Aliens?

[Ophiolite]

If they are alien craft, where did they come from? None of the other planets in our solar system can have intelligent life, and extrasolar planetary systems are too far away for their vehicles to reach the Earth in any reasonable time.

I am routinely perplexed by assessments of the ease of interstellar travel that base it upon current human technology, human lifespan and human perspectives.
We are already evaluating how to send miniature probes to nearby stars with light sails driven by lasers. The main obstacle is economic, in terms of spending a tiny portion of GDP rather than a very tiny portion of GDP. I would be astounded if it is not achieved before the end of the century. (I'll miss the launch, but that's the price you pay for seeing the first moon landing.)
Humans have already contemplated interstellar voyages spread over centuries or millenia. It would be unreasonable to suppose aliens might not have the same thoughts, 20 millenia more technology and the intention to implement.

 

[klutedavid]

I was thinking more of Ezekiel 1:4-25; the description of the four living creatures coming out of the thundercloud suggests funnel clouds or tornadoes. Any explanation of Ezekiel 1:26-28 must be speculative, but people have mistaken Venus, the Pleiades and flocks of birds for alien spacecraft, and it is easier for me to believe that what Ezekiel saw was some meteorological phenomenon or a hallucination than aliens or a vision of God.

An amazing meteorological phenomenon.

 

[Vap841]

I have read a lot about UFOs and have never come across a convincing one. Only too often, reported UFOs turn out to be bright planets (particularly Venus), bright stars, meteors and fireballs, mock suns (parhelia), aircraft, artificial satellites, Chinese lanterns or birds (either singly or in flocks). If people can't recognise these familiar objects when they see them, what reason is there to think that they would be able to identify an alien spacecraft?

Any of these things would result in a simple explanation from those who know to those who don’t know. But that’s not what we have, we have news outlets telling us that even experts in various fields have no clue what this stuff is. There’s no way that the planet Venus has stumped the entire world, if these sightings are simply things that you’ve listed it would be explained as such. I am the last person to eat up what the news says, but this stuff isn’t new it’s just new that the news has started making it an issue

 

[dlamberth]

I have read a lot about UFOs and have never come across a convincing one. Only too often, reported UFOs turn out to be bright planets (particularly Venus), bright stars, meteors and fireballs, mock suns (parhelia), aircraft, artificial satellites, Chinese lanterns or birds (either singly or in flocks). If people can't recognise these familiar objects when they see them, what reason is there to think that they would be able to identify an alien spacecraft?

Some UFO sightings are as clear as day. How do you explain those sightings?

 

[AV1611VET]

What Ezekiel saw has also been interpreted as a swarm of tornadoes or a display of solar haloes.

 

[AV1611VET]

Some UFO sightings are as clear as day. How do you explain those sightings?

They're seen at night.

 

[Kylie]

You will need to take your winter woolies.

The temperature at night is colder than Antarctica, around -114 F.

Take some magazines to read as all you will see out of the window is red rock and dust.

The round trip will take about three years.

Please send me the necessary paperwork.

 

[dlamberth]

They're seen at night.

UFOs are also seen during the day.

As an example, my brother-in-law, tells how when he was in the Navy deployed and taking turns on watch and where several times he saw UFOs, both during the day and at night. One time he says his ship was buzzed by a UFO. His explanation is that they were demons, which speaks volumes of his religious beliefs.

 

[klutedavid]

Please send me the necessary paperwork.

It's on it's way.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's on it's way.

I have a complaint to make, david.

I (and another poster here) were denied access on any flights, based on the following conversation:

Two Creationists take a Commercial Flight

AV1611VET: How do we know that the flight crew knows how to fly this plane?

Flight Attendant: They are trained experts and have been doing this for many years.

Dad: All because they are so-called experts doesn't mean they can ignore God's Word.

Flight Attendant: What does God's Word have to do with flying an airplane?

AV1611VET: I use my Boolean Standards to show that flying is against The Inerrant Word of God and The Documentation.

Flight Attendant: Are you talking about The Bible? Where does The Bible say that?

AV1611VET: "Thinking themselves to be wise they became fools."

