very much for your kind words, Jason0047 and…
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Tayla

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 30, 2017
1,694
801
USA
✟147,315.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Is it me or the number of scriptures telling us that we have to endure until the end to be saved much more than the other side? I also feel the people who believe in Once Saved Always Saved always use the same verses and push into them things they don't really say. While the scriptures against it are much more obvious and straight-forward.
I agree with your view.
 
Upvote 0

Smidlee

Veteran
May 21, 2004
7,076
749
NC, USA
✟21,162.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I don't see how I can lose my salvation when I didn't have faith in myself the begin with. A preacher accused me of believe "once saved always saved" when I told him my testimony.
I never set foot in the church when God saved me as I heard the gospel through the radio. All I know what I was a sinners and could no way appear righteous before a holy righteous God and knew I would go to hell. I only knew to call on the name of Jesus Christ who is the Son of God.
I asked God to forgive and I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I began telling my sisters God saved me as I felt a heavy load lifted off me. That's when they began telling me I had to keep the ten commandments in order to remain a Christian. I didn't even know the ten commandments but I was no fool and knew there is no way I could keep them. I left disappointed and told God he could have His salvation back as I thought all I had to do was to put my faith in the work of Jesus Christ. I didn't even have my faith in my faith. I told God maybe on my death bed I would accept as that's the only way possible if salvation depends on me.
As time went on I noticed something happen to me that day that wouldn't go away. I was confused trying to somehow work to please God but continue to fail miserable. Slowly I realize God didn't forsake me and didn't take back His salvation yet still had trouble reading and understand scripture. I finally got a car and started to go to church for the first time.
But somehow I felt the pastor was more ignorant of God than I was even though he clearly knew more scripture. The more I listen to him to more something wasn't right yet I didn't know what. I got discourage going to church as it felt empty. I got married when I met my brother-in-law who was a pastor of Church of God. There is one thing I knew , God is not an Indian-giver and He was with me even through my ignorance. If there was any way to lose my salvation it would be lost. I hunger to know more of God and listen to my brother-in-law who didn't believe in the security of the believer. He kept quoting me scripture trying to prove you can lose your salvation and like my sisters I knew they meant well. I surely wasn't to go down that long road again. I continue to asked him if he believed God was an Indian-giver and he just claim that word isn't in scripture. Yes but you know what it meant. He finally gave up and claimed I thought like those Baptist. I didn't know jack about Baptist so I thought I try out a Baptist church one of my sister was attending.
This was exactly what I needed as I'm still a member of this Baptist church which taught me so much from the scriptures. I was amazed just how much I knew of God salvation and even knew the ten commandments even though I couldn't quote them. I'm still a member and continue to grow in Jesus Christ. ( I find it interesting God used a Church of God pastor to lead me to a Baptist church. )

I think some Christians don't realize the salvation is past,present and future. I have been saved, I'm now being saved and I will be saved. God's salvation is not bound by time just like Him.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Exinanition
Upvote 0

Exinanition

Active Member
Feb 20, 2018
26
11
70
Shreveport
✟17,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I don't see how I can lose my salvation when I didn't have faith in myself the begin with. A preacher accused me of believe "once saved always saved" when I told him my testimony.
I never set foot in the church when God saved me as I heard the gospel through the radio. All I know what I was a sinners and could no way appear righteous before a holy righteous God and knew I would go to hell. I only knew to call on the name of Jesus Christ who is the Son of God.
I asked God to forgive and I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I began telling my sisters God saved me as I felt a heavy load lifted off me. That's when they began telling me I had to keep the ten commandments in order to remain a Christian. I didn't even know the ten commandments but I was no fool and knew there is no way I could keep them. I left disappointed and told God he could have His salvation back as I thought all I had to do was to put my faith in the work of Jesus Christ. I didn't even have my faith in my faith. I told God maybe on my death bed I would accept as that's the only way possible if salvation depends on me.
As time went on I noticed something happen to me that day that wouldn't go away. I was confused trying to somehow work to please God but continue to fail miserable. Slowly I realize God didn't forsake me and didn't take back His salvation yet still had trouble reading and understand scripture. I finally got a car and started to go to church for the first time.
But somehow I felt the pastor was more ignorant of God than I was even though he clearly knew more scripture. The more I listen to him to more something wasn't right yet I didn't know what. I got discourage going to church as it felt empty. I got married when I met my brother-in-law who was a pastor of Church of God. There is one thing I knew , God is not an Indian-giver and He was with me even through my ignorance. If there was any way to lose my salvation it would be lost. I hunger to know more of God and listen to my brother-in-law who didn't believe in the security of the believer. He kept quoting me scripture trying to prove you can lose your salvation and like my sisters I knew they meant well. I surely wasn't to go down that long road again. I continue to asked him if he believed God was an Indian-giver and he just claim that word isn't in scripture. Yes but you know what it meant. He finally gave up and claimed I thought like those Baptist. I didn't know jack about Baptist so I thought I try out a Baptist church one of my sister was attending.
This was exactly what I needed as I'm still a member of this Baptist church which taught me so much from the scriptures. I was amazed just how much I knew of God salvation and even knew the ten commandments even though I couldn't quote them. I'm still a member and continue to grow in Jesus Christ. ( I find it interesting God used a Church of God pastor to lead me to a Baptist church. )

