Advice on finding an Orthodox wife?

[MariaJLM]

Yeah, I might not agree with JasonV in a lot of stuff but we see cases where Orthodox people marry non-Orthodox but the latter has to agree with raising the kids Orthodox.

Byzantine Catholic/Orthodox marriages are common among my parish's populace. I think because it's Ukrainians insisting on marrying other Ukrainians. It's not like the Orthodox marriage pool in Canada is massive.

 

[Zummi]

My mother was raised Roman Catholic, and my Father was Orthodox. When they married she stayed Catholic, until my little brother was born three years later. On the day of his baptism she surprised everybody in the family and was chrismated alongside him haha!

Relationships are serious things, despite what the modern secular culture says, and they take time. Even if the young lady is not Orthodox, talk to her, ask her to come to a liturgy etc.

 

[GoingByzantine]

Yeah, I might not agree with JasonV in a lot of stuff but we see cases where Orthodox people marry non-Orthodox but the latter has to agree with raising the kids Orthodox.

I seriously question how often the children really are reared Orthodox in situations like that. The kids might feel stuck between two worlds in my opinion, and have a weaker faith because of it. Not saying that will always happen, and there have been personal stories shared here that indicate the opposite, but the risk level seems very high to me. If the other half looks at Orthodoxy negatively, the risk might be even higher.

That's why marrying Orthodox is so important to me. I don't want my kids saying, "Daddy, why can't we go to Mama's church. They have a cool rock band and a coffee shop, and all the kids from school go there too." I want them to be involved in the liturgy and the holy mysteries of Orthodoxy.

 

[Not David]

I seriously question how often the children really are reared Orthodox in situations like that. The kids might feel stuck between two worlds in my opinion, and have a weaker faith because of it. Not saying that will always happen, and there have been personal stories shared here that indicate the opposite, but the risk level seems very high to me. If the other half looks at Orthodoxy negatively, the risk might be even higher.

That's why marrying Orthodox is so important to me. I don't want my kids saying, "Daddy, why can't we go to Mama's church. They have a cool rock band and a coffee shop, and all the kids from school go there too." I want them to be involved in the liturgy and the holy mysteries of Orthodoxy.

It sounds simple but unfortunately, there are not many Orthodox girls around here. However, I won't compromise, the girl has to be into Orthodoxy and want to raise the children Orthodox or I would end the relationship.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It sounds simple but unfortunately, there are not many Orthodox girls around here. However, I won't compromise, the girl has to be into Orthodoxy and want to raise the children Orthodox or I would end the relationship.

that actually happened to me. I had an Irish Catholic girlfriend and we broke up because neither of us would convert.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Plus I heard she was a fan of Lucas’s prequels...

that actually happened to me. I had an Irish Catholic girlfriend and we broke up because neither of us would convert.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Plus I heard she was a fan of Lucas’s prequels...

no, she had good taste in movies.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

One of my prerequisites for marriage—-
If you don’t like Yes, Rush, Asia, Toto, Steely Dan, and Boz.....keep walking lady!!

no, she had good taste in movies.

 

[GoingByzantine]

It sounds simple but unfortunately, there are not many Orthodox girls around here. However, I won't compromise, the girl has to be into Orthodoxy and want to raise the children Orthodox or I would end the relationship.

That's probably for the best! Sometimes people convert willingly, out of an interest in truth and a love for Christ - like the martyr Saint Elizabeth Fedorovna. I would be more than 100% ok marrying someone like that.

Other times mixed marriages work out, like Zummi reported in this thread, and the partner converts over time. Which is also awesome. If the partner is open-minded to Orthodoxy and needs time to accept it, I would be fine with that also.

Then there are instances in the history of our church where mixed marriages haven't worked out, or have created great tension in future generations. The Empress Theodora, who I need to be cautious talking about (since she technically is a saint) undermined her husband and spread monophysite beliefs throughout the Eastern Roman Empire and to places further afield like the kingdoms of Nubia, hence undermining the faith of the empire and her husband.

Then there is the story of Sayyidah al-‘Azīzah a Sicilian Orthodox woman who convinced her husband, the Egyptian Caliph Al-Aziz to treat Christians within the Caliphate well. He did just that, praise the lord, but the couple's son (al-Hakim) ended up despising his mother and his father's favoritism of her religion. When the boy came to power he ended up destroying the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, monasteries, churches and holy sites. He martyred countless Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Christians, including his uncle Arsenius, the Eastern Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria.