Flight Attendant: What does that have to do with flying?

AV1611VET: Homo sapiens means "Wise Man,"; doesn't it? Since the flight crew are Wise Men they are really fools and God will show them they are fools by crashing the plane.

Flight Attendant: What???

Dad: How do these Ivory Tower so-called experts know they can fly this plane between here and the destination? What if the atmosphere between here and the destination is in a different state?

Flight Attendant: Different State?? What do you mean??

Dad: A different state. Like it was before "The Split."

Flight Attendant: What "Split?"

Dad: During the time of Peleg. To think differently, is anti-Bible hogwash and a fantasy!

Flight Attendant: What are you talking about?

Dad: You cannot prove that the space-time state between here and there is not different can you?

Flight Attendant: No, but we have never had any problem flying this route before..

Dad: Ha! You just ASSUME there is no difference now, because you assume the past is the key to the present. That is an Anti-God Lie, and thinking only within the box.. I refuse to accept it!!!

Flight Attendant Please, both of you take your seats!

AV1611VET: You just can't wait to ridicule me, even though I accept 95% of your "science!"

Dad: I just discovered that human flight is impossible! Amazing!!

Flight Attendant: Please, take your seats so we can take off! I promise it is safe!

AV1611VET: Oh yeah.. just like Thalidomide was a Wonder Drug before it was Plutoed!

Flight Attendant: Thalidomide?

AV1611VET: Sure, Thaldomide proves that your "science" changes with the flavor of the week!

Dad: Prove with your so called science that the state between here and there is the same! You can't!!!! Human flight is an anti-Bible lie! Amazing!

Flight Attendant: Get off this plane!!!

Could you speak to your staff about it, please?

 

[CatsRule2020]

An amazing meteorological phenomenon.

Ezekiel 1
King James Version

1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity,

3 The word of the Lord came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the Lord was there upon him.

4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.


Ezekiel's vision, like the one Jesus (Mt.3:16) and Stephen (Acts 7:56) and the Apostle John (Rev.4:1) each had, was seen only by them and none of the other people around them.

 

[SelfSim]

I am routinely perplexed by assessments of the ease of interstellar travel that base it upon current human technology, human lifespan and human perspectives.
...
We are already evaluating how to send miniature probes to nearby stars with light sails driven by lasers.
...
Humans have already contemplated interstellar voyages spread over centuries or millenia. It would be unreasonable to suppose aliens might not have the same thoughts, 20 millenia more technology and the intention to implement.

The thing is that the very 'alien life' we imagine as being 'out there', by necessity, is based on a (very) human perspective on what 'alien life' must be like.

It is therefore consistent to envisage interstellar travel from the perspective of the currently understood physics, within which human technologies are necessarily constrained. The data supporting expected functional lifespans of materials, (including: semi-conductor substrates/doping, sails, tethers, etc), in deep space operating environments at high velocities, is scarce. There is thus, considerable uncertainty in this area.

Projecting how aliens, more technologically advanced than ourselves, would design technologies, adds even more unconstrained uncertainties into the perspective. The conversation then becomes more about differing human perspectives, acquired from crystal ball gazing into futures, than being anchored in our reality of currently understood physics(?)

 

[angelsaroundme]

I believe humanity has never been alone in the universe. For me, the question is, are aliens separate from angels and demons. I'd like to believe aliens aren't all evil but I would initially be cautious around them. Many cultures around the world have had supernatural or mythical entities associated with flying or the sky, like the Fairy or Pari.

Curiously, according to Wikipedia, "Wings, while common in Victorian and later artworks, are rare in folklore; fairies flew by means of magic, sometimes perched on ragwort stems or the backs of birds." So it's possible the wings were suggestive of their ability to fly rather than them having literal wings. Fairies might then be more like aliens than we generally think.

This is interesting as well, "According to the Persian exegesis of the Qur'an Tafsir al-Tabari the paris are beautiful female spirits created by God after the vicious divs. They mostly believe in God and are benevolent to mankind. They are still part of some folklore and accordingly they appear to humans, sometimes punishing hunters in the mountains who are disrespectful or waste resources, or even abducting young humans for their social events. Encounters with paris are held to be physical as well as psychological."

The remark that the encounters are physical as well as psychological could imply they are on a different dimensional plane. Some believe aliens are interdimensional.

 

[Vap841]

I will send out a message over the internet for you. The aliens are so advanced they will locate and read this message.

*** Earth to Aliens ***

Please aliens, can you abduct Vap841.

He is so desperate to have a UFO incident.

For me, the question is, are aliens separate from angels and demons. I'd like to believe aliens aren't all evil but I would initially be cautious around them.

This is interesting as well, "According to the Persian exegesis of the Qur'an Tafsir al-Tabari the paris are beautiful female spirits created by God after the vicious divs. They mostly believe in God and are benevolent to mankind.

Well davidklute was nice enough to setup an alien abduction vacation for me so thanks for the tip, do you hear that Dave, please add a note that I am requesting the non-evil benevolent paris!

Encounters with paris are held to be physical as well as psychological.

Hey I get random drug testing at work so I’m gonna have to pass on any of their half physical half psychological magic dust.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I assume aliens exist. They might be watching us like we watch penguins in antarctica. They might be interfering in helpful ways. There might be different species of different visitors with different intentions.

It would be cool if the govt said one day "aliens exist, they have made contact, they want to give us good advice".

My personal thoughts are:
The universe is teeming with life.
I think people draw imaginary boundries between this material universe, heaven, hell, aliens and spiritual beings. There might not be any such boundry in reality.
I tend to think we are pretty low down if you measure by intelligence and ability to "see". Meaning we are probably surrounded by all sorts of life that we cannot perceive.
Kind of like a mouse perceiving a person. I'm sure if you tamed the mouse it might understand bit of your hands, your smell or other things, but it would never perceive you as another human would. It wouldn't understand you materially or philosophically.

There might not be much difference between aliens and angels in some cases (perhaps there are in other cases).
Space travel might be better done by humans by evolving spiritually into beings that can move their consciousness perhaps??
Perhaps more sense thinking you can move immaterial mind through space, rather than move a space ship much faster than the speed of light (???)

I dont know.

What does anyone else think about moving consciousness, being surrounded by spirits (angels etc), us being pretty low level beings??

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What Ezekiel saw has also been interpreted as a swarm of tornadoes or a display of solar haloes.

It's fairly open to interpretation, since they would be called hallucinations if seen today.

 

[Ophiolite]

What does anyone else think about moving consciousness, being surrounded by spirits (angels etc), us being pretty low level beings??

I think your ideas are interesting, in the sense that I'm intrigued that someone would develop such a world view with almost zero evidence for it. I don't see any harm in it and some positive aspects - for example it is implicitly humble. On the other hand I'd rather work towards a world view that had more of chance of reflecting reality. Please take this as an opinion offered in response to your question and not as a criticism.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

… .

I doubt you’d be any closer to reality than anyone else on the matter haha
Please don’t take that as a criticism haha ;-)

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

What does anyone else think about moving consciousness, being surrounded by spirits (angels etc), us being pretty low level beings??

All the evidence I've seen indicates that consciousness is a brain process, so it's not going anywhere without the brain - although it can certainly imagine itself to be anywhere at all.

There's no reliable evidence at all for spirits or angels, etc., so I would be very surprised if anything of that sort showed up.

Both suggestions also fall foul of fundamental physics (unless spirits & angels are names for physical, material beings), and if you're talking about things that could influence or interact with anything material, i.e. be detectable in any way, you're talking physics.

 

[Astrophile]

Some UFO sightings are as clear as day. How do you explain those sightings?

I wish they were. Most sightings of 'UFOs' are vague reports of lights in the sky, with hardly any indication of the brightness, angular size, shape or speed of the object, or of the duration of the sighting. When there is a detailed description, the UFO can usually be identified with certainty. For example, there was a report in autumn 1967 of policemen in England who pursued a 'flying cross' across a large area; it eventually turned out to be Venus.

It is interesting that amateur astronomers, who spend a lot of time watching the night sky and who know what can be seen there, hardly ever report UFOs; it is pilots and policemen and late-night drivers who see these phenomena.