I think some Christians don't realize the salvation is past,present and future. I have been saved, I'm now being saved and I will be saved. God's salvation is not bound by time just like Him.
Congratulations, Smidlee. You understand what faith in Jesus Christ is and you know you have God's seed remaining in you. If it were possible for the elect to lose their salvation then salvation would be no better than any other "self-help" program. I thank God every day that it is not.

Hold fast to your faith in Jesus Christ for you will never lose your salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Exinanition

Active Member
Feb 20, 2018
26
11
70
Shreveport
✟17,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
1 John 3:15 says that if you hate your brother, no eternal life abides in you. Paul says that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (like "Do not murder," "Do not lie," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10).



Yes.



Loving your neighbor would no doubt include loving your brother. So if 1 John 3:15 is to be true, we cannot hate our brother even one time in our life and expect to have eternal life in us. For 1 John 3:15 says if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us. 1 John 3:15 is speaking in the present tense and not in some overall broad brush stroke of a believer's life.



ἀθρωποκτόνος is taken from the Greek word for “man” and the Greek word for “to kill.” It is translated “manslayer” sometimes and in the KJV it is translated “murderer.” It is used only here in 1 John 3:15 and 1 John 3:16 and in John 8:44 where it is used by Jesus in reference to the devil.

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”


Now I ask you, does the devil hate only one time? Of course he does not. He hates unceasingly, incessantly, endlessly, unremittingly. And what else does it say of him? He is full of lust. He abode not in the truth. The truth was not to be found in him. When he speaks he speaks lies. He is a liar. He is the father of lies.


From Adam Clarke’s Commentary: “No murderer hath eternal life - Eternal life springs from an indwelling God; and God cannot dwell in the heart where hatred and malice dwell.”


I have to tell you this does not sound much like someone who has been saved by the power of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to me.


And from F. B. Meyer’s Through the Bible Day by Day:

1 John 3:13-24

LOVING IN DEED AND IN TRUTH

"Love to the brethren is a sign that we have been born into the family. We may not like them all, yet we can love them. If we love, we live; and if we live in the deepest sense, we shall love; that is, we shall put others first, and our care for them will be tinged with the crimson of sacrifice. Love is not measured by the expressions of the lip or the emotion of the heart, but by the extent to which we will do or suffer.

The believer dares not affirm too much about himself, he is so unworthy and fickle; but God understands us and imputes to us what we would be. Mark in 1Jn_3:22 the double condition of prevailing prayer. It is also clear from 1Jn_3:23 that men can believe, if they will. God is prepared to impart to those who are wishful all that He commands. Augustine prayed thus: “Give what thou commandest, and command what thou wilt.”


Love to the brethren is a sign that we have been born into the family.” The one who is genuinely born again and saved by the power and grace of God through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ will not hate his brother. He may become displeased with him at some time but he will pray for him. He will not hate him. Still, even if, that were possible, 1 John 2 reassures us that God will forgive us for Christ’s sake because he is our Advocate.


“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” 1 John 2:1-5


I wonder …do the words “in him verily is the love of God perfected” mean what they say, or is scripture wrong here? I am going with they mean what they say. By the way, that word “verily” means “in truth; certainly." And I would point out that this does not say our love is perfected but that the “love of God is perfected in (the believer).”