Extreme examples sure, but mixed faith relationships can get confusing both for the spouses involved and for the children of such unions. That's why I think you are wise about not wanting to compromise unless you are sure it is a good fit.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm all for both persons being Orthodox btw. I just think there are dangers in both expecting a spouse to convert in future, and conversions for the wrong reasons.

 

[RobNJ]

Boy, this scary thread is still going strong! *runs for the hills!*

 

[Andrei D]

Just a (maybe idiotic) thought: have you considered an extended pilgrimage to an Orthodox region of the world and that it might happen there?

 

[SingularityOne]

Just a (maybe idiotic) thought: have you considered an extended pilgrimage to an Orthodox region of the world and that it might happen there?

I have yet to think of where I would want to go on a pilgrimage to. Hopefully somewhere where English is somewhat used. Haha!

 

[Andrei D]

I have yet to think of where I would want to go on a pilgrimage to. Hopefully somewhere where English is somewhat used. Haha!

In many Eastern European countries English widely known, even cab drivers speak it

 

[SingularityOne]

In many Eastern European countries English widely known, even cab drivers speak it

Eastern Europe it is then, haha. What are some Eastern European countries that are predominantly Orthodox?

 

[GoingByzantine]

Eastern Europe it is then, haha. What are some Eastern European countries that are predominantly Orthodox?

Predominantly Orthodox would be Russia, Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria, Georgia, Serbia, Montenegro, N. Macedonia, Greece and Cyprus.

Sizeable minorities in the baltic states (latvia, estonia and lithuania), Albania, Poland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kazakhstan, Syria, Lebanon and Israel.

Even smaller minorities in places like the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Africa and Japan.

 

[SingularityOne]

Predominantly Orthodox would be Russia, Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria, Georgia, Serbia, Montenegro, N. Macedonia, Greece and Cyprus.

Sizeable minorities in the baltic states (latvia, estonia and lithuania), Poland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kazakhstan, Syria, Lebanon and Israel.

Even smaller minorities in places like the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Africa and Japan.

Thanks for this!

 

[MariaJLM]

I would go on a pilgrimage myself, primarily to visit monasteries, if I could afford travel expenses. The Orthodox experience is pretty lacking in Canada, especially when you're a convert from a family hostile towards faith and attend an ethnic parish to boot. Our feast days/holidays are always lonely for me now.

 

[GoingByzantine]

Thanks for this!

No problem.

A word of caution though. The "marriage industries" that are present in many of these countries are generally quite sleazy and exploitative of women. They take racy photos of young women (and sometimes men) in revealing outfits and suggestive postures to entice a secular Western audience to go on excursions and spend money with them. The majority of Western men who engage with marriage agencies and dating websites in these countries are older (60+) and non-Orthodox. They go to Orthodox countries because they want trophy wives who are young, attractive and subservient. It's quite disgusting in many instances. There are also women who scam men via these agencies, convincing them to "buy letters" and send gifts.

Not all men are like this who go abroad, but that is the general stereotype. There are definitely "good" people who go abroad also, and are not interested in exploiting women.

Most women in these places are genuinely looking for a partner, based on what I have read. The European and Asian members of our forum might be able to provide better first hand insights.

From what I have seen, the largest cohort of women who are looking to get married are from Ukraine. This makes sense, given the ongoing strife in the country. There are also quite a few Belorussian and Russian women looking, but their reasons for looking abroad are less about strife and more about there being a gender imbalance in their countries/regions. There are also quite a few people from the Holy Land who are trying to escape the war and conflict there. Overall there seem to be a lot of decent people out there who are just trying to settle down, have families and live a good life. I don't blame them. It's too bad they are so far away, and airfare from the U.S. is extremely expensive.

 

[Andrei D]

Yeah, I agree with the GoingByzantine. If you end up considering this, you'll have to arms yourself with a lot of circumspection. Typically, assume everyone is trying to scam you from the second you set foot in the airport, because they do, starting with that English speaking cab driver I told you about.

But if you have a trustworthy contact and avoid nightclubs etc, you should be fine.

More, other than the creepy guys GoingByzantine speaks of, there are also essentially decent men who come on humanitarian missions and leave with wives, but they typically are also proselytizing for an American protestant church or another which makes lots of people uncomfortable. As an Orthodox American you'd be a superstar