Aliens?

[Ophiolite]

Despite all the conspiracy stories, I don't think we will ever find any real proof that alien life forms exist.

In our lifetimes, I agree, but if we don't blow ourselves up, turn the planet into a runaway greenhouse, or find some other way of destroying the planet, then we shall meet them out there one day, waiting for us - with a large sign that says No Transients, Beggars or Homo Sapiens.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Okay so you are saying that evil Angels could repent and be accepted by God again? Is such a repentance available to the devil himself now? I really don't think so. If it were, all the evil angels would repent in order to avoid their punishment.

I don't advocate that, you read too much into my post.

 

[Kylie]

Take a look at some of this evidence. Let me know your thoughts.

UFOs don't mean alien spaceships. I'd be happy to have a discussion with you about the evidence for alien life. If you want to, start a thread and send me the link to it, and I'll join in.

 

[friend of]

I don't advocate that, you read too much into my post.

You're the one who said that Angels are not static in their allegiances at this point in time. I am simply outlining how absurd your position is when taken to its logical conclusion. Every being in existence would do everything in its power to avoid the lake of fire. If you've ever read or heard about the book of Enoch, it was that group of fallen Angels that pleaded with Enoch to be an intermediary between them and God, to advocate a release from their eternal punishment. That punishment is set. There is no repentance for those angels. I.e. they cannot be accepted by God now. With this ultimate punishment in mind, no good angel would ever flip and become one of Satan's Angels, even if they were crazy and out of their mind.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You're the one who said that Angels are not static in their allegiances at this point in time. I am simply outlining how absurd your position is when taken to its logical conclusion. Every being in existence would do everything in its power to avoid the lake of fire. If you've ever read or heard about the book of Enoch, it was that group of fallen Angels that pleaded with Enoch to be an intermediary between them and God, to advocate a release from their eternal punishment. That punishment is set. There is no repentance for those angels. I.e. they cannot be accepted by God now. With this ultimate punishment in mind, no good angel would ever flip and become one of Satan's Angels, even if they were crazy and out of their mind.

It seems you don't need me here to have this conversation.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I voted "Don't Know", as how could any of us know? Which is to say, I don't believe aliens have ever visited us--there's no reason to believe they have*.

*A couple weeks ago I had what I would describe as my first "UFO" sighting. Which is to say, I saw something in the sky which I don't have a an explanation for yet. Because, and this is important kids, It's never aliens, until its aliens. It's not aliens until we know that it is, actually, in fact, indisputably and irrefutably that it is. Sometimes you see things that don't make sense, that's okay, just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean there isn't one. It's okay to not have all the answers.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[coffee4u]

What say you?

Interesting videos on the subject here.

Where is the option to vote demons?

 

[tampasteve]

ADMIN HAT ON

This thread is not about homosexuality or Pride month, etc. Posts have been cleaned. Please keep on topic.

ADMIN HAT OFF

 

[Ophiolite]

So, back on topic, some general thoughts:

• There clearly are some currently unexplained sightings in the sky. I've been taken by the new terminology of UAP, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon, rather than UFO. I suspect some of these do represent a hitherto unrecognised something, but I think it highly unlikely they are aliens.
• I do wish that some people would not conflate alien life with intelligent alien life. It may be exciting to do so, but it's fundamentally lazy.
• The OP seems to mean intelligent alien life. So, is there any? It would be remarkable if there is not. On the other hand we haven't cracked the mechanism of abiogenesis yet so we don't know if life is readily formed in a variety of environments, or if the Earth just got very, very unlikely.
  
• In that regard the Drake equation is a useful tool with which to contemplate the factors we need to understand the chances of alien life, but not yet ready (because of insufficient data) to yield a reliable answer.
• I completely reject the nay-sayers who say we could never be visited by alien spacefarers because of the distance between stars. There are all kinds of ways this could be overcome, withour resorting to warp drives and the like.
• While I don't think we are being visited at present it would be interesting to look for evidence or previous visits. How might those be detected. Would the aliens leave a nice black pillar as per 2001? Or something more subtle?

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

So, back on topic, some general thoughts:

• There clearly are some currently unexplained sightings in the sky. I've been taken by the new terminology of UAP, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon, rather than UFO. I suspect some of these do represent a hitherto unrecognised something, but I think it highly unlikely they are aliens.
• I do wish that some people would not conflate alien life with intelligent alien life. It may be exciting to do so, but it's fundamentally lazy.
• The OP seems to mean intelligent alien life. So, is there any? It would be remarkable if there is not. On the other hand we haven't cracked the mechanism of abiogenesis yet so we don't know if life is readily formed in a variety of environments, or if the Earth just got very, very unlikely.
  
• In that regard the Drake equation is a useful tool with which to contemplate the factors we need to understand the chances of alien life, but not yet ready (because of insufficient data) to yield a reliable answer.
• I completely reject the nay-sayers who say we could never be visited by alien spacefarers because of the distance between stars. There are all kinds of ways this could be overcome, withour resorting to warp drives and the like.
• While I don't think we are being visited at present it would be interesting to look for evidence or previous visits. How might those be detected. Would the aliens leave a nice black pillar as per 2001? Or something more subtle?

One niggle, why would any sufficiently powerful alien need to enter our atmosphere to gather data?

 

[jasperr]

I completely reject the nay-sayers who say we could never be visited by alien spacefarers because of the distance between stars. There are all kinds of ways this could be overcome, withour resorting to warp drives and the like

Could you give a few examples of ways you think that might be possible?

(as for looking for evidence of previous "visits" what about the redundant code that is apparently in DNA?

Might there be encrypted messages in them or would they mutate too much for that purpose?

Maybe the Arizona Auditors might be able to find something in the ballots? )

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

One niggle, why would any sufficiently powerful alien need to enter our atmosphere to gather data?

I smell an AWIMW (Aliens Work In Mysterious Ways) argument brewing...

 

[klutedavid]

So, back on topic, some general thoughts:

• There clearly are some currently unexplained sightings in the sky. I've been taken by the new terminology of UAP, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon, rather than UFO. I suspect some of these do represent a hitherto unrecognised something, but I think it highly unlikely they are aliens.
• I do wish that some people would not conflate alien life with intelligent alien life. It may be exciting to do so, but it's fundamentally lazy.
• The OP seems to mean intelligent alien life. So, is there any? It would be remarkable if there is not. On the other hand we haven't cracked the mechanism of abiogenesis yet so we don't know if life is readily formed in a variety of environments, or if the Earth just got very, very unlikely.
  
• In that regard the Drake equation is a useful tool with which to contemplate the factors we need to understand the chances of alien life, but not yet ready (because of insufficient data) to yield a reliable answer.
• I completely reject the nay-sayers who say we could never be visited by alien spacefarers because of the distance between stars. There are all kinds of ways this could be overcome, withour resorting to warp drives and the like.
• While I don't think we are being visited at present it would be interesting to look for evidence or previous visits. How might those be detected. Would the aliens leave a nice black pillar as per 2001? Or something more subtle?

I have four reasons why we would never see aliens from another star.

1) The cosmos is filled with radiation and any long journey through space would be hazardous.

2) If you travelled through space you would eventually collide with a meteorite.

3) Space ships are small and a long journey time would be difficult to endure.

4) Anyone on a space station for over a year suffers from muscle weakness and bone dystrophy.

 

[jasperr]

Would it any way feasible for an advanced civilisation to discover a suitable potentially life supporting planet that was too far to travel to and yet find a way to transport at relativistic speeds pairs of sperm/eggs (or however they manage recreation/procreation along with instructions concerning their senders?

Might there be some kind of a disposable capsule to protect its cargo from the dangers of the journey?

In this way might they find a way to colonize regions of the galaxy many light years distant and hang on to the acquisitions and cultural inheritance of their civilizatìon?

A very small cargo with a comparatively sturdy transport module might be able to travel much further and faster than a normal one .

 

[klutedavid]

Would it any way feasible for an advanced civilisation to discover a suitable potentially life supporting planet that was too far to travel to and yet find a way to transport at relativistic speeds pairs of sperm/eggs (or however they manage recreation/procreation along with instructions concerning their senders?

Might there be some kind of a disposable capsule to protect its cargo from the dangers of the journey?

In this way might they find a way to colonize regions of the galaxy many light years distant and hang on to the acquisitions and cultural inheritance of their civilizatìon?

A very small cargo with a comparatively sturdy transport module might be able to travel much further and faster than a normal one .

If they travelled to our nearest star, Alpha Centauri, it would take about 100 years. They could after they arrived send a transmission to us, and that would take over four years to reach us.

There is no way to protect the ship from meteorites which no doubt you would run into. Meteorites travel at speeds between 10 km and 70 km per second. That is extremely quick.

With our current technology it is simply not possible to overcome these hurdles.

 

[jasperr]

If they travelled to our nearest star, Alpha Centauri, it would take about 100 years. They could after they arrived send a transmission to us, and that would take over four years to reach us.

There is no way to protect the ship from meteorites which no doubt you would run into. Meteorites travel at speeds between 10 km and 70 km per second. That is extremely quick.

With our current technology it is simply not possible to overcome these hurdles.

That is not what I was asking.I realize my question may still be unrealistic but you have not addressed it at all.

 

[klutedavid]

That is not what I was asking.I realize my question may still be unrealistic but you have not addressed it at all.

A planet that could support life and have protection from radiation, would be a very rare planet. We not only have an atmosphere but abundant oceans also. Life thrives on this planet, as much as, hundreds of millions of species.

I doubt whether there would be many planets out there as hospitable to life as ours.

Obviously you could send an frozen, unborn fetus, to some distant star. But how would you know whether any planet could support life. The odds of finding a suitable planet might be a thousand to one, or even higher. A very remote possibility.

This is science fiction and way beyond our present knowledge. Ask me in another century.

 

[Ophiolite]

One niggle, why would any sufficiently powerful alien need to enter our atmosphere to gather data?

I'm slightly confused by your niggle, as I did not stipulate that the aliens would necessarily enter our atmosphere. In suggesting we might look for evidence of such a visit I was thinking in terms, for example remains of a lunar base for Earth observation, current remote sensing and transmission devices throughout the system, and so forth.

However, I don't limit an alien visit to data gathering. Resource exploitation and tourism are other possibilities, plus motives that are simply alien and do not occur to us. Moreover I'm not sure how orbital observation could reveal data on internal animal morphology, or microscopic rock details, etc.

 

[Yttrium]

Would it any way feasible for an advanced civilisation to discover a suitable potentially life supporting planet that was too far to travel to and yet find a way to transport at relativistic speeds pairs of sperm/eggs (or however they manage recreation/procreation along with instructions concerning their senders?

Might there be some kind of a disposable capsule to protect its cargo from the dangers of the journey?

In this way might they find a way to colonize regions of the galaxy many light years distant and hang on to the acquisitions and cultural inheritance of their civilizatìon?

A very small cargo with a comparatively sturdy transport module might be able to travel much further and faster than a normal one .

One way to do it might be with a lightsail. The sail is propelled by starlight. It would take a very, very long time to get to its destination, but it could eventually get up to relativistic speeds and travel great distances, then use starlight to slow down. The advantage is that it wouldn't need much fuel.

Hanging on to cultural heritage might be a problem though. You wouldn't want to put too much stuff in that capsule.

 

[Ophiolite]

I have four reasons why we would never see aliens from another star.

1) The cosmos is filled with radiation and any long journey through space would be hazardous.

2) If you travelled through space you would eventually collide with a meteorite.

3) Space ships are small and a long journey time would be difficult to endure.

4) Anyone on a space station for over a year suffers from muscle weakness and bone dystrophy.

In response to each point.
1. There should be no difficulty in providing appropriate shielding for an interstellar voyage.
2. Our present spacecraft are constantly colliding with micro-meteorites, but are designed to tolerate that. Very large meteorites could be detected early and avoided. Medium sized meteorites could be zapped by powerful lasers. Small meteorites could be absorbed in the body of the craft.
3. One would not attempt an interstellar voyage on a small ship. You seem to be thinking in terms of present day technology. I'm envisaging the technology available as the equivalent of Earth tech. in a couple of centuries, or four or five millenia from now.
4. This can be dealt with by one of genetic engineering, long term evolution of a sub-set of humans born and raised in space, medical intervention, or by rotating a portion of the craft to simulate gravity.

All of these are best dealt with by finding a suitable asteroid, burrowing into it to create living space and locations for all engines and equipment.

Of course, there are likely much more elegant methods available to aliens who are not a couple of millenia ahead of us, but twenty or thirty million years more advanced. Bottom line, I don't think your objections hold up.