In fact, Jesus echoes similar words. Jesus says that if you look upon a woman in lust, you are in danger of your body of being cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Why all these warnings if the believer is in no way able to fall away by sin?



Where does it say Jesus is speaking to people who were saved here? Jesus is preaching to followers who have come to hear what he has to say. He is correcting the misunderstanding of the Law as it has been taught to them by the Pharisees over the years.

Please note: “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you…” –Matthew 5:27-28a


Jesus is explaining to them what the Law and the penalty for sin actually means. This is why he used the “Ye have heard that it was said… But I say unto you…” approach before each of these subjects he addressed in this portion of his sermon on the mount. These people do not have a firm understanding of the view God takes of their sin and Jesus is explaining it to them. Many of these people may have been social outcasts and may never even have heard any teaching about God’s purview of sin and the Law. The Pharisees looked down upon poor people because they believed in this time and culture that poverty was a punishment from God for the sin of unrighteousness. They believed if you were truly righteous God would reward you in your estate in life and the opposite was true if you were not righteous as they perceived righteousness. They also believed illness, birth defects, and the like were punishments from God for the same reasons. The Pharisees would never associate with such people; hence, the encounters such as the one which prompted Jesus to tell the parable of the lost sheep, and of the lost coin, and of the prodigal son. The first and second verses of this chapter say “when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them…” So, yes, they were disciples, however, this does not necessarily mean they were already saved. Remember, Judas Iscariot was one of his disciples but he was never saved. I have looked. There is not a single positive statement about Judas Iscariot in the bible.



For it does not do an unbeliever any good to be told to avoid certain sins.



You are correct. We must tell them to avoid all sin. Jesus told them to avoid all sin.



They first need to accept Jesus as their Savior in order to be initially saved


No, sir. They need to accept Jesus as their Savior in order to be fully, eternally saved.


Jason0047, I wish you all the best and…
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Exinanition

Active Member
Feb 20, 2018
26
11
70
Shreveport
✟17,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
The one who is truly saved now is eternally saved in Christ Jesus.



It is Jesus who saves by the power of God unto salvation.


“Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.” –Romans 14:1-4


While this passage is addressing the problem of Christians who judge themselves to be mature arrogantly passing judgment on Christians whom they deem as lacking the maturity they surely will have one day, it would be a mistake of the highest order to miss this point which the apostle made at the end of these four verses regarding the security of the believer. This servant of God will stand because God, who is able, will cause him to stand, even in the final judgment.


From John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible:

for God is able to make him stand; and will make him stand: words of power oftentimes include willingness as well as ability; see Jdg_5:24. God will make such to persevere to the end, because he has loved them with an everlasting love, chosen them in Christ, made a covenant with them in him, and has put them into his hands, and made them his care and charge; Christ has redeemed them by his blood, now intercedes, and is making preparations for them in heaven; they are united to him, and are built on him, the sure foundation; and the Spirit of God has begun that good work, which shall be performed. God will make such to stand in judgment with intrepidity, and without shame, being clothed with the righteousness of his Son; and shall therefore have the crown of righteousness given them, and an abundant entrance administered into his kingdom and glory: hence they ought not to be judged by man's judgment, nor need they regard it.”



“And ye know that he (Jesus) was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Whosoever abideth in him (Jesus) sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his (God’s) seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” -1 John 3:5-10


Jesus “was manifested to take away our sins” and “to destroy the works of the devil.” It is God’s word here, not mine, which states the Christian, the one who is abiding in Christ Jesus because he is saved, “sinneth not.” The original Greek text here indicates the continual, habitual living in sin. This, scriptures say will not happen because “God’s seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”



These two passages taken together are enough to tell us that an honest to goodness, born again, true believer in Jesus Christ will persevere to the end because it is God who keeps his heart, mind, spirit, and soul in His omnipotent hand. God has never lost one of His own. He never will.



I do not have a lot of time to spend here tonight but I did wish to get this much out there for now. Please, if you are saved, do not worry about being able to persevere until the end. It is the Lord God Jehovah who guarantees you that you will.



I wish you all comfort and joy in your salvation. Do not worry. Satan cannot overpower God. He can never steal you away from our Most Excellent and Powerful Father God!


Good evening to all and…
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums